PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
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PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
What I recall my older sisters wearing and these were
sewn at home {not my image/photo} circa 1960's
NO KNEE LENGTH and absolutely no mini-skirts, YET!
My age group - circa 1970's and again - sewn at home
No one wore any maxi-medi-mini to our proms
My son's generation: Hollywood Glitz and HOOKER-HO
seemed to be the style of dress for the girls --- No One
wore a long gown and all of the dresses just barely
covered the butt cheeks and stay up where they were supposed
to cover the breasts!
What was your formal like? Care to share the horror of that nights events?
sewn at home {not my image/photo} circa 1960's
NO KNEE LENGTH and absolutely no mini-skirts, YET!
My age group - circa 1970's and again - sewn at home
No one wore any maxi-medi-mini to our proms
My son's generation: Hollywood Glitz and HOOKER-HO
seemed to be the style of dress for the girls --- No One
wore a long gown and all of the dresses just barely
covered the butt cheeks and stay up where they were supposed
to cover the breasts!
What was your formal like? Care to share the horror of that nights events?
Last edited by 4EVER2 on Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
LOL, we didn't have one, they only started here a few years ago. However, because I went to a co-ed boarding school, when we reached year 5 we had a weekly dance (years before that we had a film every Saturday night, no TV or anything, just transistor radios if we had them). We used to wear circular skirts with sugared petticoats under and wide belts (I did have a small waist then!) and blouses, shirtwaisters, pencil skirts, all the normal things that were around.
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
4EVER2 wrote:What I recall my older sisters wearing and these were
sewn at home {not my image/photo} circa 1960's
NO KNEE LENGTH and absolutely no mini-skirts, YET!
My age group - circa 1970's and again - sewn at home
No one wore any maxi-medi-mini to our proms
My son's generation: Hollywood Glitz and HOOKER-HO
seemed to be the style of dress for the girls --- No One
wore a long gown and all of the dresses just barely
covered the diarrhea and stay up where they were supposed
to cover the breasts!
What was your formal like? Care to share the horror of that nights events?
In my day we had a school disco and as it was the era of the New Romantics no prom dresses!
It's a recent phenomenon here like celebrating Halloween. It's getting ridiculous now though. By the time you have bought the dress, shoes, underwear and bag and paid for hair nails make up and for some, tan. You don't get much change out of £4-500.
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
Oh, indeed; some of the boys are expected to pay out the NOSE for: tux rental, corsage, limousine rental {the more the merrier for including your friends}...
Some of these schools are trying to discourage such grandiose expenditures but there's always that status quo group that has to be 'All That And The Bag Of Chips Too' and blow through $1,000. easy for just that one evening. Prom dresses are running into the $500 + cost, plus a beauty shop trip, shoes to match.
At least this years local girls did not sign up for 2 - 3 weeks of fake baking in the local tanning booth!
Some of these schools are trying to discourage such grandiose expenditures but there's always that status quo group that has to be 'All That And The Bag Of Chips Too' and blow through $1,000. easy for just that one evening. Prom dresses are running into the $500 + cost, plus a beauty shop trip, shoes to match.
At least this years local girls did not sign up for 2 - 3 weeks of fake baking in the local tanning booth!
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
Most girls round here - and from seeing pics on FB etc - have gone for the long formal dress.
I've not seen anyone wear a shorter one?
I hate it. It's a big fat a waste of money and I hope by the time my little one has her prom, they'll be banned or discontinued.
Bah humbug!
I've not seen anyone wear a shorter one?
I hate it. It's a big fat a waste of money and I hope by the time my little one has her prom, they'll be banned or discontinued.
Bah humbug!
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
The 'Senior' class; ladies & gents...2016 down town of this
little berg that I live outside of...brick streets every where.
And this was one of the largest numbered senior classes EVER.
transportation becomes an 'art form' for many of the young men:
4 wheelers/boats being towed/tractors/fire trucks/tall mud runners
and a borrowed family convertible or 2.
