The only Leader who actually knows what is happening

First topic message reminder :

And actually helps!

CentrePoint a couple of nights ago.

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:


You don't need posts for Nazi's licking your boots Raggamuffin, we watch the Nazi do it all the time.  Poor old Private Putrid just can't help himself.

I thought you wanted to discuss Corbyn. You clearly have more interest in bitching about other members. All your threads are aimed at other members, thinly disguised as "admiration" for Corbyn or Muslims. Your agenda is not very well hidden.

I corrected your post as you seem to be incapable to spelling my name correctly.

No Fenella, I'm spelling it just right.   Please show me a thread aimed at other members that I started.   Your nose is growing again.

nicko wrote:Eddie, no petrol, no cars, no ambulances, no Planes, no lorries to bring food to the shops, no police,   if you think about it,   in a few weeks we would have anarchy. Do you have a horse? or would you be able to walk miles?  

Sassy's post is my answer.

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I thought you wanted to discuss Corbyn. You clearly have more interest in bitching about other members. All your threads are aimed at other members, thinly disguised as "admiration" for Corbyn or Muslims. Your agenda is not very well hidden.

I corrected your post as you seem to be incapable to spelling my name correctly.

No Fenella, I'm spelling it just right.   Please show me a thread aimed at other members that I started.   Your nose is growing again.

No, you're not. It's Raggamuffin. You see the difference? Perhaps you should get a new keyboard as it appears to be malfunctioning.

All your threads are aimed at other members. You just pretend they're actually about something else.

Oh come on, lets play the game that Fenella knows what she is talking about and posts the names of the threads I have started aimed at a forum member.

Anyway, how does "helping" to cook a meal for the homeless indicate that Corbyn knows what is happening? It's not exactly a qualification for running the country is it?

He'd do better to campaign for proper help for them.

sassy wrote:Oh come on, lets play the game that Fenella knows what she is talking about and posts the names of the threads I have started aimed at a forum member.

I don't understand why you're bringing a poster's supposed former ID on to a thread sassy?

Please don't. You're better than that.

I don't know why Sassy keeps doing it. It's not as if there's anything wrong with the name, but it's not the name I use here. She might confuse her buddies.

nicko wrote:Eddie, no petrol, no cars, no ambulances, no Planes, no lorries to bring food to the shops, no police,   if you think about it,   in a few weeks we would have anarchy. Do you have a horse? or would you be able to walk miles?  

Electric engines are a thing you know?

Petrol will go soon, it is already not as good as electric engines for Power and torque
the only down side to electric cars is the distance, still get about 200km range now and always improving. which is not really the same issue in the Uk as it is down here.

WITHIN the next 15--20 years, petrol will be too scarce and expensive in most countries.
In the meantime, high pollution levels will lead to infernal combustion engines being banned from many of the larger cities, in only another 5--10 years or so..

While electric vehicles will dominate around the cities (already, cities are responsible for maybe 2/3 -->> 3/4 of the world's motorised transport --  which also includes buses and trains..);  other alternative fuel sources are coming online, year by year..

We already have biodiesel for trucks, vans and 4WDs;  and hydrogen cells are being trialled in buses around some cities, while both LPG and LNG also have their place in heavy transport.        

nicko wrote:
Eddie, no petrol, no cars, no ambulances, no Planes, no lorries to bring food to the shops, no police,   if you think about it,   in a few weeks we would have anarchy. Do you have a horse? or would you be able to walk miles?  

PLANES don't use petrol, nicko...

Avgas and diesel are still petroleum based..
Turbine and jet engines use a kerosene based fuel..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas

Don't be picky. How do they get the Kerosene to the Aircraft?

With petrol or diesel lorries.

nicko wrote:Don't be picky.    How do they get the Kerosene to the Aircraft?

With petrol or diesel lorries.

Oh Silver plane in bluest sky
Folk flying off to paradise
How vain, how silly, how unwise
The grass there is no greener.

Kerosene is mainly made from Petrol, GOOGLE it.

nicko wrote:Kerosene is mainly made from Petrol,   GOOGLE it.

Fuck Google...        

Kerosene can also be made from other mineral based oils besides petroleum..

And from certain plant (i.e. 'vegetable') sources;  even certain types of trees..
It can easily be "transitioned" across to total plant-based production..

Some airlines and manufacturers are already trialling vegetable-based fuels, for the day that petroleum fuels simply become too expensive.          


