When grandparents are banned from seeing their grandchildren.

by Syl Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:41 pm

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/celebrity/angelina-jolie-bans-jon-voight-from-seeing-grandchildren-despite-him-sending-heartfelt-messages/ar-BBybRfN?li=AA5a2k&ocid=spartanntp

"Oscar-winning actress Angelina Jolie has reportedly banned her father Jon Voight from visiting his grandchildren as the relationship between the father-daughter has reportedly turned sour.
According to Radar Online, the First They Killed My Father star wants to stay away from her father and former husband Brad Pitt. A source told the celebrity gossip website that Voight has been trying to connect with his 41-year-old daughter and her children, but she does not want anything to do with him.
"Not a week goes by that Jon doesn't send Angie or her people a heartfelt note, but he's been given a message to stop bugging her and get used to the fact he's not welcome," the source said.
"The bottom line is that Angelina just doesn't like Jon and sees no reason why he deserves access to the kids. He was a horrible role model and she'll never forgive or forget the past," the source added."

.......................................................

This article got me thinking. Surely, unless you have very good reason to believe your children would not benefit from seeing grandparents, it should be the very last resort to deny them a grandchild/grandparent relationship.
Is just not particularly liking them yourself good enough reason?

by Ben Reilly Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:51 pm

Well, if you felt your father had traumatized you and then you had kids, I can totally understand why it would fill you with terror to think he might have the same effect on them.

On my mom's side, my grandmother died a few months before I was born, and we moved away from my grandfather so I never really knew him. On my dad's side, my grandfather was a cheating drunk who abandoned his family, and my grandmother was a sociopath -- so I don't think you have to have a great relationship with your grandparents to turn out okay. Or relatively okay. Or at least a high-functioning weirdo.

by Guest Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:04 pm

Well the questions to ask here are simple.

Is how she grew up a reflection on how he is now?

Is she putting her feelings over that of her children here?

Are people to be condemned for how they once acted on how she she perceives he raised her?

She will end up hurting her own children here, trying to spite her father. Of which she may come to regret, as they will remember her stance here when they grow up. Which could come back to haunt her.

He is 78 and she clearly is clinging to the past. She does not have to get on with him, but that is no reason to deny her father a relationship with her children.

by veya_victaous Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:58 pm

to be fair Angelina seem to be a sociopath, that should probably not have custody of the kids.

Any parent that cant attempt to be amical in divorce (when it was not an abusive relationship) is putting themselves and their emotions before their children's well being.

by eddie Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:03 pm

Perhaps she reasons that he was a shit father so he will be a shit grandparent.
Sometimes you have to be in the situation to understand the nuances as to the why's of the situation.

by Guest Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:08 pm

eddie wrote:Perhaps she reasons that he was a shit father so he will be a shit grandparent.
Sometimes you have to be in the situation to understand the nuances as to the why's of the situation.

That is up to her, but what if because of this and one of her future children has a major row and leaves home. Then gets married and has children and then based off her doing this to her father, has this done to her herself.
Would that not be the lesson she is possible teaching her children here Eddie?

by eddie Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:18 pm

I agree didge and I'm not actually saying it's right to do this for no real reason - I don't think any parent should stop a relative seeing their children - but perhaps Jolie has really good reasons? We don't know.

by Guest Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:20 pm

eddie wrote:I agree didge and I'm not actually saying it's right to do this for no real reason - I don't think any parent should stop a relative seeing their children - but perhaps Jolie has really good reasons? We don't know.

Well her reasons are based on parenting.
He is not going to be the parent here, but the grand parent and can be there with visits.
So to me, its not the best excuse to deny him here.
Again its up to her, I just hope she understand the possible consequences for her actions on this and does not end up regretting this.

by Syl Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:22 am

Ben Reilly wrote:Well, if you felt your father had traumatized you and then you had kids, I can totally understand why it would fill you with terror to think he might have the same effect on them.

On my mom's side, my grandmother died a few months before I was born, and we moved away from my grandfather so I never really knew him. On my dad's side, my grandfather was a cheating drunk who abandoned his family, and my grandmother was a sociopath -- so I don't think you have to have a great relationship with your grandparents to turn out okay. Or relatively okay. Or at least a high-functioning weirdo.

I think if you have love in your life as a child you can turn out great no matter what....but a grandparents love can be a very special beneficial relationship for a child, there is nothing quite like it....to deny that because you don't get on yourself with a parent is pretty selfish imo.

