"I am a Muslim and proud but enough is enough"

by eddie Wed May 24, 2017 10:26 pm

This is going viral. It's a great post and I'm happy to share it:

I'm a Muslim and proud to be one but I think it's time as Muslims we fix this bullshit problem we have. Yes we do have a problem with our community & so called 'Muslim' brothers. Whatever is going on it's time we stop blaming others, stop being the 'victims' & blaming the west. We need to fix this epidemic of inbreds from doing these despicable crimes. Sorry I don't care if you think I'm being harsh. Islam is a beautiful religion BUT these uneducated monkeys misinterpret things & feel they are acting on Gods behalf & it's only getting worse.

I am fed up of going back to the UK to visit home & see these pricks protest against the government or army or Poppy's or flags. Are you having a a fucking laugh? It's England, if they want to fly a flag they bloody well should. If they want to celebrate their army and all they should it's their country. If you don't like it, leave. I'd love to see these people talk crap in Muslim countries. They would be smashed in seconds. Locked up & tortured.

I think it's time the British or west deport not only those who speak bad or against the country but the entire family also. You come to a country to milk the benefit system, free education & health yet complain. Try that in Pakistan or the Gulf. See what will happen. It's pissing me off seeing this shit. Monkeys like Anjem Choudhury etc. Try talk bad in the Muslim states and see.

Contribute to the country that looks after you and your family. Respect their culture and traditions the same way they do when they live in Muslim countries. Doesn't mean your going against your religion. It's respect & what's taught in Islam. Live by the laws of the land.

I was born and raised in England. Never had any issues with racism or islampbobia. My closest friends were English & non Muslims. They treated me like a brother and likewise. I was able to practice my religion without offending them and they did without offending me. But over the last decade I have noticed real changes and I don't like it.

I feel more Muslims need to start cleaning up our society. We are lucky to be able to have so many mosques in England, able to have free speech but don't take the piss. If you don't like what you see it's simple, LEAVE!

Don't use the system, benefit from
It then manipulate it and the country you live in. We need more Muslims in our society who are looked up too to speak to the community, educate them and fix this shit. I am ashamed to see what I do nowadays. It bothers me so much.

We need to clean our society up and start being more active in mosques and Muslim 'areas'. Educate them, flag the authorities if you see individuals act strange or become illusive, any dodgy behaviour go flag these people. The end of the day it's your country also so you need to protect is just as much.

I am Muslim and proud but if you have an issue with what I'm saying debate with me or raise your concerns, better yet delete me if you disagree. I'm not here too make friends or kiss ass. Muslims we need to start cleaning up our communities ASAP. We are just as much to blame for letting these idiots do these things as they are for sitting quiet. If we don't it won't stop only get worse.

Stop becoming militants and extremists. Pray, do good, give charity, be good to your family and elders, contribute to your community, help the place prosper. Integrate, speak the bloody language of the country, educate yourselves, if you cannot you don't deserve to be there in the first place. By community I mean the place you live.

I have so much to say it's hard to fit it all in a status but one thing is for sure WE Muslims need to start Looking in our own communities and really need to try help clean it up because as much as we want to blame others it's bullshit. We need to clean up first.

These Idiots are giving us all a bad name. To all those who work hard, act normal and so on. Time to fix up and seriously clean up our own people now!

by eddie Wed May 24, 2017 10:29 pm

And I'll add to that: if we as non-Muslims cleaned up our communities from those who spread ignorance about Muslims, then we could all work together, with people from all walks of life and religions, and we could possibly find a way to work together to bring harmony.

We may find answers that way.

by Guest Wed May 24, 2017 10:33 pm

Bar the Islam is beautiful part (no religions is to me), wow, that was impressive and spot on.

Even more so on the point about how she went on about the blame cast to the west all the time.

I hope more join her and she actually starts something here for other Muslims and Non-Muslims to be a part of.

by Raggamuffin Wed May 24, 2017 10:34 pm

It's pretty good, but it's still all a bit "them and us" isn't it?

by Victorismyhero Wed May 24, 2017 10:41 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:It's pretty good, but it's still all a bit "them and us" isn't it?

jeepers...I think I'm going to call you "Eyore"

by eddie Wed May 24, 2017 10:43 pm

I think it was a guy who posted it but yes, it's pretty impressive and I hope young Muslims read that and can find a way to realise that he speaks the truth.

by Raggamuffin Wed May 24, 2017 10:46 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:It's pretty good, but it's still all a bit "them and us" isn't it?

jeepers...I think I'm going to call you "Eyore"

Well it is, and isn't that the problem? There will always be a division of some kind because of it. I don't mean everyone - I don't who's a Muslim and who isn't, but look at the mention of Choudary - he's as British as you and I. Look at the comments like "if they want to fly the flag ..."

by HoratioTarr Thu May 25, 2017 8:00 am

Who's written it exactly?