ALSO,  re: Biodiesels  --  that quote that sassy referenced earlier has Palm Oil  as a major source of biodiesel..  That claim is erroneous --  it may be a major source in SE Asia and parts of Europe, but in the bigger scheme of things, Canola, sunflower and safflower are more prevalent.  While soyabeans and Hojoba are also providing biofuels from Mexico, down through Brazil and Argentina..

Ethanol and Methane are another couple of familiar vegetable-based fuel sources...        

nicko wrote:Don't be picky.    How do they get the Kerosene to the Aircraft?

With petrol or diesel lorries.

Which can also be converted to run on LPG, LNG or bio_fuels...

I understand that Wolfie, but how long will it take to convert the millions and millions of petrol driven cars and lorries, baring in mind the number that can't be converted?

China just makes new ones for us to buy
and we recycles the old junkers for metal.

how long it will take is simply how long they are given.
if you outlawed them in 5 years with 5 years notice, you'd find it takes 5 years.
they are only still around because it is more profitable to run the old machines for longer. and that includes the machines that make petrol engines.

so all you clever dicks....


we ban "fossil fuel motors"

can you ALL afford to go out tomorrow and buy an exact replcement vehicle at £50,000 plus

there is NO affordable effective replcement for our landrover defender that has the pulling power shitclimbing rough road handling ability to match

there is NO affordable replcement for our big van (soon to be camper) in terms of endurance)(miles between charge and no place to recharge in the wood so would need a range of 400miles MINIMUM)
that can carry 2.5 tonne...that can rough road as well...(FWD)

charging takes for ever.....so not a case of a quick call to the fuel station.....

can you ALSO afford about £6000-10,000 every 5 years or so for a new set of batteries....???

or is kindly old "Jeremy" going to offer us all a one for one free replacement with a suitable vehicle that matches our needs?

as for hydrogen.....whoops there goes the hindenburg ...as the song says....the pressure you would need to store enough to go even 100 miles is horrendous.....(hint...liquifying hydrogen ISNT trivial...) Bio fules cut into land needed for food and as Nicko rightly points out wild areas too.....

When Trump and Putin have had their nuclear war with China, we will all be living off the grid, firewood for heating and cooking and horses for transport.
Nuclear bunkers and huge wealth will be as useful as a condom in a monastry.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

nicko wrote:Don't be picky.    How do they get the Kerosene to the Aircraft?

With petrol or diesel lorries.

Which can also be converted to run on LPG, LNG or bio_fuels...

bio diesle possibly though not all can handle it...my van can only handle 10% biodiesel without causing expensive problems

however a diesel engine CANNOT be made to work on LPG/LNG it simply does NOT "compression ignite" at any sensible cylinder pressure It NEEDS a spark to fire it and its burn characteristics are not nice in a high compression engine. NOT to mention of course that the diesel acts as an upper cylinder lubricant for the engine....or that the exhaust valve timings are vastly different and the valve seats un suitable....

PETROL engines can be easily converted however and run well on LPG.....

Handy Andy wrote:When Trump and Putin have had their nuclear war with China, we will all be living off the grid, firewood for heating and cooking and horses for transport.
Nuclear bunkers and huge wealth will be as useful as a condom in a monastry.

Well...that added a lot to the debate didnt it....

At least I didn't make a veiled post about burka weari g arabs stealing our oil or pricing us out of the market. North Sea oil is running out. Fracking yeild is unknown and import costs are at the whim of those who supply it.
Regardless of cost, we need to seek alternatives and improve those alternatives that already exist.

Handy Andy wrote:When Trump and Putin have had their nuclear war with China, we will all be living off the grid, firewood for heating and cooking and horses for transport.
Nuclear bunkers and huge wealth will be as useful as a condom in a monastry.

We will be eating the horses.

Do you think monks use condoms or not?

Lord Foul wrote:so all you clever dicks....


we ban "fossil fuel motors"

can you ALL afford to go out tomorrow and buy an exact replcement vehicle at £50,000 plus

there is NO affordable effective replcement for our landrover defender that has the pulling power shitclimbing rough road handling ability to match

there is NO affordable replcement for our big van (soon to be camper) in terms of endurance)(miles between charge  and no place to recharge in the wood so would need a range of 400miles MINIMUM)
that can carry 2.5 tonne...that can rough road as well...(FWD)

charging takes for ever.....so not a case of a quick call to the fuel station.....

can you ALSO afford about £6000-10,000 every 5 years or so for a new set of batteries....???

well that why You don't buy shit made in the UK (or Australia)
it's like 5 times the price of the Chinese one

We should really Start the Fossil fuel ban in the UK
maybe if you lower wages and get some more migrants
you can even compete with China in Manufacturing.


