Spice

Dead men and women were walking the streets of central Manchester this week. 
Some of them, their faces wan and eyes open, but filled with a terrible vacancy, stumble forward with arms out-stretched.
Others stand stock-still like shop mannequins, seemingly unconscious but upright, or slumped forward, as commuters scurry past with their heads down.
There were still more I spotted comatose on pavements or slumped in doorways. One young man in a grey tracksuit lolled on the steps outside McDonald’s, twitching and gibbering to himself.

Outside the Arndale Shopping Centre, I saw another youth passed out on his back, his arms and legs extended into the air as if rigor mortis had set in.
These are the victims of Spice, a generic term for various mixtures of herbs and potent chemicals which, until last May, was openly on sale in Britain as a so-called ‘legal high’.
Now, a powerful strain has emerged that produces a terrifying zombie-like effect in those who smoke it. It is estimated that up to 95 per cent of the young homeless in Manchester are using it, many of them hopelessly addicted.
Drug experts are warning of a Spice epidemic that is spreading from the North-West, driving a wave of crime and casualties that the police and emergency services are struggling to cope with.
‘[Spice] has the physically addictive qualities of heroin and the psychologically addictive qualities of crack,’ says Robert Ralphs, senior lecturer in criminology at the University of Manchester and an expert on the drug.
The crisis came to national attention this week following the publication of video footage, shot by an office worker in Manchester, showing people under its influence. 
Photographs published in the Mail, taken by a bus driver who was alarmed by what he was seeing along his route each day in Wrexham in North Wales, further underlined this developing threat.





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4302806/Spice-synthetic-drug-turns-users-living-dead.html

I was out last night myself in Manchester City Centre, and saw one of these shambling wrecks for myself.   How terribly sad that you get yourself in this state because your life is so shit.   There should be no homeless on our streets in this day and age.

"...Black Mamba is a variation of Spice, a synthetic cannabinoid which has similar effects to natural cannabis..."


I read somewhere that ambulances are regularly called out to prisons to deal with users of this...

The other prisoners joke that 'there's another one taken away in the "mambulance"...'

Where do these drugs come from in the first place?
Always wonder that.

It's a derivative form of cannabis. It's just entrepreneurial chemistry.

eddie wrote:Where do these drugs come from in the first place?
Always wonder that.

If you mean the country of origin, I looked into it and China and Russia are the leading exporters.

eddie wrote:Where do these drugs come from in the first place?
Always wonder that.

spice was a legal high created to mimic cannabis, it has been enhanced somewhat and is now illegal.

seems the report mentions Manchester......

how the hell did they even notice??

Manchester is the LAND of the living dead....

Over the years, I have seen literally thousands of different people enjoy a smoke of a bit of hash/weed, and the subsequent effects of it on them and their behaviours etc...


And it has never been anything like what is shown here in op!!!

this aint yer common "weed" though tommy this stuff is nasty as in NASTY

It's not weed... That's why!

exactly..its synthetic....

but like i said...how the hell did they notice victims in Manchester, I mean, they would hardly stand out from the crowd would they?

Wow the horror?
The perception is some people are spaced out on drugs to get a high. Many know what effects these drugs will do. 

Good luck to them, its their bodies and they can do what ever they want with them. When people stop taking anything that is harmful for their bodies, then you can have an argument.

Until then

I have heard that it is popular in prisons because it doesn't show up on the regular drug testing results... whereas cannabis can show up in your system for up to a month after using...



But back to op... these people look comatose/catatonic... and laid out on floors and streets in public...!


I know your average hash/weed smoker would never be seen dead like that!!!


They would be laid back in a comfy chair indoors playing music/playstation/watching a good film etc and/or kicking back while having a good laugh with friends etc... with plenty of tasty munch to hand...

So they are more horizontal than weed smokers and you gauging a difference here?

The Daily Mail is doing what it does best, its war against drugs on opinion.

