Chilling picture shows female Isil fighter holding child moments before detonating suicide vest

Sick and twisted.

How can we ever hope to reason with people that not only want to kill us, but are quite happy to kill their own? It's barbaric

Miffs2 wrote:How can we ever hope to reason with people that not only want to kill us, but are quite happy to kill their own?  It's barbaric

Exactly that.

Thorin wrote:At first sight the picture appears to show a mother cradling her young child as she flees an Islamic State-held area of Mosul. But a closer look reveals she is holding a trigger., which she will pull seconds later. 


Woman holding detonator in Mosul blows herself up along with a small child moments after the picture was taken.  CREDIT: AL-MAWSLEYA TV


An Iraqi TV station captured the moment before a suspected female Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) suicide bomber blew herself - and the baby - up near Iraqi troops. She had apparently tried to detonate an explosives vest hidden under her hijab as she passed the soldiers, but it failed to go off until she had walked some distance away, a cameraman for al-Mawsleya TV said.




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/08/chilling-picture-shows-female-isil-fighter-holding-child-moments/





Which just goes to show how brainwashing religion is. That it can make a mother believe its the best thing to do is blow herself and her baby up and murder people at the same time. Its called Martyrdom. Which has to be just about the most sickest concept ever going.

It's not the fault of the religion. The woman had a mind of her own, and she chose to attempt to murder others, and she murdered her own child.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:At first sight the picture appears to show a mother cradling her young child as she flees an Islamic State-held area of Mosul. But a closer look reveals she is holding a trigger., which she will pull seconds later. 


Woman holding detonator in Mosul blows herself up along with a small child moments after the picture was taken.  CREDIT: AL-MAWSLEYA TV


An Iraqi TV station captured the moment before a suspected female Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) suicide bomber blew herself - and the baby - up near Iraqi troops. She had apparently tried to detonate an explosives vest hidden under her hijab as she passed the soldiers, but it failed to go off until she had walked some distance away, a cameraman for al-Mawsleya TV said.




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/08/chilling-picture-shows-female-isil-fighter-holding-child-moments/





Which just goes to show how brainwashing religion is. That it can make a mother believe its the best thing to do is blow herself and her baby up and murder people at the same time. Its called Martyrdom. Which has to be just about the most sickest concept ever going.

It's not the fault of the religion. The woman had a mind of her own, and she chose to attempt to murder others, and she murdered her own child.

I think you are very mistaken, as martyrdom allows believers to think they can get a free ticket into their make belief heaven. Now others may well argue that Islam does not allow for terrorism. Well they may say this but others do not agree and get their beliefs from the same religious works in Islam as everyone else. The main problem with Islam is that it can be interpreted in many ways. Making the case even more so its man made. The quran is claimed to be perfect and complete. This clearly shows it is not.

Please listen to this as it describe very well what ISIS followers actually believe. Here you have parts from ISIS's very own newsletter

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's not the fault of the religion. The woman had a mind of her own, and she chose to attempt to murder others, and she murdered her own child.

I think you are very mistaken, as martyrdom allows believers to think they can get a free ticket into their make belief heaven. Now others may well argue that Islam does not allow for terrorism. Well they may this but others do not agree and get their beliefs from the same religious works in Islam as everyone else.

Please listen to this as it describe very well what ISIS followers actually believe. Here you have parts from ISIS's very own newsletter

It was still her own choice. She knew she was going to try to kill others. The Bible says a lot of things too, but followers can still decide if they think it's reasonable or not. It's just a good thing that she didn't manage to kill bystanders. Hopefully, she realised that she had failed in the split second the bomb detonated.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


I think you are very mistaken, as martyrdom allows believers to think they can get a free ticket into their make belief heaven. Now others may well argue that Islam does not allow for terrorism. Well they may this but others do not agree and get their beliefs from the same religious works in Islam as everyone else.

Please listen to this as it describe very well what ISIS followers actually believe. Here you have parts from ISIS's very own newsletter

It was still her own choice. She knew she was going to try to kill others. The Bible says a lot of things too, but followers can still decide if they think it's reasonable or not. It's just a good thing that she didn't manage to kill bystanders. Hopefully, she realised that she had failed in the split second the bomb detonated.

Yes but she fundamentally believes she is dying for Allah and will actually look forward to doing this and believing her baby also is going to a better place. You fail to understand how they truly believe that what they are doing is righteous and justified based on religious text. ISIS continually tell the world how and where they get their beliefs and ideas from. Which is from Islam.

Rags, please listen to the audio as you hear about a mother who lost their child and thinks this is great.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It was still her own choice. She knew she was going to try to kill others. The Bible says a lot of things too, but followers can still decide if they think it's reasonable or not. It's just a good thing that she didn't manage to kill bystanders. Hopefully, she realised that she had failed in the split second the bomb detonated.

