Britain? Moderates? How's That Again?

by Guest Sun May 01, 2016 11:12 pm

A new poll of British Muslims found that a majority hold views with which most British people would disagree. For instance, 52% of British Muslims think that homosexuality should be made illegal. An earlier poll found that 27% of British Muslims have "some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks" at the offices of the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo last year.
Whenever opinion poll results come out, nearly the entire Muslim community, including nearly all Muslims in the media and all self-appointed groups of "Muslim community leaders" try to prove that the poll is a fraud.
If I had always known my "community" harboured such views, and a poll revealing this truth came out, I would be deeply ashamed. But when such polls emerge about the opinions of British Muslims, is that there is never any hint of introspection. There is no shame and no concern, only attack.
If there were indeed a "moderate majority," when a poll comes out saying that a quarter of your community wants fundamentally to alter the law of the land and live under Sharia, the other 75% would spend their time trying to change the opinions of that quarter. Instead, about 74% of the 75% not in favour of sharia spend their time covering for the 25% and attacking the polling company which discovered them.

One often hears about the "moderate Muslim majority." 'After any terrorist attack, politicians tell us that, "The moderate majority of Muslims utterly condemn this." After any outrage, commentators and pundits spring up to say, "Of course the vast majority of Muslims are moderate." But is it true? Are the vast majority of Muslims really "moderate"? A number of factors suggest perhaps not -- most obviously the problem repeatedly revealed by opinion polls. Time and again, the results of opinion polls in the Western world, never mind in the Middle East or North Africa, show a quite different picture from the "moderate majority" aquatint.

True, such polls can often show that, for instance, only 27% of British Muslims have "some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks" at the offices of the French satirical magazineCharlie Hebdo last year. True, that is only between a quarter and a third of British Muslims sympathizing with the blasphemy enforcement squad. On other occasions, such as recently in Britain with a new ICM poll commissioned by Channel 4, they find that a majority of Muslims hold views with which most British people would disagree. So for instance, the recent ICM poll found that 52% of British Muslims think that homosexuality should be made illegal. That's a striking figure. Not 52% of British Muslims saying homosexuality is "not their cup of tea" or that they are "not entirely on board with gay marriage," but 52% of British Muslims thinking that homosexuality should be made a crime under the law.

But it is what happens after such polls emerge that the "moderate majority" idea really comes under strain. First, of course, there is always an attempt to put a positive spin on the results. So for instance, when the post-Charlie Hebdo poll came out last year, the BBC (which had commissioned the poll) ran it with the headline, "Most British Muslims 'oppose Muhammad cartoon reprisals.'" Although true, it is not the most striking aspect of its findings. But it is what happens next that is most revealing and more truly calls into question whether we are really dealing with a "moderate majority" or, more truthfully, with a "moderate minority." Because whenever the results come out, nearly the entire Muslim community, including nearly all Muslims in the media and all self-appointed groups of "Muslim community leaders," try to prove that the poll is a fraud. It happened with the release of the ICM poll in the UK, as it has happened with every previous poll. With the exception of only one or two prominent dissident Muslims, every Muslim voice in the media and every Muslim group decided not to concern themselves with the ICM findings, but to try to pull apart the validity, methodology and even 'motives' of the poll. This is deeply revealing.

It is worth trying a thought-experiment here. Whatever community you come from, imagine your reaction if a poll like the ICM one on British Muslims had come out about whatever community you feel a part of. Imagine you are a Jew and a poll had come out saying the majority of other Jews in your country want to make being gay a crime. What would your first reaction be? My impression is that most Jews would be deeply embarrassed. Very shortly after that first reaction, you might begin to wonder what could be done to change such a terrible statistic around. It is possible, if you knew nobody of your faith who thought that homosexuality should be criminalized and had never come across this position before (or any previous polling which suggested the same thing) that you might question the credibility and methodology of the poll. But otherwise, you would probably sigh and wonder what could be done to improve things. If you knew the findings to be fairly accurate, why would you try to tear apart the findings?

