Only England and Wales voted to leave the EU. So the UK should let them go

by Irn Bru Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:41 am

The people have spoken and the UK stands divided. The English and the Welsh voted to leave the EU. Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to remain. Big questions arise: will Scotland want to leave the UK and/or be able to stay in the EU? What happens to the border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland and, for that matter, the entire Irish settlement? How can people be stripped of rights? What about trade? What about migration? At the time of the referendum on independence for Scotland from the UK in 2014, Scottish people faced a conundrum. If Scotland had left the UK, then Scotland would automatically have been ejected from the EU.

The Scottish nationalists said that their intention would be for Scotland to apply to become a member of the EU, but the indications from Brussels were that Scotland would have to join the queue for membership. Any Scottish application would have to be agreed by all EU states, including Spain, which is reluctant to see breakaway regions being treated kindly, given the threat of secession by Catalonia.

With article 50 looming large and the government keen to avoid lengthy parliamentary debate on the terms of departure, perhaps it’s worth considering another form of Brexit. Why don’t England and Wales leave the United Kingdom? They would be automatically ejected from the EU and Scotland and Northern Ireland would then be the constituent parts of the United Kingdom, which would remain in the EU.

Under this arrangement, the UK (by then, the UK of Scotland and Northern Ireland) would not trigger article 50 and would not leave the EU. This would mean that there would be no issue between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland in terms of trade and the movement of people across the border. The voters there would get what they voted for. Scotland and Northern Ireland could adopt the euro, if they wished. The EU land border with England would be the border with Scotland.

Read more

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/12/england-wales-eu-brexit-article-50

Seems like a sensible solution to me.

by veya_victaous Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:56 am

sounds way to logical, the English will hate it Cool

by Eilzel Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:59 am

No this Englishman. Let them go, I say.

That said, the kind of people you refer to should love it too! They get to dump their 'inclusive' 'multicoloured' Jack's and paint the skies red and white- everything they ever wanted Smile

by 'Wolfie Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:00 am

Only England and Wales voted to leave the EU. So the UK should let them go 2097912929

I AGREE...

Scotland and Ireland are largely Gaelic, with a bit of Viking...

Whilst England and Wales have larger infusions of Anglos, Normans and Saxons..

Let the UK collapse in on itself, and have a new alliance of Scotland and a re-united Eire/N. Ireland remain in in the EU. The new Gaelic alliance could still work with a new England -- the same as New Zealand and Australia, Canada and the USA, Austria and Germany.. Only England and Wales voted to leave the EU. So the UK should let them go 2089010162

Only England and Wales voted to leave the EU. So the UK should let them go 2089010162

I have Ancestors from all four places (five, considering Eire into the mix..), so I'm not particularly biased either way...

by Tommy Monk Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:51 am

We voted as the uk... the UK result was leave... get over it!!!

by SEXY MAMA Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:24 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:We voted as the uk... the UK result was leave... get over it!!!

Half of them didn't even know the bloody meaning of Brexit!

by eddie Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:43 pm

Most of the country didn't know Blair was a war-hungry crazed fool when they voted for him.

by Tommy Monk Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:23 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:We voted as the uk... the UK result was leave... get over it!!!

Half of them didn't even know the bloody meaning of Brexit!

We know what we voted for.

by veya_victaous Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:33 pm

eddie wrote:Most of the country didn't know Blair was a war-hungry crazed fool when they voted for him.

that is so not true

Blair gets a lot of unfair degradation but the British who pretend he had a choice.

He was told to Rolling Eyes

he had no option
Cause as you are learning AGAIN with Brexit
to the Powers that be Democracy is just a suggestion

Jesus I don't know any Aussie who doesn’t accept that Howard had little Choice either He was told to and it was just about negotiation the best rewards for doing what the Americans told us to do
Rolling Eyes

by veya_victaous Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:34 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:We voted as the uk... the UK result was leave... get over it!!!

Ireland and Scotland are voting England out of the UK

by Eilzel Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:56 am

veya_victaous wrote:
eddie wrote:Most of the country didn't know Blair was a war-hungry crazed fool when they voted for him.

that is so not true

Blair gets a lot of unfair degradation but the British who pretend he had a choice.