Not quite what I'd 'DREAM' about for my mode of transportation
to & from the prom...especially if the DUDE arrived towing his favorite
bass boat being driven by his father???
"You want me to climb up there in this dress & heels???"
little berg that I live outside of...brick streets every where.
And this was one of the largest numbered senior classes EVER.
transportation becomes an 'art form' for many of the young men:
4 wheelers/boats being towed/tractors/fire trucks/tall mud runners
and a borrowed family convertible or 2.
Not quite what I'd 'DREAM' about for my mode of transportation
to & from the prom...especially if the DUDE arrived towing his favorite
bass boat being driven by his father???
"You want me to climb up there in this dress & heels???"
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
ŶŶ
4EVER2 wrote:The 'Senior' class; ladies & gents...2016 down town of this
little berg that I live outside of...brick streets every where.
And this was one of the largest numbered senior classes EVER.
transportation becomes an 'art form' for many of the young men:
4 wheelers/boats being towed/tractors/fire trucks/tall mud runners
and a borrowed family convertible or 2.
Not quite what I'd 'DREAM' about for my mode of transportation
to & from the prom...especially if the DUDE arrived towing his favorite
bass boat being driven by his father???
"You want me to climb up there in this dress & heels???"
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
Another stupid American idea copied by brain dead Brits.
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
Errrrrrr - actually, they copied from the Debs Coming Out Balls we used to have for the rich.
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
sassy wrote:Errrrrrr - actually, they copied from the Debs Coming Out Balls we used to have for the rich.
Still do. The cotillion ball still advertises the latest crop of virgins. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotillion_ball
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
Another American idea, Trick or Treat, great for scaring old people.
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
nicko wrote:Another American idea, Trick or Treat, great for scaring old people.
Awww...nicko. Did'ems scare you?
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
Hell Nicko, get out there with them and do the scaring, don't be such an old kill-joy!!!!
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Stormee wrote:sassy wrote:Hell Nicko, get out there with them and do the scaring, don't be such an old kill-joy!!!!
NO, the all boyz school would have been burned down first.
Our sporting activitiz were Rugby Football, cricket, shooting, athletics, badminton and my fav, boxing.
This was a skool for MEN to be not ponthooks.
OUR annual event was COLLECTING, RECEIVING TROPHIES we won.
Awww, come on~~~ Stormee, your school didn't ever attend an annual SPRING FLING - hoot'n - Nanny, boot scoot'n dance party with the local young ladies???
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
I like Halloween now since we took up the US trick or treating. It's fun and gets you meeting and chatting to the neighbours.
It's a great night.
It's a great night.
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
Nicko stated >
Another stupid American idea copied by brain dead Brits.
****************
sassy stated
Errrrrrr - actually, they copied from the Debs Coming Out Balls we used to have for the rich.
That's rather like; 'what came first, the chicken or the egg?'
But I'll blame the French for their massive number of formal dance entertainment steps...but I can be WRONG~~~
Group dances continued to dominate ballrooms during the early nineteenth century, especially the quadrille that evolved from the eighteenth-century contredanse française (also known as the cotillon). The ten or twelve changes that alternated with the figure, as was required in the contredanse française, were replaced by combining the figures, now called sets, to create a single dance. Performed by four couples facing a square, each set of figures, usually five, was performed to its own music, consisting of eight-bar phrases. A brief pause would separate each set. During the early nineteenth century, the dancers were required to bow to each other and their corners during the first eight bars of each set. By the middle of the century, the dancers simply waited for the eight bars to pass before starting the figures. Examples of some of the components that made up figures included: Forward and Backward; Going to the Right and Left; Crossing Over; Balance (also known as "set to partners"); Hands Around, English Chain (also known as Right and Left), Ladies' Chain, and Moulinet. Often, the components were described by their French names; for example, the English Chain was called chaine anglaise http://www.memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/diessay6.html
So who claims the cotillion type of dance moves? The English or France?
A dance so similar to our 'Country Western - Square Dance' but moved in sloooooow motion. Our Square Dances are a cardio work out!
