Can you imagine if real life was like a forum?

[Syl]

Is your real life consumed with arguments about black/v white....race against race...religion against religion??

Nope...so why when we look at the right hand side of our computer is the forum mostly about the above?

I realise that some subjects generate debate....but am I the only one sick and tired of endless groundhog arguments?

If I am just say so and I will join a knitting forum or something.

[Guest]

Is your real life consumed with arguments about black/v white....race against race...religion against religion??

Nope...so why when we look at the right hand side of our computer is the forum mostly about the above?

I realise that some subjects generate debate....but am I the only one sick and tired of endless groundhog arguments?

If I am just say so and I will join a knitting forum or something.

Absolutely agree, sometimes I look at the thread headings and it's 'immigrants, refugees, Muslims' blah blah blah and I just can't be bothered.

[eddie]

Oh come on sassy be fair - it's also endless threads about Palestine and Israel too! Jeez!

I think most threads, no matter what the topic, descend into either race, religion or politics.

[Raggamuffin]

I had no idea that some people were so anti-religion really. Obviously, most people are anti-extremist because of terrorism and all that stuff, but I've never come across anyone in real life who is hateful towards people with religious faith generally. A bit of eye rolling maybe at times, but that's about it.

[Syl]

I have noticed here that a thread about baking or needlepoint will suddenly descend into a race hate war.

[Guest]

Well put it this way, if religion was not a problem, we would have no need to talk about it, would we?
Over 2000 years of history shows it has been problematic and the talking point for that whole time also.

[Syl]

Well put it this way, if religion was not a problem, we would have no need to talk about it, would we?
Over 2000 years of history shows it has been problematic and the talking point for that whole time also.

True...but if one is in the middle of a debate about other things why should religion or a persons belief be brought into the debate if it has no baring on the subject?

[Raggamuffin]

I don't think people are generally hateful towards religion actually, I think it's just on some forums where some people get drunk and gobby.

[Guest]

Well put it this way, if religion was not a problem, we would have no need to talk about it, would we?
Over 2000 years of history shows it has been problematic and the talking point for that whole time also.

True...but if one is in the middle of a debate about other things why should religion or a persons belief be brought into the debate if it has no baring on the subject?

Because sometimes their beliefs play a part in how they will look at something.
Take homosexuality for example, religion can and does play a part in prejudice does it not?

[Raggamuffin]

True...but if one is in the middle of a debate about other things why should religion or a persons belief be brought into the debate if it has no baring on the subject?

Because sometimes their beliefs play a part in how they will look at something.
Take homosexuality for example, religion can and does play a part in prejudice does it not?

If they don't specifically say they hold a certain belief because of their faith, you shouldn't make assumptions.

[Guest]

Because sometimes their beliefs play a part in how they will look at something.
Take homosexuality for example, religion can and does play a part in prejudice does it not?

If they don't specifically say they hold a certain belief because of their faith, you shouldn't make assumptions.

What rule book stipulates that?
You can generally tell it is based around a religious belief, based on their reasoning if they are prejudiced.
There is a lot of prejudice with religion when it holds the view it is the only one that is right and where it advocates absolute morals.
People have had their own parents disown them due to this prejudice.
So if its reasons that religion may have an effect on that persons views, there is nothing wrong in stating this.

[Guest]

Anyway Syl wanted this to be a discussion about so many topics being used and I do not went to have this then dragged to be about religion.
I have made points, based off things raised and that is the end of that input

[Syl]

True...but if one is in the middle of a debate about other things why should religion or a persons belief be brought into the debate if it has no baring on the subject?

Because sometimes their beliefs play a part in how they will look at something.
Take homosexuality for example, religion can and does play a part in prejudice does it not?

Sometimes it does yes, but many people are against homosexuality even if they have never had a religious thought in their head...so it cant be assumed.

[Guest]

Because sometimes their beliefs play a part in how they will look at something.
Take homosexuality for example, religion can and does play a part in prejudice does it not?

Sometimes it does yes, but many people are against homosexuality even if they have never had a religious thought in their head...so it cant be assumed.

I think you will find the majority of them are either religious or from the older generation.

[Syl]

I don't think people are generally hateful towards religion actually, I think it's just on some forums where some people get drunk and gobby.

