Madonna Loves disni66a!

20th January 2014

So, she believed it was ok, she then reiterated that it was ok, then apologised.

Will she still think there was nothing wrong with saying it?  Probably.

So why did she feel compelled to change her life?

Please discuss.

Madonna on Saturday apologised for using a racial slur on Instagram to refer to her white son, a day after calling those who criticised her language "haters".

On Friday night the singer posted a picture of her 13-year-old son Rocco boxing, and included the comment: "No one messes with Dirty Soap! Mama said knock you out!" She then added “#disnigga”.

The singer quickly deleted the comment after Instagram users berated her for the use of the word, though she was initially defiant. But in a statement to the Associated Press on Saturday, Madonna said: "Forgive me."

The statement said: "I am sorry if I offended anyone with my use of the N word on Instagram. It was not meant as a racial slur. I am not a racist. There's no way to defend the use of the word. It was all about intention. It was used as a term of endearment toward my son who is white. I appreciate that it's a provocative word and I apologise if it gave people the wrong impression."

Besides Rocco, Madonna has three other children, including Lourdes, David and Mercy. Mercy and David are black, adopted from the African nation of Malawi.

Earlier this month, Madonna posted a photo of Rocco and his two young friends holding up bottles of liquor. She defended the post as a joke, posting on Instagram: "No one was drinking we were just having fun! Calm down and get a sense of humor! Don't start the year off with judgement!"


http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/jan/18/madonna-apologises-racial-term-instagram

Seems she was desperately trying to legitimize her own use of a term that is not socially acceptable in America for white people to use. She should have known better, but she probably hasn't been in touch with the ordinary American's view since the '90s at the latest.

And yet it seems acceptable for blacks to use it.

sphinx wrote:And yet it seems acceptable for blacks to use it.

Yes, it is.

How can that be? If a word is offensive how can it matter who says it? It it is only offensive according to context how can context be decided on colour of skin?

Because of two-and-a-half centuries of black slavery in North America; the use of the "n" word to terrorize and demean the black population; segregation, the KKK, etc. It's a lot like how you can call someone you're close with names you'd never call a stranger, and it's still a really sensitive topic here in the U.S. It will eventually change, of course.

Just to add, many older black Americans remain appalled that younger black people use the word with each other, because they went through a lot more of the bad stuff.

I also think black people in America use the word as a form of defiance about what happened in the past and an empowerment, by taking the word back.

Ben_Reilly wrote:Just to add, many older black Americans remain appalled that younger black people use the word with each other, because they went through a lot more of the bad stuff.

I can certainly understand that, but perhaps the kids think that it takes the 'sting' out of it by using it themselves.

I just think it is as insulting to say permission to use it is based on skin colour as was the original word.

Sassy wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Just to add, many older black Americans remain appalled that younger black people use the word with each other, because they went through a lot more of the bad stuff.

I can certainly understand that, but perhaps the kids think that take the 'sting' out of it by using it themselves.

Absolutely true. You also see younger gay people doing the same thing, calling one another "dykes" or "fags." They generally don't like it when straight people call them that, but some folks (like San Francisco native MC Frontalot, who they know isn't a homophobe), can get away with it. Like this:

sphinx wrote:I just think it is as insulting to say permission to use it is based on skin colour as was the original word.

I would call that quite the radical interpretation. And anyway, the vast majority of white people who want it to be acceptable for them to use the word are racists.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

sphinx wrote:I just think it is as insulting to say permission to use it is based on skin colour as was the original word.

I would call that quite the radical interpretation. And anyway, the vast majority of white people who want it to be acceptable for them to use the word are racists.

I dont want it to be acceptable

But I want even less for a person to be attacked for saying it based on the colour of their skin.

If Madonna had been black would this have happened?

No, if she'd been black it wouldn't have created this uproar, because she would have been part of the group that was and is demeaned to this day by the term, rather than part of the group that did and does use the term as the most offensive racial slurs in American English:

http://niggermania.com/

(By the way, I feel really scummy posting a link to that site on this day, of all days ...)

Ben_Reilly wrote:No, if she'd been black it wouldn't have created this uproar, because she would have been part of the group that was and is demeaned to this day by the term, rather than part of the group that did and does use the term as the most offensive racial slurs in American English:

http://niggermania.com/

(By the way, I feel really scummy posting a link to that site on this day, of all days ...)

