Should Tom Jones be sacked for making remarks about a singers weight being the cause of her failure?

I think he has a point.
Looks matter in the shallow entertainment world, and when someone makes it in spite of their weight....they are the notable exceptions to the rule.


http://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/celebrity/calls-for-sir-tom-jones-to-be-sacked-from-the-voice-after-comments-about-ex-winners-weight/ar-BBxZjy4?li=AAaeUIW&ocid=spartanntp

"Sir Tom Jones is facing calls to quit as a coach on The Voice UK before the first episode of the latest series has even aired.
The 76-year-old has been criticised by eating disorder charities after he said former winner Leanne Mitchell “didn’t have the drive” to succeed, and put on more weight.
Sir Tom told the Daily Mirror: “When she first came on, I thought about her trimming down a bit.
“Rather than take the opportunity of winning The Voice and having a  chance of getting a record deal, which she did, she put on more weight. She didn’t have the drive.”
Jane Kenyon from support group Girls Out Loud told the newspaper she would sack Sir Tom if it was up to her."

There is nothing wrong with what he said in my book
People may well have eating disorders, but like he says, that does not stop them having then a drive to combat their condition. If you know you have a condition, you look to deal with by get up and go with things like fitness training. To say its wrong she has no will to succeed. When she is failing at her weight problem, when she can do something about is the right thing to say. It can then empower that person to succeed and do something about this. Its no good mollycoddling people who do not want to help themselves.

I don't watch that programme, but I've looked at photos of the girl, and she doesn't look that big to me. Did he actually say that she failed because she put on weight? He seemed to be talking about her lack of drive more than anything.

I'm not sure that eating disorders charities should be commenting. Most weight gain isn't down to an eating disorder.

I agree Thor. I'm not saying it's right that only slim and beautiful people succeed if they want to be a success on TV or films....but it's usually true.

Jennifer Hudson, another panellist on the show lost loads of weight, had she remained obese her acting career would have been limited to fat girl roles, and in truth.....who would welcome that?

Tom Jones is sexist....his track record proves that, (though he has also said he would not have been as popular if he had looked like a warthog) but he is only saying what millions are thinking.

Syl wrote:I agree Thor. I'm not saying it's right that only slim and beautiful people succeed if they want to be a success on TV or films....but it's usually  true.

Jennifer Hudson, another panellist on the show lost loads of weight, had she remained obese her acting career would have been limited to fat girl roles, and in truth.....who would welcome that?

Tom Jones is sexist....his track record proves that, (though he has also said he would not have been as popular if he had looked like a warthog) but he is only saying what millions are thinking.

lol not disagreeing he is sexist.
He is a dinosaur after all and there is no excuse for that, but here I think his words should be taken in the right context. People sometimes too easily take offense when they should have taken encouragement from them to prove him wrong.

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't watch that programme, but I've looked at photos of the girl, and she doesn't look that big to me. Did he actually say that she failed because she put on weight? He seemed to be talking about her lack of drive more than anything.

I'm not sure that eating disorders charities should be commenting. Most weight gain isn't down to an eating disorder.

I think he has blamed her weight gain to her lack of drive, impacting on her lack of success.....though who knows if she had been a bigger success had she slimmed down, I hardly remember her, and I do watch the show.

I agree about weight gain...the main causes are bad eating habits and lack of exercise....and neither has anything to do with illness normally.

Sometimes the world doesn't want to hear the truth and many times we will back something because we feel sorry for the person.
Unfortunately, the world of music is all about visuals and videos and performing live (this is where the money is now) and anyone who's not physically fit will not be at their peak in performing or recording.
I speak from experience too! Years of it. Performing and spending hours in a recording studio is really hard work physically - the fitter you are the better. It's okay if you plan to just stand there and belt out slow numbers all night I guess, but....no longevity there.

Having said all of that, I still have that little voice that says "Please leave overwieght people alone!"
It's a shame we can't see past a bit of fat. When people remark how good my figure is I say "Well under their clothes no one is happy with the way they look and if you wanna see some flab I'll show you my baby belly!"

I keep fit but I'm not perfect so I won't judge someone else's body. Beauty comes from within and as cliche as that sounds, it's actually so very true.

eddie wrote:Sometimes the world doesn't want to hear the truth and many times we will back something because we feel sorry for the person.
Unfortunately, the world of music is all about visuals and videos and performing live (this is where the money is now) and anyone who's not physically fit will not be at their peak in performing or recording.
I speak from experience too! Years of it. Performing and spending hours in a recording studio is really hard work physically - the fitter you are the better. It's okay if you plan to just stand there and belt out slow numbers all night I guess, but....no longevity there.