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 8:09 am

HoratioTarr wrote:Who's written it exactly?

His name is Tam Khan and it was actually written in 2016 and face book initially deleted his account due to this. To then reinstate it after people complained. This is why I have no idea why people are on this social media site, as facebook only cares for money and attacks good people like this

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1572552/amir-khans-Muslim-trainer-tam-khan-banned-from-facebook-after-furious-rant-against-british-islamic-extremists/

"I am a Muslim and proud but enough is enough" TK1-616838

"I am a Muslim and proud but enough is enough" TK1-616838

by eddie Thu May 25, 2017 10:28 am

Just came here to post that info didge, and totally agree about Facebook. They won't allow brilliant and heartwarming posts like this but they encourage you to share photos of dying children (where is the parental consent or the consent of the child??) and ask you to type "amen".

by Fuzzy Zack Thu May 25, 2017 11:56 am

Here's the link to the original post:

https://www.facebook.com/tamkhan81/posts/10157185760175223

In case you want to read the comments also.

The attacker was ratted on by family, friends and within the community. He still managed to travel to Lybia. The security services knew he was a danger. Children still got blown to bits.

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 11:59 am

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Here's the link to the original post:

https://www.facebook.com/tamkhan81/posts/10157185760175223

In case you want to read the comments also.

The attacker was ratted on by family, friends and within the community. He still managed to travel to Lybia. The security services knew he was a danger. Children still got blown to bits.

So what could they have stopped him for?

Beliefs?

is all well and could saying in hindsight after an attack, but what should be said again is the Muslim community need to stop the blame game and thinking western help is a far heinous crime than Muslims butchering each other.

How about for once Muslims standing up as has done this man in this thread and call out what really is wrong?

by Fuzzy Zack Thu May 25, 2017 12:05 pm

Thorin wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:Here's the link to the original post:

https://www.facebook.com/tamkhan81/posts/10157185760175223

In case you want to read the comments also.

The attacker was ratted on by family, friends and within the community. He still managed to travel to Lybia. The security services knew he was a danger. Children still got blown to bits.

So what could they have stopped him for?

Beliefs?

is all well and could saying in hindsight after an attack, but what should be said again is the Muslim community need to stop the blame game and thinking western help is a far heinous crime than Muslims butchering each other.

How about for once Muslims standing up as has done this man in this thread and call out what really is wrong?

Well that flew over your head.

The Muslim community did do as he advised and ratted on him. The authorities didn't listen. So yes, I am blaming them.

Before getting emotional, try understand what I said. Thank you.

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 12:09 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Thorin wrote:

So what could they have stopped him for?

Beliefs?

is all well and could saying in hindsight after an attack, but what should be said again is the Muslim community need to stop the blame game and thinking western help is a far heinous crime than Muslims butchering each other.

How about for once Muslims standing up as has done this man in this thread and call out what really is wrong?

Well that flew over your head.

The Muslim community did do as he advised and ratted on him. The authorities didn't listen. So yes, I am blaming them.

Before getting emotional, try understand what I said. Thank you.

Did they do enough though?

The authorities can watch someone when there is many of which they do stop, but its impossible to stop all. You neglect the root cause, the hate taught based around the religion

So again why did he come to believe US help in Syria, was far worse than Muslims raping and murdering each other by Assad and ISIS? What is the Muslim community doing to counter this hate? What are they doing to counter all the crap used to blame the west?

Why is it you continually hear from Muslims, Islamic apologists and I have heard from you conspiracies about the west creating these attacks with 9/11, blaming western imperialism and all that other bullshit to excuse barbarism done in the name of Islam

Oh and cut the crap with emotions, nobody is buying

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 12:31 pm

eddie wrote:Just came here to post that info didge, and totally agree about Facebook. They won't allow brilliant and heartwarming posts like this but they encourage you to share photos of dying children (where is the parental consent or the consent of the child??) and ask you to type "amen".