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
eddie wrote:I like Halloween now since we took up the US trick or treating. It's fun and gets you meeting and chatting to the neighbours.
It's a great night.
Besides blowing loads of cash on 4th of July Fire works...my husband would engage in the annual Halloween decorating like it had a MEGA PRIZE for best decorated home/business.
Truly --- the man was obsessed with anything and everything ~~spooky~~
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
Stormee wrote:sassy wrote:Hell Nicko, get out there with them and do the scaring, don't be such an old kill-joy!!!!
NO, the all boyz school would have been burned down first.
Our sporting activitiz were Rugby Football, cricket, shooting, athletics, badminton and my fav, boxing.
This was a skool for MEN to be not ponthooks.
OUR annual event was COLLECTING, RECEIVING TROPHIES we won.
Boxing? You mean you were hit around the head a lot?
As for medals - we got plenty of them and number 2 rugby players for England who were pupils.
http://www.wcremembered.co.uk/fame.html
As well as actors, writers, MPs, top vets, winners of gold medals in Commonwealth Games (one for shooting lol), meterologists, Heads of Law, a Chief Secretary to the Treasury, radio and television presenters, artists, Colonels, Professors of Maths and Radiology etc etc. All that and we managed to dance as well, who'd have thought it lol
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
4EVER2 wrote:eddie wrote:I like Halloween now since we took up the US trick or treating. It's fun and gets you meeting and chatting to the neighbours.
It's a great night.
Besides blowing loads of cash on 4th of July Fire works...my husband would engage in the annual Halloween decorating like it had a MEGA PRIZE for best decorated home/business.
Truly --- the man was obsessed with anything and everything ~~spooky~~
Hahahahaha my daughter would love him!
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
nicko wrote:Another stupid American idea copied by brain dead Brits.
Charming.
I left school long before proms became popular, but we have taken our Grandson to THREE....and bloody expensive they are too, and not only for the girls.
Last time a lot of the kids arrived in hired American taxis and Cadillacs.... GS wanted to go in my cabriolet with the top down....it poured down till 5 minutes before we were due to set off....but he managed to arrive in style.
You can always tell when Prom nights are looming, the shops are full of gorgeous sparkly frocks.
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
eddie wrote:4EVER2 wrote:
Besides blowing loads of cash on 4th of July Fire works...my husband would engage in the annual Halloween decorating like it had a MEGA PRIZE for best decorated home/business.
Truly --- the man was obsessed with anything and everything ~~spooky~~
Hahahahaha my daughter would love him!
by sassy on Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:24 pm
And my grandaughter
He'd get so involved in rigging up our landscape {mower/equipment shed} into this mega sectioned off/curtained rooms of horror that many of the summer mowing crew started coming by and volunteering to help; one thing let to another and then we were charging admittance and donating the funds to a rotating charity. And it grew into a 2 month project with: meetings/design suggestions/rigging tests/sound affects/volunteers dressed up in their
Sure wish I had some home movies of the different story lines that those crazy kids put together --- such great memories now.
Any time I come across a catalog that has so many new LCD lighted/animated Halloween themed decorations --- I know that hubby would be putting that on his 'MUST HAVE LIST' for the next season's event. He was such a big kid inside
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yup ...halloween...another imported lets take as much cash off you as possible idea from the states....and the supposedly cash strapped brits fall for it..spending a small fortune to "keep up with the neighbours kids"
and utterly disrespectful too...
but then of course the "lets have spendy money fun" brigade dont actually CARE about that...they would ONLY care if it upset Muslims or jews or whatever......
and utterly disrespectful too...
but then of course the "lets have spendy money fun" brigade dont actually CARE about that...they would ONLY care if it upset Muslims or jews or whatever......
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Lord Foul wrote:yup ...halloween...another imported lets take as much cash off you as possible idea from the states....and the supposedly cash strapped brits fall for it..spending a small fortune to "keep up with the neighbours kids"
and utterly disrespectful too...
but then of course the "lets have spendy money fun" brigade dont actually CARE about that...they would ONLY care if it upset Muslims or jews or whatever......
