Democracy - I think some people just don't 'get it'...

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:07 pm

...Maybe that's why they voted against it and also think their vote/opinions are worth more than others...!?

https://youtu.be/THWPJE4xaJM

by Original Quill Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:13 pm

It really isn't about democracy at all. It was about the boundaries within which the democracy would take shape. Would the UK fit within the greater EU?

So an EU referendum says the UK should leave. I don't know who to believe: the EU or the UK? I'll be interested to see who the UK obeys.

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:04 pm

In a democracy... the people decide... the govt enact the will of the people...

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:21 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

...Maybe that's why they voted against it and also think their vote/opinions are worth more than others...!?

https://youtu.be/THWPJE4xaJM

Pat condell telling it how it is...!

by Original Quill Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:30 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

In a democracy... the people decide... the govt enact the will of the people...

Do you not think the UK is a democracy? That government voluntarily went in to the EU at Maastricht in 1992? I believe John Major was the PM in 1992. Was he a dictator?

If so, what about his predecessor? It was a woman...um, um...give me a moment. Thistle, or Thacker?? Something like that. She must have been a dictator as well, was she not?

by Raggamuffin Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:37 am

Original Quill wrote:It really isn't about democracy at all. It was about the boundaries within which the democracy would take shape. Would the UK fit within the greater EU?

So an EU referendum says the UK should leave. I don't know who to believe: the EU or the UK? I'll be interested to see who the UK obeys.

The democratically-elected government decides - that would be the UK, not the EU.

by Original Quill Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:46 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:It really isn't about democracy at all. It was about the boundaries within which the democracy would take shape. Would the UK fit within the greater EU?

So an EU referendum says the UK should leave. I don't know who to believe: the EU or the UK? I'll be interested to see who the UK obeys.

The democratically-elected government decides - that would be the UK, not the EU.

But the democratically elected decided on the EU. And frankly, the UK electorate used the resources of the EU to hold a referendum to vacate the EU. So, aren't the hands of the UK Parliament more-or-less tied?

by Raggamuffin Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:51 am

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

The democratically-elected government decides - that would be the UK, not the EU.

But the democratically elected decided on the EU. And frankly, the UK electorate used the resources of the EU to hold a referendum to vacate the EU. So, aren't the hands of the UK Parliament more-or-less tied?

Did they really decide on it? In any case, they've now decided they want out by a majority vote.

by Ben Reilly Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:03 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:It really isn't about democracy at all. It was about the boundaries within which the democracy would take shape. Would the UK fit within the greater EU?

So an EU referendum says the UK should leave. I don't know who to believe: the EU or the UK? I'll be interested to see who the UK obeys.

The democratically-elected government decides - that would be the UK, not the EU.

So remind us of what Farage's job is these days? Just waltz in there on his own, did he?

by Raggamuffin Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:08 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

The democratically-elected government decides - that would be the UK, not the EU.

So remind us of what Farage's job is these days? Just waltz in there on his own, did he?

Huh? Mr Farage is not in the Government, he was the leader of a legitimate political party. I don't understand your question.

by nicko Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:11 am

Take no notice Raggs, they are all "experts" over there.

They don't live here but know all about it!

by Original Quill Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:07 pm

nicko wrote:Take no notice Raggs, they are all "experts" over there.

They don't live here but know all about it!

Hell, compared to you guys we are all virtuoso's over here. That is, unless Trump is elected.

I think in the cosmic mist somewhere there is a force that says, It's idiot's time now...all the idiots take one step forward and receive a wafer...Mr. Trump...Mr. Farage, come, come...

Twisted Evil

by Tommy Monk Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:35 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

The democratically-elected government decides - that would be the UK, not the EU.

But the democratically elected decided on the EU. And frankly, the UK electorate used the resources of the EU to hold a referendum to vacate the EU. So, aren't the hands of the UK Parliament more-or-less tied?

We used our money and our govt... the eu only has other taxpayers money... so I don't know what you think you are saying...!?

by HoratioTarr Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:39 pm

by Original Quill Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:46 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

But the democratically elected decided on the EU. And frankly, the UK electorate used the resources of the EU to hold a referendum to vacate the EU. So, aren't the hands of the UK Parliament more-or-less tied?

We used our money and our govt... the eu only has other taxpayers money... so I don't know what you think you are saying...!?