He was told to
he had no option
Cause as you are learning AGAIN with Brexit
to the Powers that be Democracy is just a suggestion

Jesus I don't know any Aussie who doesn’t accept that Howard had little Choice either He was told to and it was just about negotiation the best rewards for doing what the Americans told us to do

Australia and the UK had no choice? But France and Germany did?

by veya_victaous Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:54 am

yes, as they are true europe and not Anglosphere, although the anglosphere tends to dominate europe, we don't always.

the worst that can be truly said about Blair is he was a shit negotiator that got no where near the dollar value in rewards from the Americans that he could of for joining. While I generally dislike Howard he was a lot smarter and better negotiator than Bush

While we did have choice but not one with out consequences, that could have been quite dire.
Neither that you mentioned are part of five eyes, which is the espionage arm of the anglosphere Wink

So not as intimately bound as we are
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

by 'Wolfie Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:15 am

Only England and Wales voted to leave the EU. So the UK should let them go 3758365944

"FIVE EYES"...

I've mentioned that alliance previously on a couple of other threads this past year..

Considered as the leading intelligence-sharing alliance in the world, apparently both Europe, and Russia and it's near neighbours, have both been scrambling to form another couple of consortiums to try and match us..

by Tommy Monk Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:42 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:We voted as the uk... the UK result was leave... get over it!!!

Ireland and Scotland are voting England out of the UK

1, 661,191 people in Scotland voted to stay in the eu...

2,001,926 people in Scotland voted to stay in the UK.

by SEXY MAMA Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:15 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Half of them didn't even know the bloody meaning of Brexit!

We know what we voted for.

Of course you did dear!

by Tommy Monk Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:41 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

We know what we voted for.

Of course you did dear!

Yes!

We know what we voted for!

by SEXY MAMA Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:45 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Of course you did dear!

Yes!

We know what we voted for!

We?

Have you forgotten your own native language there Tommy?

How Ironic I must say!

by Guest Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:55 pm

Discussing earlier in the thread how the fall in the £ is causing trouble for companies who get their parts/ingredients etc from abroad, Tommy couldn't seem to understand it:

Brexit hits Pink wafer maker Rivington Biscuits as it goes into administration cutting 100 jobs
Administrator FRP Advisory said a ‘sustained deterioration’ since the vote had caused problems at the Wigan-based company

Rivington Biscuits, the maker of Pink Panther wafers, has gone into administration, blaming the fall in the value of the pound following the Brexit vote.
The company, a key employer in Wigan, which voted to leave the EU by nearly 64 per cent, said will it cut 99 of its 123 staff, as a result.

Another 24 people have been kept to honour orders into the new year.
Rivington Biscuits’ financial position worsened in the wake of the June referendum, as the slump in the value of the pound pushed up the cost of ingredients used to make its biscuits.
Rivington’s demise underlines the lack of pricing power among smaller firms unable to pass the price rises on to its supermarket customers.
FRP Advisory, which is handling the liquidation of BHS, the high street chain previousl‎y owned by Sir Philip Green, has been appointed as Rivington’s administrators.

FRP said in a statement: “A sustained deterioration in trading conditions, and significant additional pricing costs since the summer following the sharp fall in the value of the pound, left the business facing unsustainable cash-flow pressure.”
The pound has fallen by around 16 per cent against the US dollar since Britain voted to leave the EU in June. This already means that any goods brought in from outside the UK will be more expensive.
“It looks inevitable that consumer purchasing power will deteriorate markedly over the coming months as inflation moves appreciably higher and earnings growth is limited,” said Howard Archer of IHS Global Insight.
Inflation has hit its highest level in more than two years thanks to the sharp depreciation of the pound since the Brexit vote, according to the latest prices report from the Office for National Statistics released on Tuesday.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-pink-wafer-company-administration-rivington-biscuits-cut-100-jobs-pound-sterling-value-drop-a7476881.html

by SEXY MAMA Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:57 pm

Tommy doesn't seem to understand anything!

by Guest Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:02 pm

I know, like talking to mud.

by Tommy Monk Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:33 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Yes!

We know what we voted for!

We?

Have you forgotten your own native language there Tommy?

How Ironic I must say!

More like you have forgotten that your previous post where you were claiming that half of us (who voted to leave the eu) didn't know what we voted for...

And that I'd already answered that WE knew what we were voting for!

by SEXY MAMA Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:40 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

We?

Have you forgotten your own native language there Tommy?

How Ironic I must say!

More like you have forgotten that your previous post where you were claiming that half of us (who voted to leave the eu) didn't know what we voted for...