I cant remember the last time religion was mentioned to me in a RL conversation....it's certainyl never been used against me.

[Raggamuffin]

If they don't specifically say they hold a certain belief because of their faith, you shouldn't make assumptions.

What rule book stipulates that?
You can generally tell it is based around a religious belief, based on their reasoning if they are prejudiced.
There is a lot of prejudice with religion when it holds the view it is the only one that is right and where it advocates absolute morals.
People have had their own parents disown them due to this prejudice.
So if its reasons that religion may have an effect on that persons views, there is nothing wrong in stating this.

Why do you need a rule book to teach you common sense? People can be prejudiced without being religious, and religious people aren't necessarily prejudiced. To assume that someone must hold a certain viewpoint because they have religious faith is silly.

[Raggamuffin]

I don't think people are generally hateful towards religion actually, I think it's just on some forums where some people get drunk and gobby.

I cant remember the last time religion was mentioned to me in a RL conversation....it's certainyl never been used against me.

I was talking about it in the pub the other day.

When I was at college years ago I knew quite a few people from the Middle East, but nobody ever mentioned religion, so I have no idea if they were Muslims or not. It just wasn't an issue really.

[Guest]

What rule book stipulates that?
You can generally tell it is based around a religious belief, based on their reasoning if they are prejudiced.
There is a lot of prejudice with religion when it holds the view it is the only one that is right and where it advocates absolute morals.
People have had their own parents disown them due to this prejudice.
So if its reasons that religion may have an effect on that persons views, there is nothing wrong in stating this.

Why do you need a rule book to teach you common sense? People can be prejudiced without being religious, and religious people aren't necessarily prejudiced. To assume that someone must hold a certain viewpoint because they have religious faith is silly.

Subjective to claim common sense, what you are saying is you do not like people to question whether it is your religious convictions that are swaying your views. 
Sorry, you do not get to decide either what common sense is of whether people have the right to question whether their beliefs effect their reasoning.
Its called Free Speech

[Syl]

Sometimes it does yes, but many people are against homosexuality even if they have never had a religious thought in their head...so it cant be assumed.

I think you will find the majority of them are either religious or from the older generation.

Well I am of the older generation as are many of my friends...none of them are prejudiced against homosexuals to my knowledge.
That's another thing about forums...ageism....if they cant get you for being Black, religious or an immigrant...they will get you for being old.

[Raggamuffin]

Why do you need a rule book to teach you common sense? People can be prejudiced without being religious, and religious people aren't necessarily prejudiced. To assume that someone must hold a certain viewpoint because they have religious faith is silly.

Subjective to claim common sense, what you are saying is you do not like people to question whether it is your religious convictions that are swaying your views. 
Sorry, you do not get to decide either what common sense is of whether people have the right to question whether their beliefs effect their reasoning.
Its called Free Speech

I don't mind them asking once, but I don't like people to assume or to harass me about it, no. If I have an opinion which is based on my religion, I'll say so, so there's no need to ask me is there?

[Guest]

I think you will find the majority of them are either religious or from the older generation.

Well I am of the older generation as are many of my friends...none of them are prejudiced against homosexuals to my knowledge.
That's another thing about forums...ageism....if they cant get you for being Black, religious or an immigrant...they will get you for being old.

I am not saying your friends are lol
But again you will find the majority are either religious or from the older generation.
Not having a go at the elderly either, many will have been brought up far different to how many of us have been.
I accept its harder for them to accept certain things, but there is no real reason why they cannot

[eddie]

And this thread is now about religion.....

[Guest]

Subjective to claim common sense, what you are saying is you do not like people to question whether it is your religious convictions that are swaying your views. 
Sorry, you do not get to decide either what common sense is of whether people have the right to question whether their beliefs effect their reasoning.
Its called Free Speech

I don't mind them asking once, but I don't like people to assume or to harass me about it, no. If I have an opinion which is based on my religion, I'll say so, so there's no need to ask me is there?

Again subjective and if you feel that way, then its you feeling under pressure when none is given.
If in that situation where you feel uncomfortable, then its common sense to pull out of that is it not?
To place yourself in an uncomfortable position only then leaves you being at fault.

[Raggamuffin]

I don't mind them asking once, but I don't like people to assume or to harass me about it, no. If I have an opinion which is based on my religion, I'll say so, so there's no need to ask me is there?