No tommy...what I meant by 'resources' is the legal mechanism. Your referendum was by EU law, notably the European Union Referendum Act 2015. The UK does not have a referendum system.

It really will be interesting to see what Parliament does. There is really no linkage between the EU and Parliament on the matter. The vote just sits there like a huge, pregnant cow. I get visions of MP's looking around, shrugging their shoulders, sauntering away to Simpson's for lunch.

by Raggamuffin Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:29 pm

Original Quill wrote:
nicko wrote:Take no notice Raggs, they are all "experts" over there.

They don't live here but know all about it!

Hell, compared to you guys we are all virtuoso's over here. That is, unless Trump is elected.

I think in the cosmic mist somewhere there is a force that says, It's idiot's time now...all the idiots take one step forward and receive a wafer...Mr. Trump...Mr. Farage, come, come...

Sure you are. You had a President who blatantly invaded another country, and you've got guys running around murdering police officers - all with your blessing.

by eddie Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:36 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:

Wow. Some powerful points in there.

by Guest Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:40 pm

Don't know who he is, but HT has another video of him on the shooting thread. What an idiot. Populist uprising? Does he not know that actually only 34% of people eligible to vote voted for leave. If we got people interested enough in what happens in the country, we might have a populist uprising, but what we actually have is a comotose electorate who don't give a fuck.

by Original Quill Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:52 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Hell, compared to you guys we are all virtuoso's over here. That is, unless Trump is elected.

I think in the cosmic mist somewhere there is a force that says, It's idiot's time now...all the idiots take one step forward and receive a wafer...Mr. Trump...Mr. Farage, come, come...

Sure you are. You had a President who blatantly invaded another country, and you've got guys running around murdering police officers - all with your blessing.

Sounds like your PM...we talkin' the right person here? Democracy - I think some people just don't 'get it'... 371740092

by Raggamuffin Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:02 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Sure you are. You had a President who blatantly invaded another country, and you've got guys running around murdering police officers - all with your blessing.

Sounds like your PM...we talkin' the right person here?

Are you actually denying that the US had anything to do with the invasion of Iraq? That's a new one - even for you.

by Original Quill Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:03 pm

I don't know if some of you have lived long enough to realize this, but the greatest enemy isn't the one who hits back; the greatest enemy is silence. That's what I mean when I speak of the great abyss of nothingness...its a metaphor for the greatest enemy of all.

The guy who hits back is visible, tangible, alive, corporeal, breathes and you can hit back, and potentially win. Silence--the abyss of nothingness--is nowhere, nothing, quiet, timeless, nothing to hit back, just nothing you can do.

The UK Parliament, with an EU referendum result, which is meaningless under UK law, may just greet you with the great abyss of nothingness.

by Original Quill Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:04 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Sounds like your PM...we talkin' the right person here?

Are you actually denying that the US had anything to do with the invasion of Iraq? That's a new one - even for you.

Don't play stupid. You know what I mean.

by Raggamuffin Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:07 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Are you actually denying that the US had anything to do with the invasion of Iraq? That's a new one - even for you.

Don't play stupid. You know what I mean.

No I don't. You appear to be saying that the US is never responsible for anything bad ...

by nicko Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:07 pm

Another load of rubbish from our resident "Barrack Room Lawyer"

by Tommy Monk Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:40 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:

by eddie Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:42 pm

Original Quill wrote:I don't know if some of you have lived long enough to realize this, but the greatest enemy isn't the one who hits back; the greatest enemy is silence. That's what I mean when I speak of the great abyss of nothingness...its a metaphor for the greatest enemy of all.

The guy who hits back is visible, tangible, alive, corporeal, breathes and you can hit back, and potentially win. Silence--the abyss of nothingness--is nowhere, nothing, quiet, timeless, nothing to hit back, just nothing you can do.

The UK Parliament, with an EU referendum result, which is meaningless under UK law, may just greet you with the great abyss of nothingness.

That post was like a great abyss of nothingness. Rolling Eyes

by Raggamuffin Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:10 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:I don't know if some of you have lived long enough to realize this, but the greatest enemy isn't the one who hits back; the greatest enemy is silence. That's what I mean when I speak of the great abyss of nothingness...its a metaphor for the greatest enemy of all.

The guy who hits back is visible, tangible, alive, corporeal, breathes and you can hit back, and potentially win. Silence--the abyss of nothingness--is nowhere, nothing, quiet, timeless, nothing to hit back, just nothing you can do.