Yeah I think people need to see that many social media sites are a stain on society today and swaying hate with people. People need to leave these sites as they do more harm than good and only care about money

by veya_victaous Thu May 25, 2017 12:32 pm

eddie wrote:And I'll add to that: if we as non-Muslims cleaned up our communities from those who spread ignorance about Muslims, then we could all work together, with people from all walks of life and religions, and we could possibly find a way to work together to bring harmony.

We may find answers that way.

I am loving a lot of the thoughts behind your posts recently eddie

Exactly Fucking right! the greatest security/intelligence Australia has preventing these sort of atrocities here is the Aussie Muslim.

I will add a shocking thing i heard on the news earlier is that this recent Manchester fuckwit's mosque had reported him to authorities 5 Times already!!!
what the hell??? it seems even when British Muslims are speaking up and reporting their 'bad eggs' they are being ignored

@raggs
you need to read some Confucius doctrine Not that i much agree with Confucius but one thing he says that i do agree with is that is the job of the superior/older/powerful to create the relationship
"it is the older brother in protecting and teaching the younger brother that the relationship of respect is formed"
which means in immigration terms that the hosts must foster the relationship with the migrants, one can not expect the weaker to do ti without open arms offered to them

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 12:41 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
eddie wrote:And I'll add to that: if we as non-Muslims cleaned up our communities from those who spread ignorance about Muslims, then we could all work together, with people from all walks of life and religions, and we could possibly find a way to work together to bring harmony.

We may find answers that way.

I will add a shocking thing i heard on the news earlier is that this recent Manchester fuckwit's mosque had reported him to authorities 5 Times already!!!
what the hell??? it seems even when British Muslims are speaking up and reporting their 'bad eggs' they are being ignored

Fuckwittery at its best

They did not ignore him, they were monitoring him, but like with foiling many attacks. Some can slip through, as he did. What you blatantly ignore is the hate that led him to commit barbaric acts. I mean if this was far right hate as we saw with Dylan roof, we looked to wards the ideology of hate. When its islamic islamists who murder, the opposite happens. we see instead a complete reverse to the reasoning. Yes its great that the Mosque spoke the Police, but what did the Mosque do to challenge his views of hate? Were they also complicit in blaming the west, which helped sow the seeds of hate?

by veya_victaous Thu May 25, 2017 12:59 pm

Yes they DID otherwise he would not have been able to attack.
If they took the reports from his mosque and family as seriously as Australian Authorities would have then it would not have occurred.

And YOU LOSE
I stated in previous thread IF your way(ignorant crusading hate) is right you surly would not have the next attack. BUT YOU DO because of Ignorant hate filled crusading scum like you extend the problem by not taking seriously warnings from mulsim community members because your too concerned with Prosthelytizing your brain fart opinions

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 1:11 pm

veya_victaous wrote:Yes they DID otherwise he would not have been able to attack.
If they took the reports from his mosque and family as seriously as Australian Authorities would have then it would not have occurred.

And YOU LOSE
I stated in previous thread IF your way(ignorant crusading hate) is right you surly would not have the next attack. BUT YOU DO because of Ignorant hate filled crusading scum like you extend the problem by not taking seriously warnings from mulsim community members because your too concerned with Prosthelytizing your brain fart opinions

And there you have it, the blame game.
Ignoring the root cause.
Again they had been monitoring, but when there is literally thousands that they are. Its near impossible to prevent all attacks

I dont lose anything because its never a competition you fuckwit

People are dead you fuckwit, because of hate

Then we have your usual unfounded accusations

It proves why you are an idiot

Now explain to me why with Dylan roof its far right hate and dont blame the Police, but with islamic extremism, you blame the Police and don;t blame islamic extremism?

The more pathetically immature you are with your insults, the more it proves how immature you are

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 1:25 pm

This needs to be said here again as the reason he did the attack was because of US air stikes in Syria

And there you have it.

US air strikes target Assad who murder thousands of civilians with gas attacks, shootings, bombings, starvation etc. They also target ISIS, who rape little girls, murder thousands of civilians and both are seen as lesser evils by these extremist fanatics. How or why would Islamists view American help as a reason to then blow up children at a British concert? Because they believe its acceptable to rape little girls and murder people as ISIS does. That we have no right to stop genocide and help innocent people. Its claimed he looked at Muslim children killed. Did he? Did he look at pictures where ISIS and Assad have murdered tens of thousands? Does not Christian, Yazidi, Druze, Kurdish ect children being murdered not matter then as well? As why did he not look at pictures of the countless atrocities committed by both Assad and ISIS in Syria?