Until you try the drug, people are just offering what they perceive people to be like. If people are addictive and it creates problems, then help is needed, but there is no endemic here. A poor story for those who want to continue to criminalize people who in the main want to have fun.

This drub seems tame compared to some I know of.

Thorin wrote:Wow the horror?
The perception is some people are spaced out on drugs to get a high. Many know what effects these drugs will do. 

Good luck to them, its their bodies and they can do what ever they want with them. When people stop taking anything that is harmful for their bodies, then you can have an argument.

Until then

untill then leave em to snuff it.........

see lets take smokers for an example...THEY (collectively) paid far more in, in terms of duty revenue, than they would ever cost in treatment should they be unlucky enough to suffer any consequences...
the same could be said for the alki , revenue from alcohol sales far out weighs the cost of dealing with the consequences.....

illegal drug users...nah....

and the above difference IS a very important distinction....

Lord Foul wrote:

Thorin wrote:Wow the horror?
The perception is some people are spaced out on drugs to get a high. Many know what effects these drugs will do. 

Good luck to them, its their bodies and they can do what ever they want with them. When people stop taking anything that is harmful for their bodies, then you can have an argument.

Until then

untill then leave em to snuff it.........

see lets take smokers for an example...THEY (collectively) paid far more in, in terms of duty revenue, than they would ever cost in treatment should they be unlucky enough to suffer any consequences...
the same could be said for the alki , revenue from alcohol sales far out weighs the cost of dealing with the consequences.....

illegal drug users...nah....

and the above difference IS a very important distinction....

And what did you pay from the ages of 0-18 or after that every time you went to the hospital, the dentist until it became private? So if you become ill because of your meat intake, of which there is a higher risk of many illnesses. Does that mean I should then castigate you because of your choices here mate?

There is no distinction here, you just choose to see one view with bias

Now, make it legal and safer.

Would it then be a problem?

yes because some drugs cannot be made "safe"

either due to their direct effect OR because of the vicious addictivness of them....

there are a lot of issues of this nature though

like fior instance mountain rescue....

if a propely equipped person in a suitably trained party needs asistance then fine...free it is

if the victim is under equipped/not or poorly trained...then charge em the whole cost of the rescue

(hint...personal responsibility)

and eating meat or anything else is a red herring....there is no evidence that the veggie diet is of itself "safe" (soya products are bad for men ...go read about it) and most veggies are mal nourished enough to be walking plague areas...
and the 0-18 argument is another of your frequent red herrings....

why? because the rate of taxation/ni etc is calculated so that parents indeed everyone carries a samll part of the cost of rearing the nations young.... so its irrelevant.....

also I didnt start smoking under 18...

1) If people are taking them and are not dead or slowing dying, then they are safe. To say no drug cannot be made safe is a copout and you know it.

2) You really are scraping the barrel now mate, mountain rescue? Give me a break and people not on drugs do not end up this way when sober?>

Point easily flawed

The victim is easily unequipped when "compos mentis", as fear generally takes over.

I never said a veggie diet is better, what I did rightly say is that eating red meat does cause illnesses, did i not? And those on mainly veggie diets in Asia live longer, that is a fact.

So this is why your argument is so flawed, you made it redundent, as I can counter anything you come up with here. As again its based on misdirection. As it ignores red meat harms humans. Which is no different from someone being allergic to meat with someone being allergic to the drug they use. You won't know until you try. Long term use on each will do harm. Each will react different dependent on the individual ( hence the bias of the Mail, when it takes pictures as if all people act off this on the drug).

So again you want to punish people for taking something they paid for, that you don't even want to attempt to make safe, even though we do attempt to, with even smoking. Or even tax the product. You would rather offer up, what I can only describe as poor confirmation bias excuses.

Not based off any research, but off only one media article and one claim from someone who works in the homeless on its drug use.