So racism pure and simple then - if a black person says the word it cannot possibly be an insult or a slur (because slavery was after all white mans invention and only ever perpetrated on black people by white people) while if a white person says it there is no way it can be anything other than a racial slur even if the person they say it to is also white.

Oh for God's sake Sphinx, don't you think that an American, living in America, will understand the situation and the context in which it is used, and the reasons for it's use, more than you. Young black men use it as a way of taking back the word and empowering themselves. It doesn't empower a white person to use it, because it's never been used about them or against them.

We need a smiley that demonstrates something going straight over peoples heads.

sphinx wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:No, if she'd been black it wouldn't have created this uproar, because she would have been part of the group that was and is demeaned to this day by the term, rather than part of the group that did and does use the term as the most offensive racial slurs in American English:

http://niggermania.com/

(By the way, I feel really scummy posting a link to that site on this day, of all days ...)

So racism pure and simple then - if a black person says the word it cannot possibly be an insult or a slur (because slavery was after all white mans invention and only ever perpetrated on black people by white people) while if a white person says it there is no way it can be anything other than a racial slur even if the person they say it to is also white.

Actually, I have heard younger white people use the term on one another. In fact, once I got into a near-altercation with a young white guy who stepped up and said, "What's up, nigga?" I nearly laughed ...

It's still seen by black people as a racist term when white people use it, though. Here in America, it's just sort of a taboo thing, and I would honestly far rather excise one word from my vocabulary than have anyone think I'm so stupid that I judge people on the basis of their skin color.

Actually, I've said here before I also don't like the word c***, as here in the U.S. it's also a very derogatory term when talking about a woman.

I just think of it as polite, really.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

sphinx wrote:

So racism pure and simple then - if a black person says the word it cannot possibly be an insult or a slur (because slavery was after all white mans invention and only ever perpetrated on black people by white people) while if a white person says it there is no way it can be anything other than a racial slur even if the person they say it to is also white.

Actually, I have heard younger white people use the term on one another. In fact, once I got into a near-altercation with a young white guy who stepped up and said, "What's up, nigga?" I nearly laughed ...

It's still seen by black people as a racist term when white people use it, though. Here in America, it's just sort of a taboo thing, and I would honestly far rather excise one word from my vocabulary than have anyone think I'm so stupid that I judge people on the basis of their skin color.

Actually, I've said here before I also don't like the word c***, as here in the U.S. it's also a very derogatory term when talking about a woman.

I just think of it as polite, really.

And as stated before I do not like the word and will not use it - but I have no tolerance for a situation that sees the right to do something based on skin colour - whatever bloody colour it is.

It's not abnormal. One of my close friends and I commonly refer to one another as "pigfucker." I don't think I'd have the same reaction if someone I didn't know as well called me that. It's just human culture.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

sphinx wrote:And yet it seems acceptable for blacks to use it.

Yes, it is.

She has black kids, she probably mixes with lots of black people, who probably use the term frequently - so she did too, thinking as part of the black/white group: a token black if you like. Of course she never meant it in a racist way.

Ben_Reilly wrote:It's not abnormal. One of my close friends and I commonly refer to one another as "pigfucker." I don't think I'd have the same reaction if someone I didn't know as well called me that. It's just human culture.

Yes but you would not be deciding it based on whether the stranger was black or white would you?

They might, if 'pig fucker' had been used not only as a derogatory term about whites for example, but as a way of demeaning and controlling them. Then whites would see it as a word that blacks shouldn't use about them. And they might use the term to each other to take it back.

But in allowing the use only in one colour they become as racist as those who were previously racist to them.

2 wrongs dont make a right - racism is not going to be solved by blacks being racist back is it?

You just don't get it at all. They are NOT being racist. They are taking control of a word that was used against them. Basically, it's satire, taking to piss out of something that was used against you to deflate it's power.

Ever heard the term "honky" for white people in the U.S.? It used to be a popular racial slur that black people used against white people.

What do you think my reaction would be to being called a honky by another white person like me, as opposed to being called a honky by a black person? Do you think I'd react the same way in both situations?

Sassy wrote:You just don't get it at all.   They are NOT being racist.  They are taking control of a word that was used against them.   Basically, it's satire, taking to piss out of something that was used against you to deflate it's power.

But when a white person cracks a joke using the word, they are not being racist.

But you and millions of others would still jump down his throat and shout "RACIST"!