Likewise, if tomorrow a poll were published of the opinions of white British people of Christian upbringing in the UK, I would take some interest in it. If it revealed that 39% of British Christians believed that wives should always obey their husbands (as the ICM poll showed British Muslims believe) then I would have some worries. If it also found that almost a quarter (23%) of British people of Christian origin wanted areas of the UK to divest themselves of the law of the land and be run instead on some Biblical literalist "take" on the law, I would worry some more. Of course, neither of these eventualities is remotely likely to arise. But let us say that it did. What would be my reaction? The first would be to hang my head in shame. And I would hang it just that bit lower if the findings came as absolutely no surprise to me. If I had always known my "community" harboured such views, and a poll revealing this truth came out, I would be deeply ashamed that what I had always known was now known by everyone else in the country.

What is most interesting then, when such polls emerge about the opinions of British Muslims, is that there is never, ever, any hint of such introspection. There is no shame and no concern, only attack. If there were indeed a "moderate majority," then when a poll comes out saying that a quarter of your community wants fundamentally to alter the law of the land and live under Sharia law, the other 75% would spend their time trying to change the opinions of that quarter. Instead, about 74% of the 75% not in favour of sharia spend their time covering for the 25% and attacking the polling company which discovered them. It is a tiny symptom of a much larger problem, the repercussions of which our societies have hardly begun to face.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7930/britain-Muslim-moderates

Good points and showing how it is how some on the left and some Muslims continually ignore problematic issues, that conflict with the well being and equality of people in British society. Where they should take this as an opportunity and the bases to formulate plans to help change this. Not as we have seen and even by some on here, try to deny the problems. What this also does is further then divides society, as the problems are not then recognized. Of those that do this, fail to grasp that their actions do nothing to help bring unity and acceptance of Muslims. They instead further furl and create further more.
What should be done is people recognise there are some issues and look to work together to help solve this.
Further research is needed here and to me more importantly. Is to see whether of not the the the vastly financially Saudi backed export of their ideology has had on the Muslim community. Understanding the issues and root causes, is key to helping combat these problems.
Like i say, for certain groups, like homosexuals, of which Douglas Murray is. Then its of no surprise he is both concerned and appalled.At how some on the left show the worst double standards. As I am sure homosexuals based off such dismissals and claims to the Polls being fake. Must fell very concerned that these same lefties where they should be combating social prejudices, are instead ignoring them.

by eddie Sun May 01, 2016 11:20 pm

I understand your points Didge, but if I could be arsed to google, wouldn't I find another article/link/poll/study that says different?

by Guest Mon May 02, 2016 12:35 am

eddie wrote:I understand your points Didge, but if I could be arsed to google, wouldn't I find another article/link/poll/study that says different?

That will depend on whether you disagree with the points made.
Whether you do or not, or if you want to support your views with some evidence, it still requires anyone being able to reason their points, helping then form the bases of a debate

by eddie Mon May 02, 2016 10:35 am

"Whenever opinion poll results come out, nearly the entire Muslim community, including nearly all Muslims in the media and all self-appointed groups of "Muslim community leaders" try to prove that the poll is a fraud."

If "nearly all" Muslims try to prove that polls are "a fraud" , doesn't that mean that they don't agree with the figures and that the figures probably are rubbish?

And
Do you really think 52% of Muslims are agaisnt homosexuality?

by Major Mon May 02, 2016 10:59 am

I agree homosexuality SHOULD be made illegal.

by Ben Reilly Mon May 02, 2016 11:08 am

This really is the poll that keeps on giving.

by Guest Mon May 02, 2016 11:15 am

eddie wrote:"Whenever opinion poll results come out, nearly the entire Muslim community, including nearly all Muslims in the media and all self-appointed groups of "Muslim community leaders" try to prove that the poll is a fraud."

If "nearly all" Muslims try to prove that polls are "a fraud" , doesn't that mean that they don't agree with the figures and that the figures probably are rubbish?

And
Do you really think 52% of Muslims are agaisnt homosexuality?

