Six hundred' inmates involved in prison riot at HMP Birmingham

Up to 600 inmates are thought to be involved in an ongoing riot which has spread to four wings at a privately-run jail, Sky sources say.

At least three prisoners have been wounded, including one "badly injured", and inmates have set fires at HMP Birmingham, in Winson Green.

The trouble reportedly started when prisoners broke lights, got hold of fire hoses and then one officer was threatened with a used syringe by an inmate before another took his keys.
Keys
Image Caption: An image believed to show prison door keys at the Birmingham jail

Prisoners have taken over the gym and also security equipment store which includes batons, according to Sky sources.

The inmates are believed to be in control of wings L, M, N and P at the jail, which has a capacity of 1,450.

Terrified" prisoners in another wing have expressed concern that the rioters are trying to force their way into that section.  


from    http://news.sky.com/story/inmate-badly-injured-during-disturbance-at-hmp-birmingham-10698136


20 min warning to disarm and return to their cells, any that dont comply........Shoot em down

Probably deliberately self inflicted to increase shareholder dividends.

Until we take profit out of justice, such instances are bound to reoccur and the tax payer always foots the bill.

That's the bottom line!

sex

He said: “There are people dealing with issues in here at the moment. Lots of scores are being settled because all of the doors are open.

“They are walking onto wings and dealing with people who are in debt because of Mamba. Some of these people rely on prisoner officers and cell doors to hide behind. That protection is not there at the moment.

“The people who are in the most danger are the ones who owe big debts because of drugs. If people are spotting others who owe them a lot of money they are being dealt with."


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/explosive-winson-green-prison-footage-9471850

This is what happens when prisons are run as holiday camps.
Wardens can't enter cells without knocking first.

Criminals have to be called by their first names.
Tv's in cells.
Blind eyes turned to drugs and Mobile Phones.
Pathetic.

Keep cell doorz locked 24/7, easy peasy.

IF someone MUST leave their cell shackle their handz, ankulz and waist with chainz like the Yanks do.

They need isolating from each other if you are to have any chance of changing their attitudes and behaviour...

Social care = privatised = shareholder dividends = crisis

NHS = privatised = shareholder dividends = crisis

Railways = privatised = shareholder dividends = crisis

Prisons = privatised = shareholder dividends = crisis

And the far right extremists answer to the current prison crisis is this.

TC = murder them (so much for his moderate credentials)

Private Piles = lock them up 24/7 and shackle them loik za yankz duz!

Tommy Monk = isolate them followed by inane rambling

what would you do with them then scrat

ask them nicely to desist??

like i said...give em 20 mins to comply....make sure they are all made sure of this and the penalty for disobeying.................

after that there can be no complaint about shooting them...

this is a cat b prison (violent dangerous)

these are not "nice people"

nor are they "reasonable" in any sense of the word.....

I believe the prison warders have allowed this rundown of their numbers by not standing up to the government but just keep moaning, gutless, toothless or just plain conscientious by not rocking the boat.

Ya get bugga all in this profit mad world by being mister good guy

Lord Foul wrote:what would you do with them then scrat

ask them nicely to desist??

like i said...give em 20 mins to comply....make sure they are all made sure of this and the penalty for disobeying.................

after that there can be no complaint about shooting them...

this is a cat b prison (violent dangerous)

these are not "nice people"

nor are they "reasonable" in any sense of the word.....

Well for a start I would ensure that violent blood thirsty far right extremists like yourself constantly ranting to "shoot them down" were taken out of the loop, completely, you and your ilk are so full of malicious poison and so prone to violent intent that there's no place for you in a modern moderate society, so it would need to be CAT A for you, perhaps Rampton or the like,,,as your views correspond with those of extreme far right and Islamist terrorists.

Employ another 8000 guards as that is what's needed and make G4S and their shareholders pay for this, once their training is complete fuck G4S and their shareholders (including the PMs hubby) off, then bring it back into public responsibility, educate them, train them for a purpose and then get them building our infrastructure for an early release.

I might like to point out your so called "moderate" society is eating itself and dying from the feral wolves feeding off it ....
your "soft touch pandering" to criminals of all classes, your erosion of the right to defend yourself to the hilt, and your concern for those who have abrogated OTHERS human rights, rather than for the victims is symptomatic of a sick and twisted mind...one which has "sympathy" for the very types that would happily stick you for their next fix, NOT the mind of a rational or socially caring type at all.....

as for the rest...well i suppose its all very admirable, and certainly the extra guards would help.... but.....it AINT going to happen....at least not in the forseeable future...pie in the sky...

