Would you kill the Baby Hitler?

First topic message reminder :

Rules of the game:

You enter a time machine that can only take you to one time and place:

Date: 21th April 1889
Place: Home of Klara Hitler, Austria.

The time machine will take you back to your present time by midnight.

You have 24 hours to save 6 million Jews and stop World War II.

Would you kill baby Hitler at 1 day old?

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Rules of the game:

You enter a time machine that can only take you to one time and place:

Date: 21th April 1889
Place: Home of Klara Hitler, Austria.

The time machine will take you back to your present time by midnight.

You have 24 hours to save 6 million Jews and stop World War II.

Would you kill baby Hitler at 1 day old?

who say killing hitler would have stopped the germans killing the jews. It could be argued that having hitler in command made the allies campaigns easier to win.

If Dick killed Hitler, Stormee, Allakaka and Tom Sawyer would want revenge.

Angry Andy wrote:If Dick killed Hitler, Stormee, Allakaka and Tom Sawyer would want revenge.

You know when you go out and about and meet new people? Do you tell those new friends about how wicked all these forum-people-you-don't-know, are?
Do you spread the word?

Absolutely, Eds. But only the nasty ones.
I still post on some very decent ones.

Angry Andy wrote:Absolutely, Eds. But only the nasty ones.
I still post on some very decent ones.

Wow. I bet you're a blast at parties! I bet people really care about a small-time forum and your hatred of its owner.
How thrilling.

@zack,

are you not "humanising" the question I asked you a while back, (and which I note you failed to satisfactorarily answer, since you invoked a circular argument)?

that being, why god being all knowing and all seeing makes a soul...KNOWING (because god is omniscient) that it WILL sin (and this in itself does not presuppose "predestinatination", since that sould doesnt know what god knows, and is unable to comprehend such), and then proceeds to fry FOR ETERNITY, that soul which never ever stood a chance , since god KNEW it would never change?

this implies a number of things

one, god (of the abrahamic kind at least) is NOT omniscient , since the soul "could" surprise him
or
two, god is a kid with an ant farm (and cruel and heartless to boot)
or
three, god is playing a game, pretending he doesnt know (only of course to himself) which is kinda pityful really and indicates god has become well bored
or
four god doesnt exist

given that boredom, cruelty, heartlessness are human characteristics, incompatible with a "fully competant" mind (which is implicit in the omniscient, omnipotent claims for god), since such a mind would be dispassionate in the extreme.
Given that a NEED for worship is a human characteristic (and not one of the better I must say)
and
Given that not being omniscient is NOT an acceptable characteristic of the abrahamic god, indeed the whole concept would likely crumble upon the failure of that characteristic

I vote that option four is the only tenable position.


given that, the consequenceless destruction of the baby hitler can pose no real moral dilemma, since it involves only the invoking of the greater good. provided that such a required death could be acomplished humanely, without suffering (since we are about the "removal" of a creature NOT its premature punishment) than I find no great problem.....

further the problem could probably be answered simply by kidnapping said "baby hitler" and placing him somewhere far away, in a different home and educational environment..

Eilzel wrote:Veya, Australians are basically Europeans whose ancestors left their native land, willingly or not. Your ancestors stole that land too. Your ancestors treated the natives like shit until fairly recently. Do not maintain a delusion that Australians and western Europeans are all that different. We are not. Well, perhaps Australians are slightly more conservative but that's it.

Your aggression against what you like to call the old world is self-righteous and meaningless. You have a larger landmass by fortune of colonialism working in your favour. Your nation is as guilty as mine where Empire is concerned.

And let's not ignore the fact you tried to praise 19th century France while criticising the UK. As if France was not part of the land grabbing of that era or treated it's colonial subjects differently somehow.

australia has a very progressive take on illegal immigration though

HoratioTarr wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:would any of you go back and kill Mohammed as he has been responsible for around 300million deaths or more in the last 1400 years. hitler was a rank amateur compared to him.

You could say the same about God, or man's interpretation of Him.

you could , but we are talking about someone who actually existed, not some voices in a mentally ill persons head.