Yes but she fundamentally believes she is dying for Allah and will actually look forward to doing this and believing her baby also is going to a better place. You fail to understand how they truly believe that what they are doing is righteous and justified based on religious text. ISIS continually tell the world how and where they get their beliefs and ideas from. Which is from Islam.

Rags, please listen to the audio as you hear about a mother who lost their child and thinks this is great.

Well then they're very stupid people. Who in their right mind would think that God would want people to commit murder? If they want to believe what other humans tell them, they're even more stupid. The answer is to take them out before they can murder anyone - like the IRA.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Yes but she fundamentally believes she is dying for Allah and will actually look forward to doing this and believing her baby also is going to a better place. You fail to understand how they truly believe that what they are doing is righteous and justified based on religious text. ISIS continually tell the world how and where they get their beliefs and ideas from. Which is from Islam.

Rags, please listen to the audio as you hear about a mother who lost their child and thinks this is great.

Well then they're very stupid people. Who in their right mind would think that God would want people to commit murder? If they want to believe what other humans tell them, they're even more stupid. The answer is to take them out before they can murder anyone - like the IRA.

Seriously Rags this is what religion can do when it brainwashes people. Its not just religion of course as we have seen the same with things like the Hitler Youth. I mean if you listen from around the 11 minute mark, this woman praises Allah that her son has been martyred. She actually thinks its a good thing he has been killed and looks forward to both her husband and herself being martyred,and to them be rejoining him. They basically are taught to believe this life has zero relevance and its all about getting to the next life. Where again the one full proof way taught is through martyrdom, where all sins are basically forgiven. What you have is a reality where people are led by fear of a hell fire and will actually believe butchering people, enslaving girls ect is righteous. Where they normalize this as being just and right based on these beliefs. This is not something new either and has gone on for centuries. Even in the past with Christianity, they use to claim crusaders who were martyred in the cause would have all their sins forgiven.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well then they're very stupid people. Who in their right mind would think that God would want people to commit murder? If they want to believe what other humans tell them, they're even more stupid. The answer is to take them out before they can murder anyone - like the IRA.

Seriously Rags this is what religion can do when it brainwashes people. Its not just religion of course as we have seen the same with things like the Hitler Youth. I mean if you listen from around the 11 minute mark, this woman praises Allah that her son has been martyred. She actually thinks its a good thing he has been killed and looks forward to both her husband and herself being martyred,and to them be rejoining him. They basically are taught to believe this life has zero relevance and its all about getting to the next life. Where again the one full proof way taught is through martyrdom, where all sins are basically forgiven. What you have is a reality where people are led by fear of a hell fire and will actually believe butchering people, enslaving girls ect is righteous. This is not something new either and has gone on for centuries. Even in the past with Christianity, they use to claim crusaders who were martyred in the cause would have all their sins forgiven.

I don't believe in brainwashing. If all Muslims believed the same thing, they'd all be going around trying to kill people, and they're not.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Seriously Rags this is what religion can do when it brainwashes people. Its not just religion of course as we have seen the same with things like the Hitler Youth. I mean if you listen from around the 11 minute mark, this woman praises Allah that her son has been martyred. She actually thinks its a good thing he has been killed and looks forward to both her husband and herself being martyred,and to them be rejoining him. They basically are taught to believe this life has zero relevance and its all about getting to the next life. Where again the one full proof way taught is through martyrdom, where all sins are basically forgiven. What you have is a reality where people are led by fear of a hell fire and will actually believe butchering people, enslaving girls ect is righteous. This is not something new either and has gone on for centuries. Even in the past with Christianity, they use to claim crusaders who were martyred in the cause would have all their sins forgiven.

I don't believe in brainwashing. If all Muslims believed the same thing, they'd all be going around trying to kill people, and they're not.

But not everyone is to the point where they would willingly throw away their life. many Muslims are peaceful and take a different view point from within the religion. So it clearly is brainwashing people to believe something is going to be far better if they do many wrong things. Which to them are not wrong but righteous and just. Its been going on for thousands of years because people are so scared of these stories they believe around hell. They will literally do anything to avoid this. Like I say these religions are designed to control people and when you have a group like ISIS which has such control. It can make its followers do anything.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't believe in brainwashing. If all Muslims believed the same thing, they'd all be going around trying to kill people, and they're not.

But not everyone is to the point where they would willingly throw away their life. many Muslims are peaceful and take a different view point from within the religion. So it clearly is brainwashing people to believe something is going to be far better if they do many wrong things. Which to them are not wrong but righteous and just. Its been going on for thousands of years because people are so scared of these stories they believe around hell. They will literally do anything to avoid this. Like I say these religions are designed to control people and when you have a group like ISIS which has such control. It can make its followers do anything.