This is the foreign policy Zack tells me is why Jihadists target us. A foreign policy to help free those targeted with genocide. That we should not intervene why they rape and butcher people. As they see it as Muslim lands, that are being transgressed and that they should have free reign to butcher and rape as much people as they like. Where for the first few years, the foreign policy was inaction. Which led to half a million dead, countless injured and 9 million displaced, leading to the refugee crisis. Which has led to an increase in hate against refugees and migrants.

This proves again the problem within the Muslim world, that a blame game and hate is perpetuated against the west, where we intentionally try to help stop the genocide of people.

Which goes back to my earlier point.

So foreign policy?

So where is all the Vietnamese Terrorism against the US and France back during the Indochina and Vietnam war and today?

Where is it based on their policies in two wars

Or Korean Terrorism?

Malaysian terrorism against the West?

How about any African nation?

How about the foreign policy in countless other countries?

How about Germany and Japan, from the civilian deaths of WW2?

Where is the terrorism against the west?

It is very much religious based around transgression, of which is very much played off. Its like as I said. Assad and ISIS can literally murder hundreds of thousands and is seen as a lesser evil, than the west killing by accidents some civilians. When the west is there to help in Syria.

I mean do you know what was the reason for the Bali bombing?

Because the west stopped the Indonesians committing genocide in East Timor against Christians. It was the third main reason of Al Qaeda being at odds with the west. The Wests intervention in East Timor. That we stopped genocide and Muslims saw this as an front. Are you saying that foreign policy was wrong?

How about Bosnia?

How about Kosovo?

The problem is clearly Islam and what happens to Muslims, where any non-Muslim seen to be helping Muslims is seen as a far heinous crime than Muslims butchering Muslims. So you prove exactly what I have said. That the west is viewed as colonialists and in regard to their foreign policy. So tell me, was it wrong to defeat the Taliban, who denied the most basic rights to Muslims in Afghanistan?

Was it wrong to remove a mass murderer in Saddam Hussein?

Where was the terrorism against his regime for his foreign policies?

by Raggamuffin Thu May 25, 2017 7:35 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
eddie wrote:And I'll add to that: if we as non-Muslims cleaned up our communities from those who spread ignorance about Muslims, then we could all work together, with people from all walks of life and religions, and we could possibly find a way to work together to bring harmony.

We may find answers that way.

I am loving a lot of the thoughts behind your posts recently eddie

Exactly Fucking right! the greatest security/intelligence Australia has preventing these sort of atrocities here is the Aussie Muslim.

I will add a shocking thing i heard on the news earlier is that this recent Manchester fuckwit's mosque had reported him to authorities 5 Times already!!!
what the hell??? it seems even when British Muslims are speaking up and reporting their 'bad eggs' they are being ignored

@raggs
you need to read some Confucius doctrine Not that i much agree with Confucius but one thing he says that i do agree with is that is the job of the superior/older/powerful to create the relationship
"it is the older brother in protecting and teaching the younger brother that the relationship of respect is formed"
which means in immigration terms that the hosts must foster the relationship with the migrants, one can not expect the weaker to do ti without open arms offered to them

I'm not sure why that is relevant to what I said, but we're not talking about migrants, we're talking about Muslims. One can be British and Muslim you know.

I don't necessarily agree with what you said anyway - it's up to the newcomer to fit in, or stop moaning about not fitting in.

by Raggamuffin Thu May 25, 2017 7:37 pm

Re the issue of nothing being done in advance, how do you arrest someone before they've done anything? If he'd been arrested and banged up for appearing to be sympathetic to ISIS, the usual crowd would be complaining about "thought crimes".

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 7:39 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Re the issue of nothing being done in advance, how do you arrest someone before they've done anything? If he'd been arrested and banged up for appearing to be sympathetic to ISIS, the usual crowd would be complaining about "thought crimes".

I agree. What constitutes a threat?

That someone has views supporting ISIS and backs suicide bombings?

Hell that would make a substantial number of the Muslim world, guilty based off polls.

But are such people a threat rags?

Its very difficult over who would act on this and who just support such barbaric views.

What do you think?

by Raggamuffin Thu May 25, 2017 7:49 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Re the issue of nothing being done in advance, how do you arrest someone before they've done anything? If he'd been arrested and banged up for appearing to be sympathetic to ISIS, the usual crowd would be complaining about "thought crimes".