And that I'd already answered that WE knew what we were voting for!

So you now speak for everyone who voted out? Lol

Delusional much?

Fact is the most searched question on google was WHAT IS BREXIT after the voting day.

So if you are speaking for all those that voted out it also means that you don't know the what the fuck you really voted for than doesn't it?

You can't have it both ways Tommy!

by Tommy Monk Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:15 pm

sassy wrote:Discussing earlier in the thread how the fall in the £ is causing trouble for companies who get their parts/ingredients etc from abroad, Tommy couldn't seem to understand it:

Brexit hits Pink wafer maker Rivington Biscuits as it goes into administration cutting 100 jobs
Administrator FRP Advisory said a ‘sustained deterioration’ since the vote had caused problems at the Wigan-based company

Rivington Biscuits, the maker of Pink Panther wafers, has gone into administration, blaming the fall in the value of the pound following the Brexit vote.
The company, a key employer in Wigan, which voted to leave the EU by nearly 64 per cent, said will it cut 99 of its 123 staff, as a result.

Another 24 people have been kept to honour orders into the new year.
Rivington Biscuits’ financial position worsened in the wake of the June referendum, as the slump in the value of the pound pushed up the cost of ingredients used to make its biscuits.
Rivington’s demise underlines the lack of pricing power among smaller firms unable to pass the price rises on to its supermarket customers.
FRP Advisory, which is handling the liquidation of BHS, the high street chain previousl‎y owned by Sir Philip Green, has been appointed as Rivington’s administrators.

FRP said in a statement: “A sustained deterioration in trading conditions, and significant additional pricing costs since the summer following the sharp fall in the value of the pound, left the business facing unsustainable cash-flow pressure.”
The pound has fallen by around 16 per cent against the US dollar since Britain voted to leave the EU in June. This already means that any goods brought in from outside the UK will be more expensive.
“It looks inevitable that consumer purchasing power will deteriorate markedly over the coming months as inflation moves appreciably higher and earnings growth is limited,” said Howard Archer of IHS Global Insight.
Inflation has hit its highest level in more than two years thanks to the sharp depreciation of the pound since the Brexit vote, according to the latest prices report from the Office for National Statistics released on Tuesday.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-pink-wafer-company-administration-rivington-biscuits-cut-100-jobs-pound-sterling-value-drop-a7476881.html

http://mobile.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Business-News/Food-manufacturer-to-axe-99-jobs

Seems they really just weren't selling enough for a long time... and the pound/euro rate was weakening throughout the first half of the year too, from quite a stronger than usual position... and the pound/euro rate now is not much different than it was in may 2016...

And I bet that if there is still demand for these wafer biscuit things, it will carry on production in the biscuit factory in Holland that owns the rivington wafer company...

by veya_victaous Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:17 pm

All I know is Tommy Still doesn't seem to Understand what he voted for... he knows what he thinks he voted for but What he thinks he voted for is a fairytale that is Obviously immpossible and not going to happen. Voting to Make everything Magically Like when you used to steal off others to pay for your excess. IT IS NOT GONNG HAPPEN!!!.

You have to WORK Tommy you lazy git.

by Tommy Monk Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:28 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

More like you have forgotten that your previous post where you were claiming that half of us (who voted to leave the eu) didn't know what we voted for...

And that I'd already answered that WE knew what we were voting for!

So you now speak for everyone who voted out? Lol

Delusional much?

Fact is the most searched question on google was WHAT IS BREXIT after the voting day.

So if you are speaking for all those that voted out it also means that you don't know the what the fuck you really voted for than doesn't it?

You can't have it both ways Tommy!

You think you can speak for anyone who voted to leave the eu...!?

Is there any evidence that any one of the people who did that Google search were leave voters who didn't know what voting leave meant, or why they were voting leave?

Don't be ridiculous!!!

by Tommy Monk Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:36 pm

veya_victaous wrote:All I know is Tommy Still doesn't seem to Understand what he voted for... he knows what he thinks he voted for but What he thinks he voted for is a fairytale that is Obviously immpossible and not going to happen. Voting to Make everything Magically Like when you used to steal off others to pay for your excess. IT IS NOT GONNG HAPPEN!!!.

You have to WORK Tommy you lazy git.