If it was the religion, all Muslims would be going around killing others though. These people believe what they want to believe. They clearly have no life that they want, so they think their purpose is get revenge and to die, and another person confirming that just gives them the incentive to do it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


But not everyone is to the point where they would willingly throw away their life. many Muslims are peaceful and take a different view point from within the religion. So it clearly is brainwashing people to believe something is going to be far better if they do many wrong things. Which to them are not wrong but righteous and just. Its been going on for thousands of years because people are so scared of these stories they believe around hell. They will literally do anything to avoid this. Like I say these religions are designed to control people and when you have a group like ISIS which has such control. It can make its followers do anything.

If it was the religion, all Muslims would be going around killing others though. These people believe what they want to believe. They clearly have no life that they want, so they think their purpose is get revenge and to die, and another person confirming that just gives them the incentive to do it.

No they would not, because not all religious people are brainwashed or believe it is righteous to murder people. For example, you yourself are selective over what you believe in Christianity within the bible. Like many Christians today they have become more so secular. Many Muslims are literal believers, but do not believe it is right or just to murder people. Groups like ISIS believe it is and uses Islamic doctrine to argue that it does. They are not getting this from any other sources but the same works that all other Muslims follow. So this is the problem with religious ideologies, where one group can form different view to others but it stems fundamentally from the religious text

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

If it was the religion, all Muslims would be going around killing others though. These people believe what they want to believe. They clearly have no life that they want, so they think their purpose is get revenge and to die, and another person confirming that just gives them the incentive to do it.

No they would not, because not all religious people are brainwashed or believe it is righteous to murder people. For example, you yourself are selective over what you believe in Christianity within the bible. Like many Christians today they have become more so secular. Many Muslims are literal believers, but do not believe it is right or just to murder people. Groups like ISIS believe it is and uses Islamic doctrine to argue that it does. They are not getting this from any other sources but the same works that all other Muslims follow. So this is the problem with religious ideologies, where one group can form different view to others but it stems fundamentally from the religious text

Well then it's not the fault of the religion is it? These people are murderers, they want to do it, and they're just looking for a reason to do it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

No they would not, because not all religious people are brainwashed or believe it is righteous to murder people. For example, you yourself are selective over what you believe in Christianity within the bible. Like many Christians today they have become more so secular. Many Muslims are literal believers, but do not believe it is right or just to murder people. Groups like ISIS believe it is and uses Islamic doctrine to argue that it does. They are not getting this from any other sources but the same works that all other Muslims follow. So this is the problem with religious ideologies, where one group can form different view to others but it stems fundamentally from the religious text

Well then it's not the fault of the religion is it? These people are murderers, they want to do it, and they're just looking for a reason to do it.

Of course the religion is at fault Rags. When the Crusaders took Jerusalem, they used Deuteronomy as a justification for the whole say butchering of the citizens.

Again if you listen to the audio you will see that these people who are ISIS supporters are normal people who have come to believe very different beliefs, which all stem from Islam. I mean this woman states its a blessing that her son has been Martyred. She thinks about what his life would have been like if they had not moved to the caliphate and then thinks its better that he died. It takes religious indoctrination to believe that. You do not see non-religious people thinks its a blessing that their children are killed, when they are perfectly healthy. So there is your proof it fundamentally comes from religious beliefs or ideological belief systems, that make people believe its a good thing when they are throw away their lives. 

Have you ever heard of Rev Jim Jones?

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well then it's not the fault of the religion is it? These people are murderers, they want to do it, and they're just looking for a reason to do it.

Of course the religion is at fault Rags. When the Crusaders took Jerusalem, they used Deuteronomy as a justification for the whole say butchering of the citizens.

Again if you listen to the audio you will see that these people who are ISIS supporters are normal people who have come to believe very different beliefs, which all stem from Islam. I mean this woman states its a blessing that her son has been Martyred. She thinks about what his life would have been like if they had not moved to the caliphate and then thinks its better that he died. It takes religious indoctrination to believe that. You do not see non-religious people thinks its a blessing that their children are killed, when they are perfectly healthy. So there is your proof it fundamentally comes from religious beliefs or ideological belief systems, that make people believe its a good thing when they are throw away their lives. 

Have you ever heard of Rev Jim Jones?

As an justification? Exactly, and that's what these people are doing. They're bitter individuals, or they have grandiose ideas, and they're using any excuse to murder others. They have no life themselves, so they don't want others to have a life.

Re Jim Jones, those people chose to take their own lives.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Of course the religion is at fault Rags. When the Crusaders took Jerusalem, they used Deuteronomy as a justification for the whole say butchering of the citizens.

