Immigration Figures Being Kept Secret

by Major Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:02 am

Those of us who have a brain know this and have said it over the years, those who deny it are not helping our country.

The true scale of immigration to Britain by EU citizens is being kept secret by Government officials, it emerged last night.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3488434/Tell-true-number-EU-migrants-Whitehall-covering-shocking-figure-ahead-EU-poll-say-MPs.html#ixzz42foh5o3a
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by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:43 pm

Why hide it if it's all innocent and great!?

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:07 pm

There should be a very simple way to resolve this based on EU migrants coming and going.

ONS records only migrants who stay in Britain for more than a year, but people who work here for short periods of time require an NI number.

Which would mean checking off the newly issue NI numbers to see which ones are paying and which ones have ceased making any contributions. Which is more likely they then have now left. This will of course not be done in 5 minutes and will take some collating. Which does need to be done if of course the fears are true, which I find very unlikely based on no massive rise in out of work benefits. Or to show that its far more probable many only stayed short term. Its going to take time, so releasing any data whilst there is a huge disparity would be daft, until you find the cause for this disparity.

by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:23 pm

Yeah... about 630,000 national insurance numbers were applied for by immigrants last year...

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:47 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Yeah... about 630,000 national insurance numbers were applied for by immigrants last year...

And?

You clearly must have not done the maths over the last 5 years based on 2.2 million EU migrants and then compare this off no actual figure how many have remained?
Hence why it needs to be checked back 5 years.

You need to find out ow many EU people have obtained jobs and also either are still here or abroad.
There is such a vast discrepancy for a reason. Short term migrants. As surely you are not going to make some absurd claim that 800,000 EU foreigners are just not even paying, working or contributing into the Tax system ad they are all presumably sleeping rough based on your briefs Tommy?

by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:45 pm

Don't know what that gobbledegook is supposed to mean...

I just stated a fact that last year over 600000 new immigrants applied for NI numbers...

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:22 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Don't know what that gobbledegook is supposed to mean...

I just stated a fact that last year over 600000 new immigrants applied for NI numbers...

Which again you do not know how many are still here being as many are short term migrants.
Maths really is not one of your strong points is it.

From Jan 2015 there was 2,071,000 unemployed and 31,030,000 in employment.
In Sept 2015 1,690,000 were unemployed and 31,420,000 in employment.

So based on the first 9 months of last year (the last 3 months not out yet) unemployment came down 381,000 and 390,000 more people were in employment.

Now Emigration from the UK was 300,000 on the latest figures for August 2014 to August 2015

Now how many of the above were in employment is difficult to say, though its fair to say a fair chunk of that number will be people who have retired. Even if we equated them to all being in employment, you still have 381,000 people in the UK who are no longer unemployed when they were at the beginning of 2015, before 600,000 EU migrants came.

So you tell me Tommy. Either we have gained hundreds of thousands of EU migrants penniless who applied for NI numbers and clearly do not have any jobs and we would see such an increase with the homeless. So whilst I could accept a couple of thousand, there has not been an increase of hundreds of thousands homeless in a year as clearly they have not claimed unemployment benefit when the numbers have come down. Then either these EU migrants are millionaires. Which if they are I doubt you are going to have an issue with. Or most likely they were short term migrants.

Now job and unemployment stats is going to be far more accurate than migration stats, when it can take some time to ascertain if people have left who were short term migrants. Official migration figures are based on a survey of migrants as they enter and leave Britain, known as the International Passenger Survey. So its even more likely and possible that the stats on Net migration are wrong and the true Net Migration figure is at present way too high as its not based on short term migrants.

Which even the Daily Mail eludes to:

A possible explanation for the gap is that the ONS records only migrants who stay in Britain for more than a year, but people who work here for short periods of time require an NI number.

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:55 pm

But we added another 340000 to our population in net immigration last year...

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:39 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:But we added another 340000 to our population in net immigration last year...

