East - West

Ben_Reilly wrote:Stupid.

Stormee wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Stupid.

Thank you for your valuable contribution.

Ben_Reilly wrote:Yes, which leads me to a thread I've been thinking about for a while but will go ahead and post shortly. Stay tuned!

sassy wrote:He's smarting because the racists of Britain First only got 1% in the London Mayor elections

Ben_Reilly wrote:Yes, which leads me to a thread I've been thinking about for a while but will go ahead and post shortly. Stay tuned!

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Yes, which leads me to a thread I've been thinking about for a while but will go ahead and post shortly. Stay tuned!

Will it be bashing the English - just for a change?

Ben_Reilly wrote:I gave you the green on that one. What's really interesting, and falls on deaf ears with the war-bent right, is that the type of rhetoric they use against Muslims is exactly what the likes of ISIS and al Qaeda show their new recruits. "See?" they say. "They hate us!" they continue.

So all their "brave" popping off about how it's the entire religion that's the problem may have actually helped lead a Muslim to become a terrorist. It should be really obvious that hate fuels hate, but they (of course) don't get it. Or they do, and they actually want to see some apocalyptic religious world war that would culminate not with victory for either side, but with the collapse of global civilization. One they wouldn't have to fight, of course.

Lord Foul wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:it's funny that cowardly people think others are blind to the thing that have an unreasonable fear of.

the left doesn't think that Islam is without problem but it thinks that Stormee and his ilk are just as big of a problem and as they are 'one of us' it is up to Us to deal with them, like we say that other Muslims should deal with the dumb fundie Muslims.

good for the goose good for the gander. since we want the moderate Muslim to remove the cowardly extermists from among them, We must set the example by doing them same and removing the cowardly extermists from the west.

Ben_Reilly wrote:I gave you the green on that one. What's really interesting, and falls on deaf ears with the war-bent right, is that the type of rhetoric they use against Muslims is exactly what the likes of ISIS and al Qaeda show their new recruits. "See?" they say. "They hate us!" they continue.

So all their "brave" popping off about how it's the entire religion that's the problem may have actually helped lead a Muslim to become a terrorist. It should be really obvious that hate fuels hate, but they (of course) don't get it. Or they do, and they actually want to see some apocalyptic religious world war that would culminate not with victory for either side, but with the collapse of global civilization. One they wouldn't have to fight, of course.

Cass wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:I gave you the green on that one. What's really interesting, and falls on deaf ears with the war-bent right, is that the type of rhetoric they use against Muslims is exactly what the likes of ISIS and al Qaeda show their new recruits. "See?" they say. "They hate us!" they continue.

So all their "brave" popping off about how it's the entire religion that's the problem may have actually helped lead a Muslim to become a terrorist. It should be really obvious that hate fuels hate, but they (of course) don't get it. Or they do, and they actually want to see some apocalyptic religious world war that would culminate not with victory for either side, but with the collapse of global civilization. One they wouldn't have to fight, of course.

I could only give a green to Ben but Veya I give you one too.

Bloody well said both of you.

Tommy Monk wrote:Pointing out the evils of Islam makes a Muslim a terrorist...?

Tommy Monk wrote:It's always someone else's fault with them... and they are always the 'victims'...

Ben_Reilly wrote:I gave you the green on that one. What's really interesting, and falls on deaf ears with the war-bent right, is that the type of rhetoric they use against Muslims is exactly what the likes of ISIS and al Qaeda show their new recruits. "See?" they say. "They hate us!" they continue.

So all their "brave" popping off about how it's the entire religion that's the problem may have actually helped lead a Muslim to become a terrorist. It should be really obvious that hate fuels hate, but they (of course) don't get it. Or they do, and they actually want to see some apocalyptic religious world war that would culminate not with victory for either side, but with the collapse of global civilization. One they wouldn't have to fight, of course.

eddie wrote:"So all their "brave" popping off about how it's the entire religion that's the problem may have actually helped lead a Muslim to become a terrorist"

Ben, Am I reading this right? Because people are moaning and going on about terrorists it makes a Muslim more likely to become a terrorist??
If that's what you're saying that's complete nonsense.

Tommy Monk wrote:About time dodge... you have finally seen the light!

eddie wrote:"So all their "brave" popping off about how it's the entire religion that's the problem may have actually helped lead a Muslim to become a terrorist"

Ben, Am I reading this right? Because people are moaning and going on about terrorists it makes a Muslim more likely to become a terrorist??
If that's what you're saying that's complete nonsense.

The militant group Al-Shabaab -- Al Qaeda's affiliate in Somalia -- has released a recruitment video featuring GOP presidential frontrunner Donald Trump.

The more-than 51-minute propaganda video comes on the heels of a war of words between Trump and Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton over her suggestion that the real estate mogul's controversial remarks about Muslims would be used to recruit jihadis.