Again if you listen to the audio you will see that these people who are ISIS supporters are normal people who have come to believe very different beliefs, which all stem from Islam. I mean this woman states its a blessing that her son has been Martyred. She thinks about what his life would have been like if they had not moved to the caliphate and then thinks its better that he died. It takes religious indoctrination to believe that. You do not see non-religious people thinks its a blessing that their children are killed, when they are perfectly healthy. So there is your proof it fundamentally comes from religious beliefs or ideological belief systems, that make people believe its a good thing when they are throw away their lives. 

Have you ever heard of Rev Jim Jones?

As an justification? Exactly, and that's what these people are doing. They're bitter individuals, or they have grandiose ideas, and they're using any excuse to murder others. They have no life themselves, so they don't want others to have a life.

Re Jim Jones, those people chose to take their own lives.

So why would people chose to take their own lives?
Where would they get the idea to do so in regards to say Japanese Kamikaze?
Islamic suicide Bombers?
Why would a mother believe its normal to think its great her son has died and its a blessing?
Are you claiming the thoughts just popped into their heads, or were they learnt from ideological beliefs?

So you tell me Rags, because your arguments holds no water here

I mean why not have ISIS just continued to kill each other until none of them is left Rags? If as you claim they have no life themselves and do not want others to have a life? I mean why not has all then ISIS followers committed mass suicide at once? Surely based on your premise they would mass kill each other until none where left?

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

As an justification? Exactly, and that's what these people are doing. They're bitter individuals, or they have grandiose ideas, and they're using any excuse to murder others. They have no life themselves, so they don't want others to have a life.

Re Jim Jones, those people chose to take their own lives.

So why would people chose to take their own lives?
Where would they get the idea to do so in regards to say Japanese Kamikaze?
Islamic suicide Bombers?
Why would a mother believe its normal to think its great her son has died and its a blessing?
Are you claiming the thoughts just popped into their heads, or were they learnt from ideological beliefs?

So you tell me Rags, because your arguments holds no water here

They chose to take their own lives because they thought others were trying to make them give up their chosen way of life.

It's more cultural. An Islamic suicide bomber is pissed off about perceived mistreatment of Muslims, and a kamikaze pilot thinks that the best way to kill people is with a plane, but they need to be piloting the plane.

I don't think your argument holds water - you're excusing these people on the grounds that they've been "brainwashed", and are therefore not responsible for their own actions.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


So why would people chose to take their own lives?
Where would they get the idea to do so in regards to say Japanese Kamikaze?
Islamic suicide Bombers?
Why would a mother believe its normal to think its great her son has died and its a blessing?
Are you claiming the thoughts just popped into their heads, or were they learnt from ideological beliefs?

So you tell me Rags, because your arguments holds no water here

They chose to take their own lives because they thought others were trying to make them give up their chosen way of life.

Thorin wrote:Are they rags? As that is not what ISIS supporters are saying themselves. They believe the secular western world is evil and a society ruled by what they see as perfect Islam is the best way they can live their lives

It's more cultural. An Islamic suicide bomber is pissed off about perceived mistreatment of Muslims, and a kamikaze pilot thinks that the best way to kill people is with a plane, but they need to be piloting the plane.

Thorin wrote:Well Kamikaze stems from Bushido, which again is religious and even if you do not think so its still an ideological belief system. Many Muslims are pissed off at the perceived treatments of other Muslims and yet many use religious text on transgressions as a just means to commit acts of violence in retaliation. I mean many other nations have had people suffer the loss of life in conflicts. So where is all the terrorism from the Vietnamese?
The Serbians?
The Koreans?
The Malaysians?

I don't think your argument holds water - you're excusing these people on the grounds that they've been "brainwashed", and are therefore not responsible for their own actions.

They have been brainwashed as i am easily proving. As why do people come to see they were wrong and understand that they were brainwashed? History is littered with this. From the Hitler Youth and many of the German populace that were brainwashed to believe and normalize hating Jews. Do you think they hated the Jews based off your view they had no life or themselves? Is that what Germans had, no life for themselves rags back then? Why is it that view has changed?

You see it is fundamentally down to beliefs

and this is exactly why those daesh wives should never be let back into the UK

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:At first sight the picture appears to show a mother cradling her young child as she flees an Islamic State-held area of Mosul. But a closer look reveals she is holding a trigger., which she will pull seconds later. 


Woman holding detonator in Mosul blows herself up along with a small child moments after the picture was taken.  CREDIT: AL-MAWSLEYA TV


An Iraqi TV station captured the moment before a suspected female Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) suicide bomber blew herself - and the baby - up near Iraqi troops. She had apparently tried to detonate an explosives vest hidden under her hijab as she passed the soldiers, but it failed to go off until she had walked some distance away, a cameraman for al-Mawsleya TV said.