P.S> all your complaints boil down to you'd have to change your routine and you have an old vehicle that would need upgrading. which are not really problems at all they are just and old coot being selfish.

Handy Andy wrote:When Trump and Putin have had their nuclear war with China, we will all be living off the grid, firewood for heating and cooking and horses for transport.
Nuclear bunkers and huge wealth will be as useful as a condom in a monastry.

That won't happen. There will never be a nuclear war in our lifetime.

veya_victaous wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:so all you clever dicks....


we ban "fossil fuel motors"

can you ALL afford to go out tomorrow and buy an exact replcement vehicle at £50,000 plus

there is NO affordable effective replcement for our landrover defender that has the pulling power shitclimbing rough road handling ability to match

there is NO affordable replcement for our big van (soon to be camper) in terms of endurance)(miles between charge  and no place to recharge in the wood so would need a range of 400miles MINIMUM)
that can carry 2.5 tonne...that can rough road as well...(FWD)

charging takes for ever.....so not a case of a quick call to the fuel station.....

can you ALSO afford about £6000-10,000 every 5 years or so for a new set of batteries....???

well that why You don't buy shit made in the UK (or Australia)
it's like 5 times the price of the Chinese one

We should really Start the Fossil fuel ban in the UK
maybe if you lower wages and get some more migrants
you can even compete with China in Manufacturing.


P.S> all your complaints boil down to you'd have to change your routine and you have an old vehicle that would need upgrading. which are not really problems at all they are just and old coot being selfish.

HEY...asshole....

I can afford it if pushed.......can you ???

and who wants a china made pile of crap.....

(think exploding skeatboards X 1000)


there must be a load of good stuff in china, cos they have only ever exported shite......

and NO its not merely a change of routine....

the camper particularly is there for a PURPOSE

(so we can stay and enjoy being at the wood land for days at a time....)

how do you suggest we "change" that routine????

planning law forbids habitable building (of any sort) in woodland

tents are out of the question in view of er indoors arthritis...not to mention the inherent problems therof...like drying em (it tends to rain in wales)
and the rough access track means a landrover or heavyish van (for ground clearence if nothing else)

like I said...an equivalent 1 for 1 swap.....

and NO you pea brained idiot....there is NO "reasonable" upgrade...contrary to your fellow auzzies ravings...diesel CANNOT be converted to LPG/LNG and anyone making out so is a snake oil salesman......and many cannot use more than 10% biodiesel in the fuel mix without the risk of serious damage....
electric vehicles ATM are
1)shit
2)technically shit
3)DANGEROUS shit
4 shit
5) £6000 plus every 5 years for new batteries shit
6)expensive shit
7)not ebven suitable to do any amount of work shit
8 useless off road shit
9)shit
10) repeat the above list....

AND I think I know considerably more about the "technicalities" of this shit than YOU....

If you want a machine thats going to merely beetle down the motorway a few miles and back or into town and back and look all "smart" then fine

want something to do a job with and you are screwed unless you are prepared to pay £££££££££££

I'm waiting for the first one to get trashed by a hgv and the battery pack punctured you think a ruptured fuel tank is something to worry about???? wait till you have 30-40 Lbs of lithium exposed to the air.....

not to mention of course that untill an "expert" comes to disable the power...NO fireman is going to attempt to cut you out of the wreck for fear of electrocution....

319 volts DC in that there power pack.......

the only reason they cannot use more than 10% ethonol is because the rubber used in the hoses.

ALL can be manufactured to run on ethonol

NO you are not meant to keep you old Vehicle that is the FUCKING POINT
NO you are NOT MEANT to keep living the wwasteful lifestyle you do again THAT IS THE FUCKIGN POINT

You seem to think the point is to let people keep living in the wasteful manner you do. it is to STOP IT. the Point is soceity and the WORLD CANNOT COPE with so many selfish arseholes that can be bothered changing to somethign that wont kill the fucking planet!!!

and electric vehciles are already better than that you are looking at OLD SHIT again.

You keep forgetting we make it better every month, year after year! 5 years is PLENTY OF FUCKING TIME if we dont sit on our ass navel gazing and Pondering yesterday, like is the fashion in the UK and europe

I'm with Veya in this entirely. We are wrecking the planet and ourselves, with this poison.

eddie wrote:I'm with Veya in this entirely. We are wrecking the planet and ourselves, with this poison.

well I'm glad
I know i am passionate about it and can come off as raving.


but I expect to be carbon neutral myself with in a few years
the killer is batteries to store the solar power
and To have people makign the same excuses from 20 years ago like
thousands of poeple have not invested vast amounts of time and intellect,
Plus Billions of Dollars to Sovle them in that time.