Having said all of that, I still have that little voice that says "Please leave overwieght people alone!"
It's a shame we can't see past a bit of fat. When people remark how good my figure is I say "Well under their clothes no one is happy with the way they look and if you wanna see some flab I'll show you my baby belly!"

I keep fit but I'm not perfect so I won't judge someone else's body. Beauty comes from within and as cliche as that sounds, it's actually so very true.

Very good points
I do not see it as seeing pass a bit of fat Eddie
We do not turn around to smokers of which I have been myself and say. Its okay to smoke, when the right reasoned thing to say, is that it is slowing killing them. Just as is obesity is. I am not talking about slightly being over weight. As the measurement used is bonkers, as to what constitutes being overweight. I am talking about people, easily out of breath just walking up stairs from being over weight. This is not about beauty, but their well being. It is of course up to them, but I see no wrong in pointing out the harm they are doing to themselves.

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:I agree Thor. I'm not saying it's right that only slim and beautiful people succeed if they want to be a success on TV or films....but it's usually  true.

Jennifer Hudson, another panellist on the show lost loads of weight, had she remained obese her acting career would have been limited to fat girl roles, and in truth.....who would welcome that?

Tom Jones is sexist....his track record proves that, (though he has also said he would not have been as popular if he had looked like a warthog) but he is only saying what millions are thinking.

lol not disagreeing he is sexist.
He is a dinosaur after all and there is no excuse for that, but here I think his words should be taken in the right context. People sometimes too easily take offense when they should have taken encouragement from them to prove him wrong.

Everyone takes offence at something nowadays.
Fat is unhealthy, now I doubt Tom Jones was thinking about that when he said what he did, he was thinking along a shallower route, that fat people are not that good to look at, and if you don't want to look at someone you probably have no interest in listening to them either.....unless they are exceptional (like Adele for eg) but she is the exception to the rule.

Back in the day Tom Jones had his huge nose altered......so he knows looking good is an asset, I agree with what he said.

Syl your point about Adele is spot on to be fair but she's a ballad singer mainly, (and a tedious one in my opinion, fabulous voice but snooze fest songs), but she would struggle to perform up tempo songs for two hours - she's a "stand still" kind of girl and pretty much depends on her record sales rather than videos and live gigs.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't watch that programme, but I've looked at photos of the girl, and she doesn't look that big to me. Did he actually say that she failed because she put on weight? He seemed to be talking about her lack of drive more than anything.

I'm not sure that eating disorders charities should be commenting. Most weight gain isn't down to an eating disorder.

I think he has blamed her weight gain to her lack of drive, impacting on her lack of success.....though who knows if she had been a bigger success had she slimmed down, I hardly remember her, and I do watch the show.

I agree about weight gain...the main causes are bad eating habits and lack of exercise....and neither has anything to do with illness normally.

I suppose that one can read between the lines and attribute overeating to lack of drive. I do think that the tendency to overeat or eat the wrong things does often go hand in hand with a lack of self-discipline and a rather cavalier attitude. The main cause of weight gain is taking in more calories than one burns. It's very easily done these days because of "comfort eating" and that kind of thing, but it's not a disorder.

Don't people care more about the type of music someone makes rather than their size?

eddie wrote:Sometimes the world doesn't want to hear the truth and many times we will back something because we feel sorry for the person.
Unfortunately, the world of music is all about visuals and videos and performing live (this is where the money is now) and anyone who's not physically fit will not be at their peak in performing or recording.
I speak from experience too! Years of it. Performing and spending hours in a recording studio is really hard work physically - the fitter you are the better. It's okay if you plan to just stand there and belt out slow numbers all night I guess, but....no longevity there.

Having said all of that, I still have that little voice that says "Please leave overwieght people alone!"
It's a shame we can't see past a bit of fat. When people remark how good my figure is I say "Well under their clothes no one is happy with the way they look and if you wanna see some flab I'll show you my baby belly!"

I keep fit but I'm not perfect so I won't judge someone else's body. Beauty comes from within and as cliche as that sounds, it's actually so very true.