Obviously, if the parent had traumatised you when you were a kid that's different, but many times I think denying grandparents (or sometimes a partner if a couple split) access to the children is some sort of revenge to get back at them.

by Syl Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:25 am

veya_victaous wrote:to be fair Angelina seem to be a sociopath, that should probably not have custody of the kids.

Any parent that cant attempt to be amical in divorce (when it was not an abusive relationship) is putting themselves and their emotions before their children's well being.

I agree....she seems to be a acting in her own interests not the children's.
Her dad seems to be forever apologising to her......maybe he wasn't a good role model, but people change, and everyone deserves a chance.

by Syl Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:31 am

eddie wrote:Perhaps she reasons that he was a shit father so he will be a shit grandparent.
Sometimes you have to be in the situation to understand the nuances as to the why's of the situation.

True, I just quoted her story because it's been in the news, but it happens to many grandparents all the time.
Maybe she does have good reasons, if so she is rightly protecting her kids, but the quote that 'she just doesn't like her dad' sounded like she is not giving her kids the chance to get to know him.
She may not like him, they might love him given the chance.

by Syl Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:43 am

Thorin wrote:Well the questions to ask here are simple.

Is how she grew up a reflection on how he is now?

Is she putting her feelings over that of her children here?

Are people to be condemned for how they once acted on how she she perceives he raised her?

She will end up hurting her own children here, trying to spite her father. Of which she may come to regret, as they will remember her stance here when they grow up. Which could come back to haunt her.

He is 78 and she clearly is clinging to the past. She does not have to get on with him, but that is no reason to deny her father a relationship with her children.

It's Sad when people cling to the past and can't move on, even sadder if you are teaching your kids to do the same.
Like you say Thor, he is 78.....it'll be too late one day to give him the chance to make amends.

by veya_victaous Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:45 am

eddie wrote:I agree didge and I'm not actually saying it's right to do this for no real reason - I don't think any parent should stop a relative seeing their children - but perhaps Jolie has really good reasons? We don't know.

She is also doing it to Brad, which is the point SHE is the one cutting important people out of the children's Live Because of HER issues, not taking into account the children's welfare at all.

by Original Quill Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:56 am

Angelina Jolie and her father, Jon Voight, have been estranged since long before Jolie had children. It is due of 'ex-wife poison', not any paedophilia.

There are a lot of alienated grandparents, usually due to divorce. It's become a common lawsuit, with a growing body of law.

by Syl Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:40 pm

Original Quill wrote: Angelina Jolie and her father, Jon Voight, have been estranged since long before Jolie had children. It is due of 'ex-wife poison', not any paedophilia.

There are a lot of alienated grandparents, usually due to divorce. It's become a common lawsuit, with a growing body of law.

They definitely have always had a rocky relationship, did he not once go public and say she needed help for her mental state?
I read that they had made up and were in a good relationship fairly recently though.....course we only know what we read.

Re divorce, or people having children with different partners, this can cause kids to lose contact with their grandparents, either deliberately or not, it can also extend the family so children can have loving relationships with more grandparents.

My own grandson has a little brother, no blood relation to us at all....he has always thought of us as his nana and granddad and we have always thought of him as a grandson, plus he has other sets of grandparents too....double fun.

by Original Quill Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:07 pm

Jolie is a volitile person, as Brad Pitt is finding out just now. She is obsessive with her collection of children, which to me appears she uses as something of a defensive barrier, sometimes a foil.

At one point she and her father tried reconciliation, but apparently that didn't work out. I don't know if she is somehow flawed, but she is different.

Most grandparent estrangements come about as a result of bitterness between the spouses. The grandparents have to do a loop-around to reestablish the connection. The father is indifferent and the mother is hostile, so the grandparents must assert the standing and make the demand themselves.

by Syl Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:14 pm

Original Quill wrote:Jolie is a volitile person, as Brad Pitt is finding out just now. She is obsessive with her collection of children, which to me appears she uses as something of a defensive barrier, sometimes a foil.

At one point she and her father tried reconciliation, but apparently that didn't work out. I don't know if she is somehow flawed, but she is different.

Most grandparent estrangements come about as a result of bitterness between the spouses. The grandparents have to do a loop-around to reestablish the connection. The father is indifferent and the mother is hostile, so the grandparents must assert the standing and make the demand themselves.

