Theresa May says Britain will be 'poorer' and public services 'weaker' without EU workers

PM: Britain will be 'poorer' without EU workers
MPs debate Brexit Bill amendments
PM will refuse to offer a compromise to rebel Tory MPs
May hosts Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
Number 10 expects to win Wednesday's crunch vote
Government will not back any of the amendments
UK travellers could face higher roaming charges post Brexit
Theresa May has insisted that she will be able to get an "early agreement" on the rights of EU citizens living in Britain, as she sought to ease the concerns of rebel Tory MPs.

The Prime Minister said Britain would be "poorer" and public services "weaker" without the contribution of EU workers and that guaranteeing their rights would be a "priority" during the Brexit negotiations.

Speaking in the Commons this afternoon, Mrs May warned potential rebel MPs they will be "obstructing" the will of the people if they vote to amend the Brexit Bill.

She told MPs this afternoon that the "general view" from EU leaders during the summit in Valletta last week was that the UK and EU need to reach an agreement that applies equally to citizens of both parties.

This means that Britain taking a unilateral decision to guarantee EU nationals' status is "not the right way forward", she said.

She told MPs: I have every expectation from the good will I have seen that it will be possible to get an early agreement on this matter to give people the reassurance that they need.

"I have said before, EU citizens living in the UK make a vital contribution to our economy and our society and without them we would be poorer and our public services weaker.

"So we will make securing the reciprocal agreement that will guarantee their status a priority as soon as the negotiations begin, and I want to see this agreed as soon as possible because that is in everyone's interests."

Number 10 expects to win the crunch vote to trigger the formal exit of the EU on Wednesday, despite suggestions that as many as a dozen Tories could rebel and join with other parties to vote for "wrecking" amendments.

The changes MPs are demanding include protection for EU citizens and a vote on the final Brexit deal before it has been agreed.

Speaking this afternoon, Mrs May warned pro-Remain Tories against backing amendments seeking to ensure Parliament gets a say on the "endgame" if Brexit negotiations collapse without a deal.

The Bill is returning to the Commons today for a further three days of debate during committee stage.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/06/brexit-debate-article-50-bill-live/

I am poorer with mass immigration as it has driven down wages and driven up rent/cost of living and made it harder to travel around with everything busier on public transport.

Funny you should mention travelling because one of the things I've noticed on the underground and mainline train stations is that London transport staff have been replaced by machines, not immigrants.
Same in supermarkets.

Surely there's a happy medium to be reached.
End the free movement, it certainly isn't beneficial to the UK.
Clamp down on companies advertising for workers in EU countries instead of advertising and offering the jobs to locals.

Welcome EU workers who are suited to the jobs they apply for....Obviously the country would suffer if we didn't welcome some workers from the EU and beyond..

Syl wrote:Surely there's a happy medium to be reached.
End the free movement, it certainly isn't beneficial to the UK.
Clamp down on companies advertising for workers in EU countries instead of advertising and offering the jobs to locals.

Welcome EU workers who are suited to the jobs they apply for....Obviously the country would suffer if we didn't welcome some workers from the EU and beyond..

Exactly!

eddie wrote:PM: Britain will be 'poorer' without EU workers  
MPs debate Brexit Bill amendments
PM will refuse to offer a compromise to rebel Tory MPs
May hosts Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
Number 10 expects to win Wednesday's crunch vote
Government will not back any of the amendments
UK travellers could face higher roaming charges post Brexit
Theresa May has insisted that she will be able to get an "early agreement" on the rights of EU citizens living in Britain, as she sought to ease the concerns of rebel Tory MPs.

The Prime Minister said Britain would be "poorer" and public services "weaker" without the contribution of EU workers and that guaranteeing their rights would be a "priority" during the Brexit negotiations.

Speaking in the Commons this afternoon, Mrs May warned potential rebel MPs they will be "obstructing" the will of the people if they vote to amend the Brexit Bill.