Eilzel wrote:Veya, Australians are basically Europeans whose ancestors left their native land, willingly or not. Your ancestors stole that land too. Your ancestors treated the natives like shit until fairly recently. Do not maintain a delusion that Australians and western Europeans are all that different. We are not. Well, perhaps Australians are slightly more conservative but that's it.

Your aggression against what you like to call the old world is self-righteous and meaningless. You have a larger landmass by fortune of colonialism working in your favour. Your nation is as guilty as mine where Empire is concerned.

And let's not ignore the fact you tried to praise 19th century France while criticising the UK. As if France was not part of the land grabbing of that era or treated it's colonial subjects differently somehow.

Under the British lash and to export resources for British wealth. So If anything that give us right to condemn the British that idealize Colonialism. Sure We were once equal in blame but that is why TODAY we condemn it totally without exception. yet what do Brits do today
Try and make out like they did the world a favor!!!!! abhorrent they way British Propaganda has twisted fact, So your point just makes it fair to blame those today that wish to idealize the evils of yesteryear, no different than praising the Nazi or any other genocidal invaders.

And My points are unaddressed What exactly good did Britain do?
copy Australia in the universal vote, follow Australia in giving women the vote?
Most of these Democratic and secular values we now hold are thanks to the Australia(or USA) not Britain, the UK copied the new world, they were not exported here.

Praise to the french peoples(not parliament) and condemn the British Redcoat that like a Mindless servant fought to uphold the aristocracy and oppression of the everyman..
Clearly neither are perfect but which is worse is also clear as day
France did initially fee slaves too but the invasion of British into french territory creating the need of financial funds made them change the law back particularly in the Louisiana territory. again we see the barbarous British stand in the way of humanities progress.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Veya, Australians are basically Europeans whose ancestors left their native land, willingly or not. Your ancestors stole that land too. Your ancestors treated the natives like shit until fairly recently. Do not maintain a delusion that Australians and western Europeans are all that different. We are not. Well, perhaps Australians are slightly more conservative but that's it.

Your aggression against what you like to call the old world is self-righteous and meaningless. You have a larger landmass by fortune of colonialism working in your favour. Your nation is as guilty as mine where Empire is concerned.

And let's not ignore the fact you tried to praise 19th century France while criticising the UK. As if France was not part of the land grabbing of that era or treated it's colonial subjects differently somehow.

australia has a very progressive take on illegal immigration though

Even today we see the evil from britain (tony abbott) that implement such policies
The truth it is simply too many racist Anglo Right wingers like yourself here

veya_victaous wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Veya, Australians are basically Europeans whose ancestors left their native land, willingly or not. Your ancestors stole that land too. Your ancestors treated the natives like shit until fairly recently. Do not maintain a delusion that Australians and western Europeans are all that different. We are not. Well, perhaps Australians are slightly more conservative but that's it.

Your aggression against what you like to call the old world is self-righteous and meaningless. You have a larger landmass by fortune of colonialism working in your favour. Your nation is as guilty as mine where Empire is concerned.

And let's not ignore the fact you tried to praise 19th century France while criticising the UK. As if France was not part of the land grabbing of that era or treated it's colonial subjects differently somehow.

Under the British lash and to export resources for British wealth. So If anything that give us right to condemn the British that idealize Colonialism. Sure We were once equal in blame but that is why TODAY we condemn it totally without exception. yet what do Brits do today
Try and make out like they did the world a favor!!!!! abhorrent they way British Propaganda has twisted fact, So your point just makes it fair to blame those today that wish to idealize the evils of yesteryear, no different than praising the Nazi or any other genocidal invaders.

And My points are unaddressed What exactly good did Britain do?
copy Australia in the universal vote, follow Australia in giving women the vote?
Most of these Democratic and secular values we now hold are thanks to the Australia(or USA) not Britain, the UK copied the new world, they were not exported here.