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/08/chilling-picture-shows-female-isil-fighter-holding-child-moments/





Which just goes to show how brainwashing religion is. That it can make a mother believe its the best thing to do is blow herself and her baby up and murder people at the same time. Its called Martyrdom. Which has to be just about the most sickest concept ever going.

It's not the fault of the religion. The woman had a mind of her own, and she chose to attempt to murder others, and she murdered her own child.

she did it because her religion said it was right for her to do it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Seriously Rags this is what religion can do when it brainwashes people. Its not just religion of course as we have seen the same with things like the Hitler Youth. I mean if you listen from around the 11 minute mark, this woman praises Allah that her son has been martyred. She actually thinks its a good thing he has been killed and looks forward to both her husband and herself being martyred,and to them be rejoining him. They basically are taught to believe this life has zero relevance and its all about getting to the next life. Where again the one full proof way taught is through martyrdom, where all sins are basically forgiven. What you have is a reality where people are led by fear of a hell fire and will actually believe butchering people, enslaving girls ect is righteous. This is not something new either and has gone on for centuries. Even in the past with Christianity, they use to claim crusaders who were martyred in the cause would have all their sins forgiven.

I don't believe in brainwashing. If all Muslims believed the same thing, they'd all be going around trying to kill people, and they're not.

large numbers of them think exactly that. They may not do it themselves but they admire those that do.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


But not everyone is to the point where they would willingly throw away their life. many Muslims are peaceful and take a different view point from within the religion. So it clearly is brainwashing people to believe something is going to be far better if they do many wrong things. Which to them are not wrong but righteous and just. Its been going on for thousands of years because people are so scared of these stories they believe around hell. They will literally do anything to avoid this. Like I say these religions are designed to control people and when you have a group like ISIS which has such control. It can make its followers do anything.

If it was the religion, all Muslims would be going around killing others though. These people believe what they want to believe. They clearly have no life that they want, so they think their purpose is get revenge and to die, and another person confirming that just gives them the incentive to do it.

why do you think there are a million or more dead Muslims in iraq. they weren't all killed by the west.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Of course the religion is at fault Rags. When the Crusaders took Jerusalem, they used Deuteronomy as a justification for the whole say butchering of the citizens.

Again if you listen to the audio you will see that these people who are ISIS supporters are normal people who have come to believe very different beliefs, which all stem from Islam. I mean this woman states its a blessing that her son has been Martyred. She thinks about what his life would have been like if they had not moved to the caliphate and then thinks its better that he died. It takes religious indoctrination to believe that. You do not see non-religious people thinks its a blessing that their children are killed, when they are perfectly healthy. So there is your proof it fundamentally comes from religious beliefs or ideological belief systems, that make people believe its a good thing when they are throw away their lives. 

Have you ever heard of Rev Jim Jones?

As an justification? Exactly, and that's what these people are doing. They're bitter individuals, or they have grandiose ideas, and they're using any excuse to murder others. They have no life themselves, so they don't want others to have a life.

Re Jim Jones, those people chose to take their own lives.

they think they are the chosen people.

the only people Muslims like killing more than westerners are other Muslims. they have been killing each other for 1400 years since Muhammed died.

It's a turf war more than a religion.

The Devil, You Know wrote:It's a turf war more than a religion.

Gd point.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's not the fault of the religion. The woman had a mind of her own, and she chose to attempt to murder others, and she murdered her own child.

she did it because her religion said it was right for her to do it.

Really? What religion is that and where does it say to kill innocent people?

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't believe in brainwashing. If all Muslims believed the same thing, they'd all be going around trying to kill people, and they're not.

large numbers of them think exactly that. They may not do it themselves but they admire those that do.

And yet you live amongst Muslims? In their land?

Oh the fucking irony here! Lolol

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Yes but she fundamentally believes she is dying for Allah and will actually look forward to doing this and believing her baby also is going to a better place. You fail to understand how they truly believe that what they are doing is righteous and justified based on religious text. ISIS continually tell the world how and where they get their beliefs and ideas from. Which is from Islam.

Rags, please listen to the audio as you hear about a mother who lost their child and thinks this is great.

Well then they're very stupid people. Who in their right mind would think that God would want people to commit murder? If they want to believe what other humans tell them, they're even more stupid. The answer is to take them out before they can murder anyone - like the IRA.

Exactly

SEXY MAMA wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
she did it because her religion said it was right for her to do it.

Really? What religion is that and where does it say to kill innocent people?

