The Government wants to cut help for disabled people to buy specially adapted equipment

by Guest Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:57 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ministers are planning to cut a key element of the Personal Independent Payment

A coalition of 25 disability charities has written to the Government to warn against plans that would strip some disabled people of a key payments meant to help them live more independent lives.

The Disability Benefits Consortium wrote to the minister for disabled people, Justin Tomlinson, to argue that proposed changes to Personal Independence Payment – or PIP – assessments would have a “severe impact” on people’s security and make it harder for them to find work.

The Government wants to cut PIP payments for people who currently receive it to help them afford specially-adapted appliances and equipment.

Examples of qualifying equipment currently includes adapted cutlery for people who find it difficult to hold things for long periods of time and specially-designed household items for people less able to stand.

The Government says a review found the current payments were “not working as planned”, but charities say stripping disabled people of the assistance will hurt the most vulnerable.

“This decision could have a devastating impact on the lives of people with MS. In the worst cases, they could lose up to £150 a week,” said Michelle Mitchell, chief executive of the MS Society.

“PIP is an essential benefit which goes towards the extra cost of being disabled.

“The new plans will fail some of the most vulnerable people in society and we have serious concerns about the future health and welfare of those affected.”

The call comes a day after new figures from the Department for Work and Pensions showed that the assessment process for Employment and Support Allowance – another disability benefit – was putting people into the wrong category of a widespread scale.

Those figures showed that over half of appeals against ESA “fit to work” decisions were successful – and that thousands of people who were deemed “fit to work” were actually ill.

36 per cent of all ESA “fit to work” claims are appealed, meaning the mistakes affect a large number of people.
The Minister for Disabled People, Justin Tomlinson, said: “The introduction of Personal Independence Payment to replace the outdated Disability Living Allowance for working age claimants has been a hugely positive reform.

“But it is clear that the assessment criteria for aids and appliances are not working as planned. Many people are eligible for a weekly award despite having minimal to no extra costs and judicial decisions have expanded the criteria for aids and appliances to include items we would expect people to have in their homes already.

“We consulted widely to find the best approach. And this new change will ensure that PIP is fairer and targets support at those who need it most.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/disability-benefit-cuts-pip-personal-independent-payment-adapted-equipment-dwp-justin-tomlinson-iain-a6926041.html

Vile, vile, vile, disgusting scummy buggers!

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:06 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

OK, perhaps I worded it wrong. Why would a kitchen not have lightweight equipment? Nobody is forced to buy those ridiculously heavy pans you can get - I certainly wouldn't.

This is what it says.

this is the problem with using "tick boxes" it provides ammunition for the ill inclined....

see if for example you need lets say the first one

so you go to the assesment and they ask this "standard question" do you need an aid when cooking....thats 2 points

what THEY DONT ask is ...what else follows as a consequence of that need

so

a "pick up stick" .( you know them grabber things) to pick up what you drop on the floor
longer cords on the pull switches

all your electrical sockets moving to waist height

special plugs on all your gear becasue you cant grip mormal ones

special kitchen tools (like for instance the "good grip " range)

and the list is endless.....

they DONT ASK ABOUT THIS ...becasue it is a reasonable assumption that if you need lightweight kitchen gear...you WILL need the rest....

what are you going to do ...reverse that assumption and make them justify EVERY single little thing they need???

I hate to quote myself, but since Victor messed up the quote, I guess I'll have to.

Why are you assuming that someone who has trouble using heavy cooking equipment needs a pick-up stick, longer pull cords, or lower light switches?

Why to you bloody think.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:08 am

sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I hate to quote myself, but since Victor messed up the quote, I guess I'll have to.

Why are you assuming that someone who has trouble using heavy cooking equipment needs a pick-up stick, longer pull cords, or lower light switches?

Why to you bloody think.