Praise to the french peoples(not parliament) and condemn the British Redcoat that like a Mindless servant fought to uphold the aristocracy and oppression of the everyman..
Clearly neither are perfect but which is worse is also clear as day
France did initially fee slaves too but the invasion of British into french territory creating the need of financial funds made them change the law back particularly in the Louisiana territory. again we see the barbarous British stand in the way of humanities progress.  

What good did they do?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_legal_systems

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system

Nobody is denying the money exploited and robbed throughout the expansion of the British Empire, but there is no doubt also that the British also helped bring many nations forward with political systems, education, legal system, infrastructure (even though was created to again exploit) and many other aspects. It was not all bad as some poorly seem to think it was.

veya_victaous wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
australia has a very progressive take on illegal immigration though

Even today we see the evil from britain (tony abbott) that implement such policies
The truth it is simply too many racist Anglo Right wingers like yourself here

hasn't there been a change of government since that was implemented?

australia is quite rightly supporting legal immigrants over illegal ones.

veya_victaous wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Veya, Australians are basically Europeans whose ancestors left their native land, willingly or not. Your ancestors stole that land too. Your ancestors treated the natives like shit until fairly recently. Do not maintain a delusion that Australians and western Europeans are all that different. We are not. Well, perhaps Australians are slightly more conservative but that's it.

Your aggression against what you like to call the old world is self-righteous and meaningless. You have a larger landmass by fortune of colonialism working in your favour. Your nation is as guilty as mine where Empire is concerned.

And let's not ignore the fact you tried to praise 19th century France while criticising the UK. As if France was not part of the land grabbing of that era or treated it's colonial subjects differently somehow.

Under the British lash and to export resources for British wealth. So If anything that give us right to condemn the British that idealize Colonialism. Sure We were once equal in blame but that is why TODAY we condemn it totally without exception. yet what do Brits do today
Try and make out like they did the world a favor!!!!! abhorrent they way British Propaganda has twisted fact, So your point just makes it fair to blame those today that wish to idealize the evils of yesteryear, no different than praising the Nazi or any other genocidal invaders.

And My points are unaddressed What exactly good did Britain do?
copy Australia in the universal vote, follow Australia in giving women the vote?
Most of these Democratic and secular values we now hold are thanks to the Australia(or USA) not Britain, the UK copied the new world, they were not exported here.

Praise to the french peoples(not parliament) and condemn the British Redcoat that like a Mindless servant fought to uphold the aristocracy and oppression of the everyman..
Clearly neither are perfect but which is worse is also clear as day
France did initially fee slaves too but the invasion of British into french territory creating the need of financial funds made them change the law back particularly in the Louisiana territory. again we see the barbarous British stand in the way of humanities progress.  

people really hate Britain abolishing the slave trade, apart from in the arab world

The Devil, You Know wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:



Under the British lash and to export resources for British wealth. So If anything that give us right to condemn the British that idealize Colonialism. Sure We were once equal in blame but that is why TODAY we condemn it totally without exception. yet what do Brits do today
Try and make out like they did the world a favor!!!!! abhorrent they way British Propaganda has twisted fact, So your point just makes it fair to blame those today that wish to idealize the evils of yesteryear, no different than praising the Nazi or any other genocidal invaders.

And My points are unaddressed What exactly good did Britain do?
copy Australia in the universal vote, follow Australia in giving women the vote?
Most of these Democratic and secular values we now hold are thanks to the Australia(or USA) not Britain, the UK copied the new world, they were not exported here.

Praise to the french peoples(not parliament) and condemn the British Redcoat that like a Mindless servant fought to uphold the aristocracy and oppression of the everyman..
Clearly neither are perfect but which is worse is also clear as day
France did initially fee slaves too but the invasion of British into french territory creating the need of financial funds made them change the law back particularly in the Louisiana territory. again we see the barbarous British stand in the way of humanities progress.  

people really hate Britain abolishing the slave trade, apart from in the arab world

Yes, I bet all those Jolly Jack Tars who served and died on the West Africa Station fulfilling Wilberforce's vision really hated themselves, too.

But did it? I mean we still had Chain gangs of unpaid laborers cutting rocks and collecting resources for the British Aristocracy even though slavery was supposed to be ended before the Colony of NSW was started...

