Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

eddie wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
oh get off your high horse.
You are always giving your 2 pennath.

but at least we are clear that people who post here are not allowed to criticise the collective.

I'm not asking you not to give your opinion Dean - read the above properly.

do make up your mind

"don't come over here and start getting involved with how this site is run." rather says the opposite.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Dean, I don't know where you get off criticizing Ben.  He runs a superb site here.  He selects excellent people, who understand their own regional areas, and carry out their responsibilities in fine fashion.  

I've never been on your site, but just because Ben does an excellent job at delegating is no reason for criticism.  He has an excellent sense of organization and frankly, he doesn't clog the place up with personal vendettas.

he runs nothing, he allows others to do HIS job because he is too lazy to do the simple job himself. This forum could run itself and does not need 2 mods let alone the plethora it has. Nothing that is said or done could not wait a few hours to be dealt with. And then it could be done consistently by one chief.

Maybe some of the people here are too vile to be left alone and need a nanny.

Google wrote:del·e·ga·tion
ˌdeləˈɡāSH(ə)n/

The act or process of delegating or being delegated.
"prioritizing tasks for delegation"
synonyms: assignment, entrusting, giving, devolution, deputation, transference
"the delegation of tasks to others"

Syl wrote:Nicko snored.
Handy Andy made a really nasty post.
Others posted their distaste.
Clingons came over to back HA up.
Thread got heated.
HA apologised.
Nicko accepted.  


So why is Eddie under fire?

Angry Andy wrote:Dean cannot deal with opposing views.
He simply bans posters with them. Such as myself, Sassy, Scrat, Korben Dallas.
His site has had countless complaints to forumotion and several censures. 
He only wants posters who agree with his far right/alt right/Muslim hating views. Hence his membership is largely dominated by people who support those views.
It is difficult to understand his motives for coming here apparently just to disrupt, not to debate.
"Oh, I agree Hugh".
"So do I , Stevie".

nicko wrote:I did accept.

Angry Andy wrote:Dean cannot deal with opposing views.
He simply bans posters with them. Such as myself, Sassy, Scrat, Korben Dallas.
His site has had countless complaints to forumotion and several censures. 
He only wants posters who agree with his far right/alt right/Muslim hating views. Hence his membership was and presumably still is largely dominated by people who support those views.
It is difficult to understand his motives for coming here apparently just to disrupt, not to debate.
"Oh, I agree Hugh".
"So do I , Stevie".

Angry Andy wrote:Dean cannot deal with opposing views.
He simply bans posters with them. Such as myself, Sassy, Scrat, Korben Dallas.
His site has had countless complaints to forumotion and several censures. 
He only wants posters who agree with his far right/alt right/Muslim hating views. Hence his membership was and presumably still is largely dominated by people who support those views.
It is difficult to understand his motives for coming here apparently just to disrupt, not to debate.
"Oh, I agree Hugh".
"So do I , Stevie".

Original Quill wrote:

Angry Andy wrote:Dean cannot deal with opposing views.
He simply bans posters with them. Such as myself, Sassy, Scrat, Korben Dallas.
His site has had countless complaints to forumotion and several censures. 
He only wants posters who agree with his far right/alt right/Muslim hating views. Hence his membership is largely dominated by people who support those views.
It is difficult to understand his motives for coming here apparently just to disrupt, not to debate.
"Oh, I agree Hugh".
"So do I , Stevie".

I don't mind Dean coming over here.  He's got the balls to say things that prompt discussion.

Just that...it's our job to answer back.

On his criticism of Ben's management style, he's arguing against the goose that lays the golden egg.  See...he's over here because he's not over there.  Even he craves a little diversity.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Angry Andy wrote:Dean cannot deal with opposing views.
He simply bans posters with them. Such as myself, Sassy, Scrat, Korben Dallas.
His site has had countless complaints to forumotion and several censures. 
He only wants posters who agree with his far right/alt right/Muslim hating views. Hence his membership was and presumably still is largely dominated by people who support those views.
It is difficult to understand his motives for coming here apparently just to disrupt, not to debate.
"Oh, I agree Hugh".
"So do I , Stevie".