I'm sure if adults were not so selfish the offspring could often have good relationships with grandparents when relationships break down.
I know of cases where grandparents have been cut off...or just phased out, hurtful for them and hurtful for the children.
My own case is my son and my grandsons mum split up very early on. She had custody and married someone else soon after. We have been very lucky to be able to stay friendly with everyone.....my son was never pushed out of his own sons life (like poor Brad Pitt appears to be) and we as grandparents have always been included in everything......and that's down to the mum, dad, new partners being able to be act fairly and think of the children.

by Guest Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:17 pm

I've always thought she was a head case .

If i never saw my grandson it would be very painful for us both . My grandson is five and since the day he was born we have a special bond . He loves being at our home and is very relaxed and if he doesn't see us for a few days he will ask his mum and dad to bring him to see us .

He's the light of my life and without him my life would not be complete .

The love of a grandchild is something special its deep and yet different to the to love of your own child . When grandchildren come along you can spend more time spoiling them lol .

I get the feeling Angelina is onto some sort of revenge and that's dangerous children pick up on emotions .

by Fred Moletrousers Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:31 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I've always thought she was a head case .

If i never saw my grandson it would be very painful for us both . My grandson is five and since the day he was born we have a special bond . He loves being at our home and is very relaxed and if he doesn't see us for a few days he will ask his mum and dad to bring him to see us .

He's the light of my life and without him my life would not be complete .

The love of a grandchild is something special its deep and yet different to the to love of your own child . When grandchildren come along you can spend more time spoiling them lol .

I get the feeling Angelina is onto some sort of revenge and that's dangerous children pick up on emotions .

VoD, whatever issues you and I have had in the past have now disappeared from my point of view: Your post reflects precisely my own feelings on grandparenthood.

I have a grandson of 19 just embarking on studies that will hopefully lead to the practice of veterinary medicine, whom I fondly remember being ecstatic when I first allowed him to drive my tractor at the age of 9. And a blonde, beautiful teenage grand daughter who is as mad as a box of frogs and longing to become an actress. I love them both (doubly so after the death of their grandmother) and the thought of not being allowed to see them would devastate me.

And yes, I spoil them both absolutely rotten!

by Syl Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:36 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I've always thought she was a head case .

If i never saw my grandson it would be very painful for us both . My grandson is five and since the day he was born we have a special bond . He loves being at our home and is very relaxed and if he doesn't see us for a few days he will ask his mum and dad to bring him to see us .

He's the light of my life and without him my life would not be complete .

The love of a grandchild is something special its deep and yet different to the to love of your own child . When grandchildren come along you can spend more time spoiling them lol .

I get the feeling Angelina is onto some sort of revenge and that's dangerous children pick up on emotions .

That's a lovely post and describes very well the great importance a grandparent is in a childs life.

I feel exactly the same way.....Your grandson is a great age....it doesn't seem 5 minutes ago mine were 5, they are older now, one is away at uni, the other is 17, still at home, and we see them both as often as their lives allow, but we still have holidays together every year, and special meals out.
I miss the days when they were always here and never wanted to go home. Smile

They grow up SO fast.....each stage is lovely though.

You cant get those times back...Angelina should think on that.

by Syl Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:38 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I've always thought she was a head case .

If i never saw my grandson it would be very painful for us both . My grandson is five and since the day he was born we have a special bond . He loves being at our home and is very relaxed and if he doesn't see us for a few days he will ask his mum and dad to bring him to see us .

He's the light of my life and without him my life would not be complete .

The love of a grandchild is something special its deep and yet different to the to love of your own child . When grandchildren come along you can spend more time spoiling them lol .

I get the feeling Angelina is onto some sort of revenge and that's dangerous children pick up on emotions .

VoD, whatever issues you and I have had in the past have now disappeared from my point of view: Your post reflects precisely my own feelings on grandparenthood.

I have a grandson of 19 just embarking on studies that will hopefully lead to the practice of veterinary medicine, whom I fondly remember being ecstatic when I first allowed him to drive my tractor at the age of 9. And a blonde, beautiful teenage grand daughter who is as mad as a box of frogs and longing to become an actress. I love them both (doubly so after the death of their grandmother) and the thought of not being allowed to see them would devastate me.

And yes, I spoil them both absolutely rotten!

Another lovely post. x

by Guest Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:42 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I've always thought she was a head case .

If i never saw my grandson it would be very painful for us both . My grandson is five and since the day he was born we have a special bond . He loves being at our home and is very relaxed and if he doesn't see us for a few days he will ask his mum and dad to bring him to see us .

He's the light of my life and without him my life would not be complete .