Within the Quran, hadith, ect

Innocent homosexuals killed
Innocent people who leave Islam (apostasy)
Innocent people that are critical of Islam (blasphemy)
Ect, ect
Of course Islam does not view them as innocent

Thorin wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:


Really? What religion is that and where does it say to kill innocent people?

Within the Quran, hadith, ect

Innocent homosexuals killed
Innocent people who leave Islam (apostasy)
Innocent people that are critical of Islam (blasphemy)
Ect, ect
Of course Islam does not view them as innocent

Why do you have to butt in when I wasn't asking you? I told you before many times on here I don't wish to respond to you yet you keep butting in.

This is why I don't 'debate' with you because you have no idea about my religion.

Yet here you are arguing with a Muslim when you don't have a sodding clue about Islam.

Where does it state in the Quran anything about killing gays?

It actually doesn't.

People that critise Islam? Seriously? Lol Where does it say to kill them?

People who leave Islam?

No verse in the Quran states that!

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Within the Quran, hadith, ect

Innocent homosexuals killed
Innocent people who leave Islam (apostasy)
Innocent people that are critical of Islam (blasphemy)
Ect, ect
Of course Islam does not view them as innocent

Why do you have to butt in when I wasn't asking you? I told you before many times on here I don't wish to respond to you yet you keep butting in.

This is why I don't 'debate' with you because you have no idea about my religion.

Yet here you are arguing with a Muslim when you don't have a sodding clue about Islam.

Where does it state in the Quran anything about killing gays?

It actually doesn't.

People that critise Islam? Seriously? Lol Where does it say to kill them?

People who leave Islam?

No verse in the Quran states that!

I thought this was a debate forum is it not?

Seems you struggle to read as well, as I stated Quran, hadith, etc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_blasphemy

So this is what is wrong with poor apologists, because for centuries people have been executed for leaving Islam.

In the west they are often ostracized by their families and the Muslim community

You see its not just about the Quran as they also deify Muhammad through the hadiths

Thorin wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Why do you have to butt in when I wasn't asking you? I told you before many times on here I don't wish to respond to you yet you keep butting in.

This is why I don't 'debate' with you because you have no idea about my religion.

Yet here you are arguing with a Muslim when you don't have a sodding clue about Islam.

Where does it state in the Quran anything about killing gays?

It actually doesn't.

People that critise Islam? Seriously? Lol Where does it say to kill them?

People who leave Islam?

No verse in the Quran states that!

I thought this was a debate forum is it not?

Seems you struggle to read as well, as I stated Quran, hadith, etc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_blasphemy

So this is what is wrong with poor apologists, because for centuries people have been executed for leaving Islam.

In the west they are often ostracized by their families and the Muslim community

You see its not just about the Quran as they also deify Muhammad through the hadiths

Wikipedia! Lolololol

I asked you where it states in the Quran?

As I said don't argue with a Muslim over the Quran.

Cause I have studied it and you have no clue about it at all!

I rest my case.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Thorin wrote:


I thought this was a debate forum is it not?

Seems you struggle to read as well, as I stated Quran, hadith, etc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_blasphemy

So this is what is wrong with poor apologists, because for centuries people have been executed for leaving Islam.

In the west they are often ostracized by their families and the Muslim community

You see its not just about the Quran as they also deify Muhammad through the hadiths

Wikipedia!  Lolololol

I asked you where it states in the Quran?

As I said don't argue with a Muslim over the Quran.

Cause I have studied it and you have no clue about it at all!

I rest my case.

Well if you bothered to read them it shows you.

Are you saying the hadiths are now irrelevant and you speak for all islam?

You see the problem with Islam is that there is no central figure head

So all these countries where Blasphemy, homosexuality and Apostasy is punishable by death due to Islamic doctrine, you ignore. Which is odd. You are a minority view on what Islam teaches, the majority back the view that the above is punishable via death.

I mean this is even more backed up by how you reply. Where you are aggressive which is taught in Islam and taught that Non-Muslims are inferior.

Thorin wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Wikipedia!  Lolololol

I asked you where it states in the Quran?

As I said don't argue with a Muslim over the Quran.

Cause I have studied it and you have no clue about it at all!

I rest my case.

Well if you bothered to read them it shows you.

Are you saying the hadiths are now irrelevant and you speak for all islam?

You see the problem with Islam is that there is no central figure head

So all these countries where Blasphemy, homosexuality and Apostasy is punishable by death due to Islamic doctrine, you ignore. Which is odd. You are a minority view on what Islam teaches, the majority back the view that the above is punishable via death.

I mean this is even more backed up by how you reply. Where you are aggressive which is taught in Islam and taught that Non-Muslims are inferior.