GOOD GOLLY...miss molly; who 'P'd in your morning bowl of cereal
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what part of the above do you object to 4ever?
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It's about FUN...doing things for the children---doesn't mean it's gotta be about WAR & PEACE---right? Just funLord Foul wrote:what part of the above do you object to 4ever?
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
Sometimes Vic gets carried away doing his grumpy old man bit, eh Vic
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nope...I actually find it disrespectful
if you took oh I dunno....lets say eid......and made a mockery of it.....what would happen?
AND.......you spend 364 days telling your kids not to get involved with strangers....
then 1 night a year you tell em ...ok off you go ...knock on every door you can find and accept sweeties from the strangers behind that door erm...kaaayyyyyyyyy
if you took oh I dunno....lets say eid......and made a mockery of it.....what would happen?
AND.......you spend 364 days telling your kids not to get involved with strangers....
then 1 night a year you tell em ...ok off you go ...knock on every door you can find and accept sweeties from the strangers behind that door erm...kaaayyyyyyyyy
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I reckon I'm the only one that doesn't like Halloween, probably because it's preceded by mischief night up here and that's just an excuse for vandalism and terrorising people.eddie wrote:I like Halloween now since we took up the US trick or treating. It's fun and gets you meeting and chatting to the neighbours.
It's a great night.
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I usually buy loads of sweets for the kids and pray they come knocking.
One year hardly anyone came and I ended up feeling quite queasy.
One year hardly anyone came and I ended up feeling quite queasy.
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You and me both. The last house we lived in was on a busy road and not a lot of children lived on it. Really missed not having them knock, used to have a giggle.
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
I'll admit that in my youth...we did all sorts of mischief to our down town area; stacking some hay bales {both small square & round ones} in front of a few commercial doors, soaping up some windows, T-P'd {toilet papered} some teachers outside landscape bushes & trees...and one rather ugly attitude Vice Principal had his VW Bug turned around sideways in his garage --- now that was pure genius - lots of the old timers got a hoot out of that one. But we never set anything on fire - broke windows - destroyed property and we'd always have to go clean up the debris left from soaping windows and removing the hay bales.Miffs2 wrote:I reckon I'm the only one that doesn't like Halloween, probably because it's preceded by mischief night up here and that's just an excuse for vandalism and terrorising people.eddie wrote:I like Halloween now since we took up the US trick or treating. It's fun and gets you meeting and chatting to the neighbours.
It's a great night.
But it became a horrible night of chaos and property damage for several groups behind our class --- they burnt down a guys garage, broke store windows and caused lots of insurance claims; that put a stop to any teens being out on Halloween unless they were with younger siblings - taking them around to Trick or Treat.
But as some have stated; it's an opportunity to greet & meet your neighbors - drop in and say hello and if you don't care to give out high sugar content snack & goodies --- pennies and pencils are always fun too. But the annual pumpkin smashing does wait until much later that evening --- 16 years I've lived here and I've never had any of my rustic yard art/windmills/milk cans/old wagons/antique tricycles stolen or relocated --- and pumpkins can be displayed a week before Halloween and never had any problems with them being stolen or destroyed
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sassy wrote:You and me both. The last house we lived in was on a busy road and not a lot of children lived on it. Really missed not having them knock, used to have a giggle.
Lol Sassy...did you eat all the sweets too?
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Sounds like they dealt with it sensibly without stopping the little kids fun.
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Syl wrote:sassy wrote:You and me both. The last house we lived in was on a busy road and not a lot of children lived on it. Really missed not having them knock, used to have a giggle.
Lol Sassy...did you eat all the sweets too?