The love of a grandchild is something special its deep and yet different to the to love of your own child . When grandchildren come along you can spend more time spoiling them lol .

I get the feeling Angelina is onto some sort of revenge and that's dangerous children pick up on emotions .

VoD, whatever issues you and I have had in the past have now disappeared from my point of view: Your post reflects precisely my own feelings on grandparenthood.

I have a grandson of 19 just embarking on studies that will hopefully lead to the practice of veterinary medicine, whom I fondly remember being ecstatic when I first allowed him to drive my tractor at the age of 9. And a blonde, beautiful teenage grand daughter who is as mad as a box of frogs and longing to become an actress. I love them both (doubly so after the death of their grandmother) and the thought of not being allowed to see them would devastate me.

And yes, I spoil them both absolutely rotten!

Same here- I bet they are great company for you too . Glad we have moved on also Smile

by Guest Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:01 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I've always thought she was a head case .

If i never saw my grandson it would be very painful for us both . My grandson is five and since the day he was born we have a special bond . He loves being at our home and is very relaxed and if he doesn't see us for a few days he will ask his mum and dad to bring him to see us .

He's the light of my life and without him my life would not be complete .

The love of a grandchild is something special its deep and yet different to the to love of your own child . When grandchildren come along you can spend more time spoiling them lol .

I get the feeling Angelina is onto some sort of revenge and that's dangerous children pick up on emotions .

VoD, whatever issues you and I have had in the past have now disappeared from my point of view: Your post reflects precisely my own feelings on grandparenthood.

I have a grandson of 19 just embarking on studies that will hopefully lead to the practice of veterinary medicine, whom I fondly remember being ecstatic when I first allowed him to drive my tractor at the age of 9. And a blonde, beautiful teenage grand daughter who is as mad as a box of frogs and longing to become an actress. I love them both (doubly so after the death of their grandmother) and the thought of not being allowed to see them would devastate me.

And yes, I spoil them both absolutely rotten!

I have no reservations that you are an excellent Grandfather and mentor to your Grand children
I also do not class it as spoiling, if you do not see them daily. That to me, is just how Grand Parents should be and generally are. Wonderful and will want for them the best. What I would like to know on a personal note. Is if you were faced with this situation and became estranged from your own children and you have already built up a loving relationship with your Grand children.

Would you go as far as going to court, if your own child was being spiteful and clearly hurting their own children by their actions, hypothetically?

I see many now do take their own children too court over this and I have great sympathy for them, when they become ostracized from seeing their grand children. I personally think its wrong and that, no matter how estranged and angry family become. They should never allow this to spill over into the relationships children have with their grandparents.

Hypothetically would you not approach this or try alternative means by building bridges.

Just interested and you have no need to answer, if it is something you do not want to.

by Fred Moletrousers Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:19 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

VoD, whatever issues you and I have had in the past have now disappeared from my point of view: Your post reflects precisely my own feelings on grandparenthood.

I have a grandson of 19 just embarking on studies that will hopefully lead to the practice of veterinary medicine, whom I fondly remember being ecstatic when I first allowed him to drive my tractor at the age of 9. And a blonde, beautiful teenage grand daughter who is as mad as a box of frogs and longing to become an actress. I love them both (doubly so after the death of their grandmother) and the thought of not being allowed to see them would devastate me.

And yes, I spoil them both absolutely rotten!

Same here- I bet they are great company for you too . Glad we have moved on also

That poem about your knickers really was intended as a bit of fun!!!!!!!!!!! (Remember it?)

by Guest Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:20 pm

didge- my son and daughter in law know the importance of their son's relationship with us and his other nanna - they have always said that if there was a split they would insist on us continuing our relationship with our grandson .

As for taking it to court - i think i would have to because i love my grandson so much and i would be doing it for his and our benefit as i believe it is in his best interest to have a relationship with us and his other nanna .

I would hope it never came to that but i would take action if needed .

by Guest Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:25 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:didge- my son and daughter in law know the importance of their son's relationship with us and his other nanna - they have always said that if there was a split they would insist on us continuing our relationship with our grandson .

As for taking it to court - i think i would have to because i love my grandson so much and i would be doing it for his and our benefit as i believe it is in his best interest to have a relationship with us and his other nanna .

I would hope it never came to that but i would take action if needed .