Will answer before i go..
Your assertion that based on a majority consensus of Muslims, to be the bases for then rendering Polls as to the being invalid. Is quite frankly gibberish to assert something is a standard to dismiss on a consensus of Muslims offering up an opinion. Basically your statement would read also as follows, that if the majority of Muslims believe the Quran is the word of God, then this proves the existence of Allah. Please, please please think before offering up such ill informed concepts It means where polls have and do show Muslims in a good light, they are the first to post these up as evidence for Muslim integration. The minute they produce the most accurately compiled one to date, which holds so high views conflicting with British laws, equality etc. They just attempted to dismiss them, by offering up some excuses for the figures. Again these polls are done in order to learn from and to see where best things are creating a separation for some Muslims within the UK. Its design to create this poll, was not ever intended to attck or call any hate onto Muslims, but see where there was conflict within society.

Do I think its 52%?

i would have to compare to other polls, but would use this as a bases for understanding that a significant amount of Muslims view homosexuality from a view of prejudice. That is problematic, which I am sure is also of a concern to homosexuals

have a good day

by Raggamuffin Mon May 02, 2016 11:36 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:This really is the poll that keeps on giving.

Yes, it's like Groundhog day on here at times.

by Ben Reilly Mon May 02, 2016 6:04 pm

Stormee wrote:I agree homosexuality SHOULD be made illegal.

May I ask why you think so?

by HoratioTarr Mon May 02, 2016 6:40 pm

Stormee wrote:I agree homosexuality SHOULD be made illegal.

Why?

by eddie Mon May 02, 2016 8:03 pm

And thrice:
Why?

by HoratioTarr Mon May 02, 2016 9:10 pm

I don't think he has a reason.

by Syl Mon May 02, 2016 9:10 pm

Stormee wrote:I agree homosexuality SHOULD be made illegal.

Well not that long ago it was.
Men were afraid to admit they were attracted to other men so they followed societies idea of the 'norm' and married. They were still homosexual though....so can you imagine the untold heartache that caused for all involved?

by Victorismyhero Mon May 02, 2016 11:44 pm

when you consider that the man who basically won te war in the atlantic , by cracking the enigma code and building a machine to decrypt enigma signals was driven to his death by people like stormee......

kinda makes you puke doesnt it.....

Alan Mathison Turing OBE FRS (/ˈtjʊərɪŋ/; 23 June 1912 – 7 June 1954) was a pioneering English computer scientist, mathematician, logician, cryptanalyst and theoretical biologist. He was highly influential in the development of theoretical computer science, providing a formalisation of the concepts of algorithm and computation with the Turing machine, which can be considered a model of a general purpose computer.[2][3][4] Turing is widely considered to be the father of theoretical computer science and artificial intelligence.[5]

During the Second World War, Turing worked for the Government Code and Cypher School (GC&CS) at Bletchley Park, Britain's codebreaking centre. For a time he led Hut 8, the section responsible for German naval cryptanalysis. He devised a number of techniques for breaking German ciphers, including improvements to the pre-war Polish bombe method and an electromechanical machine that could find settings for the Enigma machine. Turing played a pivotal role in cracking intercepted coded messages that enabled the Allies to defeat the Nazis in many crucial engagements, including the Battle of the Atlantic; it has been estimated that this work shortened the war in Europe by as many as two to four years.[6]

Turing was prosecuted in 1952 for homosexual acts, when such behaviour was still a criminal act in the UK. He accepted treatment with DES (chemical castration) as an alternative to prison. Turing died in 1954, 16 days before his 42nd birthday, from cyanide poisoning. An inquest determined his death as suicide, but it has been noted that the known evidence is equally consistent with accidental poisoning.[8] In 2009, following an Internet campaign, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown made an official public apology on behalf of the British government for "the appalling way he was treated." Queen Elizabeth II granted him a posthumous pardon in 2013.[9]

by veya_victaous Tue May 03, 2016 1:01 am

Lord Foul wrote:when you consider that the man who basically won te war in the atlantic , by cracking the enigma code and building a machine to decrypt enigma signals was driven to his death by people like stormee......

kinda makes you puke doesnt it.....