I did read it and again it doesn't show anything from the Quran about KILLING GAYS OR LEAVING ISLAM as you INCORRECTLY stated

Of course you are INFERIOR to me in my knowledge about Islam! That's a bloody given!

Are you now stating you have more knowledge than me about the Quran? You have studied it in Arabic and know it all?

PMSL

NOW get lost and don't respond to me cause I'm waiting on the other Moron to respond to his false accusations.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Well if you bothered to read them it shows you.

Are you saying the hadiths are now irrelevant and you speak for all islam?

You see the problem with Islam is that there is no central figure head

So all these countries where Blasphemy, homosexuality and Apostasy is punishable by death due to Islamic doctrine, you ignore. Which is odd. You are a minority view on what Islam teaches, the majority back the view that the above is punishable via death.

I mean this is even more backed up by how you reply. Where you are aggressive which is taught in Islam and taught that Non-Muslims are inferior.

I did read it and again it doesn't show anything from the Quran about KILLING GAYS OR LEAVING ISLAM  as you INCORRECTLY stated

Of course you are INFERIOR to me in my knowledge about Islam! That's a bloody given!

Are you now stating you have more knowledge than me about the Quran? You have studied it in Arabic and know it all?

PMSL

NOW get lost and don't respond to me cause I'm waiting on the other Moron to respond to his false accusations.

 
A fine example of the intolerance Islam teaches

So again you are ignoring the hadiths.

So there you go Sexy has just argued there is no reason to have punishments for Apostacy, Blasphemy, etc, yet for some reason the majority of the worlds Muslims disagree with her

Funny that

Yet there base the view its punishable by death on Islamic text.

Thorin wrote:A Pew Research Center survey of the world’s Muslims released earlier this week had many interesting findings. The Daily Caller reviewed the survey and pulled out some of the most fascinating — and sometimes alarming — tidbits:


1.) A majority of Muslims in several countries think adulterers and apostates should be put to death 


According to the poll, 86 percent of Muslims in Pakistan, 84 percent in Afghanistan, 81 percent in the Palestinian territories, 80 percent in Egypt, 65 percent in Jordan, 57 percent in Iraq and 54 percent in Malaysia and Bangladesh favor stoning as a lethal punishment for adultery.


A majority of Muslims in several countries also support the death penalty for Muslims who convert away from Islam, including in Afghanistan (79 percent), Egypt (88 percent), Pakistan (75 percent), the Palestinian territories (62 percent), Jordan (83 percent) and Malaysia (58 percent).


http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/01/nine-things-youll-learn-from-pews-poll-of-the-worlds-Muslims/

A SURVEY??????

Seriously!

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Thorin wrote:A Pew Research Center survey of the world’s Muslims released earlier this week had many interesting findings. The Daily Caller reviewed the survey and pulled out some of the most fascinating — and sometimes alarming — tidbits:


1.) A majority of Muslims in several countries think adulterers and apostates should be put to death 


According to the poll, 86 percent of Muslims in Pakistan, 84 percent in Afghanistan, 81 percent in the Palestinian territories, 80 percent in Egypt, 65 percent in Jordan, 57 percent in Iraq and 54 percent in Malaysia and Bangladesh favor stoning as a lethal punishment for adultery.


A majority of Muslims in several countries also support the death penalty for Muslims who convert away from Islam, including in Afghanistan (79 percent), Egypt (88 percent), Pakistan (75 percent), the Palestinian territories (62 percent), Jordan (83 percent) and Malaysia (58 percent).


http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/01/nine-things-youll-learn-from-pews-poll-of-the-worlds-Muslims/

A SURVEY??????

Seriously!

Yes seriously, are you claiming its a lie now?

Like I say a prime example of Ostrich Parasitic syndrome

Thorin wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

I did read it and again it doesn't show anything from the Quran about KILLING GAYS OR LEAVING ISLAM  as you INCORRECTLY stated

Of course you are INFERIOR to me in my knowledge about Islam! That's a bloody given!

Are you now stating you have more knowledge than me about the Quran? You have studied it in Arabic and know it all?

PMSL

NOW get lost and don't respond to me cause I'm waiting on the other Moron to respond to his false accusations.

 
A fine example of the intolerance Islam teaches

So again you are ignoring the hadiths.

So there you go Sexy has just argued there is no reason to have punishments for Apostacy, Blasphemy, etc, yet for some reason the majority of the worlds Muslims disagree with her

Funny that

I'll ask you again

You stated it says to kill gay people in the Quran

It doesn't

And yet you are still arguing with me

You then also stated it says to kill people who leave Islam

It doesn't

You have shown no proof yet you still keep on insisting it does.

As you now doing flaps dirty work for him I'll show you the proof of what it does say.