That is interesting to know and thanks for answering.
I would back you in your decision to do so, as I think its unfair on the grand children, when children spite their parents over this.

by Fred Moletrousers Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:27 pm

Thorin wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

VoD, whatever issues you and I have had in the past have now disappeared from my point of view: Your post reflects precisely my own feelings on grandparenthood.

I have a grandson of 19 just embarking on studies that will hopefully lead to the practice of veterinary medicine, whom I fondly remember being ecstatic when I first allowed him to drive my tractor at the age of 9. And a blonde, beautiful teenage grand daughter who is as mad as a box of frogs and longing to become an actress. I love them both (doubly so after the death of their grandmother) and the thought of not being allowed to see them would devastate me.

And yes, I spoil them both absolutely rotten!

I have no reservations that you are an excellent Grandfather and mentor to your Grand children
I also do not class it as spoiling, if you do not see them daily. That to me, is just how Grand Parents should be and generally are. Wonderful and will want for them the best. What I would like to know on a personal note. Is if you were faced with this situation and became estranged from your own children and you have already built up a loving relationship with your Grand children.

Would you go as far as going to court, if your own child was being spiteful and clearly hurting their own children by their actions, hypothetically?

No, I couldn't. The law is something that I do know quite a bit about, and cases like this always get well out of hand and become de-personalised because of the inevitable intervention of opposing counsel

I see many now do take their own children too court over this and I have great sympathy for them, when they become ostracized from seeing their grand children. I personally think its wrong and that, no matter how estranged and angry family become. They should never allow this to spill over into the relationships children have with their grandparents.

Hypothetically would you not approach this or try alternative means by building bridges.

It would, thank God, be entirely hypothetical because I am blessed in having the most wonderful relationship with my only daughter...one made even closer, if possible, after my wife's death.

I would try everything - everything within my powers - to resolve the matter, but if all else failed I would have to concede that my grandchildren are my daughter's children - and not mine. But I would be heartbroken.

Just interested and you have no need to answer, if it is something you do not want to.

by Guest Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:34 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Thorin wrote:

I have no reservations that you are an excellent Grandfather and mentor to your Grand children
I also do not class it as spoiling, if you do not see them daily. That to me, is just how Grand Parents should be and generally are. Wonderful and will want for them the best. What I would like to know on a personal note. Is if you were faced with this situation and became estranged from your own children and you have already built up a loving relationship with your Grand children.

Would you go as far as going to court, if your own child was being spiteful and clearly hurting their own children by their actions, hypothetically?

No, I couldn't. The law is something that I do know quite a bit about, and cases like this always get well out of hand and become de-personalised because of the inevitable intervention of opposing counsel

I see many now do take their own children too court over this and I have great sympathy for them, when they become ostracized from seeing their grand children. I personally think its wrong and that, no matter how estranged and angry family become. They should never allow this to spill over into the relationships children have with their grandparents.

Hypothetically would you not approach this or try alternative means by building bridges.

It would, thank God, be entirely hypothetical because I am blessed in having the most wonderful relationship with my only daughter...one made even closer, if possible, after my wife's death.

I would try everything - everything within my powers - to resolve the matter, but if all else failed I would have to concede that my grandchildren are my daughter's children - and not mine. But I would be heartbroken.

Just interested and you have no need to answer, if it is something you do not want to.

You can go to court on matters like this Fred

http://www.thefamilylawco.co.uk/information/what-are-grandparents-rights/

I respect your decisions on this and can see you would feel that taking to court could further damage the relationship. Though sometimes a court is needed to show when people are being in the wrong for denying their Grandchildren, because they are being stubborn.
Its difficult Fred and hence why I was interested in your view.

Its a terrible situation, I would not want anyone to have to face, but I think also it would never happened to you or Dibs, as you are a testament to how well you raised your children. If there is great love their, it diminishes any chances of this ever happening, thankfully.

by Fred Moletrousers Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:02 pm

Thorin wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

You can go to court on matters like this Fred

http://www.thefamilylawco.co.uk/information/what-are-grandparents-rights/

I respect your decisions on this and can see you would feel that taking to court could further damage the relationship. Though sometimes a court is needed to show when people are being in the wrong for denying their Grandchildren, because they are being stubborn.
Its difficult Fred and hence why I was interested in your view.

Its a terrible situation, I would not want anyone to have to face, but I think also it would never happened to you or Dibs, as you are a testament to how well you raised your children. If there is great love their, it diminishes any chances of this ever happening, thankfully.

I would do anything to avoid becoming embroiled in the family courts, and even more so the UK Court of Protection.