Again subjective and if you feel that way, then its you feeling under pressure when none is given.
If in that situation where you feel uncomfortable, then its common sense to pull out of that is it not?
To place yourself in an uncomfortable position only then leaves you being at fault.

No, it's common sense for you or anyone to control themselves and stop harassing people about their faith.

[Syl]

I cant remember the last time religion was mentioned to me in a RL conversation....it's certainyl never been used against me.

I was talking about it in the pub the other day.

When I was at college years ago I knew quite a few people from the Middle East, but nobody ever mentioned religion, so I have no idea if they were Muslims or not. It just wasn't an issue really.

I worked with lots of different ethnic groups too...and socialised with some of the also, buy I cant remember one argument about race or religion.
It certainly didn't dominate converations...and was never used to score points.

[Guest]

Again subjective and if you feel that way, then its you feeling under pressure when none is given.
If in that situation where you feel uncomfortable, then its common sense to pull out of that is it not?
To place yourself in an uncomfortable position only then leaves you being at fault.

No, it's common sense for you or anyone to control themselves and stop harassing people about their faith.

Again subjective based on you being way over sensitive on religion.
Its more your mistake for getting involved.
Its not me over sensitive to talking about it and its not harassment either.
Which you have been told now many times and not just from me.
If you feel uncomfortable, then you only have yourself to blame if you continue in such a debate

[Raggamuffin]

And this thread is now about religion.....

Well you did mention religion in your first post.

[Raggamuffin]

I guess I don't hear many discussions on race in my area. Tbh, there aren't that many non-white people. I've never heard anyone complaining about racial issues though.

[Syl]

Well I am of the older generation as are many of my friends...none of them are prejudiced against homosexuals to my knowledge.
That's another thing about forums...ageism....if they cant get you for being Black, religious or an immigrant...they will get you for being old.

I am not saying your friends are lol
But again you will find the majority are either religious or from the older generation.
Not having a go at the elderly either, many will have been brought up far different to how many of us have been.
I accept its harder for them to accept certain things, but there is no real reason why they cannot

I have no idea what age group you are in, but I think it's common for younger people to judge older people and vice versa.
Yes...older people did grow up when homosexuality was frowned on (even illegal till the 60's) but most accept changes...they had to, they were either in WW2, helping the war effort, or were offsprings of the people who fought.
If a war doesn't teach people to adapt to change nothing will.

[Guest]

I am not saying your friends are lol
But again you will find the majority are either religious or from the older generation.
Not having a go at the elderly either, many will have been brought up far different to how many of us have been.
I accept its harder for them to accept certain things, but there is no real reason why they cannot

I have no idea what age group you are in, but I think it's common for younger people to judge older people and vice versa.
Yes...older people did grow up when homosexuality was frowned on (even illegal till the 60's) but most accept changes...they had to, they were either in WW2,  helping  the war effort, or were offsprings of the people who fought.
If a war doesn't teach people to adapt to change nothing will.

Again I am not judging, I am going off age groups on polls Syl, that I have researched.
So you agree many grew up when homosexuality was not accepted and was a criminal offense.
The hippy era changed all that.
Its about the only good some of the left ever did.



Anyway catch you later

[Raggamuffin]

No, it's common sense for you or anyone to control themselves and stop harassing people about their faith.

Again subjective based on you being way over sensitive on religion.
Its more your mistake for getting involved.
Its not me over sensitive to talking about it and its not harassment either.
Which you have been told now many times and not just from me.
If you feel uncomfortable, then you only have yourself to blame if you continue in such a debate

Let's say that I give an opinion on a subject, and someone leaps in to say that I only have that opinion because of my faith. The onus is not on me to "pull out" of the discussion, the onus is on them to shut up and stop pestering me. The point is that I didn't get involved - the other person started harassing me about it, so it's up to them to stop, it's not up to me to let them say what they like with impunity.

[Syl]

I guess I don't hear many discussions on race in my area. Tbh, there aren't that many non-white people. I've never heard anyone complaining about racial issues though.

Our next door neighbours and friends are Indian...in 20 years they have never complained about anything blaming the Brits, and we have never complained about anything blaming their race or culture...no need.