The video includes a clip of Trump calling for a "shutdown" of Muslims entering the United States.

"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the [bleep] is going on," Trump says in the clip. The group bleeps out Trump's use of the word "hell."

Hillary Clinton Says Trump Is 'Becoming ISIS's Best Recruiter'

Trump Calls Clinton a 'Liar' Over Video Claim

'Hell No' Hillary Clinton Won't Apologize to Trump Over ISIS Recruitment Claims, Spokesman Says

Immediately preceding the message is a statement from Anwar al-Awlaki, the American terror leader who was killed in a drone strike in 2011.

Awlaki discusses America's history of race relations and his predictions for the future.

Clinton sparked a feud with Trump when she suggested during a debate hosted by ABC News that Trump was being used to recruit new jihadists.

“He is becoming ISIS's best recruiter. They are going to people showing videos of Donald Trump insulting Islam and Muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists," Clinton said during the Democratic debate on Dec. 19.

Clinton provided no specific evidence of the claim being true.

Trump went on the offensive afterwards, saying Clinton fabricated the claim.

"Knowing the Clintons and knowing Hillary, she made it up," Trump said on ABC's "This Week" on Dec. 20.

Clinton's camp clarified that she wasn't referring to a specific video but rather Trump's remarks being used on social media for the purposes of recruitment.

"She’s not referring to a specific video, but he is being used in social media by ISIS as propaganda,” Clinton Communications Director Jen Palmieri said.

Paul Ettinger wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:I gave you the green on that one. What's really interesting, and falls on deaf ears with the war-bent right, is that the type of rhetoric they use against Muslims is exactly what the likes of ISIS and al Qaeda show their new recruits. "See?" they say. "They hate us!" they continue.

So all their "brave" popping off about how it's the entire religion that's the problem may have actually helped lead a Muslim to become a terrorist. It should be really obvious that hate fuels hate, but they (of course) don't get it. Or they do, and they actually want to see some apocalyptic religious world war that would culminate not with victory for either side, but with the collapse of global civilization. One they wouldn't have to fight, of course.

And its people like you with your defense of Islam, that gives inadvertantly support to extremism, because you constantly look to defend bad beliefs from Islam.
The likes of ISIS continue to rub their hands at people like yourself who are the worst hypocrites to speak out on Christianity or bash Jews as in Israel, but when it comes to the left wing world of racism, they associate Muslims completely with racism and not xenophobia. Its the backwardhanded views that you and others have that have in fact enabled the poor narative that many Muslims believe in with the view of hate against the west.
The old dumb fuckery view, that this is all down to the west why this extremism happens, forgetting that AlQaeda was around before the second Iraq war and if you are blaming the first for where we freed a nation under subjugation, then you really are as bonkers.
The fact is many Muslims are also victims and you do nothing to aid.
I would like for you to explain how a Muslim goes from loving charity, to thinking its okay to behead people and rape young girls, thinking they are slaves?
I can show you the Islamic doctrine, which is used to justify this, but the view that western intervention makes people turn to this kind of eveil is sheer bullshit.
We have seen half a million dead in Syria, and I do not see millions of Muslims call or commit to a Jihad against either Assad or ISIS.
It shows this argument has run its course, mainly because its nonsense.
Its the naratives and conspiracies of hate against the west that the left fuel and back, that many Muslims buy into.
None of you seem to understand this terrorism has been seen before under the Ottomans, and even as far back as the "Assassins".
So again explain how a Muslim born in the US, can watch hundreds of thousands die in a civil war in Syria, think the west is at fault for this and then decide to get in on the act also?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Cass wrote:

I could only give a green to Ben but Veya I give you one too.

Bloody well said both of you.

I would have given them both reds, but I already gave Veya one today, so now I have to wait for ages.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:"So all their "brave" popping off about how it's the entire religion that's the problem may have actually helped lead a Muslim to become a terrorist"

Ben, Am I reading this right? Because people are moaning and going on about terrorists it makes a Muslim more likely to become a terrorist??
If that's what you're saying that's complete nonsense.

The militant group Al-Shabaab -- Al Qaeda's affiliate in Somalia -- has released a recruitment video featuring GOP presidential frontrunner Donald Trump.

The more-than 51-minute propaganda video comes on the heels of a war of words between Trump and Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton over her suggestion that the real estate mogul's controversial remarks about Muslims would be used to recruit jihadis.

The video includes a clip of Trump calling for a "shutdown" of Muslims entering the United States.

"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the [bleep] is going on," Trump says in the clip. The group bleeps out Trump's use of the word "hell."