Is the reality that rather than capturing slaves from other nations they simple turned their own poverty stricken people into slaves to send across the seas in chains? a man shackled working without compensation for a rich overlord, all much of a muchness

FUCK ME ,still bringing up what our forefathers did. Change the fcuking record.

@ Lord Foul

One of the points was to humanise a decision God may take. And then see, what logical (and therefore, dispassionate) decision you, as a human (with compassion) would make?

I can't speak for all Abrahamic religions as there are major philosophical differences between them, especially when it comes to free will.

Yes, Islam does have the concept of an all knowing and all powerful God. What you may find even more confusing (just as the earliest Muslims did), Muslims do not have absolute freewill.

Free will only belongs to Allah. What humans (from an Islamic perspective) have is limited choice, given the circumstances God was put you under. And you will be judged accordingly to those choices.

Yes, Allah knows what choice you'll make. But Allah did not force your choice. Furthermore, that choice will be judged according to the circumstance Allah put you under.

For example in Islam, the bigger sinner is the rich man whom steals from the poor. And not the poor man who steals from the rich.

God has the power to (if he's made a judgement), to give the rich man his comeuppance while he's still living. Or, let him continue to be rich and if he doesn't make the right choices, he'll get his comeuppance in hell.

God allowing babies to mature into an evil adult, gives others the oppurtunity to be good. God is not playing a game but he is testing all of us and what choices we make.

Allah is compasionate to those who ask for his mercy and makes righteousness choices.

Note: I've mentioned Allah above, when I'm speaking from an Islamic context only.

PS. Sorry if I've missed something. But as I said to Didge a while back, I have a hard time reading long posts. Dyslexia is a bitch.

Sorry about the poor English above but you get my point, I hope.

Nothing wrong with that post Zack, except I don't believe there is a god.
But if that's what you do believe it's your choice.

OK zack...I sorta get what you are saying....but why "test us"...when he already knows the result of that test???

THATS what leaves me cold.....

Oh and dont worry about your english Zack.....your posts always make clear sense....

The Devil, You Know wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:


Under the British lash and to export resources for British wealth. So If anything that give us right to condemn the British that idealize Colonialism. Sure We were once equal in blame but that is why TODAY we condemn it totally without exception. yet what do Brits do today
Try and make out like they did the world a favor!!!!! abhorrent they way British Propaganda has twisted fact, So your point just makes it fair to blame those today that wish to idealize the evils of yesteryear, no different than praising the Nazi or any other genocidal invaders.

And My points are unaddressed What exactly good did Britain do?
copy Australia in the universal vote, follow Australia in giving women the vote?
Most of these Democratic and secular values we now hold are thanks to the Australia(or USA) not Britain, the UK copied the new world, they were not exported here.

Praise to the french peoples(not parliament) and condemn the British Redcoat that like a Mindless servant fought to uphold the aristocracy and oppression of the everyman..
Clearly neither are perfect but which is worse is also clear as day
France did initially fee slaves too but the invasion of British into french territory creating the need of financial funds made them change the law back particularly in the Louisiana territory. again we see the barbarous British stand in the way of humanities progress.  

people really hate Britain abolishing the slave trade, apart from in the arab world

Britain never "abolished" the slave trade...

They only wound it back..

There are still over 20 million people in the world living as slaves.
With just over 10% of those tied up in the "sex slave" trade..

And no, DYKbrain, it isn't just Muslim slave traders -- there are also irreligious Asians, sub-Saharan Africans, and North Americans involved in there, as well as Euro' criminal gangs.

And then there's another couple of hundred million people trapped in abject poverty, indentured labour, and other forms of forced labour...

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
people really hate Britain abolishing the slave trade, apart from in the arab world

Britain never "abolished" the slave trade...

They only wound it back..

There are still over 20 million people in the world living as slaves.
With just over 10% of those tied up in the "sex slave" trade..

And no, DYKbrain, it isn't just Muslim slave traders --  there are also irreligious Asians, sub-Saharan Africans, and North Americans involved in there, as well as Euro' criminal gangs.