Thorin wrote:1) If people are taking them and are not dead or slowing dying, then they are safe. To say no drug cannot be made safe is a copout and you know it.

2) You really are scraping the barrel now mate, mountain rescue? Give me a break and people not on drugs do not end up this way when sober?>

Point easily flawed

The victim is easily unequipped when "compos mentis", as fear generally takes over.

I never said a veggie diet is better, what I did rightly say is that eating red meat does cause illnesses, did i not? And those on mainly veggie diets in Asia live longer, that is a fact.

So this is why your argument is so flawed, you made it redundent, as I can counter anything you come up with here. As again its based on misdirection. As it ignores red meat harms humans. Which is no different from someone being allergic to meat with someone being allergic to the drug they use. You won't know until you try. Long term use on each will do harm. Each will react different dependent on the individual ( hence the bias of the Mail, when it takes pictures as if all people act off this on the drug).

So again you want to punish people for taking something they paid for, that you don't even want to attempt to make safe, even though we do attempt to, with even smoking. Or even tax the product. You would rather offer up, what I can only describe as poor confirmation bias excuses.

Not based off any research, but off only one media article and one claim from someone who works in the homeless on its drug use.

1 ....bull shit... a drug that renders people "zombies" cannot be made safe....(and it aint just the DM...this subject was talked about in missives from russia about 2-3 years back as far as I can remember..certainly I have heard about it before now.....)
2 no misdirection...I would hope most people needing rescuing HAVNT been on the piss or stoned, the point was relevant merely in terms of personal responsibility.

"so does eating veggie diet"....OH and cut the baloney about asian diets...... they are NOT generally "veggie"..they generally tend to have a lot of fish in the diet too.. (which probably IS better than red meat) However the "western" veggie diet IS (or can be depending on what you put in it) problematical..as said the "favourite" of veggies . soya...is well known to cause issues

are you suggesting that these zombies are merely allergy victims then....LOL....its oviously a highly allergenic compound then..... (hint...the general rate for allergies..even including asthema sufferers and hay fever sufferers is a very small percent of the population for any given allergen

I dont, even in the worst of hay fever seasons see 100's of sneezing streaming eyed sufferers in one small area...

and brutally enough NO I dont want to "try to make it safer"...that costs money...a LOT of money, and quite frankly, if the money is there to do so, I would rather it spent on accelerating and facilitatiting if not a cure , a solution for cancer that takes it from killer to embuggerance

1) So alcohol is not safe then to you and should be made illegal.
Implement sharia law Lord Foul style.
You lost the argument, as again people can be so pissed. They end up in a wheelie bin and be found on a skip site (current news).
How horizontal is that for you?

2) Hope?
Sorry, no drug is more powerful than adrenaline. Its flight or fight, as you well know and can create far greater risks, when trying to save someone. So someone horizontal, is going to be far less a risk, than someone if in frightened mode sober or not taking drugs

Point easily dismissed.

3) I could not care about your views on veggies. Sorry mate.
Does the fact that eating red meat increase the risk of health problems?

Yes

4) I am not suggesting anything. I reckon some are horizontal and some are not. You have taken for granted every person that takes this drug, loses all form of control. That is a tad naive off you off one report, dont you think?

5) So if you don;t want to make it safer, then we should stop producing meat, as red meat is one of the biggest causes of heart disease and we cant make that safer now can we mate?

Like I said, you formed a poor confirmation bias on this and even worse ended up forming a view to ban red meat.

Thorin wrote:So they are more horizontal than weed smokers and you gauging a difference here?

The Daily Mail is doing what it does best, its war against drugs on opinion.

Until you try the drug, people are just offering what they perceive people to be like. If people are addictive and it creates problems, then help is needed, but there is no endemic here. A poor story for those who want to continue to criminalize people who in the main want to have fun.

This drub seems tame compared to some I know of.

Doesn't look like much fun... and not something that people should have to be seeing while walking round the shops in their normal everyday lives!