Immigration Figures Being Kept Secret 1c385fbe3bbf2d3143f31105c3693d68

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:45 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464917/NI-numbers-hint-migrant-total-far-higher-257-000-EU-immigrants-arrived-630-000-want-right-work.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-claims-national-insurance-number-registrations-show-ons-covering-up-uk-immigration-a6897206.html

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:51 pm

Excellent Tommy, we can all read, now go back and actually counter all my points

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:54 pm

In fact with my reasoning Net migration should be in the negative, because they do not count people who intend to stay and do not stay based on questionnaires by the ONS on entry into the country.
This is of course backed up by mt stats on people unemployed and in employment

What have you got to say to that Tommy

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:03 pm

Of they do not count people who say they only intend to stay for a short time then the true number will undoubtedly be much higher!!

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:06 pm

They count people coming in who stay or claim to say they are staying
So if the problem is around collating that number who leave, then there is your reason to the number.

Again why can you not answer my points:

Which again you do not know how many are still here being as many are short term migrants.
Maths really is not one of your strong points is it.

From Jan 2015 there was 2,071,000 unemployed and 31,030,000 in employment.
In Sept 2015 1,690,000 were unemployed and 31,420,000 in employment.

So based on the first 9 months of last year (the last 3 months not out yet) unemployment came down 381,000 and 390,000 more people were in employment.

Now Emigration from the UK was 300,000 on the latest figures for August 2014 to August 2015

Now how many of the above were in employment is difficult to say, though its fair to say a fair chunk of that number will be people who have retired. Even if we equated them to all being in employment, you still have 381,000 people in the UK who are no longer unemployed when they were at the beginning of 2015, before 600,000 EU migrants came.

So you tell me Tommy. Either we have gained hundreds of thousands of EU migrants penniless who applied for NI numbers and clearly do not have any jobs and we would see such an increase with the homeless. So whilst I could accept a couple of thousand, there has not been an increase of hundreds of thousands homeless in a year as clearly they have not claimed unemployment benefit when the numbers have come down. Then either these EU migrants are millionaires. Which if they are I doubt you are going to have an issue with. Or most likely they were short term migrants.

Now job and unemployment stats is going to be far more accurate than migration stats, when it can take some time to ascertain if people have left who were short term migrants. Official migration figures are based on a survey of migrants as they enter and leave Britain, known as the International Passenger Survey. So its even more likely and possible that the stats on Net migration are wrong and the true Net Migration figure is at present way too high as its not based on short term migrants.

Which even the Daily Mail eludes to:

A possible explanation for the gap is that the ONS records only migrants who stay in Britain for more than a year, but people who work here for short periods of time require an NI number.

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:15 pm

So a drop in unemployed figure same as rise in employed figure... so what has happened to the other 340000 people who arrived in the year through immigration...!?

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:19 pm

Which shows again why you are not very good at maths

You are concluding that the numbers that gained employment all equate to EU migrants, based on what Tommy?

The fact you are not very good at maths?

You want to know what happened to the EU migrants?

Here I will highlight that part again for you

Which again you do not know how many are still here being as many are short term migrants.
Maths really is not one of your strong points is it.

From Jan 2015 there was 2,071,000 unemployed and 31,030,000 in employment.
In Sept 2015 1,690,000 were unemployed and 31,420,000 in employment.

So based on the first 9 months of last year (the last 3 months not out yet) unemployment came down 381,000 and 390,000 more people were in employment.

Now Emigration from the UK was 300,000 on the latest figures for August 2014 to August 2015

Now how many of the above were in employment is difficult to say, though its fair to say a fair chunk of that number will be people who have retired. Even if we equated them to all being in employment, you still have 381,000 people in the UK who are no longer unemployed when they were at the beginning of 2015, before 600,000 EU migrants came.