She told MPs this afternoon that the "general view" from EU leaders during the summit in Valletta last week was that the UK and EU need to reach an agreement that applies equally to citizens of both parties.

This means that Britain taking a unilateral decision to guarantee EU nationals' status is "not the right way forward", she said.

She told MPs: I have every expectation from the good will I have seen that it will be possible to get an early agreement on this matter to give people the reassurance that they need.

"I have said before, EU citizens living in the UK make a vital contribution to our economy and our society and without them we would be poorer and our public services weaker.

"So we will make securing the reciprocal agreement that will guarantee their status a priority as soon as the negotiations begin, and I want to see this agreed as soon as possible because that is in everyone's interests."

Number 10 expects to win the crunch vote to trigger the formal exit of the EU on Wednesday, despite suggestions that as many as a dozen Tories could rebel and join with other parties to vote for "wrecking" amendments.

The changes MPs are demanding include protection for EU citizens and a vote on the final Brexit deal before it has been agreed.

Speaking this afternoon, Mrs May warned pro-Remain Tories against backing amendments seeking to ensure Parliament gets a say on the "endgame" if Brexit negotiations collapse without a deal.

The Bill is returning to the Commons today for a further three days of debate during committee stage.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/06/brexit-debate-article-50-bill-live/

I'd like to know why we so desperately need EU workers when there's millions of Brits unemployed?

do you really want to know?

I think I'll get accused of the being anti-British is I point out he reason why..

but it relates to work ethics and 'quality'

to paraphrase someone else... (not aimed at you personally)

if you can be replaced by someone new to the nation that is not fluent in the native language and doesn't have local support, contacts or influence. And didn't receive the access to education that was offered.... MAYBE you are the issue

veya_victaous wrote:do you really want to know?

I think I'll get accused of the being anti-British is I point out he reason why..

but it relates to work ethics and 'quality'

to paraphrase someone else... (not aimed at you personally)

if you can be replaced by someone new to the nation that is not fluent in the native language and doesn't have local support, contacts or influence. And didn't receive the access to education that was offered.... MAYBE you are the issue

Another reason is some employers advertise abroad instead of advertising here, so local people don't even get the chance to show whether they can do the job or not.

Big organisations like Butlins and Costa coffee have been outed as doing this. A few years ago a local bus company admitted they had advertised in Poland rather than in Manchester when they needed to recruit 50  drivers.

My son a fully trained scaffolder was made redundant a couple of times in the space of 2 years a few years ago...the companies folded, then reopened later staffed  completely with a less qualified EU  work force, who could afford to  work for a  far less wage.

They were being ripped off...but the lower wage was still higher than what they could have earned at home, plus they were getting benefits to send home to their wives and families. In the meantime the Brit workers were out of work...they are the losers, certainly not the employers who were drastically  underpaying.

You are correct Syl, that is whats going on with some Firms.

Wages have been driven down while costs of living/rents have spiralled...


Most workers from the EU are getting this lower wage rate and living 10 to a house etc... it's OK for them for a year or two as they then fuck off back with enough money to buy a house and a decent car in their own country...

Also... I almost forgot... uk firms get given about a £1000 from eu for hiring a foreign worker... plus the worker can claim about £1500 from eu for relocation costs...

Tommy Monk wrote:

Wages have been driven down while costs of living/rents have spiralled...


Most workers from the EU are getting this lower wage rate and living 10 to a house etc... it's OK for them for a year or two as they then fuck off back with enough money to buy a house and a decent car in their own country...

Nothing to do with immigration, wages.

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21650086-salaries-rich-countries-are-stagnating-even-growth-returns-and-politicians-are-paying

Wages have been driven down while costs of living/rents have spiralled...


And also I was listening to a govt housing minister talking on a politics show the other day... he was saying that there has been a distinct and substantial decline in the numbers of our younger people (typical first time buyers group) actually becoming homeowners in recent years... he said the decline started in 2004!!!