IMO rehabilitation is a pointless exercise...it works in a very few percent (when we talk about REALLY criminal acts such as violence against the person) I'm not saying it wont work against say the "small time fraudster" or even the "petty thief" (shoplifters generally...I know there are professional gangs at it too)

BUT...just as we know some nation states can only be held together by a violent dictator, so, some people need to be held in check by the imposition (or potential for imposition) of a "nasty" prison sentence
(and again I realise that it wont deter EVERYONE thus inclined....)

levels of recedivism are far far too high.....

oh...and why are you such an arsehole to anyone who disagrees with your POV?

because you can be?

is that IT.....

becasue you should remember that what you are promulgating is MERELY your POV....

It is NOT a self evident truth, nor do you have the "right" of every argument

YOUR POV (on the subject, as opposed to the poster), whilst welcome, is NOT in and of itself necessarily the ONLY or indeed the only right one.

however of course...your reponse to my post has already delegitimised your point all by itself....your unneedful attack on ME (as opposed to my POV) renders your response impotent and invalid....

"any that dont comply........Shoot em down"

Perhaps, that's your answer to any shareholder difficulties.

Environmental protestors!

"any that dont comply........Shoot em down"

Doctors on strike!

"any that dont comply........Shoot em down"

A boat load of refugees!

"any that dont comply........Shoot em down"

Yes, and then you can try an excuse "any that dont comply........Shoot em down" by crying befehl ist befehl, strange that that was also the cry at Nuremberg!

Ah...the "slippery slope argument"

easily avoided  
firstly there is a vast difference between prison mutiny and striking
secondly, whether YOU like it or not I, personally, consider that criminals who have abrogated (seriously) anothers human rights have voluntarily given up their own...the murderer (and I WILL admit to being cautious about who gets thus classified...as in murder for gain and other such things) for instance has no right to expect HIS right to life to, of necessity, be honoured....especially if he then indulges in prison mutiny

the striker has no such regime imposed upon him
admittedly it potentially could be but then that applies no matter WHAT the current regime is.

Dont make the mistake of thinking these "rights" you hold so dear are inviolable rights...far from it

given the right circumstances they could all be swept away tomorrow

there is NO SUCH animal as a "god given right" the only rights you have are those oh so sparingly granted to you by your masters

we are all, just like your faithful hound, entirely dependant on the "good will" of "the master" as to whether we get a chewie or a beating.

scrat wrote:Social care = privatised = shareholder dividends = crisis

NHS = privatised = shareholder dividends = crisis

Railways = privatised = shareholder dividends = crisis

Prisons = privatised = shareholder dividends = crisis

And the far right extremists answer to the current prison crisis is this.

TC = murder them (so much for his moderate credentials)

Private Piles = lock them up 24/7 and shackle them loik za yankz duz!

Tommy Monk = isolate them followed by inane rambling

It is eu rules that force public sector to open up to private corporations to bid for and run public services.


But my point was that when you have a prison where the criminals are allowed so much contact with each other, the criminal mentality of each one will only ever be reinforced/strengthened/hardened by the constant exposure to the wider group of inmates, and their collective group criminal mentality that has established a sort of 'culture' among them of what is considered 'normal' and 'acceptable' behaviour etc, and in which they are inescapably immersed in, and with no other choice but to be 'one of them' etc... in fact it would be extremely dangerous for any individual one of them to appear in any way as to not be 'one of them'...!


It is the large amount of contact allowed between them all that allows the culture to exist and to grow... it allows them to create more networks of organised criminality both inside with drugs and other contraband being smuggled in and traded as well as violence and intimidation etc... but also linking up about activities on the outside too!


How can any attempt at rehabilitation of any one of them work when they are so entrenched in the group culture that is allowed to exist by letting them have so much contact with each other...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:

scrat wrote:Social care = privatised = shareholder dividends = crisis

NHS = privatised = shareholder dividends = crisis

Railways = privatised = shareholder dividends = crisis

Prisons = privatised = shareholder dividends = crisis

And the far right extremists answer to the current prison crisis is this.