With respect...complete and utter tosh. If you feel you can produce any "Muslim hating" or "far right" views  posted by me, please do so.

I can certainly produce some absolute filth posted by the Far Left on Dean's site, and by one of the poor innocents you name, if you wish.

Thorin wrote:

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

With respect...complete and utter tosh. If you feel you can produce any "Muslim hating" or "far right" views  posted by me, please do so.

I can certainly produce some absolute filth posted by the Far Left on Dean's site, and by one of the poor innocents you name, if you wish.

To be fair to Andy here, Fred, you are wrongly reading, based off what he has claimed on Dean and not you.
Its in regards to Dean and claiming who he would want on his site. He then clarifies, its not everyone on that site, by stating very clearly its "largely dominated". 

Which means, not all on there would be classed as Far Right.
Now I will back you a 100% and state, you have never held Far Right views or held any prejudice against any group of people. In fact I think you share very similar center right politics as I do. You are critical more of ideas, beliefs, a political body etc, not people based on their sexuality, gender, ethnicity, class, ect. You clearly back as I do the belief to all having equality under the law.

Now I would disagree with Andy, to his claim of largely. 
As Nicko, Fatbob, yourself, Gelico, Costa, Flix, Eddie, Victor, Syl, Harvesmum, Nems are clearly not Far Right. Its clear there is more RW posters, than, left, but Dean, whether inadvertently or not, does attract those with Far Right Views, providing them with a comfort zone to spout off in. Thus, clearly from the few who are Far Right on there, the threads are dominated by Far right views from threads started.

Now I do not even think Dean is far Right, but he is trading further down that road, with his blind cult worship of Trump.

So I think you misread what Andy was claiming, as its not directed at you, and even more so I do not agree with his claim.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Thorin wrote:


To be fair to Andy here, Fred, you are wrongly reading, based off what he has claimed on Dean and not you.
Its in regards to Dean and claiming who he would want on his site. He then clarifies, its not everyone on that site, by stating very clearly its "largely dominated". 

Which means, not all on there would be classed as Far Right.
Now I will back you a 100% and state, you have never held Far Right views or held any prejudice against any group of people. In fact I think you share very similar center right politics as I do. You are critical more of ideas, beliefs, a political body etc, not people based on their sexuality, gender, ethnicity, class, ect. You clearly back as I do the belief to all having equality under the law.

Now I would disagree with Andy, to his claim of largely. 
As Nicko, Fatbob, yourself, Gelico, Costa, Flix, Eddie, Victor, Syl, Harvesmum, Nems are clearly not Far Right. Its clear there is more RW posters, than, left, but Dean, whether inadvertently or not, does attract those with Far Right Views, providing them with a comfort zone to spout off in. Thus, clearly from the few who are Far Right on there, the threads are dominated by Far right views from threads started.

Now I do not even think Dean is far Right, but he is trading further down that road, with his blind cult worship of Trump.

So I think you misread what Andy was claiming, as its not directed at you, and even more so I do not agree with his claim.

my support, if you can call it that, for trump is more to do with keeping that evil bitch clinton out of power.
Oh yes and getting those delicious snowflake tears that taste so fine.

As to right or left, I am fine with either viewpoint being made over there. I would love more on the left to come as it is so easy to expose the failure of their political viewpoint these days.
the thing is the left are far less tolerant of others than any other group around.

the far right are knobheads in the main as are the far left. The EDL and the UAF for instance are two sides of the same coin and deserve all the ridicule they can get.

The sad thing today is there is no opposition party in britian and governments always work better when there is an effective opposition.

That said I am absolutely delighted that corbyn will be almost single handedly driving labour out of existence in 2020, if he can last that long of course,That may well depend on whether MaoDonnels amendment to labour rules get passed and the requirements for getting on any leadership ballot is reduced to just 13 mp's.

Mind you some of those far lefts loons might find that a bit of a struggle. Labour, if they survive will have to spend years rooting out the infiltrators, who are much the same as militant tendency from the 80's. I am not sure they will manage it this time before they become a rump party like the lib dems.  