Now... think back to 2004... what can you think of that changed/started to happen back in 2004 that may have had such a negative impact on the ability of our younger people (typical first time buyers group) in becoming the homeowners since then, that they would normally otherwise have become...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Wages have been driven down while costs of living/rents have spiralled...


And also I was listening to a govt housing minister talking on a politics show the other day... he was saying that there has been a distinct and substantial decline in the numbers of our younger people (typical first time buyers group) actually becoming homeowners in recent years... he said the decline started in 2004!!!


Now... think back to 2004... what can you think of that changed/started to happen back in 2004 that may have had such a negative impact on the ability of our younger people (typical first time buyers group) in becoming the homeowners since then, that they would normally otherwise have become...!?

Ah, but do you actually even know what you are talking about?

Thorin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

Wages have been driven down while costs of living/rents have spiralled...


And also I was listening to a govt housing minister talking on a politics show the other day... he was saying that there has been a distinct and substantial decline in the numbers of our younger people (typical first time buyers group) actually becoming homeowners in recent years... he said the decline started in 2004!!!


Now... think back to 2004... what can you think of that changed/started to happen back in 2004 that may have had such a negative impact on the ability of our younger people (typical first time buyers group) in becoming the homeowners since then, that they would normally otherwise have become...!?

Ah, but do you actually even know what you are talking about?

Yes... of course I do.


Do you...!?

And even before 2004...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3466485/How-Blair-cynically-let-two-million-migrants-Explosive-biography-reveals-PM-s-conspiracy-silence-immigration-debate.html



(That is 'let in 2 million more, on top of the millions they had already planned to let in'...)

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Ah, but do you actually even know what you are talking about?

Yes... of course I do.


Do you...!?

Yes, so what has it got to do with immigrants?

As you do realise that wages have gone up under immigration here in the past?

Do you even understand business and competition with wages?

Do you understand the basic economic principles of supply and demand...?

Tommy Monk wrote:Do you understand the basic economic principles of supply and demand...?

Yes, do  you understand competition?

veya_victaous wrote:do you really want to know?

I think I'll get accused of the being anti-British is I point out he reason why..

but it relates to work ethics and 'quality'

to paraphrase someone else... (not aimed at you personally)

if you can be replaced by someone new to the nation that is not fluent in the native language and doesn't have local support, contacts or influence. And didn't receive the access to education that was offered.... MAYBE you are the issue

As Syl pointed out, it's not the British people that are at fault here on the whole, but those who run the country and hold the purse strings.

HoratioTarr wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:do you really want to know?

I think I'll get accused of the being anti-British is I point out he reason why..

but it relates to work ethics and 'quality'

to paraphrase someone else... (not aimed at you personally)

As Syl pointed out, it's not the British people that are at fault here on the whole, but those who run the country and hold the purse strings.  

I would beg to differ

Those who vote, also play a part, they can change things when they vote or be complicit.

Thorin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Do you understand the basic economic principles of supply and demand...?

Yes, do  you understand competition?

When there is an increase in people competing for limited number of jobs then this drives down wages...


When there is increase in people competing for limited number of houses then this drives up costs...

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Yes, do  you understand competition?

When there is an increase in people competing for limited number of jobs then this drives down wages...


When there is increase in people competing for limited number of houses then this drives up costs...

Yes I know that is off he UKIP script

That is not the reason for wages stagnation

That is you being a sheep

I want facts

Put up the facts

Thorin wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

As Syl pointed out, it's not the British people that are at fault here on the whole, but those who run the country and hold the purse strings.  

I would beg to differ

Those who vote, also play a part, they can change things when they vote or be complicit.

Nobody voted for maastricht... nobody voted for mass immigration... nobody voted for lisbon/eu constitution...


But majority voted to get out the eu in the first chance we got last year on 23rd June!!!

Thorin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


When there is an increase in people competing for limited number of jobs then this drives down wages...


When there is increase in people competing for limited number of houses then this drives up costs...

Yes I know that is off he UKIP script

That is not the reason for wages stagnation

That is you being a sheep

I want facts

Put up the facts

No... what I said is rules of basic economics!!!