Unless they were permanently in a wheelchair they wouldn't need longer pull cords or lower light switches would they? Needing to use light kitchen equipment doesn't imply that someone is in a wheelchair.

by Victorismyhero Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:10 am

because if they need lightweigt cooking gear...they will have problems with either their hands or other joints

therfore bending, reaching , pulling plugs etc will also be difficult

It is RARE in fact virtually unknown for a disability that requires light weight cooking gear to NOT affect other aspects of a persons life

tis btw is the assumption upon which the present system is based....

that if you have one or a number of specified needs, you WILL have others and this is then allowed for in te payment made...

the idea is that the system should be fair, flexible and easy to work with....

if you go down the oath of having to specify EVERY single individual need that a disability creates ...every person would have to write a book.....

by Victorismyhero Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:15 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I hate to quote myself, but since Victor messed up the quote, I guess I'll have to.

Why are you assuming that someone who has trouble using heavy cooking equipment needs a pick-up stick, longer pull cords, or lower light switches?

Why to you bloody think.

Unless they were permanently in a wheelchair they wouldn't need longer pull cords or lower light switches would they? Needing to use light kitchen equipment doesn't imply that someone is in a wheelchair.

ok so Mrs "X" has severe arthritis

it doesnt just affect the hands but shoulders and elbows....can she reach up and grasp a pull cord...or does it need to be lower... the ones I have are at shoulder height...could someone in that position reach up with their hand to that height...I doubt it...

can they bend sufficiently to reach an electrical socket at skirting level? I doubt it...

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:15 am

Lord Foul wrote:because if they need lightweigt cooking gear...they will have problems with either their hands or other joints

therfore bending, reaching , pulling plugs etc will also be difficult

It is RARE in fact virtually unknown for a disability that requires light weight cooking gear to NOT affect other aspects of a persons life

tis btw is the assumption upon which the present system is based....

that if you have one or a number of specified needs, you WILL have others and this is then allowed for in te payment made...

the idea is that the system should be fair, flexible and easy to work with....

if you go down the oath of having to specify EVERY single individual need that a disability creates ...every person would have to write a book.....

They might only have a problem with their hands though, and have no trouble bending or reaching. I presume they ask other questions when someone applies anyway.

If they need to move switches, wouldn't it be better for them to have a sort of grant rather than a weekly blanket payment?

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:17 am

Lord Foul wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Unless they were permanently in a wheelchair they wouldn't need longer pull cords or lower light switches would they? Needing to use light kitchen equipment doesn't imply that someone is in a wheelchair.

ok so Mrs "X" has severe arthritis

it doesnt just affect the hands but shoulders and elbows....can she reach up and grasp a pull cord...or does it need to be lower... the ones I have are at shoulder height...could someone in that position reach up with their hand to that height...I doubt it...

can they bend sufficiently to reach an electrical socket at skirting level? I doubt it...

It is truly scary Victor, that Rags, who represents a section of the general public, knows so little about the needs and requirement of disabled people, or even what disabilites require help and what help. I despair.

by Victorismyhero Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:18 am

see I have already one eye on the future...when i get decrepit ( i know some would say I already am Razz

)
and have moved the sockets up the wall throughout the bungalow
my hunting spaniel is trained to pick up things I drop on request....
etc....

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:20 am

Lord Foul wrote:see I have already one eye on the future...when i get decrepit ( i know some would say I already am )
and have moved the sockets up the wall throughout the bungalow
my hunting spaniel is trained to pick up things I drop on request....
etc....

My dad had a stair life put in when he was in his 70s, and a walk in bath. Have tried to persuade him to get the other things done, but he says it will make too much mess, and just struggles on!

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:20 am

Lord Foul wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Unless they were permanently in a wheelchair they wouldn't need longer pull cords or lower light switches would they? Needing to use light kitchen equipment doesn't imply that someone is in a wheelchair.

ok so Mrs "X" has severe arthritis

it doesnt just affect the hands but shoulders and elbows....can she reach up and grasp a pull cord...or does it need to be lower... the ones I have are at shoulder height...could someone in that position reach up with their hand to that height...I doubt it...

can they bend sufficiently to reach an electrical socket at skirting level? I doubt it...

Wouldn't they ask about those things as separate issues? The kitchen stuff was a specific question, which carried 2 points.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:21 am

sassy wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

ok so Mrs "X" has severe arthritis

it doesnt just affect the hands but shoulders and elbows....can she reach up and grasp a pull cord...or does it need to be lower... the ones I have are at shoulder height...could someone in that position reach up with their hand to that height...I doubt it...

can they bend sufficiently to reach an electrical socket at skirting level? I doubt it...