[Syl]

I think one of the big differences on forums is some people don't have a mental STOP button.
If you were having a discussion in real life and it was obvious a remark made someone uncomfortable....unless you were a complete arsehole you would stop.
On forums no such thing...point scored so ram it home.
It's the keyboard warrior syndrome, getting away online with what you know you wouldn't get away with face to face.

Same as insulting...when's the last time you called a person a C or a T to their face...or told someone to F off?

[Raggamuffin]

I think one of the big differences on forums is some people don't have a mental STOP button.
If you were having a discussion in real life and it was obvious a remark made someone uncomfortable....unless you were a complete arsehole you would stop.
On forums no such thing...point scored so ram it home.
It's the keyboard warrior syndrome, getting away online with what you know you wouldn't get away with face to face.

Same as insulting...when's the last time you called a person a C or a T to their face...told someone to F off?

A while ago - a mad bloke in the street.

[Syl]

Lol....but I bet you didn't bring his colour or religion into it too.

[Guest]

Again subjective based on you being way over sensitive on religion.
Its more your mistake for getting involved.
Its not me over sensitive to talking about it and its not harassment either.
Which you have been told now many times and not just from me.
If you feel uncomfortable, then you only have yourself to blame if you continue in such a debate

Let's say that I give an opinion on a subject, and someone leaps in to say that I only have that opinion because of my faith. The onus is not on me to "pull out" of the discussion, the onus is on them to shut up and stop pestering me. The point is that I didn't get involved - the other person started harassing me about it, so it's up to them to stop, it's not up to me to let them say what they like with impunity.

The onus is on you if you are over sensitive to that question being asked.
Is not the questioner with the issue but you.
Again its not harassment no matter how many times you claim to say so.
If you cannot handle certain questions, then the problem stems from you.
I dread to think what you would do when faced with a very good lawyer cross examining you as a witness

[Raggamuffin]

Let's say that I give an opinion on a subject, and someone leaps in to say that I only have that opinion because of my faith. The onus is not on me to "pull out" of the discussion, the onus is on them to shut up and stop pestering me. The point is that I didn't get involved - the other person started harassing me about it, so it's up to them to stop, it's not up to me to let them say what they like with impunity.

The onus is on you if you are over sensitive to that question being asked.
Is not the questioner with the issue but you.
Again its not harassment no matter how many times you claim to say so.
If you cannot handle certain questions, then the problem stems from you.
I dread to think what you would do when faced with a very good lawyer cross examining you as a witness

No, the onus is on you to behave like a reasonable human being and stop being a pest. I consider such harassment as personal, so I will get personal back, no matter how much you cry about that.

If you were in a pub, and you started harassing or insulting someone about their religion or anything else, the onus is not on them to leave the pub, the onus is on you to stop it before you get thrown out and barred.

In any case, the point is that I don't encounter such harassment in "real life", only on here from you. There are others who are similar to you on here, but they don't generally go on and on like you do.

[Syl]

Let's say that I give an opinion on a subject, and someone leaps in to say that I only have that opinion because of my faith. The onus is not on me to "pull out" of the discussion, the onus is on them to shut up and stop pestering me. The point is that I didn't get involved - the other person started harassing me about it, so it's up to them to stop, it's not up to me to let them say what they like with impunity.

The onus is on you if you are over sensitive to that question being asked.
Is not the questioner with the issue but you.
Again its not harassment no matter how many times you claim to say so.
If you cannot handle certain questions, then the problem stems from you.
I dread to think what you would do when faced with a very good lawyer cross examining you as a witness

But if that persons faith is used to brow beat them when their opinion has nothing to do with their faith why mention it?
Religion doesn't colour every opinion a person has does it?

I don't like the school of thought that it's up to the person to pull out...why should they? Should they leave a forum also if they are getting harassed and they get upset?
Why support the bully over the victim?

[Guest]

The onus is on you if you are over sensitive to that question being asked.
Is not the questioner with the issue but you.
Again its not harassment no matter how many times you claim to say so.
If you cannot handle certain questions, then the problem stems from you.
I dread to think what you would do when faced with a very good lawyer cross examining you as a witness

But if that persons faith is used to brow beat them when their opinion has nothing to do with their faith why mention it?
Religion doesn't colour every opinion a person has does it?