Errrrrrr - I'm pleading the 5th lol
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
4EVER2 wrote:I'll admit that in my youth...we did all sorts of mischief to our down town area; stacking some hay bales {both small square & round ones} in front of a few commercial doors, soaping up some windows, T-P'd {toilet papered} some teachers outside landscape bushes & trees...and one rather ugly attitude Vice Principal had his VW Bug turned around sideways in his garage --- now that was pure genius - lots of the old timers got a hoot out of that one. But we never set anything on fire - broke windows - destroyed property and we'd always have to go clean up the debris left from soaping windows and removing the hay bales.Miffs2 wrote:
I reckon I'm the only one that doesn't like Halloween, probably because it's preceded by mischief night up here and that's just an excuse for vandalism and terrorising people.
But it became a horrible night of chaos and property damage for several groups behind our class --- they burnt down a guys garage, broke store windows and caused lots of insurance claims; that put a stop to any teens being out on Halloween unless they were with younger siblings - taking them around to Trick or Treat.
But as some have stated; it's an opportunity to greet & meet your neighbors - drop in and say hello and if you don't care to give out high sugar content snack & goodies --- pennies and pencils are always fun too. But the annual pumpkin smashing does wait until much later that evening --- 16 years I've lived here and I've never had any of my rustic yard art/windmills/milk cans/old wagons/antique tricycles stolen or relocated --- and pumpkins can be displayed a week before Halloween and never had any problems with them being stolen or destroyed
I don't know why 4ever....but your post reminded me of a scene in Oklahoma.....the stage version when Hugh Jackman played Curly.
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Now you have pointed it out, you are quite right.
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4EVER2 wrote:I'll admit that in my youth...we did all sorts of mischief to our down town area; stacking some hay bales {both small square & round ones} in front of a few commercial doors, soaping up some windows, T-P'd {toilet papered} some teachers outside landscape bushes & trees...and one rather ugly attitude Vice Principal had his VW Bug turned around sideways in his garage --- now that was pure genius - lots of the old timers got a hoot out of that one. But we never set anything on fire - broke windows - destroyed property and we'd always have to go clean up the debris left from soaping windows and removing the hay bales.Miffs2 wrote:
I reckon I'm the only one that doesn't like Halloween, probably because it's preceded by mischief night up here and that's just an excuse for vandalism and terrorising people.
But it became a horrible night of chaos and property damage for several groups behind our class --- they burnt down a guys garage, broke store windows and caused lots of insurance claims; that put a stop to any teens being out on Halloween unless they were with younger siblings - taking them around to Trick or Treat.
But as some have stated; it's an opportunity to greet & meet your neighbors - drop in and say hello and if you don't care to give out high sugar content snack & goodies --- pennies and pencils are always fun too. But the annual pumpkin smashing does wait until much later that evening --- 16 years I've lived here and I've never had any of my rustic yard art/windmills/milk cans/old wagons/antique tricycles stolen or relocated --- and pumpkins can be displayed a week before Halloween and never had any problems with them being stolen or destroyed
You are right, mischief is one thing. But it's just become a night of violence here, the feral little bastards stone police cars and ambulances. Throw bricks through windows and set bins alight. One thing that has never left me and it was 10 years ago, old chap walking home from the shops, gang of kids stole his shopping threw water over him and then burst a bag of flour on his head. When passers by asked if he was ok he replied he was just waiting to die.
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
sassy wrote: You go with them DOH
and that makes it right??
not to mention that you are teaching them that begging is right.....
come to that not only begging but extortion too.....if you dont give me a traet ...i'll "trick" you
I know plenty of older folk who look forward to halloween with the same enthusiasm as the turkey does christmas....
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I don't mind at all Syl, I grew up being called: 'hay seed' - 'hay shaker' - 'dirt farmer' - 'clod hopper' - and some other REAL un-sundry type names because we were farm kids and ran around doing 4-H projects and miscellaneous good deeds. We were a tight group of boys & girls and still stay in touch all these 60 years later.Syl stated >>>
I don't know why 4ever....but your post reminded me of a scene in Oklahoma.....the stage version when Hugh Jackman played Curly.
Not one druggy or alcoholic among this group --- not that we didn't try the marijuana though
And we were poor but never really were aware of it because everyone we played with - attended school with were in the same economic status quo that we were.