And how is this drug 'tame'...?

When a little puff of it puts you on the floor in a completely catatonic zombie state for an hour or more...!?

The users might appear to be 'tame' as they are hardly any risk to anyone whilst zombied out... but the drug certainly isn't tame to be putting them into such a vulnerable state like that!


I can only think of a small number of comparisons...

1) you'd have to have drunk a hell of a lot of booze to be passed out like that...

2) a heroin addict might have had a big fix and curled up in a corner somewhere for a while... but you wouldn't see them laying across the shopping centre floor etc...

3) I've heard that ketamin (horse tranquilliser) can maybe put people in a similar 'out cold' state... but I've heard that although it can put you on the floor, you also retain some clarity of vision/awareness... it has been described to me as feeling like 'a puddle with eyes'...!!!


4) the only other thing I can think of that is anywhere near to the op, but a much milder version, is one time years ago when I went round somewhere with a friend for some reason or another... and there was a couple of 'space cadets' gouched out on one of the sofas over the other side of the room... I later found out they were out of it on 'tamazipam' (known as 'yellow eggs')... but even these two twats were alive and talking and aware of what was happening etc...!


Didge... I'd be interested to know what drugs you think are less tame than this spice stuff!?


Salvia dividorum...?

You tube some people on it to see some madness!!!

And there you have a prime example of someone who has no idea of the drug, states many things off this from reading an article.

Okay Tommy.

Lets do a test here.

A Mild Drug

Have you ever taken speed?

Thorin wrote:And there you have a prime example of someone who has no idea of the drug, states many things off this from reading an article.

Okay Tommy.

Lets do a test here.

A Mild Drug

Have you ever taken speed?

A mild drug...!?

I know someone who has been ruined by the stuff!!!

He's been doing it for about 25 years... lightly/recreationally at first... but all the time over last 15+ years... and I mean ALL THE TIME!!!

He's skinny as a rake... no teeth left as they all rotted and had to be removed... not had a proper job in 20 years... he's awake for 5-6 days&nights a week and then only sleeps when he crashes and the speed stops working in keeping him awake!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thorin wrote:And there you have a prime example of someone who has no idea of the drug, states many things off this from reading an article.

Okay Tommy.

Lets do a test here.

A Mild Drug

Have you ever taken speed?

A mild drug...!?

I know someone who has been ruined by the stuff!!!

He's been doing it for about 25 years... lightly/recreationally at first... but all the time over last 15+ years... and I mean ALL THE TIME!!!

He's skinny as a rake... no teeth left as they all rotted and had to be removed... not had a proper job in 20 years... he's awake for 5-6 days&nights a week and then only sleeps when he crashes and the speed stops working in keeping him awake!!!

So you have never done even this mild drug

I know many that have, with or without drink and when they come off that buzz, guess what happens Tommy?

I never said I'd never done speed before Didge...


I said speed isn't the 'mild drug' that you were trying to claim...


I asked you what drugs you thought there are that make spice look tame?

Tommy Monk wrote:I never said I'd never done speed before Didge...


I said speed isn't the 'mild drug' that you were trying to claim...


I asked you what drugs you thought there are that make spice look tame?

Speed is mild Tommy

And I asked you what people are like after they come down off speed?

You should know if your friend does this??????

Still waiting

You said spice is tame... and speed is mild...


I asked you what drugs were out there that you thought made spice look tame in comparison...?

Tommy Monk wrote:You said spice is tame... and speed is mild...


I asked you what drugs were out there that you thought made spice look tame in comparison...?

No I said speed is mild and asked you questions on this.

So, are you saying you lied again on now an imaginary friend who took speed for 25 years?

Surely you would know, what he was like when he came down off this?

Thorin wrote:So they are more horizontal than weed smokers and you gauging a difference here?

The Daily Mail is doing what it does best, its war against drugs on opinion.