We can do it , but we need to Force people because people are too lazy and will too easily make and uses excuses for inaction.

nicko wrote:
I understand that Wolfie,   but how long will it take to convert the millions and millions of petrol driven cars and lorries, baring in mind the number that can't be converted?

THAT'S why I started off by mentioning a 20--30 year changeover period earlier --  and not the "preferably yesterday" suggestions that many dreamers and political activists, and self-titled "futurists", like to bandy about..

And then there's one simple and inescapable basic truth --  easily extracted oil supplies will start running short well within the next 10--15 years;  and petroleum will be so expensive in many places that many people won't be able to afford to run the average petrol, and even diesel, powered cars of today.  

Whether they want to or not..


And then there's the pollution --  ever increasing smog levels, combined with ever present traffic congestion,  means that many internal combustion engines will be banned from big cities --  the likes of Shanghai, Tokyo, Mexico City, Moscow, New York, London, Paris, --  within the next decade..

It's only a matter of when, not if...  
They really won't have much choice..        

Yawn.. said. Nicko.
Thats bollocks. Said  Monkey.
I blame the Muzzies. Said Piles.
I blame Corbyn. Said Rugs.
Ouch. Said Syl as she sat on the fence and got a splinter in her buttock.
COULDN'T AGREE MORE.
Chorussed the intelligent and sensible posters such as Irn, Sassy, 4ever, Jules, myself, Quill, Ben and Veya

veya_victaous wrote:the only reason they cannot use more than 10% ethonol is because the rubber used in the hoses.

ALL can be manufactured to run on ethonol

DONT talk out of your ass...NO Deisel can run on ethanol bio diesel is different stuff altogether
ethanol is ONLY suitable for peterol vehicles...
you are as stupid as Tommy.....try doing some reading around the subject

ALSO.....diesel engines would not run on these fuels even IF you could provide a spark, the power point is different hence they would rev higher and the gearing is all wrong...by a long way....

NO you are not meant to keep you old Vehicle that is the FUCKING POINT
NO you are NOT MEANT to keep living the wwasteful lifestyle you do again THAT IS THE FUCKIGN POINT

You seem to think the point is to let people keep living in the wasteful manner you do. it is to STOP IT. the Point is soceity and the WORLD CANNOT COPE with so many selfish arseholes that can be bothered changing to somethign that wont kill the fucking planet!!!

I suggest we cull all non pure aboriginals and westeners in auzzie land, destroy the infrastructure and leave it to the surviving REAL aboriginees

as for keeping...well a 1 for 1 swap.....

What are biofuels and how do they work?

Bioethanol is an alcohol which is made from plants (biomass). Sugar cane, sugarbeet and cereals (wheat and barley) are the most common sources of the fuel. The production first uses enzyme amylases to convert a feedstock crop into fermentable sugars. Yeast is then added to the 'mash' to ferment the sugars to alcohol and carbon dioxide, the liquid fraction being distilled to produce ethanol.

Being a liquid at room temperature, bioethanol can be handled in a similar way to conventional petrol. Bioethanol can be used in spark-ignition engines with little or no modification as a low percentage alcohol-petrol blend ('E10' is 10% ethanol) or as pure alcohol fuel in modified vehicles.

To convert a conventional spark-ignition engine vehicle to run on pure bioethanol requires adjustment of the ignition timing, and the fitting of a larger fuel tank due to the fuel's low energy density. As alcohol fuels degrade certain types of rubber and metals, some engine components may also need to be replaced.



Pure bioethanol is difficult to vaporise at low temperatures, so it is usually blended with a small amount of petrol to improve ignition (E85 is a common high percentage blend). Several manufacturers now offer 'Flex-Fuel Vehicles' or 'FFVs', which are able to run on any percentage of bioethanol blend up to E85 (see below).



Biodiesel is commercially produced by the 'esterification' of energy crops such as oil seed rape or from waste vegetable and animal oils (from the food industry). The oils are first filtered to remove water and contaminants and are then mixed with an alcohol (usually methanol) and a catalyst. This breaks up the oil molecules before they are separated and purified.

Low percentage biodiesel blends (B5) can be used in place of mineral diesel without any engine modification in many diesel engines (a 'B5' blend is 5% biodiesel mixed with 95% mineral diesel).