I agree. What constitutes a threat?

That someone has views supporting ISIS and backs suicide bombings?

Hell that would make a substantial number of the Muslim world, guilty based off polls.

But are such people a threat rags?

Its very difficult over who would act on this and who just support such barbaric views.

What do you think?

I think it would be difficult to arrest someone for merely saying they support ISIS. Technically, it's against the law to support ISIS, but you'd have to lock them up for ever really, and that would be impractical.

I think the Government needs to invest more in "spooks". We often hear how a terrorist or an accomplice was known to the police or special services, but then fell off the radar. Is that because they don't have a manpower to keep tracking someone?

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 7:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:

I agree. What constitutes a threat?

That someone has views supporting ISIS and backs suicide bombings?

Hell that would make a substantial number of the Muslim world, guilty based off polls.

But are such people a threat rags?

Its very difficult over who would act on this and who just support such barbaric views.

What do you think?

I think it would be difficult to arrest someone for merely saying they support ISIS. Technically, it's against the law to support ISIS, but you'd have to lock them up for ever really, and that would be impractical.

I think the Government needs to invest more in "spooks". We often hear how a terrorist or an accomplice was known to the police or special services, but then fell off the radar. Is that because they don't have a manpower to keep tracking someone?

That is a fair point, but what if someone goes to join them fighting, which would then be against this country actively?

Would that not be treason?

Now many people go off to fight for other nations but for ISIS, they are against this country and at war with the UK.

So why are we not arresting them for treason and either deporting them if foreign or if British born, arresting them. Prosecuting them for treason?

Are we not failing our citizens by not acting against any enemies foreign or domestic?

by Raggamuffin Thu May 25, 2017 7:56 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I think it would be difficult to arrest someone for merely saying they support ISIS. Technically, it's against the law to support ISIS, but you'd have to lock them up for ever really, and that would be impractical.

I think the Government needs to invest more in "spooks". We often hear how a terrorist or an accomplice was known to the police or special services, but then fell off the radar. Is that because they don't have a manpower to keep tracking someone?

That is a fair point, but what if someone goes to join them fighting, which would then be against this country actively?

Would that not be treason?

Now many people go off to fight for other nations but for ISIS, they are against this country and at war with the UK.

So why are we not arresting them for treason and either deporting them if foreign or if British born, arresting them. Prosecuting them for treason?

Are we not failing our citizens by not acting against any enemies foreign or domestic?

Oh yeah, if they go off to fight for ISIS, they're a criminal and should be arrested if they ever come back. That goes for teenage girls too.

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 7:57 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:

That is a fair point, but what if someone goes to join them fighting, which would then be against this country actively?

Would that not be treason?

Now many people go off to fight for other nations but for ISIS, they are against this country and at war with the UK.

So why are we not arresting them for treason and either deporting them if foreign or if British born, arresting them. Prosecuting them for treason?

Are we not failing our citizens by not acting against any enemies foreign or domestic?

Oh yeah, if they go off to fight for ISIS, they're a criminal and should be arrested if they ever come back. That goes for teenage girls too.

Agreed, though there should be varying sentences on ages and the ability to rehabilitate those who have.

by Raggamuffin Thu May 25, 2017 8:00 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Oh yeah, if they go off to fight for ISIS, they're a criminal and should be arrested if they ever come back. That goes for teenage girls too.

Agreed, though there should be varying sentences on ages and the ability to rehabilitate those who have.

How do you know if someone is rehabilitated though? They're going to pretend they are so they can get out of jail. They need to be followed and monitored for a lifetime after that to be sure they're not going to do anything.

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 8:06 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Agreed, though there should be varying sentences on ages and the ability to rehabilitate those who have.

How do you know if someone is rehabilitated though? They're going to pretend they are so they can get out of jail. They need to be followed and monitored for a lifetime after that to be sure they're not going to do anything.

They could of course pretend, but then if they still are militant, then they would soon show they have broken their parole would they not Rags? It would surely have to be a condition. Those who do change would be those most e should look to, like for example Maajid Nawaz, who as a former extremist. Who for some strange reason is hated by many Muslims, when he stands for civil rights and moderation in Islam. That is sadly the uphill struggle faced at the moment. That because he speaks out against extremism is labelled disgustingly by the Southern Poverty Law Center in the US as an extremist and Muslim hater. That is how far and fucked up the regressive side of the left have become. When he is a Muslim and stands against extremism.

by eddie Thu May 25, 2017 8:13 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
eddie wrote:And I'll add to that: if we as non-Muslims cleaned up our communities from those who spread ignorance about Muslims, then we could all work together, with people from all walks of life and religions, and we could possibly find a way to work together to bring harmony.