Until you try the drug, people are just offering what they perceive people to be like. If people are addictive and it creates problems, then help is needed, but there is no endemic here. A poor story for those who want to continue to criminalize people who in the main want to have fun.

This drub seems tame compared to some I know of.

And I've been asking what drugs you think make spice look tame in comparison?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thorin wrote:So they are more horizontal than weed smokers and you gauging a difference here?

The Daily Mail is doing what it does best, its war against drugs on opinion.

Until you try the drug, people are just offering what they perceive people to be like. If people are addictive and it creates problems, then help is needed, but there is no endemic here. A poor story for those who want to continue to criminalize people who in the main want to have fun.

This drub seems tame compared to some I know of.

And I've been asking what drugs you think make spice look tame in comparison?

Its is tame compared to Peyote for example.
Smoked that and drank this with tea with some native Indians.
I have also done Ayahuasca in my youth.
So I know you are deflecting and lying again about your friend.

As you should be able to answer my questions.

Now I am going to bed

Night

I don't lie... I don't exaggerate... and I don't make stuff up.

What would be the point of doing so here... on a little known/obscure and anonymous Internet forum such as this...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:I don't lie... I don't exaggerate... and I don't make stuff up.

What would be the point of doing so here... on a little known/obscure and anonymous Internet forum such as this...!?

You lie all the time. Or have you finally admitted that the Washington Post article you claimed said that the Düsseldorf axe attacker is Muslim actually said no such thing?

Tommy Monk wrote:I don't lie... I don't exaggerate... and I don't make stuff up.

What would be the point of doing so here... on a little known/obscure and anonymous Internet forum such as this...!?

You claim you have a friend who has been on this for 25 years and cannot ansswer a simple question I asked on this very drug?

You must be lying

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thorin wrote:So they are more horizontal than weed smokers and you gauging a difference here?

The Daily Mail is doing what it does best, its war against drugs on opinion.

Until you try the drug, people are just offering what they perceive people to be like. If people are addictive and it creates problems, then help is needed, but there is no endemic here. A poor story for those who want to continue to criminalize people who in the main want to have fun.

This drub seems tame compared to some I know of.

Doesn't look like much fun... and not something that people should have to be seeing while walking round the shops in their normal everyday lives!


And how is this drug 'tame'...?

When a little puff of it puts you on the floor in a completely catatonic zombie state for an hour or more...!?

The users might appear to be 'tame' as they are hardly any risk to anyone whilst zombied out... but the drug certainly isn't tame to be putting them into such a vulnerable state like that!


I can only think of a small number of comparisons...

1) you'd have to have drunk a hell of a lot of booze to be passed out like that...

2) a heroin addict might have had a big fix and curled up in a corner somewhere for a while... but you wouldn't see them laying across the shopping centre floor etc...

3) I've heard that ketamin (horse tranquilliser) can maybe put people in a similar 'out cold' state... but I've heard that although it can put you on the floor, you also retain some clarity of vision/awareness... it has been described to me as feeling like 'a puddle with eyes'...!!!


4) the only other thing I can think of that is anywhere near to the op, but a much milder version, is one time years ago when I went round somewhere with a friend for some reason or another... and there was a couple of 'space cadets' gouched out on one of the sofas over the other side of the room... I later found out they were out of it on 'tamazipam' (known as 'yellow eggs')... but even these two twats were alive and talking and aware of what was happening etc...!


Didge... I'd be interested to know what drugs you think are less tame than this spice stuff!?


Salvia dividorum...?

You tube some people on it to see some madness!!!

I've never taken Ketamine, but I know people who have, and I've watched them take it.   It's like watching someone kill themselves.    The infamous 'Ket hole' is just that.   An abyss that leaves you a drooling, gurning mess.   You stand rooted to the spot, swaying and grimacing and grinning.  You look for all the world like someone with extreme brain damage.    If someone decided to attack you, then you'd be helpless.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Doesn't look like much fun... and not something that people should have to be seeing while walking round the shops in their normal everyday lives!