While some diesel cars will also run on higher percentage biodiesel blends, their use can degrade rubber products (such as fuel pipes) and clog fuel injectors in certain conditions. To reduce the risk of these problems, users of ester-based biodiesels should ensure the fuel's compliance with EN14214.






Both biodiesel and bioethanol are liquid at room temperature, and so can be dispensed from fuel pumps in the same way as conventional liquid fuels. It is likely that you have already driven on ethanol as it is routinely added to petrol (as a 5% blend) to improve octane ratings and as an oxygenate additive (to reduce carbon monoxide emissions).



Commercially produced higher percentage blends are still relatively new to the UK, and the distribution of biofuel pumps (at standard fuel stations) is therefore not as established as conventional mineral fuels.




Of the two fuels, biodiesel is more widely available across the UK (see below). A small network of bioethanol stations were being established by the supermarket chain Morrisons, however, a review of Government subsidies reduced the economic viability of these stations which were eventually withdrawn. As a result, bioethanol filling station are virtually non-existent.  (should damn well be brought back)




http://www.nextgreencar.com/biofuels.php

veya_victaous wrote:and electric vehciles are already better than that you are looking at OLD SHIT again.

You keep forgetting we make it better every month, year after year! 5 years is PLENTY OF FUCKING TIME if we dont sit on our ass navel gazing and Pondering yesterday, like is the fashion in the UK and europe

I) they all use Lion cells

wait till one gets its battery pack punctured

2) there is STILL no acceptable SUV type vehicle in electric at anything like a sensible price

3) there is no acceptable "large van" type in electric with decent range and ability...only cardboard boxes on wheels....

4) battery packs need changing every 5 years or so at massive cost.....

NOW i would have NO objection to changing to an electric vehicle IF and I MEAN IF there was a "suitable one" at a sensible exchange price

I.E YOU mr govt give me the forseable market price ...as IF it was sold on the open market under normal circumstances ...for my old vehicle AND a decent discount on the replacement...

Alternatively .......you ban , say in 5 years time the sale/manufacture and import of fossil fueled vehicles.....but continue to allow the fossil fules to be supplied....

in that way the change over would be "automatic", spread over time, easy on the individuals as vehicles aged and folks got new vehicles as a matter of course. There is NO need for a "STEP" change. AND whether YOU like it or not the technology is STILL shite.... made WORSE by the RoSHH regulations requiring the use of silver bearing solder...which creates joints liable to fracture (actually so bad its NOT applied to "aviation" products....)
Oh and the chinese cant solder to save their lives....

And?   So let's make sure those things are put right so that our grandchildren can breathe air that won't poison them.


Looking at the problem and saying this and that aren't right so we are just going to give up is never going to solve anything is it.   We have to invest to make sure the problems are solved or the pollution we will hand on will kill the planet.

Exactly sassy....

AND biofuels take up land that should be used for feedstuffs AND result in the destruction of "wild " areas and its wildlife....

Electric IS the way to go.....BUT

the vehicls available are ALL flash looking pussies, incapable of and unsuitable for any serious work.

Charging is an issue if you dont have access to a charging point where you can leave the damn thing for hours on end....I suppose I "COULD" arrange for such running on solar cells actually in the woodland

319V solar pannels ARE available and such a lethal voltage doesnt concern ME in the least...I KNOW how to tame that.....Its a minor irritation at best

what IS the problem is the COST of the vehicle....

YOU for instance would be screwed

can you afford to have your vehicle "taken off you" (stolen by the govt) and find instantly another £50,000 to replace it???? or even £20,000 THEN be able to afford another £5,000 plus for a home charging station?? they dont come with a charger like your laptop you know.....

sassy wrote:And?   So let's make sure those things are put right so that our grandchildren can breathe air that won't poison them.


Looking at the problem and saying this and that aren't right so we are just going to give up is never going to solve anything is it.   We have to invest to make sure the problems are solved or the pollution we will hand on will kill the planet.

do you know...I think the LOT of you are deliberately fucking thick


what did I just SUGGEST????


what part of
"Alternatively .......you ban , say in 5 years time the sale/manufacture and import of fossil fueled vehicles.....but continue to allow the fossil fules to be supplied....

in that way the change over would be "automatic", spread over time, easy on the individuals as vehicles aged and folks got new vehicles as a matter of course. There is NO need for a "STEP" change. AND whether YOU like it or not the technology is STILL shite.... made WORSE by the RoSHH regulations requiring the use of silver bearing solder...which creates joints liable to fracture (actually so bad its NOT applied to "aviation" products....)
Oh and the chinese cant solder to save their lives...."