The eu doesn't work... whereas I work hard for my money... and for years I have seen costs of living spiraling while wages have stayed much the same, both due to mass immigration!

by veya_victaous Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:30 pm

Yeah you keep telling your self the same lies Tommy
Exactly Like I said
You know what YOU think you voted for..
but anyone with any education or intellect knows you are dellusional and beleive make beleive bullshit Like the UK has Mass Immirgation

by Tommy Monk Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:36 pm

I voted for a return of complete control of the uk to our national parliament and away from eu dictatorial subservience.

by veya_victaous Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:28 pm

So you Voted for Poverty and Economic Collapse

It is You who seems to think that what you said means you will not be poorer and have it worse NOW that you are on your own

by Tommy Monk Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:39 pm

veya_victaous wrote:So you Voted for Poverty and Economic Collapse

It is You who seems to think that what you said means you will not be poorer and have it worse NOW that you are on your own

Don't know where you got that waffle from...

I said...

"I voted for a return of complete control of the uk to our national parliament and away from eu dictatorial subservience."

by veya_victaous Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:52 pm

which is the same thing Rolling Eyes

OBVIOUSLY to anyone that has any concept of trade and economics

You voted to set the Uk back several decades economically and put it into a postion where recovery is immposible
You voted for it so OWN IT, Or admit you voted with out the slightest Fucking Clue about what you where voting for. the More time you repeat that Nonsense sentence the more you prove it in fact You are so Ignorant you don't even realise that You make your self sound MORE and MORE ignorant by trotting out that meaningless line,

you really understood what you were voting for..... You can REPEAT the single sentence SLOGAN for the Campaign
lol!

by Tommy Monk Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:09 am

veya_victaous wrote:which is the same thing
OBVIOUSLY to anyone that has any concept of trade and economics

You voted to set the Uk back several decades economically and put it into a postion where recovery is immposible
You voted for it so OWN IT, Or admit you voted with out the slightest Fucking Clue about what you where voting for. the More time you repeat that Nonsense sentence the more you prove it in fact You are so Ignorant you don't even realise that You make your self sound MORE and MORE ignorant by trotting out that meaningless line,

you really understood what you were voting for..... You can REPEAT the single sentence SLOGAN for the Campaign

No...

I said...

"I voted for a return of complete control of the uk to our national parliament and away from eu dictatorial subservience."

We can trade with eu nations without being run by the eu...

If the eu was only about trade then we would already be in a position where we have trade as well as our national sovereignty intact.

by Ben Reilly Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:11 am

Tommy, just because you didn't understand what your vote would do doesn't mean your vote won't do what it has done.

by Tommy Monk Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:18 am

I completely understand what I voted for...

by Syl Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:45 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

I completely understand what I voted for...

Did you Tommy?
I don't think anyone knew exactly what was going to happen if we voted leave, because it seems government was so convinced the vote would go the other way....lots of things were promised, but no one seems to know where their mouth is in order to put money in it.

I wouldn't change my out vote because ultimately I think we will benefit, but I feel let down that all the powers that be seem to be a lot more unsure of what's going to happen and when than they led people to believe.

by Tommy Monk Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:15 pm

Syl wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

I completely understand what I voted for...

Did you Tommy?
I don't think anyone knew exactly what was going to happen if we voted leave, because it seems government was so convinced the vote would go the other way....lots of things were promised, but no one seems to know where their mouth is in order to put money in it.

I wouldn't change my out vote because ultimately I think we will benefit, but I feel let down that all the powers that be seem to be a lot more unsure of what's going to happen and when than they led people to believe.

I know exactly what I voted for!

The weaseling/stalling/delaying and all the nonsense propaganda fearmongering waffle from the remainiacs needs to stop, and the actions needed to deliver our parliamentary sovereignty and democracy back to us have to start happening!

by Syl Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Yes, but what you voted for and what you actually get may not tally. Laughing

by Tommy Monk Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:26 pm

Then we won't have what we voted for... and that will be a massive problem for the politicians at the next election...

17.5 million people voting for Ukip would be interesting...

by scrat Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:34 pm

I think the British people got it right, the EU exposed its colours during the Greek crisis, German banks looting a country that could never in a million years live within its means, and the French being notoriously otiose would simply allow the Germans to rule Europe at the behest of corporate greed, this is/was on the cards, Britain was only there to make a financial contribution, we're better off on our own!

by Tommy Monk Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:38 pm

The euro has been the ruin of some eu countries.

by Syl Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:14 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Then we won't have what we voted for... and that will be a massive problem for the politicians at the next election...