If people choose to be overweight (and it is a choice usually) and they are happy with that, that's fair enough.
I feel a bit sorry for Leanne Mitchel, the ex winner of the voice, because she was brought into this unfairly, he just used her to make his point.....also he could be covering himself because his winner faded from the spotlight almost immediately, so that's not good for his profile really.

He has got the show lots of publicity though....so it's not all bad.

Rags I couldn't give a stuff about the size of my singers and I'm not particularly worried about a bit of fat on my lovers either, but most artists nowadays are aimed at young people / teens, and the question is: is this artist the type of woman that boys will fantasise about and girls will want to copy?

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:

lol not disagreeing he is sexist.
He is a dinosaur after all and there is no excuse for that, but here I think his words should be taken in the right context. People sometimes too easily take offense when they should have taken encouragement from them to prove him wrong.

Everyone takes offence at something nowadays.  
Fat is unhealthy, now I doubt Tom Jones was thinking about that when he said what he did, he was thinking along a shallower route, that fat people are not that good to look at, and if you don't want to look at someone you probably have no interest in listening to them either.....unless they are exceptional (like Adele for eg) but she is the exception to the rule.

Back in the day Tom Jones had his huge nose altered......so he knows looking good is an asset, I agree with what he said.

He didn't have a huge nose in the first place. I don't think having a nose job is a good example to use, and it's not really the same thing - it's quite a drastic thing to have done.

eddie wrote:Syl your point about Adele is spot on to be fair but she's a ballad singer mainly, (and a tedious one in my opinion, fabulous voice but snooze fest songs), but she would struggle to perform up tempo songs for two hours - she's a "stand still" kind of girl and pretty much depends on her record sales rather than videos and live gigs.

That's true Eddie, she doesn't jog around much. Also (being shallow again) she has a classically beautiful face which she uses to good advantage....and she also writes and sings songs that lots of women can identify with....full of unrequited angst, depressing, but she describe well what most of us have felt at one time or another.

eddie wrote:Rags I couldn't give a stuff about the size of my singers and I'm not particularly worried about a bit of fat on my lovers either, but most artists nowadays are aimed at young people / teens, and the question is: is this artist the type of woman that boys will fantasise about and girls will want to copy?

It's a long time since I was impressed with what a singer looks like eddie, but then I'm not a young person. The pressure to be an icon must put enormous pressure on someone, so maybe she's not pandering to that. I think the type of music they make is more important, and the secret to that is knowing your market and/or knowing where there's a gap in that market. I don't think that having a good voice is enough, and neither is being slim.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:

Everyone takes offence at something nowadays.  
Fat is unhealthy, now I doubt Tom Jones was thinking about that when he said what he did, he was thinking along a shallower route, that fat people are not that good to look at, and if you don't want to look at someone you probably have no interest in listening to them either.....unless they are exceptional (like Adele for eg) but she is the exception to the rule.

Back in the day Tom Jones had his huge nose altered......so he knows looking good is an asset, I agree with what he said.

He didn't have a huge nose in the first place. I don't think having a nose job is a good example to use, and it's not really the same thing - it's quite a drastic thing to have done.

Well it was twice as big as the one he ended up with.

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:Rags I couldn't give a stuff about the size of my singers and I'm not particularly worried about a bit of fat on my lovers either, but most artists nowadays are aimed at young people / teens, and the question is: is this artist the type of woman that boys will fantasise about and girls will want to copy?

It's a long time since I was impressed with what a singer looks like eddie, but then I'm not a young person.  The pressure to be an icon must put enormous pressure on someone, so maybe she's not pandering to that. I think the type of music they make is more important, and the secret to that is knowing your market and/or knowing where there's a gap in that market. I don't think that having a good voice is enough, and neither is being slim.

Spot on. It's not really about your range of octaves but about how much emotion you use and the lyrics too.
Performance is about 90% of a song when you're singing live.

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's a long time since I was impressed with what a singer looks like eddie, but then I'm not a young person.  The pressure to be an icon must put enormous pressure on someone, so maybe she's not pandering to that. I think the type of music they make is more important, and the secret to that is knowing your market and/or knowing where there's a gap in that market. I don't think that having a good voice is enough, and neither is being slim.

Spot on. It's not really about your range of octaves but about how much emotion you use and the lyrics too.
Performance is about 90% of a song when you're singing live.

Hmmm, it depends on what people like. Lyrics aren't that important to a lot of people - hence the enduring popularity of dance music which contains virtually no lyrics to speak of. It doesn't tend to feature much emotion either. Aren't people tired of "power ballads"?