And how is this drug 'tame'...?

When a little puff of it puts you on the floor in a completely catatonic zombie state for an hour or more...!?

The users might appear to be 'tame' as they are hardly any risk to anyone whilst zombied out... but the drug certainly isn't tame to be putting them into such a vulnerable state like that!


I can only think of a small number of comparisons...

1) you'd have to have drunk a hell of a lot of booze to be passed out like that...

2) a heroin addict might have had a big fix and curled up in a corner somewhere for a while... but you wouldn't see them laying across the shopping centre floor etc...

3) I've heard that ketamin (horse tranquilliser) can maybe put people in a similar 'out cold' state... but I've heard that although it can put you on the floor, you also retain some clarity of vision/awareness... it has been described to me as feeling like 'a puddle with eyes'...!!!


4) the only other thing I can think of that is anywhere near to the op, but a much milder version, is one time years ago when I went round somewhere with a friend for some reason or another... and there was a couple of 'space cadets' gouched out on one of the sofas over the other side of the room... I later found out they were out of it on 'tamazipam' (known as 'yellow eggs')... but even these two twats were alive and talking and aware of what was happening etc...!


Didge... I'd be interested to know what drugs you think are less tame than this spice stuff!?


Salvia dividorum...?

You tube some people on it to see some madness!!!

I've never taken Ketamine, but I know people who have, and I've watched them take it.   It's like watching someone kill themselves.    The infamous 'Ket hole' is just that.   An abyss that leaves you a drooling, gurning mess.   You stand rooted to the spot, swaying and grimacing and grinning.  You look for all the world like someone with extreme brain damage.    If someone decided to attack you, then you'd be helpless.

Judge Lindsey Kushner Accused Of Victim-Blaming After Saying Women Women ‘Get Drunk And Risk Rape’

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/judge-lindsey-kushner-victim-blaming-rape-women-alcohol_uk_58c3e0cbe4b0ed71826cf8b5?utm_hp_ref=uk

Two poor arguments

Thorin wrote:So they are more horizontal than weed smokers and you gauging a difference here?

The Daily Mail is doing what it does best, its war against drugs on opinion.

Until you try the drug, people are just offering what they perceive people to be like. If people are addictive and it creates problems, then help is needed, but there is no endemic here. A poor story for those who want to continue to criminalize people who in the main want to have fun.

This drub seems tame compared to some I know of.

The story didn't come from The Daily Mail.  It originally came from an article in the Manchester Metro.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Thorin wrote:So they are more horizontal than weed smokers and you gauging a difference here?

The Daily Mail is doing what it does best, its war against drugs on opinion.

Until you try the drug, people are just offering what they perceive people to be like. If people are addictive and it creates problems, then help is needed, but there is no endemic here. A poor story for those who want to continue to criminalize people who in the main want to have fun.

This drub seems tame compared to some I know of.

The story didn't come from The Daily Mail.  It originally came from an article in the Manchester Metro.

Does not matter, as the article is based off the views of one Homeless official.

Again its up to people what they do with their bodies.

Thorin wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

I've never taken Ketamine, but I know people who have, and I've watched them take it.   It's like watching someone kill themselves.    The infamous 'Ket hole' is just that.   An abyss that leaves you a drooling, gurning mess.   You stand rooted to the spot, swaying and grimacing and grinning.  You look for all the world like someone with extreme brain damage.    If someone decided to attack you, then you'd be helpless.

Judge Lindsey Kushner Accused Of Victim-Blaming After Saying Women Women ‘Get Drunk And Risk Rape’

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/judge-lindsey-kushner-victim-blaming-rape-women-alcohol_uk_58c3e0cbe4b0ed71826cf8b5?utm_hp_ref=uk

Two poor arguments

What are you blathering about now?    This has nothing to do with  rape and women.