The UK Parliament, with an EU referendum result, which is meaningless under UK law, may just greet you with the great abyss of nothingness.

That post was like a great abyss of nothingness.

by Tommy Monk Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:15 pm

Most amusing!

Laughing

by Original Quill Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:27 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:I don't know if some of you have lived long enough to realize this, but the greatest enemy isn't the one who hits back; the greatest enemy is silence. That's what I mean when I speak of the great abyss of nothingness...its a metaphor for the greatest enemy of all.

The guy who hits back is visible, tangible, alive, corporeal, breathes and you can hit back, and potentially win. Silence--the abyss of nothingness--is nowhere, nothing, quiet, timeless, nothing to hit back, just nothing you can do.

The UK Parliament, with an EU referendum result, which is meaningless under UK law, may just greet you with the great abyss of nothingness.

That post was like a great abyss of nothingness.

It's a little beyond those who don't have a familiarity with existential philosophy, I admit. But what the hell, if I wanted to be average, why bother? Lol.

I sprinkle these bits about hither and yon to help educate you guys. If y'all get into the habit pattern of learning, we advance the cause of reasonable debate.

See? Now you know what the abyss of nothingness means and something successful has been achieved...and I am vindicated. Razz

by eddie Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:42 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:I don't know if some of you have lived long enough to realize this, but the greatest enemy isn't the one who hits back; the greatest enemy is silence. That's what I mean when I speak of the great abyss of nothingness...its a metaphor for the greatest enemy of all.

The guy who hits back is visible, tangible, alive, corporeal, breathes and you can hit back, and potentially win. Silence--the abyss of nothingness--is nowhere, nothing, quiet, timeless, nothing to hit back, just nothing you can do.

The UK Parliament, with an EU referendum result, which is meaningless under UK law, may just greet you with the great abyss of nothingness.

That post was like a great abyss of nothingness.

It's a little beyond those who don't have a familiarity with existential philosophy, I admit. But what the hell, if I wanted to be average, why bother? Lol.

I sprinkle these bits about hither and yon to help educate you guys. If y'all get into the habit pattern of learning, we advance the cause of reasonable debate.

See? Now you know what the abyss of nothingness means and something successful has been achieved...and I am vindicated.

Hahahahaha I'll let you off. But only cos I've grown used to you Razz

by Original Quill Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:47 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It's a little beyond those who don't have a familiarity with existential philosophy, I admit. But what the hell, if I wanted to be average, why bother? Lol.

I sprinkle these bits about hither and yon to help educate you guys. If y'all get into the habit pattern of learning, we advance the cause of reasonable debate.

See? Now you know what the abyss of nothingness means and something successful has been achieved...and I am vindicated.

Hahahahaha I'll let you off. But only cos I've grown used to you

That...and you need the help. Twisted Evil

by eddie Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:51 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It's a little beyond those who don't have a familiarity with existential philosophy, I admit. But what the hell, if I wanted to be average, why bother? Lol.

I sprinkle these bits about hither and yon to help educate you guys. If y'all get into the habit pattern of learning, we advance the cause of reasonable debate.

See? Now you know what the abyss of nothingness means and something successful has been achieved...and I am vindicated.

Hahahahaha I'll let you off. But only cos I've grown used to you

That...and you need the help.

I'm not as stupid as I look geek

by Original Quill Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:55 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

That...and you need the help.

I'm not as stupid as I look

Haha...but you do need 'bringin' along'. We're working on it. Laughing

by eddie Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:56 pm

Yes and I will continue to help you too Razz

by Original Quill Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:14 pm

Never turn your back on royalty....

Democracy - I think some people just don't 'get it'... Kate-middleton-maori_nvl6w0

by Tommy Monk Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:59 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

...Maybe that's why they voted against it and also think their vote/opinions are worth more than others...!?

https://youtu.be/THWPJE4xaJM

So... anyway... back to pat condell telling it how it is about the eu referendum result... and how some don't like democracy...

by Original Quill Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:10 pm

That's not called democracy. It's called winning. Your side won, that's all.

What you won is another question. I'm betting, nothing.

by Raggamuffin Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:19 pm

Original Quill wrote:That's not called democracy. It's called winning. Your side won, that's all.

What you won is another question. I'm betting, nothing.