Having said that, I have no idea what kind of stuff this lady sang, or her style. I'll have to find her on You Tube.

Okay well dance music aside - I'm talking about regular performers and I hate hate hate power ballads!

eddie wrote:Okay well dance music aside - I'm talking about regular performers and I hate hate hate power ballads!

I'm not sure what a regular performer is these days. It just seems to me that there's no tune or rhythm in those power ballads. Then again, it depends on what you like I guess.

Apart from reality shows like the X factor and the voice, where do people actually get the chance to start off now?
My day we had clubs...live music was everywhere, it WAS more about the voice then, not everyone had to look perfect.
Now it's all manufactured....the onset of videos was a turning point where the looks was just as important as the talent.
That's how I see it anyway.

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:

Spot on. It's not really about your range of octaves but about how much emotion you use and the lyrics too.
Performance is about 90% of a song when you're singing live.

Hmmm, it depends on what people like. Lyrics aren't that important to a lot of people - hence the enduring popularity of dance music which contains virtually no lyrics to speak of. It doesn't tend to feature much emotion either. Aren't people tired of "power ballads"?  

Having said that, I have no idea what kind of stuff this lady sang, or her style. I'll have to find her on You Tube.

Dueting with Tom Jones on the VOICE .....I think she is a bit mediocre, but she did win that year.

Susan Boyle?????????????????????????

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Hmmm, it depends on what people like. Lyrics aren't that important to a lot of people - hence the enduring popularity of dance music which contains virtually no lyrics to speak of. It doesn't tend to feature much emotion either. Aren't people tired of "power ballads"?  

Having said that, I have no idea what kind of stuff this lady sang, or her style. I'll have to find her on You Tube.

Dueting with Tom Jones on the VOICE .....I think she is a bit mediocre, but she did win that year.

Cheers. She's pretty good - at least she's doing quite an uptempo song.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:

Everyone takes offence at something nowadays.  
Fat is unhealthy, now I doubt Tom Jones was thinking about that when he said what he did, he was thinking along a shallower route, that fat people are not that good to look at, and if you don't want to look at someone you probably have no interest in listening to them either.....unless they are exceptional (like Adele for eg) but she is the exception to the rule.

Back in the day Tom Jones had his huge nose altered......so he knows looking good is an asset, I agree with what he said.

He didn't have a huge nose in the first place. I don't think having a nose job is a good example to use, and it's not really the same thing - it's quite a drastic thing to have done.

Well it was twice as big as the one he ended up with.

Holy shit, young Tom Jones is modern-day Andy Samberg:

Syl wrote:Apart from reality shows like the X factor and the voice, where do people actually get the chance to start off now?
My day we had clubs...live music was everywhere, it WAS more about the voice then, not everyone had to look perfect.
Now it's all manufactured....the onset of videos was a turning point where the looks was just as important as the talent.
That's how I see it anyway.

Most music nowadays is downloadable and the actual profit for songwriters comes from ticket sales at concerts. There's no money left in actual sales of CD's now.

many new 'real' artists are just making their own clips and putting them on youtube.
CD sales have gone to be replaced by advertising revenue.

Of course in the new model there in no place for record labels and all these other hangers on so the industry is resisting it as much as it can.

fat birds make great opera singers.
not so much these days in the pop world.
and talking of fat birds has anyone seen alison moyet recently, wow she is a skinny bitch these days.

it is curious that these days being overweight is seen as a good thing to be applauded.

The Devil, You Know wrote:fat birds make great opera singers.
not so much these days in the pop world.
and talking of fat birds has anyone seen alison moyet recently, wow she is a skinny bitch these days.

it is curious that these days being overweight is seen as a good thing to be applauded.

Alison Moyet looked a lot better when she was overweight imo, last time I saw her on TV she looked drawn and quite ill....she can still sing though.

Syl wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:fat birds make great opera singers.
not so much these days in the pop world.
and talking of fat birds has anyone seen alison moyet recently, wow she is a skinny bitch these days.

it is curious that these days being overweight is seen as a good thing to be applauded.

Alison Moyet looked a lot better when she was overweight imo, last time I saw her on TV she looked drawn and quite ill....she can still sing though.

Just made me think of this great song 

She has a great voice. That old devil called love again ..still sounds great.....can't post videos on this bloody tablet.