So you tell me Tommy. Either we have gained hundreds of thousands of EU migrants penniless who applied for NI numbers and clearly do not have any jobs and we would see such an increase with the homeless. So whilst I could accept a couple of thousand, there has not been an increase of hundreds of thousands homeless in a year as clearly they have not claimed unemployment benefit when the numbers have come down. Then either these EU migrants are millionaires. Which if they are I doubt you are going to have an issue with. Or most likely they were short term migrants.

Now job and unemployment stats is going to be far more accurate than migration stats, when it can take some time to ascertain if people have left who were short term migrants. Official migration figures are based on a survey of migrants as they enter and leave Britain, known as the International Passenger Survey. So its even more likely and possible that the stats on Net migration are wrong and the true Net Migration figure is at present way too high as its not based on short term migrants.

Which even the Daily Mail eludes to:

A possible explanation for the gap is that the ONS records only migrants who stay in Britain for more than a year, but people who work here for short periods of time require an NI number.

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:24 pm

So if a years figures for unemployment show a drop of 400000 and those in employment went up 400000... what happened to the other 340000 net immigrants...!?

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:31 pm

Highlighted for you in the last post

Now go back and answer my points where again your maths is getting worse in every post

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:48 pm

No that doesn't answer the question...

If the UK unemployment figure went down by 400000 and the employed figure went up by 400000 in a year, then that would suggest that 400000 people got off unemployment benefit and into work...

So then factor in all the 340000 net immigrant new arrivals figure added to the population number of the country... and given that 630000 actually applied for NI numbers in that year...

Why do the figures for those employed only go up by 400000...!!!???

It simply doesn't add up!!!

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:51 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:No that doesn't answer the question...

If the UK unemployment figure went down by 400000 and the employed figure went up by 400000 in a year, then that would suggest that 400000 people got off unemployment benefit and into work...

So then factor in all the 340000 net immigrant new arrivals figure added to the population number of the country... and given that 630000 actually applied for NI numbers in that year...

Why do the figures for those employed only go up by 400000...!!!???

It simply doesn't add up!!!

Immigration Figures Being Kept Secret 3489511464

Can someone help Tommy out please

Seriously, I just fell over laughing at his last post

If they only go up by 400,000 in employment is because then people have left the country as they were short term migrants
And being as most would have been here before the EU migrants came, being as far less than a year ago are claiming income support, its far more likely that Net migrations should in the minus and not positive
I mean Tommy,. why have you not seen a dramatic increase in homeless people to the tune of 1 million people over 5 years?
As these people you speak of are not in employment or claiming support.
They just have and applied for an NI number and clearly have since left

Doh

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:21 pm

So... unemployment figures go down by 400000... employed figures go up 400000...

Then we also have a net addition to the population of 340000... with 630000 new arrivals actually registering here for NI numbers..

But the employment/unemployment figures only show that the number of new employed people is the same as the number that stopped claiming unemployment benefits!!!

And the figures are supposed to be believed...!!!???

lol!

And homeless... do you mean like these ones...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11324057/Surge-in-Romanian-rough-sleepers.html

"ONE IN TEN homeless people in London are Romanian or Bulgarian, shocking figures reveal.

Nationals from the two countries make up just one per cent of the capital’s population — but ten per cent of those sleeping on its streets.

A report from charity Broadway shows on average 1,672 people per night slept rough in London between May and October.

Advertisement

Of those, 157 were from Romania and 13 were from Bulgaria.

It also reveals the majority of London’s homeless are now from other countries.

Just 49 per cent were from the UK..."

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/5346092/1-in-10-of-London-homeless-are-Romanian-or-Bulgarian.html

Or maybe you mean people like this...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6971397/Beggar-filmed-getting-into-his-SPORTS-CAR-after-a-day-asking-for-money.html

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:24 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:So... unemployment figures go down by 400000... employed figures go up 400000...

Then we also have a net addition to the population of 340000... with 630000 new arrivals actually registering here for NI numbers..

But the employment/unemployment figures only show that the number of new employed people is the same as the number that stopped claiming unemployment benefits!!!