Labour may well just become a party of the metropolitan elites and have little showing in the rest of the country.

here we are half way through a parliament, after 7 years of austerity and the tories are still 15, 16 or 18 points ahead.
Even the most generous margins of error in the polls would still mean labour facing a whitewash.
of course 2½years is a long time in politics and things could change, but the best we could expect I feel is a labour/snp/libdem/plaidcymru/sinn fein coalition and that would be most amusing to watch.

I think the lefts time is over for quite some time in much of the world as the sheeple have caught on to the fact that they never end up any better off with a left wing government.

Eilzel wrote:Dean, for all your criticism of this forum, it is faring much better than Flap. The diversity of views here is leagues ahead. I still look in on Flap but it is generally a rant by one poster followed by agreement. Only fatbob offers any real alternative. No one challenges than increasingly racist and homophobic posts of major and blackie. I would jump on a thread but whenever I do it is met with nonsense and vulgarity by the usual suspects. No content, just idiocy.

The mods here try to keep things reasonable. It is not always easy, but better than the awful free for all you allow which just lowers the tone to current White House levels. Hence a large mod team here- and all the more successful for it.

Now as you are obviously here because you want real debate, why not just do that, instead of trying to pick apart the competition.

Thorin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Dean, for all your criticism of this forum, it is faring much better than Flap. The diversity of views here is leagues ahead. I still look in on Flap but it is generally a rant by one poster followed by agreement. Only fatbob offers any real alternative. No one challenges than increasingly racist and homophobic posts of major and blackie. I would jump on a thread but whenever I do it is met with nonsense and vulgarity by the usual suspects. No content, just idiocy.

The mods here try to keep things reasonable. It is not always easy, but better than the awful free for all you allow which just lowers the tone to current White House levels. Hence a large mod team here- and all the more successful for it.

Now as you are obviously here because you want real debate, why not just do that, instead of trying to pick apart the competition.

are you saying you cannot offer a counterpoint?
it's easier to avoid confrontation?

+1


You have to remember Eilzel, this is also a sales pitch for Dean, to garner people to join.
He already has people, he fails to see, as you said. As people are already put off with the hate. Where then I said, he fails to condemn. Thus being in complicity, by then allowing it to stand unchallenged.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Thorin wrote:
are you saying you cannot offer a counterpoint?
it's easier to avoid confrontation?

+1


You have to remember Eilzel, this is also a sales pitch for Dean, to garner people to join.
He already has people, he fails to see, as you said. As people are already put off with the hate. Where then I said, he fails to condemn. Thus being in complicity, by then allowing it to stand unchallenged.

are you saying you cannot offer a counterpoint?
it's easier to avoid confrontation?

Thorin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Dean, for all your criticism of this forum, it is faring much better than Flap. The diversity of views here is leagues ahead. I still look in on Flap but it is generally a rant by one poster followed by agreement. Only fatbob offers any real alternative. No one challenges than increasingly racist and homophobic posts of major and blackie. I would jump on a thread but whenever I do it is met with nonsense and vulgarity by the usual suspects. No content, just idiocy.

The mods here try to keep things reasonable. It is not always easy, but better than the awful free for all you allow which just lowers the tone to current White House levels. Hence a large mod team here- and all the more successful for it.

Now as you are obviously here because you want real debate, why not just do that, instead of trying to pick apart the competition.

sorry if it's a sales pitch then perhaps people like you and andwew should stop bringing it up. the only time I mention it is in response to the bollox being spouted by people with their own axe to grind.

I know I kicked you out, but get over it and move on. you were just the same about this place when they kicked you out. they were foolish enough to let you back in in. I want make that mistake twice.

+1


You have to remember Eilzel, this is also a sales pitch for Dean, to garner people to join.
He already has people, he fails to see, as you said. As people are already put off with the hate. Where then I said, he fails to condemn. Thus being in complicity, by then allowing it to stand unchallenged.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Thorin wrote:




+1


You have to remember Eilzel, this is also a sales pitch for Dean, to garner people to join.
He already has people, he fails to see, as you said. As people are already put off with the hate. Where then I said, he fails to condemn. Thus being in complicity, by then allowing it to stand unchallenged.

sorry if it's a sales pitch then perhaps people like you and andwew should stop bringing it up. the only time I mention it is in response to the bollox being spouted by people with their own axe to grind.
I know I kicked you out, but get over it and move on. you were just the same about this place when they kicked you out. they were foolish enough to let you back in in. I want make that mistake twice.