Hillary Clinton Says Trump Is 'Becoming ISIS's Best Recruiter'

Trump Calls Clinton a 'Liar' Over Video Claim

'Hell No' Hillary Clinton Won't Apologize to Trump Over ISIS Recruitment Claims, Spokesman Says

Immediately preceding the message is a statement from Anwar al-Awlaki, the American terror leader who was killed in a drone strike in 2011.

Awlaki discusses America's history of race relations and his predictions for the future.

Clinton sparked a feud with Trump when she suggested during a debate hosted by ABC News that Trump was being used to recruit new jihadists.

“He is becoming ISIS's best recruiter. They are going to people showing videos of Donald Trump insulting Islam and Muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists," Clinton said during the Democratic debate on Dec. 19.

Clinton provided no specific evidence of the claim being true.

Trump went on the offensive afterwards, saying Clinton fabricated the claim.

"Knowing the Clintons and knowing Hillary, she made it up," Trump said on ABC's "This Week" on Dec. 20.

Clinton's camp clarified that she wasn't referring to a specific video but rather Trump's remarks being used on social media for the purposes of recruitment.

"She’s not referring to a specific video, but he is being used in social media by ISIS as propaganda,” Clinton Communications Director Jen Palmieri said.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/al-shabaab-releases-recruitment-video-featuring-donald-trump/story?id=36052185

eddie wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/al-shabaab-releases-recruitment-video-featuring-donald-trump/story?id=36052185

It's a story Ben. A war of words between two competitors and some Muslim bloke jumped on the bandwagon.
Clinton obviously said it for effect and to turn people away from trump.

I think it's bollocks tbh

President Obama said Sunday that by rejecting and vilifying Syrian refugees, Republicans (and Democrats who are going along with them) are doing the terrorists’ work for them.

“Prejudice and discrimination helps ISIL and undermines our national security,” Obama said. This sounds like a political talking point, but if you speak with the independent academics who actually study the mentality and motivations behind terrorism, it turns out Obama is correct.  Broad anti-Muslim suspicion and rhetoric is not only anti-American, it helps the terrorists!

I spoke with a number of our nation’s top academics who study the pathology and psychology of terrorism in general and ISIS in particular. Every single one agreed that the anti-Syrian refugee policies and rhetoric help ISIS.

“There is no place for bigotry in effective counterterrorism,” Professor James Forest, the director of the graduate program in security studies and interim director of the Center for Terrorism and Security Studies at UMass Lowell, told me. “Terrorist groups like al Qaeda and Islamic State thrive when they can exploit the vulnerable seams within a society, when they can exacerbate prejudices.”

Arie W. Kruglanski, professor of psychology at the University of Maryland, has written about how ISIS recruitment strategy is based on psychology, not theology.  And within that context, Kruglanski told me: “The refugee debate could fuel the bitterness and sense of grievance of young Muslims anywhere and could be used by ISIS propaganda machine to enhance anti-US sentiment and boost recruitment.”

“Counterterrorism tries to do two things,” explained Professor Max Abrahms, a political scientist at Northeastern University who studies terrorism. “You try to neutralize existing terrorists and you try to not breed new ones. The surest way to breed new ones is if you’re indiscriminate—for instance, punishing non-violent, moderate Muslims.”

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Paul Ettinger wrote:


And its people like you with your defense of Islam, that gives inadvertantly support to extremism, because you constantly look to defend bad beliefs from Islam.
The likes of ISIS continue to rub their hands at people like yourself who are the worst hypocrites to speak out on Christianity or bash Jews as in Israel, but when it comes to the left wing world of racism, they associate Muslims completely with racism and not xenophobia. Its the backwardhanded views that you and others have that have in fact enabled the poor narative that many Muslims believe in with the view of hate against the west.
The old dumb fuckery view, that this is all down to the west why this extremism happens, forgetting that AlQaeda was around before the second Iraq war and if you are blaming the first for where we freed a nation under subjugation, then you really are as bonkers.
The fact is many Muslims are also victims and you do nothing to aid.
I would like for you to explain how a Muslim goes from loving charity, to thinking its okay to behead people and rape young girls, thinking they are slaves?
I can show you the Islamic doctrine, which is used to justify this, but the view that western intervention makes people turn to this kind of eveil is sheer bullshit.
We have seen half a million dead in Syria, and I do not see millions of Muslims call or commit to a Jihad against either Assad or ISIS.
It shows this argument has run its course, mainly because its nonsense.
Its the naratives and conspiracies of hate against the west that the left fuel and back, that many Muslims buy into.
None of you seem to understand this terrorism has been seen before under the Ottomans, and even as far back as the "Assassins".
So again explain how a Muslim born in the US, can watch hundreds of thousands die in a civil war in Syria, think the west is at fault for this and then decide to get in on the act also?

I've never defended the belief system of Islam or any of the antisocial or oppressive practices that some Muslims perpetrate in the name of their religion. I don't advocate for anyone's rights to be infringed on the basis of any other person's religious belief, regardless of the religion.