At least I have done as much as I can to keep my family's affairs out of the clutches of the latter, the awesome powers of which simply are not appreciated by most people.

Anyone with dependents and/or close families who do not IMMEDIATELY look into taking out Powers of Attorney for both health and welfare and property and finance are, in my book, fucking stark raving mad.

by Guest Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:15 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Thorin wrote:

You can go to court on matters like this Fred

http://www.thefamilylawco.co.uk/information/what-are-grandparents-rights/

I respect your decisions on this and can see you would feel that taking to court could further damage the relationship. Though sometimes a court is needed to show when people are being in the wrong for denying their Grandchildren, because they are being stubborn.
Its difficult Fred and hence why I was interested in your view.

Its a terrible situation, I would not want anyone to have to face, but I think also it would never happened to you or Dibs, as you are a testament to how well you raised your children. If there is great love their, it diminishes any chances of this ever happening, thankfully.

I would do anything to avoid becoming embroiled in the family courts, and even more so the UK Court of Protection.

At least I have done as much as I can to keep my family's affairs out of the clutches of the latter, the awesome powers of which simply are not appreciated by most people.

Anyone with dependents and/or close families who do not IMMEDIATELY look into taking out Powers of Attorney for both health and welfare and property and finance are, in my book, fucking stark raving mad.

I can see your point on that. As it could ruin both parties financially and many Lawyers are out to make money without any care of the consequences
.
.

Here is a thought.
The Grandparents could not be stopped from coming to things like plays or sport events at the school. Or any activity they do publicly.

Being there could place the desired effect on stubborn parents at odds with their parents. If the Grand children rush off to see them, at such events. That to me would be a way of bridging the gap of this divide. That the parents then. Would see how they are then hurting their own children, by denying them access to their parents.
Could it help bring about the right emotional response?
Or bad idea?

by HoratioTarr Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:10 am

veya_victaous wrote:to be fair Angelina seem to be a sociopath, that should probably not have custody of the kids.

Any parent that cant attempt to be amical in divorce (when it was not an abusive relationship) is putting themselves and their emotions before their children's well being.

I agree. Never ever should parents put their own feelings about divorce up against their children's mental and emotional well being. You can't just expect a child to switch off their feelings for one parent because you suddenly hate each other.

by HoratioTarr Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:17 am

Syl wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:to be fair Angelina seem to be a sociopath, that should probably not have custody of the kids.

Any parent that cant attempt to be amical in divorce (when it was not an abusive relationship) is putting themselves and their emotions before their children's well being.

I agree....she seems to be a acting in her own interests not the children's.
Her dad seems to be forever apologising to her......maybe he wasn't a good role model, but people change, and everyone deserves a chance.

Perhaps it's also more to do with how her father treated her mother. He cheated on her, and they split when Angelina was 12. She probably had to deal with her mother's pain and grief at that time, and that has a profound effect on you.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:21 am

veya_victaous wrote:to be fair Angelina seem to be a sociopath, that should probably not have custody of the kids.

Any parent that cant attempt to be amical in divorce (when it was not an abusive relationship) is putting themselves and their emotions before their children's well being.

In what way is she a sociopath? Not being amicable in a divorce doesn't make someone a sociopath.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:32 am

Original Quill wrote: Angelina Jolie and her father, Jon Voight, have been estranged since long before Jolie had children. It is due of 'ex-wife poison', not any paedophilia.

There are a lot of alienated grandparents, usually due to divorce. It's become a common lawsuit, with a growing body of law.

Who mentioned paedophilia?

Didn't John Voight talk publically about Angelina's "mental health" problems? I don't think that would have gone down well, so it's not necessarily about "ex-wife poison".

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:39 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:

I agree....she seems to be a acting in her own interests not the children's.
Her dad seems to be forever apologising to her......maybe he wasn't a good role model, but people change, and everyone deserves a chance.

Perhaps it's also more to do with how her father treated her mother. He cheated on her, and they split when Angelina was 12. She probably had to deal with her mother's pain and grief at that time, and that has a profound effect on you.

I think Angelina was a baby when they split.

by Syl Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:11 pm

Many people cheat, treat their partners badly, and probably don't make very good parents because of it. Being a grandparent is different, hopefully they have matured and have lots of love to give to their grandchildren.....its sad to hold someone to account for the rest of their lives because they acted foolishly when they were young.