Rural America is just about the same, regardless of what state we live in...only the names and weather conditions change. LOL
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Sounds brilliant. I never stayed in one place for more than about 3 years because my Dad was in the Air Force. Taken me all my life to get rid of the wanderbug!
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Lord Foul wrote:sassy wrote: You go with them DOH
and that makes it right??
not to mention that you are teaching them that begging is right.....
come to that not only begging but extortion too.....if you dont give me a traet ...i'll "trick" you
I know plenty of older folk who look forward to halloween with the same enthusiasm as the turkey does christmas....
Actually my mum used to say it was begging, same as penny for the guy. She would have went mad at me. You are quite right about the elderly as I said in my previous post.
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like the poor old chap up my street last year who had to take his missus to a hospital appointment...only to find that the dear little "fun loving tricksters" had let his tyres down....
and YES the "adults with them had allowed it
fortunately they hadnt dared do the same to my vehicle (doubless knowing the consequences therof...) so I ended up spending a morning waiting for him and his missus at the hospital and half the afternoon getting his car tyres reinflated....( a trip to quick fit , as the tyre bead had come off the rim).......great...
and YES the "adults with them had allowed it
fortunately they hadnt dared do the same to my vehicle (doubless knowing the consequences therof...) so I ended up spending a morning waiting for him and his missus at the hospital and half the afternoon getting his car tyres reinflated....( a trip to quick fit , as the tyre bead had come off the rim).......great...
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
Bastards.Lord Foul wrote:like the poor old chap up my street last year who had to take his missus to a hospital appointment...only to find that the dear little "fun loving tricksters" had let his tyres down....
and YES the "adults with them had allowed it
fortunately they hadnt dared do the same to my vehicle (doubless knowing the consequences therof...) so I ended up spending a morning waiting for him and his missus at the hospital and half the afternoon getting his car tyres reinflated....( a trip to quick fit , as the tyre bead had come off the rim).......great...
All tremendous fun I'm sure
Miffs2- Forum Detective ????♀️
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
You really should do yourself some spells to stop the shit that happens around you Vic, you worry me.
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Re: PROM - FORMAL DANCES, did your school have an annual event?
sassy wrote:Errrrrrr - I'm pleading the 5th lolSyl wrote:
Lol Sassy...did you eat all the sweets too?
When I moved mother in here with me; we'd make up treat bags weeks ahead of time...she so enjoyed going through the stores selecting what she deemed WORTHY enough to be put into those treat bags. Not too much chocolate - some fruit type of snacks - had to have some spider rings - decorated pencils - goofy erasers - some gum - and a piece of fruit shaped finger/eye-ball/lips/nose/ear --- she LOVED handing out those bags. Park her wheel chair right by the front door, she could keep an eye out for their footsteps on the front porch - and watch TV in between times; of course she had on her best Witches hat and black draped outfit as well.
We only exceeded the number of children to pre-made bags one year; those late ones got an apple or an orange but 40 bags has been my limit. But walking on this end of town puts some strain on the legs; all of our homes are brightly lit but much farther apart --- up on the hill those homes get bombarded with mass amounts of trick or tweeters' by the hundreds.
Don't want to participate...just leave the porch light off and these kids know the routine; lights out - no knocking - no treats.
OMG...those are nothing more then THUGS & GANG-BANGERS, looking to do serious harm; that's why there should be adults posted on corners to keep an eye out for just such trouble.Miffs2 stated >
You are right, mischief is one thing. But it's just become a night of violence here, the feral little bastards stone police cars and ambulances. Throw bricks through windows and set bins alight. One thing that has never left me and it was 10 years ago, old chap walking home from the shops, gang of kids stole his shopping threw water over him and then burst a bag of flour on his head. When passers by asked if he was ok he replied he was just waiting to die.
I've read horror stories about inner city children here having such horrible things happen; so lots of communities have a 'Safe Zone' place; like a shopping mall - gymnasium - parking lot and the little ones get to dress up - go from table to table / auto trunk to auto trunk saying the 'Trick or Treat' mantra...and it's always a big hit and get over really quickly too.
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