Ben_Reilly wrote:Because of two-and-a-half centuries of black slavery in North America; the use of the "n" word to terrorize and demean the black population; segregation, the KKK, etc. It's a lot like how you can call someone you're close with names you'd never call a stranger, and it's still a really sensitive topic here in the U.S. It will eventually change, of course.

What has that got to do with me and millions of other Brits?

Slavery in Africa? Nowt to do with me.

Slavery in the UK? Nowt to do with me.

Slavery in America? I'm innocent.

So, i'll just use it the damn well way I want.

Which, incidentally, will be very rarely, and unlikely to be used in anger.

Thanks.

Incidentally if anyone at all ought to be reclaiming the word it should be the Brits and French as the word was originally formed from the French for negroe and used by British simply as a descriptive with no negative connotations. I could of course go further into the history of the word including its no offensive use as examples of language of the times in some very famous American literature.

However it seems that in order to make up for some things some white people in other countries did those who originated the word must give it up to be owned by a single "race" which of course is not a racist solution at all   

Yeah don't bother sphinx.

When they should be fighting slavery in the Middle East, where it is flourishing, they're fighting your average white Brit who has never had anything to do with it.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Because of two-and-a-half centuries of black slavery in North America; the use of the "n" word to terrorize and demean the black population; segregation, the KKK, etc. It's a lot like how you can call someone you're close with names you'd never call a stranger, and it's still a really sensitive topic here in the U.S. It will eventually change, of course.

What has that got to do with me and millions of other Brits?

Slavery in Africa?  Nowt to do with me.

Slavery in the UK?  Nowt to do with me.

Slavery in America?  I'm innocent.

So, i'll just use it the damn well way I want.

Which, incidentally, will be very rarely, and unlikely to be used in anger.

Thanks.

Awesome! And I'll feel free to consider you a racist -- not in anger, in pity.

You're welcome!

And with sorrow for all that he is missing.

Ben_Reilly wrote:Ever heard the term "honky" for white people in the U.S.? It used to be a popular racial slur that black people used against white people.

What do you think my reaction would be to being called a honky by another white person like me, as opposed to being called a honky by a black person? Do you think I'd react the same way in both situations?

Wouldn't you? seriosuly I'm not sure where you were going with that? I would act the same, but that would be not give a fuck or correct them, I'm a Frozzie, (Frog Aussie or French Australian, whatever)

sphinx wrote:Incidentally if anyone at all ought to be reclaiming the word it should be the Brits and French as the word was originally formed from the French for negroe and used by British simply as a descriptive with no negative connotations.  I could of course go further into the history of the word including its no offensive use as examples of language of the times in some very famous American literature.

However it seems that in order to make up for some things some white people in other countries did those who originated the word must give it up to be owned by a single "race" which of course is not a racist solution at all   

Actually it is the name of a Roman General
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pescennius_Niger

Pescennius Niger (Latin: Gaius Pescennius Niger Augustus;[1] c. 135/140 – 194) was a Roman usurper from 193 to 194 during the Year of the Five Emperors. He claimed the imperial throne in response to the murder of Pertinax and the elevation of Didius Julianus, but was defeated by a rival claimant, Septimius Severus, and killed while attempting to flee from Antioch.

He wasn't event the first, just the most famous of the Family line

I think Madonna should have known better, one would expect her to be a bit more Savy about the race 'culture' in th USA

veya_victaous wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Ever heard the term "honky" for white people in the U.S.? It used to be a popular racial slur that black people used against white people.

What do you think my reaction would be to being called a honky by another white person like me, as opposed to being called a honky by a black person? Do you think I'd react the same way in both situations?

Wouldn't you? seriosuly I'm not sure where you were going with that? I would act the same, but that would be not give a fuck or correct them, I'm a Frozzie, (Frog Aussie or French Australian, whatever)

I can promise you, the vast majority of white Americans would take offense to being called something like "cracker" by a black person, just as most black Americans would take offense to being called the n-word by a white person, unless these were close friends and they allowed it.

I didn't make the rules, guys ...

Except Madonna did not call a black person it she used it to a family member the same colour as herself - so who the hell has the right to be offended by it?

This seems to be a case of black people saying look we can call our friends and family this but white people cannot.

sphinx wrote:But in allowing the use only in one colour they become as racist as those who were previously racist to them.

2 wrongs dont make a right - racism is not going to be solved by blacks being racist back is it?