My dad was a cheater...he disappeared out of our lives when I was small. Had he still been alive after I had married and had a child, and if I thought he was a nice person, I dont think I would have denied him a relationship with his grandson.

I don't know what sort of person Jon Voight is, his daughter does though.....maybe she has made the decision to protect her kids being hurt, maybe she has made it because he treated her own mum badly...only she knows that.

by Syl Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:16 pm

Thor asked..

Would you go as far as going to court, if your own child was being spiteful and clearly hurting their own children by their actions, hypothetically?

I agree with Freds answer.
I would not drag my son or daughter through the courts to gain access if they had denied it to me.
Even if I won, it would harm relationships all round, and like Fred said ultimately they are the parents not you.

by Guest Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:47 pm

Thorin wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

You can go to court on matters like this Fred

http://www.thefamilylawco.co.uk/information/what-are-grandparents-rights/

I respect your decisions on this and can see you would feel that taking to court could further damage the relationship. Though sometimes a court is needed to show when people are being in the wrong for denying their Grandchildren, because they are being stubborn.
Its difficult Fred and hence why I was interested in your view.

Its a terrible situation, I would not want anyone to have to face, but I think also it would never happened to you or Dibs, as you are a testament to how well you raised your children. If there is great love their, it diminishes any chances of this ever happening, thankfully.

Thank you - My children have a very loving relationship with my parents and so they know how it would feel to suddenly being banned from seeing them . That is why my children have reassured us that it would never happen .
So i guess it is a reflection of how children are brought up and how close they are to family .

by Guest Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:55 pm

Syl wrote:Thor asked..

Would you go as far as going to court, if your own child was being spiteful and clearly hurting their own children by their actions, hypothetically?

I agree with Freds answer.
I would not drag my son or daughter through the courts to gain access if they had denied it to me.
Even if I won, it would harm relationships all round, and like Fred said ultimately they are the parents not you.

It isn't always that simple though - my eldest brother had a child when he was only 16 and the mother was 16 , she never wanted my nephew and so my mother and father brought him up . When he was 6 my brother met and married and she wanted sole custody of my nephew and only occasional visits from my parents , they took him to their new home and he was heartbroken he didn't settle he wanted his grandparents who he called mum and dad not nanna and granddad . There was quite a big argument about it and in the end my eldest brother agreed that in the interest of his son it was better to let him live with our parents .

Another example is recently a good friend has won access to her granddaughter because of a split , the mother denied all contact with the little girl and her grandparents and it affected the child so much that she stopped eating and got depressed because she had such a close bond with her grandparents.

She never saw her granddaughter for nine months and she went to court to gain access and was granted it for the welfare of the child . She sees her Tuesdays after school and one weekend a month . Sometimes it is necessary for the welfare of our grandchildren .

by Syl Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:21 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
Syl wrote:Thor asked..

Would you go as far as going to court, if your own child was being spiteful and clearly hurting their own children by their actions, hypothetically?

I agree with Freds answer.
I would not drag my son or daughter through the courts to gain access if they had denied it to me.
Even if I won, it would harm relationships all round, and like Fred said ultimately they are the parents not you.

It isn't always that simple though - my eldest brother had a child when he was only 16 and the mother was 16 , she never wanted my nephew and so my mother and father brought him up . When he was 6 my brother met and married and she wanted sole custody of my nephew and only occasional visits from my parents , they took him to their new home and he was heartbroken he didn't settle he wanted his grandparents who he called mum and dad not nanna and granddad . There was quite a big argument about it and in the end my eldest brother agreed that in the interest of his son it was better to let him live with our parents .

Another example is recently a good friend has won access to her granddaughter because of a split , the mother denied all contact with the little girl and her grandparents and it affected the child so much that she stopped eating and got depressed because she had such a close bond with her grandparents.

She never saw her granddaughter for nine months and she went to court to gain access and was granted it for the welfare of the child . She sees her Tuesdays after school and one weekend a month . Sometimes it is necessary for the welfare of our grandchildren .

Every case is different, I don't really think you can say for sure what you would do unless its happened to you.
I cant imagine life without my grandsons, thankfully I was never put in the position to have to fight to see them.

I suppose it depends on what stage of life they are and how well they know their grandparents....if the bond has already developed and then they are taken away it must be cruel beyond belief, for both grandchild and grandparent.