And the figures are supposed to be believed...!!!???

And homeless... do you mean like these ones...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11324057/Surge-in-Romanian-rough-sleepers.html

"ONE IN TEN homeless people in London are Romanian or Bulgarian, shocking figures reveal.

Nationals from the two countries make up just one per cent of the capital’s population — but ten per cent of those sleeping on its streets.

A report from charity Broadway shows on average 1,672 people per night slept rough in London between May and October.

Advertisement

Of those, 157 were from Romania and 13 were from Bulgaria.

It also reveals the majority of London’s homeless are now from other countries.

Just 49 per cent were from the UK..."

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/5346092/1-in-10-of-London-homeless-are-Romanian-or-Bulgarian.html

Or maybe you mean people like this...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6971397/Beggar-filmed-getting-into-his-SPORTS-CAR-after-a-day-asking-for-money.html

I seriously cannot try and even attempt to show why Tommy clearly is terrible at maths, it that bad his maths
Can someone point out to him why those claiming income support has come down?
Or how I have explained these people are short term migrants

Over 5 years there would be one million more homeless Tommy, based on the belief more people are here on the disparity on NI numbers, so explain this please where they are?

Your figures on the homeless was less than 2,000

lol

Which again you do not know how many are still here being as many are short term migrants.
Maths really is not one of your strong points is it.

From Jan 2015 there was 2,071,000 unemployed and 31,030,000 in employment.
In Sept 2015 1,690,000 were unemployed and 31,420,000 in employment.

So based on the first 9 months of last year (the last 3 months not out yet) unemployment came down 381,000 and 390,000 more people were in employment.

Now Emigration from the UK was 300,000 on the latest figures for August 2014 to August 2015

Now how many of the above were in employment is difficult to say, though its fair to say a fair chunk of that number will be people who have retired. Even if we equated them to all being in employment, you still have 381,000 people in the UK who are no longer unemployed when they were at the beginning of 2015, before 600,000 EU migrants came.

So you tell me Tommy. Either we have gained hundreds of thousands of EU migrants penniless who applied for NI numbers and clearly do not have any jobs and we would see such an increase with the homeless. So whilst I could accept a couple of thousand, there has not been an increase of hundreds of thousands homeless in a year as clearly they have not claimed unemployment benefit when the numbers have come down. Then either these EU migrants are millionaires. Which if they are I doubt you are going to have an issue with. Or most likely they were[size=24] short term migrants.

Now job and unemployment stats is going to be far more accurate than migration stats, when it can take some time to ascertain if people have left who were short term migrants. Official migration figures are based on a survey of migrants as they enter and leave Britain, known as the International Passenger Survey. So its even more likely and possible that the stats on Net migration are wrong and the true Net Migration figure is at present way too high as its not based on short term migrants.

Which even the Daily Mail eludes to:

A possible explanation for the gap is that the ONS records only migrants who stay in Britain for more than a year, but people who work here for short periods of time require an NI number.[/size]

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:43 pm

So you are now trying to claim that 400000 people dropped off the unemployment figures because they retired...!?

lol!

If you are seriously going to try to claim the 400000 shortfall in figures is down to older people retiring...

Then what about the even bigger number of young people leaving school or college and adding to the numbers being either in work or unemployed...!?

Did they just disappear too...!?

lol!

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:51 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:So you are now trying to claim that 400000 people dropped off the unemployment figures because they retired...!?

If you are seriously going to try to claim the 400000 shortfall in figures is down to older people retiring...

Then what about the even bigger number of young people leaving school or college and adding to the numbers being either in work or unemployed...!?

Did they just disappear too...!?