FGS, sphinx. It's not a lesson in logic. Sassy said it best...it depend on context. All of language depends on context...who you are, to whom are you speaking, what you are saying, how you are saying it.

It would be pretty boring if you only followed logic, or the dictionary or Strunk & White.

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Awesome! And I'll feel free to consider you a racist -- not in anger, in pity.

You're welcome!

By all means. Lol. We've all called him that at some time. Do be our guest.

Original Quill wrote:

sphinx wrote:But in allowing the use only in one colour they become as racist as those who were previously racist to them.

2 wrongs dont make a right - racism is not going to be solved by blacks being racist back is it?

FGS, sphinx.  It's not a lesson in logic.  Sassy said it best...it depend on context.  All of language depends on context...who you are, to whom are you speaking, what you are saying, how you are saying it.

It would be pretty boring if you only followed logic, or the dictionary or Strunk & White.

And the problem with context where a white woman says it to a white relative is?

sphinx, ignore their "it depends on the context" cr4p, because I have given perfectly good examples where it clearly isn't racist (humour) but even that to them is racist.

As it is for all the other PC, liberal do-gooders.

For all of them, the N word is racist, if it comes from a white person, no matter what!

sphinx wrote:Except Madonna did not call a black person it she used it to a family member the same colour as herself - so who the hell has the right to be offended by it?

This seems to be a case of black people saying look we can call our friends and family this but white people cannot.

Yes, that is what it is. Madonna's an American, she's going to be judged by American cultural standards, and in America, most people think that white people who use that word are racists. Interestingly enough, it's because they are.

The Food Network said Friday it's dumping Paula Deen, barely an hour after the celebrity cook posted the first of two videotaped apologies online begging forgiveness from fans and critics troubled by her admission to having used racial slurs in the past.

The 66-year-old Savannah kitchen celebrity has been swamped in controversy since court documents filed this week revealed Deen told an attorney questioning her under oath last month that she has used the N-word. "Yes, of course," Deen said, though she added, "It's been a very long time."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/21/paula-deen-fired-food-network-cancels-show-after-racism-scandal_n_3480517.html

@big Andy
You better not be calling me RW        


  

So basically all this stuff about context and taking the word back and everything is just crap used as smokes and mirrors.

Black people are allowed to use the word however they like. White people are not allowed to use even when the context of use makes it patently clear that it is not being used as a racial slur but is being used in exactly the same context which is acceptable for black people.

The whites will go straight to the back of the bus and only drink from the fountains put aside for their use.

Oh FGS, are you deliberately being obtuse. The history of the way it has been used.

sphinx wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

FGS, sphinx.  It's not a lesson in logic.  Sassy said it best...it depend on context.  All of language depends on context...who you are, to whom are you speaking, what you are saying, how you are saying it.

It would be pretty boring if you only followed logic, or the dictionary or Strunk & White.

And the problem with context where a white woman says it to a white relative is?

I don't think context is a problem. It's a better understanding.

A part of context is knowing that for a white woman to use that word, it is immediately derogatory. A white person has no reason to use that word, except to insult. Blacks will use that word in other, less insulting contexts. So it is insulting for whites to use it, but not for blacks.

Original Quill wrote:

sphinx wrote:

And the problem with context where a white woman says it to a white relative is?

I don't think context is a problem.  It's a better understanding.

A part of context is knowing that for a white woman to use that word, it is immediately derogatory.  A white person has no reason to use that word, except to insult.  Blacks will use that word in other, less insulting contexts.  So it is insulting for whites to use it, but not for blacks.

So madonna was insulting her son then and the only person entitled to be offended was her son.

sphinx wrote:So basically all this stuff about context and taking the word back and everything is just crap used as smokes and mirrors.

Black people are allowed to use the word however they like.  White people are not allowed to use even when the context of use makes it patently clear that it is not being used as a racial slur but is being used in exactly the same context which is acceptable for black people.

The whites will go straight to the back of the bus and only drink from the fountains put aside for their use.

Did you really just compare taboo-ing the n-word for white people to the segregated South? Holy fuck!

The point is that there is no reason for her to use the term, other than to be insulting.

Being offended is not limited to only one person.  Aren't you insulted when you hear a white person using that term, sphinx?  I mean...just as a bystander, hearing it.  I am.  I know by context there is no reason for her to use it.

Holy shit, I'm white and I don't get to call black people n-----s without being called a racist! You know what that's exactly as bad as?

This!