Supply and demand!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Yes I know that is off he UKIP script

That is not the reason for wages stagnation

That is you being a sheep

I want facts

Put up the facts

No... what I said is rules of basic economics!!!


Supply and demand!!!

So you gave me bollocks then?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/12063052/Mass-migration-driving-down-wages-offered-to-British-jobseekers.html


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9740662/Theresa-May-mass-immigration-pushes-up-house-prices.html

Tommy Monk wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/12063052/Mass-migration-driving-down-wages-offered-to-British-jobseekers.html


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9740662/Theresa-May-mass-immigration-pushes-up-house-prices.html

So two opinions then?

Where is the evidence to back their claims on wages, not housing
You have care staff, cleaners and waiting staff.
Is that it?


In your own time

Mass immigration drives down wages while driving up costs of living...


One article focuses on the detrimental effect on wages... other article focuses on increased costs of living...

Tommy Monk wrote:

Mass immigration drives down wages while driving up costs of living...


One article focuses on the detrimental effect on wages... other article focuses on increased costs of living...

Regurgitation argument

Try again

One article focuses on the detrimental effect on wages... other article focuses on increased costs of living...


Points proved.

Tommy Monk wrote:One article focuses on the detrimental effect on wages... other article focuses on increased costs of living...


Points proved.

Really?


Two media article opinions?

From what I can see, immigration drives wages down slightly for the very least skilled citizens. You can pay an immigrant marginally less to do a menial task than you can to an almost completely unskilled native. Big deal.

Immigration causes housing cost to rise by as much as 10 percent over net zero immigration -- again, something that is unlikely to cause a lot of pain to the average citizen.

The solution is probably a small increase to social welfare, not to put a stranglehold on immigration and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Interesting...


Dodge tries complete denial...


Ben accepts the effects... but tries to downplay the impact (both directly and wider) and also tries to tell us how unimportant the people worst affected by it all are...!



So much for caring about the poorest in society...

Tommy Monk wrote:Interesting...


Dodge tries complete denial...


Ben accepts the effects... but tries to downplay the impact (both directly and wider) and also tries to tell us how unimportant the people worst affected by it all are...!



So much for caring about the poorest in society...

So the bass for your argument, is nothing ben said on immigration

Explain?

I know when tommy is being a twat, as he calls me dodge

The poor ingrain far right racist wannabe is so easy to play with

Also, now Ben, must always be right, according to Tommy.

Well done Ben, he now cannot disagree with you. As that is his evidence

Tommy Monk wrote:Interesting...


Dodge tries complete denial...


Ben accepts the effects... but tries to downplay the impact (both directly and wider) and also tries to tell us how unimportant the people worst affected by it all are...!



So much for caring about the poorest in society...

"The solution is probably a small increase to social welfare" - me

Dipshit!

No... the solution is a stop of mass immigration.

The answer is to make sure every penny earned here is taxed here
and close all those "avoidance" loop holes....

and make certain that "the Board" and seniors in EVERY company cannot earn more than 20x the lowest wage in the company.

It also resides in a "technology tax" whereby any business replacing a worker by technology pays a stiff penalty in tax for every job lost....

It also resides in a decent citizens wage, paid for (at least in part) by that tech tax.

\but you wont get ANY of that under any form of govt comprising the current players or oposition...

Tommy Monk wrote:No... the solution is a stop of mass immigration.

Why?
it's not their fault your useless

You squander life's advantages and now cry poor because you're a lazy bugger.
Or because you Don't accept globalization mean YOU HAVE TO Compete on equal terms with people around the world and that sort of mindless labor is Worth Fuck all, cause anyone can do it.


Why Do you Believe the world owes you a Living?
RW love to whine about hand outs so ....
why do you think the employers should give you free money? cause that IS what you are asking for, you are saying "an employer should give me more because I'm British" even though they can get the same or better for cheaper elsewhere. Do you buy from a shop that just charges 40% more for exactly the same products and services?
Why do you expect employers to?