Eilzel wrote:Dean, for all your criticism of this forum, it is faring much better than Flap. The diversity of views here is leagues ahead. I still look in on Flap but it is generally a rant by one poster followed by agreement. Only fatbob offers any real alternative. No one challenges than increasingly racist and homophobic posts of major and blackie. I would jump on a thread but whenever I do it is met with nonsense and vulgarity by the usual suspects. No content, just idiocy.

The mods here try to keep things reasonable. It is not always easy, but better than the awful free for all you allow which just lowers the tone to current White House levels. Hence a large mod team here- and all the more successful for it.

Now as you are obviously here because you want real debate, why not just do that, instead of trying to pick apart the competition.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Dean, for all your criticism of this forum, it is faring much better than Flap. The diversity of views here is leagues ahead. I still look in on Flap but it is generally a rant by one poster followed by agreement. Only fatbob offers any real alternative. No one challenges than increasingly racist and homophobic posts of major and blackie. I would jump on a thread but whenever I do it is met with nonsense and vulgarity by the usual suspects. No content, just idiocy.

The mods here try to keep things reasonable. It is not always easy, but better than the awful free for all you allow which just lowers the tone to current White House levels. Hence a large mod team here- and all the more successful for it.

Now as you are obviously here because you want real debate, why not just do that, instead of trying to pick apart the competition.

are the diversity of views different. seems to be pretty much the same with a massive slant to the left instead of the right.

those that do disagree seem to end up censured in one form or another.

My criticisms are entirely about the hypocrisy and lack of consistency in moderation, not the forum content.

Eilzel wrote:I'm not sure who you are responding to there, Dean. Or exactly what you are referring to.

Thorin wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
sorry if it's a sales pitch then perhaps people like you and andwew should stop bringing it up. the only time I mention it is in response to the bollox being spouted by people with their own axe to grind.
I know I kicked you out, but get over it and move on. you were just the same about this place when they kicked you out. they were foolish enough to let you back in in. I want make that mistake twice.

Thanks for telling me how much you are triggered

I know you want me back, hence why you are here begging

eddie wrote:I don't think comparing forums is fair or worth it.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

eddie wrote:I don't think comparing forums is fair or worth it.

then tell others to stop bringing it up. Or should I not respond when it is mentioned by people?
I find it hard to keep up with the rules.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I'm not sure who you are responding to there, Dean. Or exactly what you are referring to.

it was to you lez not mr clever.
" />

Eilzel wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
it was to you lez not mr clever.
" />

Still not sure of your point. But assuming it is why I don't respond to idiocy well there seems little point- it gets nowhere. For all the time wasting in debates from people like tommy here, at least he responds with some sense.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
it was to you lez not mr clever.
" />

Still not sure of your point. But assuming it is why I don't respond to idiocy well there seems little point- it gets nowhere. For all the time wasting in debates from people like tommy here, at least he responds with some sense.

so it is easier to avoid confrontation than take on issues that you are passionate about with people who you think are wrong. ?

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
it was to you lez not mr clever.
" />

Still not sure of your point. But assuming it is why I don't respond to idiocy well there seems little point- it gets nowhere. For all the time wasting in debates from people like tommy here, at least he responds with some sense.

so it is easier to avoid confrontation than take on issues that you are passionate about with people who you think are wrong. ?

Ben Reilly wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
so it is easier to avoid confrontation than take on issues that you are passionate about with people who you think are wrong. ?

Sometimes it is, when you see you're wasting your time trying to move an immovable object!

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

Sometimes it is, when you see you're wasting your time trying to move an immovable object!

yes best just sweep it under the carpet if its too hard to deal with.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
so it is easier to avoid confrontation than take on issues that you are passionate about with people who you think are wrong. ?

Sometimes it is, when you see you're wasting your time trying to move an immovable object!

yes best just sweep it under the carpet if its too hard to deal with.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Dean, for all your criticism of this forum, it is faring much better than Flap. The diversity of views here is leagues ahead. I still look in on Flap but it is generally a rant by one poster followed by agreement. Only fatbob offers any real alternative. No one challenges than increasingly racist and homophobic posts of major and blackie. I would jump on a thread but whenever I do it is met with nonsense and vulgarity by the usual suspects. No content, just idiocy.