I've seen and taken some drugs in my time but this stuff looks horrid. I've seen people on both drugs that Horatio and Tommy mentioned - Ketamine and Tamazipam (green eggs not yellow) - and they were drooling and floppy and totally messed up.

I wouldn't touch that shit. Same with crack, it's addictive and messes up your mind and body.

Thorin wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

The story didn't come from The Daily Mail.  It originally came from an article in the Manchester Metro.

Does not matter, as the article is based off the views of one Homeless official.

Again its up to people what they do with their bodies.

Like some people choose to use holistic medicine instead of chemo, you mean?

HoratioTarr wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Does not matter, as the article is based off the views of one Homeless official.

Again its up to people what they do with their bodies.

Like some people choose to use holistic medicine instead of chemo, you mean?

Its up to them to use, never have been against that.
I am against those who peddle quackery and manipulate people.

Thorin wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Like some people choose to use holistic medicine instead of chemo, you mean?

Its up to them to use, never have been against that.
I am against those who peddle quackery and manipulate people.

You mean, like the Spice drug dealers selling to these poor saps?

HoratioTarr wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Judge Lindsey Kushner Accused Of Victim-Blaming After Saying Women Women ‘Get Drunk And Risk Rape’

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/judge-lindsey-kushner-victim-blaming-rape-women-alcohol_uk_58c3e0cbe4b0ed71826cf8b5?utm_hp_ref=uk

Two poor arguments

What are you blathering about now?    This has nothing to do with  rape and women.

You made a victim blaming argument

Its poor.

Is Rape not a form of attack as well?

HoratioTarr wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Its up to them to use, never have been against that.
I am against those who peddle quackery and manipulate people.

You mean, like the Spice drug dealers selling to these poor saps?

Are they selling them as medical cures for cancer?

No

They are selling them for people to get high.

If that is what they want to do, then so be it.

Its none of your business.

Didge to be fair you're sounding a bit like you have no idea what you're arguing about now. Of course nothing on this forum that's about other people is our business then??? That's a silly argument really.

eddie wrote:Didge to be fair you're sounding a bit like you have no idea what you're arguing about now.  Of course nothing on this forum that's about other people is our business then??? That's a silly argument really.

Do you eat what people tell you to eat or do you decide for yourself Eddie?
Do you stop smoking if someone tells you it is harming you?

Of course not.

So how am I not knowing what I am talking about.

Every argument presented here is hypocritical

eddie wrote:I've seen and taken some drugs in my time but this stuff looks horrid. I've seen people on both drugs that Horatio and Tommy mentioned - Ketamine and Tamazipam (green eggs not yellow) - and they were drooling and floppy and totally messed up.

I wouldn't touch that shit. Same with crack, it's addictive and messes up your mind and body.

I think they were yellow originally... and formula (and colour) was changed to stop them being injectable...

Tommy Monk wrote:

eddie wrote:I've seen and taken some drugs in my time but this stuff looks horrid. I've seen people on both drugs that Horatio and Tommy mentioned - Ketamine and Tamazipam (green eggs not yellow) - and they were drooling and floppy and totally messed up.

I wouldn't touch that shit. Same with crack, it's addictive and messes up your mind and body.

I think they were yellow originally... and formula (and colour) was changed to stop them being injectable...

No idea. I'm going back about twenty years.

Tommy Monk wrote:I don't lie... I don't exaggerate... and I don't make stuff up.[/b]

What would be the point of doing so here... on a little known/obscure and anonymous Internet forum such as this...!?

That might well be,  .... but you have a deliberately obtuse style of debating,  which is almost as bad as lying and inventing stuff. Usually a lie can be seen for what it is, by others, and can be fairly easily shown to be a lie. But your strange style of obtuseness is impenetrable,  there is no way or thru it, or round it.  You deliberately  frustrate anyone who attempts to argue with you. IMO that is just as disingenuous as fibbing.

I will provide a typical example later, if I have time.