I think I will amend what I said before and admit then that I just don't know for sure what I would do... and thank God I don't. x

by Guest Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:55 pm

Syl wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

It isn't always that simple though - my eldest brother had a child when he was only 16 and the mother was 16 , she never wanted my nephew and so my mother and father brought him up . When he was 6 my brother met and married and she wanted sole custody of my nephew and only occasional visits from my parents , they took him to their new home and he was heartbroken he didn't settle he wanted his grandparents who he called mum and dad not nanna and granddad . There was quite a big argument about it and in the end my eldest brother agreed that in the interest of his son it was better to let him live with our parents .

Another example is recently a good friend has won access to her granddaughter because of a split , the mother denied all contact with the little girl and her grandparents and it affected the child so much that she stopped eating and got depressed because she had such a close bond with her grandparents.

She never saw her granddaughter for nine months and she went to court to gain access and was granted it for the welfare of the child . She sees her Tuesdays after school and one weekend a month . Sometimes it is necessary for the welfare of our grandchildren .
Every case is different, I don't really think you can say for sure what you would do unless its happened to you.
I cant imagine life without my grandsons, thankfully I was never put in the position to have to fight to see them.

I suppose it depends on what stage of life they are and how well they know their grandparents....if the bond has already developed and then they are taken away it must be cruel beyond belief, for both grandchild and grandparent.

I think I will amend what I said before and admit then that I just don't know for sure what I would do... and thank God I don't. x

That's the thing when you have a bond from birth like we do I see my grandson about four times a week but everyday before he started school and I know it would hurt him not to see me and my hubby . So although i have confidence it would never happen - I know for his welfare i would have to fight for him to see us . He sleeps over at weekends and looks forward to time with us so changing that would affect his life and welfare.
Yes thank God we don't have to even go down that line. x

by HoratioTarr Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:16 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Perhaps it's also more to do with how her father treated her mother. He cheated on her, and they split when Angelina was 12. She probably had to deal with her mother's pain and grief at that time, and that has a profound effect on you.

I think Angelina was a baby when they split.

Even more odd then. I read she was 12. Did they get back together again for a while? To hold such a grudge seems odd if that's the case. Unless he continually let her down as a father throughout her life. Some men do that.

by Syl Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:32 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
Syl wrote:
Every case is different, I don't really think you can say for sure what you would do unless its happened to you.
I cant imagine life without my grandsons, thankfully I was never put in the position to have to fight to see them.

I suppose it depends on what stage of life they are and how well they know their grandparents....if the bond has already developed and then they are taken away it must be cruel beyond belief, for both grandchild and grandparent.

I think I will amend what I said before and admit then that I just don't know for sure what I would do... and thank God I don't. x

That's the thing when you have a bond from birth like we do I see my grandson about four times a week but everyday before he started school and I know it would hurt him not to see me and my hubby . So although i have confidence it would never happen - I know for his welfare i would have to fight for him to see us . He sleeps over at weekends and looks forward to time with us so changing that would affect his life and welfare.
Yes thank God we don't have to even go down that line. x

We had a very similar relationship with our grandson when he was young as you do with yours....it's a brilliant stage of life for both of you.

Its so sad for grandparents when families move away...I have a friend who looked after her grand daughter for 4 years, then the mum and dad emigrated to Australia...and suddenly the grand daughter was gone. It was 4 years before she saw her again...and then only when she had saved enough to visit them for a couple of weeks.

by Raggamuffin Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:02 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I think Angelina was a baby when they split.

Even more odd then. I read she was 12. Did they get back together again for a while? To hold such a grudge seems odd if that's the case. Unless he continually let her down as a father throughout her life. Some men do that.

Dunno. I got it from Wiki.

There are probably a lot of issues going back for years, which only Angelina understands. JV speaking to the press about their personal issues probably doesn't help either.

by HoratioTarr Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:38 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Even more odd then. I read she was 12. Did they get back together again for a while? To hold such a grudge seems odd if that's the case. Unless he continually let her down as a father throughout her life. Some men do that.

Dunno. I got it from Wiki.

There are probably a lot of issues going back for years, which only Angelina understands. JV speaking to the press about their personal issues probably doesn't help either.

Didn't he suggest she had mental health issues? She is a bit odd though. Or at least she was. She's done drugs including heroin and wearing her partners blood round her neck.

by Syl Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:46 pm

Her first husband was on Graham Norton a couple of weeks ago...he looked really old, I was shocked.
I think the phials of blood were exchanged with her 2nd husband on their wedding day...he seemed a bit odd too.

I bet Brad, who at least seems normal, didn't know what had hit him when the initial love lust had faded. Shocked

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