If you want communism Blame Nicko
people like him set the precedent of shooting people that want to live in a commie nation.

Bollocks you geranium.

veya_victaous wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:No... the solution is a stop of mass immigration.

Why?
it's not their fault your useless

You squander life's advantages and now cry poor because you're a lazy bugger.
Or because you Don't accept globalization mean YOU HAVE TO Compete on equal terms with people around the world and that sort of mindless labor is Worth Fuck all, cause anyone can do it.


Why Do you Believe the world owes you a Living?
RW love to whine about hand outs so ....
why do you think the employers should give you free money? cause that IS what you are asking for, you are saying "an employer should give me more because I'm British" even though they can get the same or better for cheaper elsewhere. Do you buy from a shop that just charges 40% more for exactly the same products and services?    
Why do you expect employers to?

If you want communism Blame Nicko        
people like him set the precedent of shooting people that want to live in a commie nation.

If your govt allowed hundreds of thousands of foreigners into your country to do your job cheaper... you would be happy...?

@tommy
they do
My skills are on the desired skills list and allow people to migrate here. my roles CAN be advertised overseas to and people bought in on working visas, it is actually what the 457 visa system is designed for.
But I don't cry about it like a RW snowflake

I don't care, I just do it better and add more skills.
Because YOU HAVE TO COMPETE GLOBALLY!!! what do you not understand that applies to everyone including me.
thank the old buggers for making it so, but it's not going to change now.

Big headed wanker !!

eddie wrote:PM: Britain will be 'poorer' without EU workers  
MPs debate Brexit Bill amendments
PM will refuse to offer a compromise to rebel Tory MPs
May hosts Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
Number 10 expects to win Wednesday's crunch vote
Government will not back any of the amendments
UK travellers could face higher roaming charges post Brexit
Theresa May has insisted that she will be able to get an "early agreement" on the rights of EU citizens living in Britain, as she sought to ease the concerns of rebel Tory MPs.

The Prime Minister said Britain would be "poorer" and public services "weaker" without the contribution of EU workers and that guaranteeing their rights would be a "priority" during the Brexit negotiations.

Speaking in the Commons this afternoon, Mrs May warned potential rebel MPs they will be "obstructing" the will of the people if they vote to amend the Brexit Bill.

She told MPs this afternoon that the "general view" from EU leaders during the summit in Valletta last week was that the UK and EU need to reach an agreement that applies equally to citizens of both parties.

This means that Britain taking a unilateral decision to guarantee EU nationals' status is "not the right way forward", she said.

She told MPs: I have every expectation from the good will I have seen that it will be possible to get an early agreement on this matter to give people the reassurance that they need.

"I have said before, EU citizens living in the UK make a vital contribution to our economy and our society and without them we would be poorer and our public services weaker.

"So we will make securing the reciprocal agreement that will guarantee their status a priority as soon as the negotiations begin, and I want to see this agreed as soon as possible because that is in everyone's interests."

Number 10 expects to win the crunch vote to trigger the formal exit of the EU on Wednesday, despite suggestions that as many as a dozen Tories could rebel and join with other parties to vote for "wrecking" amendments.

The changes MPs are demanding include protection for EU citizens and a vote on the final Brexit deal before it has been agreed.

Speaking this afternoon, Mrs May warned pro-Remain Tories against backing amendments seeking to ensure Parliament gets a say on the "endgame" if Brexit negotiations collapse without a deal.

The Bill is returning to the Commons today for a further three days of debate during committee stage.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/06/brexit-debate-article-50-bill-live/

the pertinent word there is "WORKERS"
people coming to the UK to work will always be welcomed, it is those that come to take out of our very generous benefits system that most hope will be stopped.
I hope that at some point it will become policy that no one can claim benefits without having paid into the system for a set number of years, foreign or domestic.
Of course those with disabilities and serious illness would be exempted.
Britain is not able to be the worlds free money bank.