Is beyond your ability to comprehend???

Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party is considering radical plans to ban the sale of new petrol cars in the UK, The Independent can reveal.
The bold proposal would mean only zero- or low-carbon vehicles being sold after a set cut-off date, dramatically reducing air pollution and potentially saving thousands of lives.
The move would form part of a broader and revolutionary package of measures to transform Britain into a low-carbon nation.

Other ideas Mr Corbyn is exploring include smashing the dominance of the “big six” energy firms by allowing any individual who generates electricity to sell it to their neighbours.
There is also a proposal for a new system to turbo-charge the upgrading of British homes to make them more energy-efficient, saving people hundreds of pounds on energy bills.
The policies would help Mr Corbyn fulfil a pledge to create an energy policy “for the 60 million, not the big six” and make the UK a leader in green industries creating hundreds of thousands of jobs.
But they would also draw a clear dividing line with Theresa May’s Tories, for whom environmental policy has fallen down the agenda, and see Mr Corbyn try to harness the anti-establishment sentiment sweeping Western nations, but from a left-wing perspective.

Under one potential policy option, petrol and diesel car sales would be banned from a date 10 years after the policy is enacted – if it was implemented today, no new fossil fuel car sales would be allowed after 2026.
One party source said: “It’s got nothing to do with whether the technology is there now. It is there, and this is already happening elsewhere in the world. It is only the political will that is lacking in this country.”
Norway has already announced it wants to ban the sale of fossil fuel-based cars in the next decade, continuing its trend towards becoming one of the most ecologically progressive countries on the planet. The Dutch Labour Party wants to ban the sale of petrol and diesel cars by 2025.

Labour will explore moving the UK on to three potential zero- or low-carbon alternatives to petrol cars, including electric vehicles, those powered by hydrogen cell and those fuelled by methane from biodigestible waste.
A 2015 King’s College study said about 10,000 people die prematurely in London every year due to toxic air, caused in large part by burgeoning traffic on the city’s streets.
Another party source said: “Pushing through a change like this in the UK would represent a truly radical approach to delivering clean air.”

As part of his energy and environment policy, set out during his leadership campaign, Mr Corbyn promised to “let local communities take back control of their power” by promoting the growth of more than 200 “local energy companies” within the next Parliament and supporting the development of 1,000 community energy cooperatives.
Under current rules individuals who generate electricity can only sell it back into the grid, but Labour will consider a change to allow people to sell to each other, undoing the stranglehold corporate giants have on supply.

The move by Mr Corbyn would be an attempt to show how progressive parties can fight for the anti-establishment political space currently dominated by far-right parties in Europe and the US.
He recently told socialists in Europe that unless progressive parties pushed into the space, it would be filled by “the siren voices of the populist far right”.
With the launch of his energy and environment manifesto, Mr Corbyn also pledged to “drive the expansion of the green industries”, creating some 300,000 jobs along the way.
A key part could be a fast and expansive drive to increase the energy efficiency of UK homes.

Under one potential plan being discussed, landlords would be offered very low interest loans to undertake work to upgrade their properties to a much higher standard of energy efficiency.
However, the financial help would be on a tapered basis, decreasing until a cut-off date, three years from the start of the policy for example. After that point landlords would face a penalty for letting properties that did not meet the energy efficiency standard.
A party insider told The Independent: “At first you get support. A big carrot to carry out the work. But if you ignore it and leave it, the carrot gets smaller, and you know there is a stick waiting for you if you don’t get it done.”
The move could save hundreds of pounds on energy bills for low income families living in rented accommodation.
Mr Corbyn has pledged to put modern low-carbon industries at the heart of his party’s promised £500bn investment strategy for the country.
A Labour source said: “There is a real difference in the party now to how it was before. Under [Ed] Miliband you would never get the process past the Treasury team.
“John McDonnell is a big part of the reason we are seeing a radical shift. Under him the Treasury team won’t be the obstacle it was.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/petrol-car-ban-jeremy-corbyn-labour-proposal-air-pollution-climate-change-measure-uk-a7466301.html


Part of a much wider plan, and something that other countries don't find in the least bit radical, but normal and sensible.