Ben_Reilly wrote:The face veil or choosing whether to shake hands with someone are not violations of human rights, any more than nuns wearing habits or me refusing to kiss a European on the cheek as a greeting.

Western intervention does encourage terrorism. The occupation of Palestinian areas, the sanctions against Iraq, the U.S. military presence in Saudi Arabia, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay and many other injuries to Muslim people have made a small percentage of them willing to leave their old lives behind and attack Westerners, in the belief that they're defending their faith and doing the work of God, who they believe is good and just.

Paul Ettinger wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:The face veil or choosing whether to shake hands with someone are not violations of human rights, any more than nuns wearing habits or me refusing to kiss a European on the cheek as a greeting.

Western intervention does encourage terrorism. The occupation of Palestinian areas, the sanctions against Iraq, the U.S. military presence in Saudi Arabia, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay and many other injuries to Muslim people have made a small percentage of them willing to leave their old lives behind and attack Westerners, in the belief that they're defending their faith and doing the work of God, who they believe is good and just.

Ibeg to differ, as we communicate as much through our faces, and gestures as we do through actual speak.
So to say it does not effect when many people find it very rude in face toi face conbversation is again backing a belief, that is not even Islamic, but born again from the views of men to subjugate them, which you still fail to understand. They are indoctrinated to believe that it is wrong to expose any of the flesh as its them being at fault for the lust of men. You are defending that and badly so. The other again born from a belief of cleanliness, again based around sexuality for not shaking hands, all of which can be overcome with gloves.

The occupation of Palestine areas you say?
Interesting. Then please explain to me whilst they were under Jordanian and Egyptian occupation between 1948-1967 in Gaza and the West bank. This did not create the same terrorism in Gaza and the West Bank against the Jordanins and Egyptians?
You see you are talking absolute nonsense. The PLO made a charter in 1964 and did not even claim the West Bank and Gaza were occupied, when they were by both Arab nations. It called for the pre 1967 land of Israel as occupied to be free. So please spare me your poor knowledge of history on the Israeli conflict.
So military presence in Germany and occupation, with also Japan from 1945 for decades, where was all the terrorism against the west from these nations because of this?

Lets just start with those two situations for you to answer.
Either you are making a racial argument there is something wrong with arabs, or that there is something uniquely wrong with Islam?

Paul Ettinger wrote:Also you have still failed to answer.
Why would an American born Muslim, brought up with democracy, after watching for the last few years see hundreds of thousands die in a civil war in Syria, with attrocities on both sides, with only recent western intervention. Take the non-intervention by the west in this conflict, to then join ISIS, behead people, throw homosexuals off roof tops, rape little girls, thinking this is justified as to them, they are sex slaves?
You are telling me, because of Iraq, it has turned him from livbing an ordinary life, to one of what can only be described as barbaric?
Please explain that to me, because the reality is, you are talking nonsense.

Then after that, explain why the Yazidi's, Christians, Druze etc, have not committed countless terrorism, due tothe fact they have been persecuted for decades in the  Middle East?
Then explain to me because of this persecution, murder etc of many Christians, we are not seeing countless Christian terrorist attacks, where they are persecuted in the Muslim world?

Ben_Reilly wrote:Hey Paul, you're free to disagree with me, but you can't demand that I refute every last stupid thing you post. I don't think you're trying to waste my time, but you are.

Raggamuffin wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:it's funny that cowardly people think others are blind to the thing that have an unreasonable fear of.

the left doesn't think that Islam is without problem but it thinks that Stormee and his ilk are just as big of a problem and as they are 'one of us' it is up to Us to deal with them, like we say that other Muslims should deal with the dumb fundie Muslims.

good for the goose good for the gander. since we want the moderate Muslim to remove the cowardly extermists from among them, We must set the example by doing them same and removing the cowardly extermists from the west.

Why is it up to moderate Muslims to remove the cowardly extremists? If you mean in other countries which have Muslim Governments, fair enough, but we don't have a Muslim Government, so Muslims have no power to remove anyone from this country at least.

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Why is it up to moderate Muslims to remove the cowardly extremists? If you mean in other countries which have Muslim Governments, fair enough, but we don't have a Muslim Government, so Muslims have no power to remove anyone from this country at least.

And thus Raggs proves that her mentaility is the problem
Straight away trying to kill or exile people

It's an idea so to do it you EDUCATE! but typical RW style only hate all your policies always come down to hate.

THEN why Do you whinge that Muslims are not vocal enough in condeming terrorists?

You just want a war, you want extermists, obviously cause All you do is encourage Extermism with you every action and opinon BOTH British Extermists, Like Stormee and Tommy, and Muslim Extemrists through ignorant hate mongering.