We may find answers that way.

I am loving a lot of the thoughts behind your posts recently eddie

Exactly Fucking right! the greatest security/intelligence Australia has preventing these sort of atrocities here is the Aussie Muslim.

I will add a shocking thing i heard on the news earlier is that this recent Manchester fuckwit's mosque had reported him to authorities 5 Times already!!!
what the hell??? it seems even when British Muslims are speaking up and reporting their 'bad eggs' they are being ignored

Thank you Veya. I have always thought along these lines but I'm starting to see that clearly, it takes two sides to sort stuff out. I hate the "Muslim-bashing" that goes on after these attacks. I find myself arguing with fuckwits on FB about it all the time.
The ignorance is astounding!

Yes I've heard that some friends of his also reported him / spoke out when he started saying some stuff.
I'll try and find the link.

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 8:20 pm

eddie wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

I am loving a lot of the thoughts behind your posts recently eddie

Exactly Fucking right! the greatest security/intelligence Australia has preventing these sort of atrocities here is the Aussie Muslim.

I will add a shocking thing i heard on the news earlier is that this recent Manchester fuckwit's mosque had reported him to authorities 5 Times already!!!
what the hell??? it seems even when British Muslims are speaking up and reporting their 'bad eggs' they are being ignored

Thank you Veya. I have always thought along these lines but I'm starting to see that clearly, it takes two sides to sort stuff out. I hate the "Muslim-bashing" that goes on after these attacks. I find myself arguing with fuckwits on FB about it all the time.
The ignorance is astounding!

Yes I've heard that some friends of his also reported him / spoke out when he started saying some stuff.
I'll try and find the link.

I agree its wrong to Muslim bash Eddie, but what I find worse is when people defend beliefs in Islam that are hateful to women, homosexuals ect. Just as much as if any literal Christian is bigoted like this, I would never shy away from speaking out against their prejudice.

So I stand with all progressive Muslims, but what did zack say himself about most Muslims and their beliefs?

Should we not challenge zack on his views, say for example on homosexuality?

Should e just accept his views or challenge them, as we would any literal Christian?

I agree with your view on hate on FB, its wrong and I would stand with any Muslims suffering hate for just being a Muslim, but should that mean I not speak out on beliefs they hold that are counter to the well being and equality of others?

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 8:25 pm

Put it this way, in Texas, they are trying to introduce laws against homosexuals. What would your view be if both Texan Christians and Muslims voted through these anti homosexual laws?

by eddie Thu May 25, 2017 9:10 pm

Thorin wrote:Put it this way, in Texas, they are trying to introduce laws against homosexuals. What would your view be if both Texan Christians and Muslims voted through these anti homosexual laws?

I'd be horrified, annoyed etc etc

Listen, I don't for one minute, think you should stay quiet about how you feel, I never would suggest that. But Zack believes what he chooses to believe. I don't agree with him re homosexuality, everyone knows my thoughts on this topic, but I'm fine with him thinking what he wants (as long as he doesn't verbally abuse gay people or cause harm) it's his prerogative to choose what he wants to believe.

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 9:13 pm

eddie wrote:
Thorin wrote:Put it this way, in Texas, they are trying to introduce laws against homosexuals. What would your view be if both Texan Christians and Muslims voted through these anti homosexual laws?

I'd be horrified, annoyed etc etc

Listen, I don't for one minute, think you should stay quiet about how you feel, I never would suggest that. But Zack believes what he chooses to believe. I don't agree with him re homosexuality, everyone knows my thoughts on this topic, but I'm fine with him thinking what he wants (as long as he doesn't verbally abuse gay people or cause harm) it's his prerogative to choose what he wants to believe.

Great that you are fine thinking what he wants.
What happens when as seen in Texas when that turns into forcing religious views onto others?
So I agree its fine thinking what he wants, its not when people force their religious beliefs

So again, Texas is voting on laws that discriminate against homosexuals and you will find both Christians and Muslims voting against them

So be horrified, because its not going to help homosexuals your horror.

by eddie Thu May 25, 2017 9:30 pm

Do you think anything that I might say will change Zack's mind?