I don't like the school of thought that it's up to the person to pull out...why should they? Should they leave a forum also if they are getting harassed and they get upset?
Why support the bully over the victim?

Who said it is being used to brow beat them with?
If it is reasoned that it is the persons belief that is swaying their view, it is completely valid to say
You are going off a view to protect people from difficult points based off something you perceive yourself, where you would have to reason also, if you thought that was the case.
So if you are at the pictures, and your friend was upset over something in the film, you would not expect them to pull out?
You are concluding wrongly its bullying before you have proved whether it is.

[Raggamuffin]

The onus is on you if you are over sensitive to that question being asked.
Is not the questioner with the issue but you.
Again its not harassment no matter how many times you claim to say so.
If you cannot handle certain questions, then the problem stems from you.
I dread to think what you would do when faced with a very good lawyer cross examining you as a witness

But if that persons faith is used to brow beat them when their opinion has nothing to do with their faith why mention it?
Religion doesn't colour every opinion a person has does it?

I don't like the school of thought that it's up to the person to pull out...why should they? Should they leave a forum also if they are getting harassed and they get upset?
Why support the bully over the victim?

Exactly. I remember a forum where someone got bullied on a daily basis, and the solution from the mods was to ban that person instead of pulling the bullies up.

[Raggamuffin]

But if that persons faith is used to brow beat them when their opinion has nothing to do with their faith why mention it?
Religion doesn't colour every opinion a person has does it?

I don't like the school of thought that it's up to the person to pull out...why should they? Should they leave a forum also if they are getting harassed and they get upset?
Why support the bully over the victim?

Who said it is being used to brow beat them with?
If it is reasoned that it is the persons belief that is swaying their view, it is completely valid to say
You are going off a view to protect people from difficult points based off something you perceive yourself, where you would have to reason also, if you thought that was the case.
So if you are at the pictures, and your friend was upset over something in the film, you would not expect them to pull out?
You are concluding wrongly its bullying before you have proved whether it is.

You don't "reason" that though, you just do it to harass me. You get aggressive and become a pest completely out of context, no matter what the subject matter. You wouldn't be able to do that in real life and keep your teeth.

[Guest]

But if that persons faith is used to brow beat them when their opinion has nothing to do with their faith why mention it?
Religion doesn't colour every opinion a person has does it?

I don't like the school of thought that it's up to the person to pull out...why should they? Should they leave a forum also if they are getting harassed and they get upset?
Why support the bully over the victim?

Exactly. I remember a forum where someone got bullied on a daily basis, and the solution from the mods was to ban that person instead of pulling the bullies up.

So now we have misdirection.
To get out of answering points.
Well that is a new one not.
You have not established its bullying, you are asserting from the start its bullying and this is the problem with many people religious
They simply cannot handle any talk about their religion and become way over sensitive

[Raggamuffin]

Exactly. I remember a forum where someone got bullied on a daily basis, and the solution from the mods was to ban that person instead of pulling the bullies up.

So now we have misdirection.
To get out of answering points.
Well that is a new one not.
You have not established its bullying, you are asserting from the start its bullying and this is the problem with many people religious
They simply cannot handle any talk about their religion and become way over sensitive

I was replying to Syl in the way that I wanted to reply. I've addressed your absurd points several times, and now you're becoming a pest. You simply can't handle anyone feeling differently to you. How you've made it this far through life is a complete mystery.

[Guest]

Who said it is being used to brow beat them with?
If it is reasoned that it is the persons belief that is swaying their view, it is completely valid to say
You are going off a view to protect people from difficult points based off something you perceive yourself, where you would have to reason also, if you thought that was the case.
So if you are at the pictures, and your friend was upset over something in the film, you would not expect them to pull out?
You are concluding wrongly its bullying before you have proved whether it is.

You don't "reason" that though, you just do it to harass me. You get aggressive and become a pest completely out of context, no matter what the subject matter. You wouldn't be able to do that in real life and keep your teeth.

Its even been told to you by the mods its not harassment.
You are now looking for a fight and spoiling this thread, where I was trying to reason.
If I feel your views are swayed I will reason this to being the case.
If you feel uncomfortable about aspects about you being challenged, then you should not be debating, full stop
We place ourselves into this arena, nobody forces us too.