Alan Mathison Turing OBE FRS (/ˈtjʊərɪŋ/; 23 June 1912 – 7 June 1954) was a pioneering English computer scientist, mathematician, logician, cryptanalyst and theoretical biologist. He was highly influential in the development of theoretical computer science, providing a formalisation of the concepts of algorithm and computation with the Turing machine, which can be considered a model of a general purpose computer.[2][3][4] Turing is widely considered to be the father of theoretical computer science and artificial intelligence.[5]

During the Second World War, Turing worked for the Government Code and Cypher School (GC&CS) at Bletchley Park, Britain's codebreaking centre. For a time he led Hut 8, the section responsible for German naval cryptanalysis. He devised a number of techniques for breaking German ciphers, including improvements to the pre-war Polish bombe method and an electromechanical machine that could find settings for the Enigma machine. Turing played a pivotal role in cracking intercepted coded messages that enabled the Allies to defeat the Nazis in many crucial engagements, including the Battle of the Atlantic; it has been estimated that this work shortened the war in Europe by as many as two to four years.[6]

Turing was prosecuted in 1952 for homosexual acts, when such behaviour was still a criminal act in the UK. He accepted treatment with DES (chemical castration) as an alternative to prison. Turing died in 1954, 16 days before his 42nd birthday, from cyanide poisoning. An inquest determined his death as suicide, but it has been noted that the known evidence is equally consistent with accidental poisoning.[8] In 2009, following an Internet campaign, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown made an official public apology on behalf of the British government for "the appalling way he was treated." Queen Elizabeth II granted him a posthumous pardon in 2013.[9]

It makes it quite apparent who the useless cowardly Scum are.

If Stormee wishes to get the Scum out of Britian he better throw himself in the ocean, since being anti immirgation he cant expect anyone to accept garbage like him in the nation

by Victorismyhero Wed May 04, 2016 7:59 pm

I notice none of the homophobic sub humans on here care to answer this....
of course i fully realise that they are likely so uncouth as to never listen to classical music
but do they avoid Tchaikovsky's music because he was gay?

they are guilty of the worst double standards going........

by Irn Bru Thu May 05, 2016 1:05 am

The OP is just a load of jumped up propaganda but no surprise it comes from Douglas Murray the EDL lover and fan of Tommy Robinson. Nowhere in the poll does it show that 27% of Brirish Muslims support the motives for the Pariis attack. It just isn't there.

And the number in favour of Sharia law has halved since the last poll was carried so that shows that attitutes are changing as people integrate into our society.

The views on the legality of homesexuality are wrong but compared to what the views are in the middle east countries it is a lot better so it shows that British Muslims are more accepting here so that surely is a sign of some progress.

Britain? Moderates? How's That Again? Pew_re10

Britain? Moderates? How's That Again? Pew_re10

And the views of Muslims here in this country is not that different from the majority of Tories who fought tooth and nail against all the LGBT rights that the progressive Labour movement delivered in this country and that's a fact.

The OP is just more propagands from the Islamaphobic network of the discredited Gatestone Institute.

by Guest Thu May 05, 2016 4:43 am

So what did Irn prove?

That he thinks any concerned homosexuals at the levels of Muslims that believe homosexuality should be criminalized should be castigated as EDL supporters and that again all he can do is attempt to deligitimze people who do have genuine concerns. He then uses misdirection to claim its better than in the Middle East, as if this is somehow going to make British women, homosexuals and religious minorities feel more comfortable.
So did Irn address any of the points or again poorly discount the concerns and genuine concerns that people have in this country? Clearly Irn discounts equality when it comes to other minorities and places a preference to all Muslims, even though this effects many Muslims that have integrated. Falsely claims the source is Islamophobic. I mean this is all the extreme left can ever do. They do not want to listen to concerns at people, scream racist and try to shout down any concern people have where some Muslims clearly have made themselves separate from society. This is cause to look to help the situation, but the left look at to defend ands continue then having problems

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