17.5 million people voting for Ukip would be interesting...

I don't see that happening because I believe most decent people just want a fair society for all.

A good charismatic, genuine, honest and forthright politician could change everything round....cant see one of them around anywhere though. Shocked

by Tommy Monk Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:20 pm

There is no fair society unless democracy is properly restored.

by nicko Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:30 pm

unusual, but I agree 100% with Scrat.

by 'Wolfie Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:01 pm

WHAT the likes of Tommy and Syl seem oblivious to, is that Britain simply doesn't have the requisite resource base to rebuild it's economy to what it was 50 years ago; simply because the "British Empire" was founded on natural resources looted from foreign climes over the previous 400 years...

And, sad to say, that horse has bolted, never to return..

And for Scrat and Nicko -- it should be remembered that London remains the Financial Epicentre for that part of the world.

Maintaining England's importance in the Germany--France--UK economics/business trade troika..
Those who work in the financial sector in Britain are still making a killing, even while your manufacturing, services and resources sectors are wallowing and struggling... Only England and Wales voted to leave the EU. So the UK should let them go 3893789544

Only England and Wales voted to leave the EU. So the UK should let them go 3893789544

by Tommy Monk Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:15 pm

We voted to return democracy.

by scrat Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:35 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

WHAT the likes of Tommy and Syl seem oblivious to, is that Britain simply doesn't have the requisite resource base to rebuild it's economy to what it was 50 years ago; simply because the "British Empire" was founded on natural resources looted from foreign climes over the previous 400 years...

And, sad to say, that horse has bolted, never to return..

And for Scrat and Nicko -- it should be remembered that London remains the Financial Epicentre for that part of the world.

Maintaining England's importance in the Germany--France--UK economics/business trade troika..
Those who work in the financial sector in Britain are still making a killing, even while your manufacturing, services and resources sectors are wallowing and struggling...

78% of our GDP is lifted from the service sector and you're quite right our financial sector is massive and global, London is not simply a European financial hub it's a global financial hub, the money industry and money lending businesses are not waiting for the government to seek a deal they're already way ahead of the curve on this.

Deutsche Bank are in the middle of a shit storm, they've invested heavily in hybrid shares (like Cocos) which convert debt to assets then back to debt, Australia is also heavily leveraged in this area, and if these chickens come home to roost they'll be more QE which means more debt, which means more austerity, we're all in this spiral of decline.

The EU is in financial meltdown, the backlash has already begun, maybe it's terminal!

by veya_victaous Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:19 am

no it is a gateway to Europe in finance sector
really that's all, if you are not allowed to trade in the EU
that industry will close too.

Wolf is right

by Irn Bru Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:27 am

During the Indy referendum Westminister politicians were lining up to tell the Scottish voters that if the wanted to remain in the EU then they had to vote to remain in the UK or else we are out. So by a small majority Scotland voted to stay part of the UK and now we find we are heading out of the EU.
WE were lied and and now we are being betrayed so the government should honiur the statements they made during the Indy Ref and insist on a deal whereby Scotland remains in the EU.

Nothing else will do.

by scrat Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:34 am

veya_victaous wrote:no it is a gateway to Europe in finance sector
really that's all, if you are not allowed to trade in the EU
that industry will close too.

Wolf is right

Your ignorance on these matters is tainted by your loathing for Great Britain, knowing your background this becomes self apparent, however your own land is so heavily leveraged to junk bonds that you are as equally dependant on the UK as is the German financial system, in effect the EU could bring you down with it, and then you'll be forced to enter a budget that gains the approval of the European Central Bank before they start repossessing your soul!

by scrat Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:54 am

Irn Bru wrote:During the Indy referendum Westminister politicians were lining up to tell the Scottish voters that if the wanted to remain in the EU then they had to vote to remain in the UK or else we are out. So by a small majority Scotland voted to stay part of the UK and now we find we are heading out of the EU.
WE were lied and and now we are being betrayed so the government should honiur the statements they made during the Indy Ref and insist on a deal whereby Scotland remains in the EU.

Nothing else will do.

The Scots are far too cannae to give up on the Union, the SNP can only ride the anti English pro austerity horse for so long before its bucks them off, Britain is better off together, Europe would swallow up Scotland and spit it out, of course all of this is dependent on the oil price.

We've entered a new era of British history, if events conspire we could be heading into a bright future, but only if we start to take on a new socialist direction!

by Sponsored content