And then there's another couple of hundred million people trapped in abject poverty, indentured labour, and other forms of forced labour...

No they did abolish the slave trade and in practice tried to stop the practice with other nations as they basically ruled the  seas.

So its you coming out with what again is revisionist history

Lord Foul wrote:OK zack...I sorta get what you are saying....but why "test us"...when he already knows the result of that test???

THATS what leaves me cold.....

Becuase the test determines the difference between "saying who you are" and "knowing who you are". And if your belief is based on action or just words.

After the year I've had (almost went bankrupt), I thought my faith was shakey. But the test is about making the right decisions under very bad circumstances and still not losing "who you say are".

Nobody said life wasn't a bitch.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:OK zack...I sorta get what you are saying....but why "test us"...when he already knows the result of that test???

THATS what leaves me cold.....

Becuase the test determines the difference between "saying who you are" and "knowing who you are". And if your belief is based on action or just words.

After the year I've had (almost went bankrupt), I thought my faith was shakey. But the test is about making the right decisions under very bad circumstances and still not losing "who you say are".

Nobody said life wasn't a bitch.

Still makes no sense to test when they have limited free will.

Its quite appalling actually and like Lord Foul said this kind of deity would be a kid with an ant farm (and cruel and heartless to boot).

The problem always falls down to fear and control as to why people believe or need to believe in my view.

What the followers of Abrahamic faiths never ask themselves is why would they follow such a cruel and vengeful god, as the it certainly is, by what is written. Its meant to be all knowing and of supreme intelligence. Something so intelligent would never be ruled by human emotions. It would know that emotions cloud making the correct or rational decisions. As it would ceased to have supreme intelligence if effected by emotions.

Its again believers trying to explain their deities found within their faiths. When what they should ask themselves is how to live their own lives free from controls. Which they place in front of themselves through religious beliefs.

OK...so the "test" is for our own personal enlightenment??

right...


so why then fry those who fail? After all god already as said knows the outcome....
why issue infinite punishments for what can only be finite sins??

There's no answer to that Vic.

Thorin wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


Britain never "abolished" the slave trade...

They only wound it back..

There are still over 20 million people in the world living as slaves.
With just over 10% of those tied up in the "sex slave" trade..

And no, DYKbrain, it isn't just Muslim slave traders --  there are also irreligious Asians, sub-Saharan Africans, and North Americans involved in there, as well as Euro' criminal gangs.

And then there's another couple of hundred million people trapped in abject poverty, indentured labour, and other forms of forced labour...

No they did abolish the slave trade and in practice tried to stop the practice with other nations as they basically ruled the  seas.

So its you coming out with what again is revisionist history

You and DYKbrain are the "revisionists" here, oh Doddery one...

You two can keep on repeating your lies as often as you like..

The sad fact remains that the Slave Trade, and international trafficking of said slaves,  is still going on across the globe..

Dream on with your false colonialist lies -- Reality is a far different place to the crappola that you and DYKnose are attempting to spread on here..

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Thorin wrote:

No they did abolish the slave trade and in practice tried to stop the practice with other nations as they basically ruled the  seas.

So its you coming out with what again is revisionist history

You and DYKbrain are the "revisionists" here, oh Doddery one...

You two can keep on repeating your lies as often as you like..

The sad fact remains that the Slave Trade, and international trafficking of said slaves,  is still going on across the globe..

Dream on with your false colonialist lies --  Reality is a far different place to the crappola that you and DYKnose are attempting to spread on here..

1) No response to my facts

2) No response to my facts

3) Where did I claim it was not?

4) So what is these colonialist lies you speak of? Considering I am half Irish. Of which the Irish has had far more wrongs done to them by the English than any other nation, far more than Africans by centuries. So why would I lie about slavery, considering i have studied history?

I would not, the British did end the Slave trade and actively sought to stop other nations doing so. How you cannot even recognise that and then try to deny it. Says everything that is wrong with some ungrateful Aussies. Who are blessed by being descended and to have brought British culture to Australia.