TC = murder them (so much for his moderate credentials)

Private Piles = lock them up 24/7 and shackle them loik za yankz duz!

Tommy Monk = isolate them followed by inane rambling

It is eu rules that force public sector to open up to private corporations to bid for and run public services.


But my point was that when you have a prison where the criminals are allowed so much contact with each other, the criminal mentality of each one will only ever be reinforced/strengthened/hardened by the constant exposure to the wider group of inmates, and their collective group criminal mentality that has established a sort of 'culture' among them of what is considered 'normal' and 'acceptable' behaviour etc, and in which they are inescapably immersed in, and with no other choice but to be 'one of them' etc... in fact it would be extremely dangerous for any individual one of them to appear in any way as to not be 'one of them'...!


It is the large amount of contact allowed between them all that allows the culture to exist and to grow... it allows them to create more networks of organised criminality both inside with drugs and other contraband being smuggled in and traded as well as violence and intimidation etc... but also linking up about activities on the outside too!


How can any attempt at rehabilitation of any one of them work when they are so entrenched in the group culture that is allowed to exist by letting them have so much contact with each other...!?

You've blinkered yourself from the start.

German, French and Italian STATE OWNED railways are paid shareholder dividends by the BRITISH TAXPAYER!

We pay out more of our taxes to off shore shareholders than we ever did when these aspects were nationalised and yet you dangle this red herring as bait and point the stick at the EU. I'm anti EU but unlike you I'm not stupid enough to blame them for privatisation.

Prisoners should not be used as pawns in the quarterly balance sheet of G4S, they should not be regarded as a resource for private capital, we should not allow the motive of profit anywhere near the justice system, and as a tax payer I want to know why I'm paying taxes towards all of these failed enterprises.

Prisoners should be made to repay their debt to the society they've wronged, put them to work for the infrastructure of the nation, if they wish for an early release!

Get them out in the Country, clearing ditches picking up rubbish ect,

I believe a Sherriff in America makes them war pink suits when they are out.

nicko wrote:Get them out in the Country, clearing ditches picking up rubbish ect,

I believe a Sherriff in America makes them war pink suits when they are out.

Canals Penfold, I'd get them to maintain, restore, rebuild and expand our canal system!

That's an even better idea Scat.

scrat wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


It is eu rules that force public sector to open up to private corporations to bid for and run public services.


But my point was that when you have a prison where the criminals are allowed so much contact with each other, the criminal mentality of each one will only ever be reinforced/strengthened/hardened by the constant exposure to the wider group of inmates, and their collective group criminal mentality that has established a sort of 'culture' among them of what is considered 'normal' and 'acceptable' behaviour etc, and in which they are inescapably immersed in, and with no other choice but to be 'one of them' etc... in fact it would be extremely dangerous for any individual one of them to appear in any way as to not be 'one of them'...!


It is the large amount of contact allowed between them all that allows the culture to exist and to grow... it allows them to create more networks of organised criminality both inside with drugs and other contraband being smuggled in and traded as well as violence and intimidation etc... but also linking up about activities on the outside too!


How can any attempt at rehabilitation of any one of them work when they are so entrenched in the group culture that is allowed to exist by letting them have so much contact with each other...!?

You've blinkered yourself from the start.

German, French and Italian STATE OWNED railways are paid shareholder dividends by the BRITISH TAXPAYER!

We pay out more of our taxes to off shore shareholders than we ever did when these aspects were nationalised and yet you dangle this red herring as bait and point the stick at the EU. I'm anti EU but unlike you I'm not stupid enough to blame them for privatisation.

Prisoners should not be used as pawns in the quarterly balance sheet of G4S, they should not be regarded as a resource for private capital, we should not allow the motive of profit anywhere near the justice system, and as a tax payer I want to know why I'm paying taxes towards all of these failed enterprises.

Prisoners should be made to repay their debt to the society they've wronged, put them to work for the infrastructure of the nation, if they wish for an early release!

I've not blinkered myself... I'm trying to make a specific point about prisons and the culture inside them among prisoners whereby they are allowed to mix with each other too much and this just reinforces the criminal mentality among each of them making any attempt at rehabilitation pretty futile.


Plus that this open ability to mix with each other is the cause of all the other problems inside prisons with drugs/violence etc.