The mods here try to keep things reasonable. It is not always easy, but better than the awful free for all you allow which just lowers the tone to current White House levels. Hence a large mod team here- and all the more successful for it.

Now as you are obviously here because you want real debate, why not just do that, instead of trying to pick apart the competition.

are the diversity of views different. seems to be pretty much the same with a massive slant to the left instead of the right.

those that do disagree seem to end up censured in one form or another.

My criticisms are entirely about the hypocrisy and lack of consistency in moderation, not the forum content.

Raggamuffin wrote:So who leaked the texts, and where is the proof that anything was offered by the Government?

The Labour leader said the embarrassing texts were intended for a government adviser called “Nick” but instead went to someone else with the same name, who had passed them on to the party leadership.

Angry Andy wrote:I think the leader of Surrey council sent them to the wrong 'Nick'.
He sent them to a Labour Nick, not the Nick who is an advisor to the Chancellor, I believe..
If that happened, the leak is fair game and a huge embarrament for the Government.
To date there have been no denials.

Raggamuffin wrote:I would have liked to have seen how David Hodge reacted when he realised he'd sent the texts to the wrong Nick. From the look of it, he's quite friendly with the "wrong" Nick, but I wonder if that will continue to be the case.

Anyway, the official explanation is that Surrey Council can keep the business rates which have been raised - or something like that. The texts are too vague to draw any real conclusion about what the "deal" was.

Original Quill wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
he runs nothing, he allows others to do HIS job because he is too lazy to do the simple job himself. This forum could run itself and does not need 2 mods let alone the plethora it has. Nothing that is said or done could not wait a few hours to be dealt with. And then it could be done consistently by one chief.

Maybe some of the people here are too vile to be left alone and need a nanny.

Sour grapes, Dean?  Take a serious look at the definition of delegation:

Google wrote:del·e·ga·tion
ˌdeləˈɡāSH(ə)n/

The act or process of delegating or being delegated.
"prioritizing tasks for delegation"
synonyms: assignment, entrusting, giving, devolution, deputation, transference
"the delegation of tasks to others"

It has to do with leadership styles.  Some managers try to micromanage, that is...keep everything within themselves.  Generally, their style keeps their organization small, as it is limited to the understanding and growth of the solo manager.

Insightful managers delegate so as to enlarge the scope of their organization.  For example, one who runs an on-line site might spread out authority (moderation) to different time zones so as to run the site on a 24-hour basis.

Even more insightful managers delegate to people with special skills.  A manager of a business might assign an accountant to an accounts department, because s/he has the skills to understand accounting matters.  Similarly, a manager of a web-site might delegate moderation to various regions and nations around the globe, because of a regional moderator's understanding and insights into language, issues and tastes of the people they are moderating.

So Dean, delegating is a sign of an intelligent organization.  Permit me to comment, if you limit Flap to just your own mindset, your site is not prepared to grow, nor is it capable of tolerance of ideas not conforming to your own.  Bad idea for a discussion site...no growth, no diversity, no interest.

Eilzel wrote:Really, Dean?

We have Eds, didge, Lord Foul, Syl, Miffs and sometimes Zack around the centre.

Me, Ben, veya, wolfie, quill, sassy, andy and others on the Left.

Tommy, nicko, VoD, raggs, Fred, Independent, yourself and others on the Right.

That is pretty extensive. Especially compared with your place.

Just look how many threads on Flap elicit between zero and less than ten replies. No one os interested because there's either no debate or no maturity.

As for mods here- we try. It isn't your problem anyone- aren't there more important/interesting things to discuss?

Eilzel wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
so it is easier to avoid confrontation than take on issues that you are passionate about with people who you think are wrong. ?

Pmsl. Some of your posters do not know how to debate or discuss. They just post insults against certain groups and then never respond to what you actually say. With the posters here you do. I have better things to do with my time than engage with the likes of your most prolific posters knowing that whatever I say will elicit nothing more than some of the same crap they've come out with for 6 years, and not a single attempt to answer points made.