Sounds more like sour grapes to me

Lord Foul wrote:OK...so the "test" is for our own personal enlightenment??

right...


so why then fry those who fail? After all god already as said knows the outcome....
why issue infinite punishments for what can only be finite sins??

Well, God being omniscient knows who you are and who you'll be.

God knows the outcome of your life, but the choices were yours. And everyone take responsibility for their own choice.

Our would you like to see a legal system where I don't take responsibility for my choice to drive drunk? For example.

How can people be responsible when their life is already predestined by an all knowing deity?

It ceases to be a choice, as its then predetermined.

Thorin wrote:How can people be responsible when their life is already predestined by an all knowing deity?

It ceases to be a choice, as its then predetermined.

Read earlier posts. I'm not repeating myself.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Thorin wrote:How can people be responsible when their life is already predestined by an all knowing deity?

It ceases to be a choice, as its then predetermined.

Read earlier posts. I'm not repeating myself.

Well your reasons would still make this Gods doing, as its predetermined. So best you come up with something better than you have. As seen your reasons point to a fixed path.

How can a person decide, when its already planned out what will happen?

That is not even limited Free will, its no Free will.

The only way it would not be predetermined, is if everyone had a mass of different possible alternative outcomes to their future. That nothing was set in stone. This God could not fully know what you would decide to do.
It would then cease to be all knowing.

I would add you did not really answer Lord Fouls questions based on finite sins Zack.

That I would be more interested to see how you justify eternal punishment.



Since this debate has diverged, I am going to start another thread on this.

So the Baby Hitler aspect of the thread can continue

Maybe the posts on God can be merged to the new topic?

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t20955-infinite-punishment-for-finite-sins#400983

Thorin wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Read earlier posts. I'm not repeating myself.

Well your reasons would still make this Gods doing, as its predetermined. So best you come up with something better than you have. As seen your reasons point to a fixed path.

How can a person decide, when its already planned out what will happen?

That is not even limited Free will, its no Free will.

The only way it would not be predetermined, is if everyone had a mass of different possible alternative outcomes to their future. That nothing was set in stone. This God could not fully know what you would decide to do.
It would then cease to be all knowing.

I can tell by the words you're still using above, that you've either not read my post or didn't understand it.

What did I say about free will and judgement?

Lord Foul assumed time in hell is infinite.

I don't believe that.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Well your reasons would still make this Gods doing, as its predetermined. So best you come up with something better than you have. As seen your reasons point to a fixed path.

How can a person decide, when its already planned out what will happen?

That is not even limited Free will, its no Free will.

The only way it would not be predetermined, is if everyone had a mass of different possible alternative outcomes to their future. That nothing was set in stone. This God could not fully know what you would decide to do.
It would then cease to be all knowing.

I can tell by the words you're still using above, that you've either not read my post or didn't understand it.

What did I say about free will and judgement?

What a copout

I understand fully and hence why you keep making poor excuses to avoid my points

You said it was limited Free will, which makes next to no difference

Which I have shown would make the following based on an all knowing god

So again

Well your reasons would still make this Gods doing, as its predetermined. So best you come up with something better than you have. As seen your reasons point to a fixed path.

How can a person decide, when its already planned out what will happen?

That is not even limited Free will, its no Free will.

The only way it would not be predetermined, is if everyone had a mass of different possible alternative outcomes to their future. That nothing was set in stone. This God could not fully know what you would decide to do.
It would then cease to be all knowing.

Surely freewill means freewill? Assuming I'm going along with the notion of a deity, how can he know our outcome if we have freewill?

eddie wrote:Surely freewill means freewill? Assuming I'm going along with the notion of a deity, how can he know our outcome if we have freewill?

Exactly Eddie, it could not be even limited Free will (whatever that is), no matter how much Zack puts a spin on this. If the deity is all knowing and knows in advance what will happen. It is then predetermined and that means there is no choice. As this has already been decided before its even happened. It would mean that person if given the scenario a trillion times over. Would always make the same decision every time. Based on the predetermined outcome set in stone by the concept of an all knowing God.