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 9:32 pm

eddie wrote:Do you think anything that I might say will change Zack's mind?

Have I at any point ask you to?

What am I asking of you?

To speak out against poor prejudice religious beliefs that effect they well being and equality of others?

Does that make me anti Muslim or anti Christian?

by eddie Thu May 25, 2017 9:35 pm

I've never said you were anti-Muslim or anti-Christian. In fact I stated the other day that you wasn't to Quill on another thread.
Not quite sure where we are going with this. I'm not disagreeing with you I'm merely saying, do you actually think you or I, will change Zack's mind on homosexuality?

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 9:47 pm

eddie wrote:I've never said you were anti-Muslim or anti-Christian. In fact I stated the other day that you wasn't to Quill on another thread.
Not quite sure where we are going with this. I'm not disagreeing with you I'm merely saying, do you actually think you or I, will change Zack's mind on homosexuality?

To veya off this terrorism, you said that it takes two sides to sort this stuff out.

In his case with terrorism, it only takes one side to sort this out.

In that it is wrong and that the side that does this, when they can find other means, is always wrong.

There is no excuse or reason Eddie, as its always wrong. By laying blame to a side, you given reason to that murder and terrorism itself.

Now rightly you will argue against war and I will listen and validate your arguments, but no war will ever give two sides to terrorist acts when targeted against innocent civilian lives, unless other civilian lives are at risk. There are rules on war that govern acts that are war crimes.

So it will never take two sides to sort out terrorism, when there is always ways for peace, of which there is unless those committing terrorism, have no care for peace over the value of human life.

So when one side says its wrong to discriminate, say for example against homosexuals and those who you say not to bash, do discriminate against them. When I am not even bashing them, but its taken as I am because i stand against beliefs that they discriminate against others?

How is there two sides?

I am seen as bashing people for standing up for equality, by not even bashing them, but by challenging them.

Do you see where I am coming from?

That any criticism is seen as bashing?

So is there really two sides, or what people decide what is that side?

When all I want is for people to be treated equally under the law?

by eddie Thu May 25, 2017 9:58 pm

I understand where you're coming from yes, by that I mean I understand your way of thinking but I'm not sure I agree.
I'm only going to pick this point out, for now:

When there are two opposing sides, doesn't it take both sides to sort it out? That is the only way.

by Guest Thu May 25, 2017 10:03 pm

eddie wrote:I understand where you're coming from yes, by that I mean I understand your way of thinking but I'm not sure I agree.
I'm only going to pick this point out, for now:

When there are two opposing sides, doesn't it take both sides to sort it out? That is the only way.

1400 years later and we still have Shia and Sunni violence

We had the same with Protestant and Catholic

It took two things to sort the later out and it came from neither side.

It was secularism and enlightenment and they never came from either side.

So I think you will find its a third party that is best placed to sort out two warring factions.

How can I say, how many times have you stepped in to break up a feud between two friends or family?

by eddie Thu May 25, 2017 10:53 pm

Lately, I have been involved in two friends falling out.
It's been quite emotionally draining.

by Fuzzy Zack Thu May 25, 2017 11:38 pm

How quickly the sanctimonious goes from getting me to change my mind, to allowing me to believe what I want. Fearful he'd be exposed as a hypocrite.

HA HA!

by Fuzzy Zack Thu May 25, 2017 11:39 pm

eddie wrote:Do you think anything that I might say will change Zack's mind?

I bet I can get you to change your mind first. Basketball

by eddie Thu May 25, 2017 11:42 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
eddie wrote:Do you think anything that I might say will change Zack's mind?

I bet I can get you to change your mind first.

Not on the issue of homosexuality. Never. You can give it a go, but it won't happen. Basketball

by Fuzzy Zack Thu May 25, 2017 11:50 pm

Didge doesn't even know my views on homosexuality.

by Guest Fri May 26, 2017 12:37 am

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Didge doesn't even know my views on homosexuality.

Is that why you had a hissy fit on here on same sex marriage?

I could care less to be honest what your views are now, as you completely miss the point

Seems I must upset your feelings just because I challenge beliefs.

That I am more interested in

by Guest Fri May 26, 2017 12:48 am

eddie wrote:Lately, I have been involved in two friends falling out.
It's been quite emotionally draining.

But you see my point Eddie

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