Now As you seem to want to fight, I ma not interested.

My points are clear, if you get over sensitive, then you need to take a long look at yourself why you do.
Its only a belief after all.

Ta

[Raggamuffin]

You don't "reason" that though, you just do it to harass me. You get aggressive and become a pest completely out of context, no matter what the subject matter. You wouldn't be able to do that in real life and keep your teeth.

Its even been told to you by the mods its not harassment.
You are now looking for a fight and spoiling this thread, where I was trying to reason.
If I feel your views are swayed I will reason this to being the case.
If you feel uncomfortable about aspects about you being challenged, then you should not be debating, full stop
We place ourselves into this arena, nobody forces us too.


Now As you seem to want to fight, I ma not interested.

My points are clear, if you get over sensitive, then you need to take a long look at yourself why you do.
Its only a belief after all.

Ta

I don't care what the mods say, and I've said I'll handle such harassment myself. If I think you're getting personal and pestering me, I'll get personal back, and then you'll run crying to the mods yourself.

[eddie]

I guess I don't hear many discussions on race in my area. Tbh, there aren't that many non-white people. I've never heard anyone complaining about racial issues though.

Our next door neighbours and friends are Indian...in 20 years they have never complained about anything blaming the Brits, and we have never complained about anything blaming their race or culture...no need.

People do it indoors sometimes - not saying it's true in your case - but "not discussing" something with someone doesn't mean they're not discussing it elsewhere.

If I work with anyone from a different religion or race, I ALWAYS bring it up for discussion. I want to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

[Syl]

But if that persons faith is used to brow beat them when their opinion has nothing to do with their faith why mention it?
Religion doesn't colour every opinion a person has does it?

I don't like the school of thought that it's up to the person to pull out...why should they? Should they leave a forum also if they are getting harassed and they get upset?
Why support the bully over the victim?

Exactly. I remember a forum where someone got bullied on a daily basis, and the solution from the mods was to ban that person instead of pulling the bullies up.

I have seen that happen to...it's not nice.

[Syl]

But if that persons faith is used to brow beat them when their opinion has nothing to do with their faith why mention it?
Religion doesn't colour every opinion a person has does it?

I don't like the school of thought that it's up to the person to pull out...why should they? Should they leave a forum also if they are getting harassed and they get upset?
Why support the bully over the victim?

Who said it is being used to brow beat them with?
If it is reasoned that it is the persons belief that is swaying their view, it is completely valid to say
You are going off a view to protect people from difficult points based off something you perceive yourself, where you would have to reason also, if you thought that was the case.
So if you are at the pictures, and your friend was upset over something in the film, you would not expect them to pull out?
You are concluding wrongly its bullying before you have proved whether it is.

It is bullying if a persons personal life is used to score points.
I am talking generally here not you and Rags.

[Guest]

Who said it is being used to brow beat them with?
If it is reasoned that it is the persons belief that is swaying their view, it is completely valid to say
You are going off a view to protect people from difficult points based off something you perceive yourself, where you would have to reason also, if you thought that was the case.
So if you are at the pictures, and your friend was upset over something in the film, you would not expect them to pull out?
You are concluding wrongly its bullying before you have proved whether it is.

It is bullying if a persons personal life is used to score points.
I am talking generally here not you and Rags.

How are you equating reasoning what sways a persons views to scoring points?

People on here all the time try to score points which is a different seperate matter
It happens all the time, which not many are innocent of.
Only a couple of posters I can say with some conviction never do that.

[Syl]

Our next door neighbours and friends are Indian...in 20 years they have never complained about anything blaming the Brits, and we have never complained about anything blaming their race or culture...no need.

People do it indoors sometimes - not saying it's true in your case - but "not discussing" something with someone doesn't mean they're not discussing it elsewhere.

If I work with anyone from a different religion or race, I ALWAYS bring it up for discussion. I want to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

Oh I'm sure things get discussed between themselves, and they probably say things privately they wouldn't actually say to us. Differences are sometimes discussed, between us both, but usually in a need to learn basis rather than a need to moan basis.
We went to their sons wedding a couple of years ago....it went on and on and on....huge difference to our weddings, so obviously we compared the differences, minus the boredom aspect of it.

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