That is not Free Will or even a choice. In fact its worse, the deity is misleading the person to believe they are making a choice, when they never had a choice in the first place. They will always chose what is predetermined through the concept of an all knowing deity.

Thorin wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


You and DYKbrain are the "revisionists" here, oh Doddery one...

You two can keep on repeating your lies as often as you like..

The sad fact remains that the Slave Trade, and international trafficking of said slaves,  is still going on across the globe..

Dream on with your false colonialist lies --  Reality is a far different place to the crappola that you and DYKnose are attempting to spread on here..

1) No response to my facts

2) No response to my facts

3) Where did I claim it was not?

4) So what is these colonialist lies you speak of? Considering I am half Irish. Of which the Irish has had far more wrongs done to them by the English than any other nation, far more than Africans by centuries. So why would I lie about slavery, considering i have studied history?

I would not, the British did end the Slave trade and actively sought to stop other nations doing so. How you cannot even recognise that and then try to deny it. Says everything that is wrong with some ungrateful Aussies. Who are blessed by being descended and to have brought British culture to Australia.

Sounds more like sour grapes to me

Easy to see when you're losing the argument, doddery Thorin...

Claiming that Britain achieved things that never happened...

Years after you claim they "abolished" the slave trade, the British government wreas still running slave gangs of non-criminal/non-political prisoners in Canada, their Caribbean territories, around Africa, over here in NSW and Qld -- there are records and photographic evidence of the Brit's maintaining chain gangs of non-criminal natives forced to work for British enerprises..

Aborigines in NSW, Islanders on Qld cane fields;
First peoples in Canada;
Mineworkers in African countries under British rule..

Meanwhile, back home Britain didn't even trust their good little wimmin' folk to have the vote until three years after those filthy commies in Russia and China.

You're the one with the "revisionist" lies on here, Thorin..

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Thorin wrote:


1) No response to my facts

2) No response to my facts

3) Where did I claim it was not?

4) So what is these colonialist lies you speak of? Considering I am half Irish. Of which the Irish has had far more wrongs done to them by the English than any other nation, far more than Africans by centuries. So why would I lie about slavery, considering i have studied history?

I would not, the British did end the Slave trade and actively sought to stop other nations doing so. How you cannot even recognise that and then try to deny it. Says everything that is wrong with some ungrateful Aussies. Who are blessed by being descended and to have brought British culture to Australia.

Sounds more like sour grapes to me

Easy to see when you're losing the argument, doddery Thorin...

Claiming that Britain achieved things that never happened...

Years  after you claim they "abolished" the slave trade, the British government wreas still running slave gangs of non-criminal/non-political prisoners in Canada, their Caribbean territories, around Africa, over here in NSW and Qld -- there are records and photographic evidence of the Brit's maintaining chain gangs of non-criminal natives forced to work for British enerprises..

Aborigines in NSW, Islanders on Qld cane fields;
First peoples in Canada;
Mineworkers in African countries under British rule..

Meanwhile, back home Britain didn't even trust their good little wimmin' folk to have the vote until three years after those filthy commies in Russia and China.

You're the one with the "revisionist" lies on here,  Thorin..

1) More deflections

2) As seen I proved they did, you legal system and Government system is based on the British system

3) Gibberish and again revisionist history. If there are records, why is it you cannot prove this? No sanction British Government slavery happened after it was abolished. So claiming something based on no evidence is absurd. There is no doubt some Brits broke the law and still profiled in the slave trade, but it was abolished in 1807 and then the colonies in 1834.

4) So you now aspire Slavery under the Australians to the British, now that is revisionist history. Seriously when are you Aussies going to take responsibility for your own crimes?

The Australian sugar industry - today worth $2 billion in exports - was built quite literally off the backs of their blood, sweat and tears yet few know the suffering and atrocities that occurred 150 years ago.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2013-09-27/sugar-slaves-black-chapter-in-agricultural-history/4985102


First people would have been before the slave trade ended in canada.

Where in Africa?

5) What has that got to do with the price of bread

Try again