I'm beginning to get the horrible feeling I agree to some extent with veya

we SHOULD cull the population in britain


starting first with all the "non techies" who are full of knee jerk panic stricken demands for going beyond the present technology NOW.....and want things done instantly rather than by am sensible and reasonably affordable and equally effective route.....

first priority is investment on electric railways and distribution /reception hubs, serviced with fleets of lightweight electric vans.....GET THE HEAVY WAGGONS OFF THE ROAD They..not private vehicles are the biggets polluters and as said the private vehicle problem can be sovlved quite easily, over a relatively short time period WITHOUT causing a serious problem for anyone

why do the greeny/leftys ALWAYS seek solutions that will border on causing a revolution, rather than using common sense....YES we need to convert to electric...as fast as REASONABLY possible.....
and the way to do it is by natural attrition of the liquid fuelled vehicles.... If you do it that way in 5 years time nearly 50% of vehicles would be electric (if not more) and by 10 years nearly 95%

bear in mind the average life time of a vehicle (including losses by damage) is about 4-5 years



show me an electric tractor capable of pulling a six plough set up in clay??

sassy wrote:Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party is considering radical plans to ban the sale of new petrol cars in the UK, The Independent can reveal.
The bold proposal would mean only zero- or low-carbon vehicles being sold after a set cut-off date, dramatically reducing air pollution and potentially saving thousands of lives.
The move would form part of a broader and revolutionary package of measures to transform Britain into a low-carbon nation.

Other ideas Mr Corbyn is exploring include smashing the dominance of the “big six” energy firms by allowing any individual who generates electricity to sell it to their neighbours.
There is also a proposal for a new system to turbo-charge the upgrading of British homes to make them more energy-efficient, saving people hundreds of pounds on energy bills.
The policies would help Mr Corbyn fulfil a pledge to create an energy policy “for the 60 million, not the big six” and make the UK a leader in green industries creating hundreds of thousands of jobs.
But they would also draw a clear dividing line with Theresa May’s Tories, for whom environmental policy has fallen down the agenda, and see Mr Corbyn try to harness the anti-establishment sentiment sweeping Western nations, but from a left-wing perspective.

Under one potential policy option, petrol and diesel car sales would be banned from a date 10 years after the policy is enacted – if it was implemented today, no new fossil fuel car sales would be allowed after 2026.
One party source said: “It’s got nothing to do with whether the technology is there now. It is there, and this is already happening elsewhere in the world. It is only the political will that is lacking in this country.”
Norway has already announced it wants to ban the sale of fossil fuel-based cars in the next decade, continuing its trend towards becoming one of the most ecologically progressive countries on the planet. The Dutch Labour Party wants to ban the sale of petrol and diesel cars by 2025.

Labour will explore moving the UK on to three potential zero- or low-carbon alternatives to petrol cars, including electric vehicles, those powered by hydrogen cell and those fuelled by methane from biodigestible waste.
A 2015 King’s College study said about 10,000 people die prematurely in London every year due to toxic air, caused in large part by burgeoning traffic on the city’s streets.
Another party source said: “Pushing through a change like this in the UK would represent a truly radical approach to delivering clean air.”

As part of his energy and environment policy, set out during his leadership campaign, Mr Corbyn promised to “let local communities take back control of their power” by promoting the growth of more than 200 “local energy companies” within the next Parliament and supporting the development of 1,000 community energy cooperatives.
Under current rules individuals who generate electricity can only sell it back into the grid, but Labour will consider a change to allow people to sell to each other, undoing the stranglehold corporate giants have on supply.

The move by Mr Corbyn would be an attempt to show how progressive parties can fight for the anti-establishment political space currently dominated by far-right parties in Europe and the US.
He recently told socialists in Europe that unless progressive parties pushed into the space, it would be filled by “the siren voices of the populist far right”.
With the launch of his energy and environment manifesto, Mr Corbyn also pledged to “drive the expansion of the green industries”, creating some 300,000 jobs along the way.
A key part could be a fast and expansive drive to increase the energy efficiency of UK homes.

Under one potential plan being discussed, landlords would be offered very low interest loans to undertake work to upgrade their properties to a much higher standard of energy efficiency.
However, the financial help would be on a tapered basis, decreasing until a cut-off date, three years from the start of the policy for example. After that point landlords would face a penalty for letting properties that did not meet the energy efficiency standard.
A party insider told The Independent: “At first you get support. A big carrot to carry out the work. But if you ignore it and leave it, the carrot gets smaller, and you know there is a stick waiting for you if you don’t get it done.”
The move could save hundreds of pounds on energy bills for low income families living in rented accommodation.
Mr Corbyn has pledged to put modern low-carbon industries at the heart of his party’s promised £500bn investment strategy for the country.
A Labour source said: “There is a real difference in the party now to how it was before. Under [Ed] Miliband you would never get the process past the Treasury team.
“John McDonnell is a big part of the reason we are seeing a radical shift. Under him the Treasury team won’t be the obstacle it was.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/petrol-car-ban-jeremy-corbyn-labour-proposal-air-pollution-climate-change-measure-uk-a7466301.html


Part of a much wider plan, and something that other countries don't find in the least bit radical, but normal and sensible.