Islamic scholars say the original rulings on apostasy were similar to those for treasonous acts in legal systems worldwide and do not apply to an individual’s choice of religion. Islam advocates both freedom of religion and freedom of conscience, a position supported by verses in the Quran, Islam’s revealed text, such as:

“If it had been the will of your Lord that all the people of the world should be believers, all the people of the earth would have believed! Would you then compel mankind against their will to believe?” (10:99)

“(O Prophet Muhammad) proclaim: ‘This is the Truth from your Lord. Now let him who will, believe in it, and him who will, deny it.’” (18:29)
“If they turn away from thee (O Muhammad) they should know that We have not sent you to be their keeper. Your only duty is to convey My message.” (42:48)

“Let there be no compulsion in religion.” (2:256)

Religious decisions should be matters of personal choice, not a cause for state intervention. Faith imposed by force is not true belief, but coercion. Islam has no need to compel belief in its divine truth. As the Quran states: “Truth stands out clear from error. Therefore, whoever rejects evil and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold that never breaks.” (2:256)

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Thorin wrote:
 
A fine example of the intolerance Islam teaches

So again you are ignoring the hadiths.

So there you go Sexy has just argued there is no reason to have punishments for Apostacy, Blasphemy, etc, yet for some reason the majority of the worlds Muslims disagree with her

Funny that

I'll ask you again

Thorin wrote:
You need to go to specsavers
As I said the following
Within the Quran, hadith, ect

Innocent homosexuals killed
Innocent people who leave Islam (apostasy)
Innocent people that are critical of Islam (blasphemy)
Ect, ect
Of course Islam does not view them as innocent

It doesn't

Thorin wrote:So the hadiths do not count to you then?

And yet you are still arguing with me


You then also stated it says to kill people who leave Islam

It doesn't

You have shown no proof yet you still keep on insisting it does.

As you now doing flaps dirty work for him I'll show you the proof of what it does say.

More examples of the intolerance taught in Islam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_blasphemy


Then explain to me why in many Muslim countries the punishment for the above is death?

If that is what the qaean says
Why do Muslim terrorists believe they are doing Allah's will?
Why do Muslim countries execute gays and oppress women?
Because they say it's their religious duty! And that is a pretty fucked up point of view.
Until we educate these people what will change?

Miffs2 wrote:If that is what the qaean says
Why do Muslim terrorists believe they are doing Allah's will?
Why do Muslim countries execute gays and oppress women?
Because they say it's their religious duty! And that is a pretty fucked up point of view.
Until we educate these people what will change?

Luckily there is now some progressive Muslim groups looking to bring about change, but they have an uphill struggle. One of the biggest problems in Islam, is how they deify deeds of Muhammad through the hadiths as if they are Sura's from Allah. Where its taught that Muslims  should emulate Muhammad. So straight away you have a problem with the hadiths. The problem is when people literally believe and as seen above, they are in denial to these problems.

Thorin wrote:

Miffs2 wrote:If that is what the qaean says
Why do Muslim terrorists believe they are doing Allah's will?
Why do Muslim countries execute gays and oppress women?
Because they say it's their religious duty! And that is a pretty fucked up point of view.
Until we educate these people what will change?

Luckily there is now some progressive Muslim groups looking to bring about change, but they have an uphill struggle. One of the biggest problems in Islam, is how they deify deeds of Muhammad through the hadiths as if they are Sura's from Allah. Where its taught that Muslims  should emulate Muhammad. So straight away you have a problem with the hadiths. The problem is when people literally believe and as seen above, they are in denial to these problems.

Denial - you are right.
Anyhoo, off to work, see you later

Miffs2 wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Luckily there is now some progressive Muslim groups looking to bring about change, but they have an uphill struggle. One of the biggest problems in Islam, is how they deify deeds of Muhammad through the hadiths as if they are Sura's from Allah. Where its taught that Muslims  should emulate Muhammad. So straight away you have a problem with the hadiths. The problem is when people literally believe and as seen above, they are in denial to these problems.

Denial - you are right.
Anyhoo, off to work,  see you later

Have a good day Nems

See you later

Your armchair pyhschology is pathetic.

As I've always said to you Smelly, if this is an Islam thing then the vast majority of Muslims are not practicing their faith.

For some real psychology, read links like:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-therapy/201009/understanding-the-suicide-bomber

"Third, episodes of brutality and backwardness have periodically visited every religion and ethnicity. The ‘mentality' explanation is also the seed of all racism--Jews, for example, were said over millennia to have a seedy, greedy mentality--and also the seed of despair, since ‘mentality' is innate and unchangeable."

---

Which makes you a hypocrite as well as a twat.

I had to interrupt fucking your mother for this. My back is already hurting from digging that bitch up.