HoratioTarr wrote:

eddie wrote:PM: Britain will be 'poorer' without EU workers  
MPs debate Brexit Bill amendments
PM will refuse to offer a compromise to rebel Tory MPs
May hosts Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
Number 10 expects to win Wednesday's crunch vote
Government will not back any of the amendments
UK travellers could face higher roaming charges post Brexit
Theresa May has insisted that she will be able to get an "early agreement" on the rights of EU citizens living in Britain, as she sought to ease the concerns of rebel Tory MPs.

The Prime Minister said Britain would be "poorer" and public services "weaker" without the contribution of EU workers and that guaranteeing their rights would be a "priority" during the Brexit negotiations.

Speaking in the Commons this afternoon, Mrs May warned potential rebel MPs they will be "obstructing" the will of the people if they vote to amend the Brexit Bill.

She told MPs this afternoon that the "general view" from EU leaders during the summit in Valletta last week was that the UK and EU need to reach an agreement that applies equally to citizens of both parties.

This means that Britain taking a unilateral decision to guarantee EU nationals' status is "not the right way forward", she said.

She told MPs: I have every expectation from the good will I have seen that it will be possible to get an early agreement on this matter to give people the reassurance that they need.

"I have said before, EU citizens living in the UK make a vital contribution to our economy and our society and without them we would be poorer and our public services weaker.

"So we will make securing the reciprocal agreement that will guarantee their status a priority as soon as the negotiations begin, and I want to see this agreed as soon as possible because that is in everyone's interests."

Number 10 expects to win the crunch vote to trigger the formal exit of the EU on Wednesday, despite suggestions that as many as a dozen Tories could rebel and join with other parties to vote for "wrecking" amendments.

The changes MPs are demanding include protection for EU citizens and a vote on the final Brexit deal before it has been agreed.

Speaking this afternoon, Mrs May warned pro-Remain Tories against backing amendments seeking to ensure Parliament gets a say on the "endgame" if Brexit negotiations collapse without a deal.

The Bill is returning to the Commons today for a further three days of debate during committee stage.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/06/brexit-debate-article-50-bill-live/

I'd like to know why we so desperately need EU workers when there's millions of Brits unemployed?  

that is a very good point.
perhaps part of the explanation might be that some unemployed think some jobs are beneath them. and some may be that some areas do not have enough unemployed to fill the jobs, However as norman tebbit said many years ago perhaps they should get on their bikes and go to where the work is.
I spent almost 40 years working away from home, going to where work was, not expecting work to come to me.
The closest I ever worked to home was about 25 miles. I have commuted daily more than 100 miles each way for work before now, or if too far have stayed in B&B's during the week or in some cases 7 days a week because the overtime was available. Working 12 or more hours a day 7 days a week. OF course most of those long days happened during the start of my career, I never expected to be a CEO on my first day which is what, I get the impression, many millennials assume they should be. You work your way up from the bottom when you start out.

veya_victaous wrote:do you really want to know?

I think I'll get accused of the being anti-British is I point out he reason why..

but it relates to work ethics and 'quality'

to paraphrase someone else... (not aimed at you personally)

if you can be replaced by someone new to the nation that is not fluent in the native language and doesn't have local support, contacts or influence. And didn't receive the access to education that was offered.... MAYBE you are the issue

you may be right, after years of being told in school that we are all winners and competition is a bad thing the modern "yoof" is pretty much useless, even those who attend university often have to take basic literacy education once they do find a job, according to some major employers

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10306211/University-leavers-lack-the-essential-skills-for-work-employers-warn.html

Thorin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


When there is an increase in people competing for limited number of jobs then this drives down wages...


When there is increase in people competing for limited number of houses then this drives up costs...

Yes I know that is off he UKIP script

That is not the reason for wages stagnation

That is you being a sheep

I want facts

Put up the facts

wages started to stagnate in the mid 2000's, i worked for a firm on and off that didn't give a rise for at least 5 years until I left the country.