NOT>>>WHAT WAS SUGGESTED BY THE OP

WHY didnt you put this up right at the beginning?

THIS I can support and in fact corresponds to what I have been saying.....

PROVIDED fuel is still made available to older vehicles for some years afterwards, in order to accomodate those who DO have longer lived vehicles....(which would be a minority in any case)

BUT the issue still remains of "suitable" vehicles...as said there are no reasonably priced SUV (landrover type) electric vehicles or tough-ish vans

they are all low slung pussified "office pussy" type vehicles ATM all "flash chrome fancy insides" and NO endurance.

this MUST be addressed....

and it STILL doesnt detract from the fact that the technology involved is STILL "experimental"

BioDiesel

Woodruff Energy has taken a progressive and innovative step in becoming the first Southern New Jersey distributor of a soybean-based biodiesel fuel.



The company began selling the product in April 2004, to manufacturers, school districts, state, county and municipal governments, farmers and other organizations that use large fleets of vehicles.

Alternative Fuel Advantages

• Less wear and tear on engines due to better lubricity
  
• Better fuel efficiency
  
• Significant reduction in toxic pollutants sent into the environment
  

School district and other government agencies who use the biodiesel fuel will also get the additional benefit of a financial reward in the form of rebates from the federally-funded Clean Cities Program.

BioDiesel

dont bother looking to methane and hydrogen fueled vehicles (except perhaps heavy lorries etc) since its far too dangerous for the relatively exposed fuel tank of a private car

the pressures involved to carry sufficient fuel for any distance are horrendous, you cant liquify either hydrogen OR methane under any sensible conditions (why are gas cylinders for camping/barbecuing etc ALWAYS either butane or propane and methane is NEVER available in a cylinder???)

sassy wrote:BioDiesel

Woodruff Energy has taken a progressive and innovative step in becoming the first Southern New Jersey distributor of a soybean-based biodiesel fuel.



The company began selling the product in April 2004, to manufacturers, school districts, state, county and municipal governments, farmers and other organizations that use large fleets of vehicles.

Alternative Fuel Advantages

• Less wear and tear on engines due to better lubricity
  
• Better fuel efficiency
  
• Significant reduction in toxic pollutants sent into the environment
  

School district and other government agencies who use the biodiesel fuel will also get the additional benefit of a financial reward in the form of rebates from the federally-funded Clean Cities Program.

BioDiesel

http://www.woodruffenergy.com/FuelOilBiofuels/BioDiesel.aspx

https://www.deere.com/en_US/industry/engines_and_drivetrain/learn_more/biodiesel/using_biodiesel_in_john_deere_engines/using_biodiesel_in_john_deere_engines.page?

Not electric, but tractors using biofuel started a long time ago.

and how much food crop could be grown on that land...or alternatively how much of that land has been taken from effectively "wild" land and the bio diversity and wildlife on it destroyed?? how many 1000's of tons of poison and artificial fertiliser is poured on it??

how "green"

LF, we know there are problems.   That really isn't the point.   The point is we need to throw everything we have at overcoming those problems, because otherwise our grandchildren are going to die from pollution.

Food Waste to Energy
Diverting just a portion of the world's food waste to waste-to-energy systems could free up large amounts of landfill space while powering vehicles and heating homes

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/food-waste-to-energy/


Where there's a will there's a way.

yeah yeah....


we know there are problems but we havnt a clue what to do about them ...but we will do it anyway and hope for the best???????

there needs to be govt compulsion to overcome the problems...compulsion applied to the manufacturers

price controls
force manufacturers to produce the range of vehicles needed not merely girly office pussy machines.
or failing that build the bloody factories and equip them and make the feckin things HERE, using conscripted labour from the dole queues.

and so on....

sassy wrote:Food Waste to Energy
Diverting just a portion of the world's food waste to waste-to-energy systems could free up large amounts of landfill space while powering vehicles and heating homes

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/food-waste-to-energy/


Where there's a will there's a way.

me dogs would starve......

all OUR food waste goes into them...not that we have a lot of "waste"

cost of collection, transport and processing probably out weighs any benefit