Never laughed so much in ages

If at a year ago a size op people were unemployed claiming benefits.
Why is it now they are not and in employment?????
These people were here before the claim of 600,000 EU migrants came
So if those employed has gone up by 400,000 near enough the same as those less claiming, even with 300,000 emigrating and not even knowing non EU migrants coming and getting jobs would mean by Tommy, there must be at least 400,000 EU migrants homeless extra on are streets or all millionaires. And over 5 years this would mean either 1 million more homeless or millionaires

He then equates to a correlation to this by saying there is 1,600 sleeping rough in London

One moment

Immigration Figures Being Kept Secret 3489511464

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:57 pm

So now you admit the obvious discrepancies in the figures...!?

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:04 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:So now you admit the obvious discrepancies in the figures...!?

Nobody has denied there is a disparity based only on the application of obtaining an NI number, which in reality based on my reasoning would likely render Net migration to be in the minus.
I am so confident on this, I am emailing fullfact to investigate my points further

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:15 pm

You are so confident in your claim that you need to get it investigated...???

lol!

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:16 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:You are so confident in your claim that you need to get it investigated...???

Confirmed you mean.

lol

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:26 pm

You said 'investigated'...!!!

And it was me who pointed out the obvious disparity in the figures some time ago... which you tried to laugh down with waffle and then excuses about 400000 people retiring... while forgetting the even larger numbers being added to the workforce through young people leaving schools and colleges every year!!!

Which would actually throw an even bigger spanner in the works!!!

lol!

But now after being shown as a fool... you are admitting the glaring discrepancies in the figures... but still trying to claim victory on it all by claiming to be getting 'fullfact' to back up some spurious waffle of yours...!!!???

Most amusing!!!

lol!

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:28 pm

Yes investigated to confirm my thesis

Where is your stats on those retired Tommy? lol

Or did you just invent it based on still the fact you still have to account for why 400,000 people less claiming income support than a year ago, before these EU migrants came

Doh

by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:42 pm

pwned...!!!

lol!

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:43 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:pwned...!!!

What is pwned Tommy?

by Guest Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:44 pm

Pwn is a leetspeak slang term derived from the verb own, as meaningto appropriate or to conquer to gain ownership. The term implies domination or humiliation of a rival, used primarily in the Internet-based video game culture to taunt an opponent who has just been soundly defeated (e.g., "You just got pwned!").

Immigration Figures Being Kept Secret 3489511464

Even Tommy gets that wrong ha ha ha

by Tommy Monk Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:16 am

pwned again!!!

Most amusing!!!

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:17 am

Is that so tommy, based on your poor ability to understand maths

Immigration Figures Being Kept Secret 3489511464

by Tommy Monk Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:22 am

pwned again!!!

It was me who pointed out the massive hole in the figures!!!

You first denied it... then tried to excuse it... then you acknowledged it!!!

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:30 am

lol so you claim to show its flawed without backing it up with stats as evidence..

Or can explain why 400,000 people at the beginning of 2015 are no longer seeking income support

This is why you are such a child to debate with and your maths is appalling

What you fail to grasp is that many are short term migrants

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:39 am

And here is more evidence to back exactly what I have been saying

Overall the number of EU nationals working in Britain was just over two million between October and December last year, compared with 1.8 million for the same period a year earlier.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35594650

by Tommy Monk Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:04 am

The figures don't add up... as I pointed out... and you agreed with!!!

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:06 am

Which means many were short term migrants, even eluded to in the Daily Mail

A possible explanation for the gap is that the ONS records only migrants who stay in Britain for more than a year, but people who work here for short periods of time require an NI number.

by Tommy Monk Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:16 pm

But the discrepancy is seen when you compare the numbers with the employment and unemployment figures!!!

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:21 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:But the discrepancy is seen when you compare the numbers with the employment and unemployment figures!!!

Not at all, as can be seen people will retire and leave also, so far more jobs would then have been available last year.

Not that it matters, as we have the figure for EU getting jobs last year, just over 200,000

Showing you cannot accept that you are wrong lol

Now my work is done here, so I shall leave you to sulk Tommy

by Tommy Monk Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:37 pm

Oh my word!!!

Do I really have to explain the obvious flaw in the figures again to the cretin...!?

lol!

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