Well yes - in a democracy the side with the most votes generally ... er ... wins.

by Tommy Monk Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:23 pm

Not in the lefties view of democracy...

In their view... it is only their opinion that counts...

by Original Quill Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:56 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:That's not called democracy. It's called winning. Your side won, that's all.

What you won is another question. I'm betting, nothing.

Well yes - in a democracy the side with the most votes generally ... er ... wins.

So what is your problem? There never was any question about democracy. The referendum was about who wins.

Jeez, I have to take you people to school every morning. Rolling Eyes

by eddie Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:16 am

So.....has everyone "got it" yet? Democracy - I think some people just don't 'get it'... 2190311264

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:03 pm

Doesn't look like it...

by Original Quill Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:23 pm

eddie wrote:So.....has everyone "got it" yet?

Not tommy...he's still confused.

Democracy - I think some people just don't 'get it'... Is?IH2mFrKrCQZP9nYfAZ4cUVGrY-NlYKGgbs_gmeSYzeU&height=191

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:30 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well yes - in a democracy the side with the most votes generally ... er ... wins.

So what is your problem? There never was any question about democracy. The referendum was about who wins.

Jeez, I have to take you people to school every morning.

Yes - by a democratic vote. Do you not understand that?

by Original Quill Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:29 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

So what is your problem? There never was any question about democracy. The referendum was about who wins.

Jeez, I have to take you people to school every morning.

Yes - by a democratic vote. Do you not understand that?

The point is that both the UK and the referendum of the EU offered choice by democratic means. So, it's irrelevant to be whining about loss of democracy when there was no such loss.

What occurred was not loss of democracy, but one side winning through democracy.

by 'Wolfie Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:37 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:
So.....has everyone "got it" yet?

Not tommy...he's still confused.

THAT'S "situation normal" for poor ol' Tommykins...
And nothing's ever likely to change..

Everything's fine and dandy, in that case ! Cool

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:44 pm

My thinking is clear... based on truth...

See my signature...

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:26 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

We used our money and our govt... the eu only has other taxpayers money... so I don't know what you think you are saying...!?

No tommy...what I meant by 'resources' is the legal mechanism. Your referendum was by EU law, notably the European Union Referendum Act 2015. The UK does not have a referendum system.

It really will be interesting to see what Parliament does. There is really no linkage between the EU and Parliament on the matter. The vote just sits there like a huge, pregnant cow. I get visions of MP's looking around, shrugging their shoulders, sauntering away to Simpson's for lunch.

"...Between 1973 and 1997, there were 4 referendums in Britain. Between 1997 and 2000, there have been 4 more..."

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/british-politics/referendums/

And a number of other referendums have been talked of being held during this time too...!

On one hand you try to say that we have proper democracy and control of our country, so none of this is at the mercy of the EU dictatorship etc... but then you say we are only able to/allowed to have a referendum on our membership of the EU because the eu has allowed us to, and then only since 2015...!!!???

Laughing

It's all just more of the usual leftie waffle and 'double speak' from you Quill... isn't it!

lol!

Why do you keep posting stuff up as being of 'expert and informed opinion'...?

When it is really just your rank amateur and ill informed opinion that you offer, in your constant attempts to pretend you know what you're talking about...?

Your waffle is always easily shown as being the load of shit that it is.

by Victorismyhero Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:50 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

But the democratically elected decided on the EU. And frankly, the UK electorate used the resources of the EU to hold a referendum to vacate the EU. So, aren't the hands of the UK Parliament more-or-less tied?

We used our money and our govt... the eu only has other taxpayers money... so I don't know what you think you are saying...!?

No tommy...what I meant by 'resources' is the legal mechanism. Your referendum was by EU law, notably the European Union Referendum Act 2015. The UK does not have a referendum system.

It really will be interesting to see what Parliament does. There is really no linkage between the EU and Parliament on the matter. The vote just sits there like a huge, pregnant cow. I get visions of MP's looking around, shrugging their shoulders, sauntering away to Simpson's for lunch.

what you are failing to see is that there are in fact 2 mechanisms for leaving the EU

the referendum, provided for in the EU "rule book"...which provides for an orderly, negotiated withdrawal

OR

our govt could simply repeal the act by which we joined....which is messy, instant and chaotic....

the use of a referendum was in order to guage the requirements of the people and to do so (as it turned out) in an orderly and reasonable sensible fashion

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