It is truly scary Victor, that Rags, who represents a section of the general public, knows so little about the needs and requirement of disabled people, or even what disabilites require help and what help. I despair.

Don't bother to start tag-teaming.

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:22 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
sassy wrote:

It is truly scary Victor, that Rags, who represents a section of the general public, knows so little about the needs and requirement of disabled people, or even what disabilites require help and what help. I despair.

Don't bother to start tag-teaming.

Oh my god, two people agree on things you don't and it's tag teaming. Get a life you idiot.

by Victorismyhero Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:23 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:because if they need lightweigt cooking gear...they will have problems with either their hands or other joints

therfore bending, reaching , pulling plugs etc will also be difficult

It is RARE in fact virtually unknown for a disability that requires light weight cooking gear to NOT affect other aspects of a persons life

tis btw is the assumption upon which the present system is based....

that if you have one or a number of specified needs, you WILL have others and this is then allowed for in te payment made...

the idea is that the system should be fair, flexible and easy to work with....

if you go down the oath of having to specify EVERY single individual need that a disability creates ...every person would have to write a book.....

They might only have a problem with their hands though, and have no trouble bending or reaching. I presume they ask other questions when someone applies anyway.

yes they do...along with specific questions (like can you pick up a liter jug of water) (which justifies the light weight kitchen gear)
they ask how the disabilty affects you "generally" i.e bending reaching twisting etc

If they need to move switches, wouldn't it be better for them to have a sort of grant rather than a weekly blanket payment?

for some things thats the case anyway, if they are considered "major works"

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:23 am

sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Don't bother to start tag-teaming.

Oh my god, two people agree on things you don't and it's tag teaming. Get a life you idiot.

No, you're addressing Victor and discussing me, rather than saying it to me directly - that's tag-teaming. If you have something to say about me, say it to me, not Victor.

You really are an utterly vile old woman.

by Victorismyhero Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:26 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
sassy wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

ok so Mrs "X" has severe arthritis

it doesnt just affect the hands but shoulders and elbows....can she reach up and grasp a pull cord...or does it need to be lower... the ones I have are at shoulder height...could someone in that position reach up with their hand to that height...I doubt it...

can they bend sufficiently to reach an electrical socket at skirting level? I doubt it...

It is truly scary Victor, that Rags, who represents a section of the general public, knows so little about the needs and requirement of disabled people, or even what disabilites require help and what help. I despair.

Don't bother to start tag-teaming.

give over raggs...I'm not "tag teaming" since I'm not discussing YOU within the thread, with another poster Mad

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:26 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
sassy wrote:

Oh my god, two people agree on things you don't and it's tag teaming. Get a life you idiot.

No, you're addressing Victor and discussing me, rather than saying it to me directly - that's tag-teaming. If you have something to say about me, say it to me, not Victor.

You really are an utterly vile old woman.

No, I said you were representative of a section of the general public, and the fact that section had no understanding of disabilities and their requirements.

The Government wants to cut help for disabled people to buy specially adapted equipment - Page 2 Headdesk

The Government wants to cut help for disabled people to buy specially adapted equipment - Page 2 Headdesk

by Victorismyhero Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:27 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Don't bother to start tag-teaming.

Oh my god, two people agree on things you don't and it's tag teaming. Get a life you idiot.

No, you're addressing Victor and discussing me, rather than saying it to me directly - that's tag-teaming. If you have something to say about me, say it to me, not Victor.

You really are an utterly vile old woman.

now now ladies...keep your merkins on

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin

The Government wants to cut help for disabled people to buy specially adapted equipment - Page 2 3489511464

The Government wants to cut help for disabled people to buy specially adapted equipment - Page 2 3489511464

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:28 am

Lord Foul wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

No, you're addressing Victor and discussing me, rather than saying it to me directly - that's tag-teaming. If you have something to say about me, say it to me, not Victor.

You really are an utterly vile old woman.

now now ladies...keep your merkins on

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin

Keep me merkin on! It's a job to keep my sanity talking to Rags.

by Victorismyhero Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:30 am

sigh.................

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:32 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

how patronising, and utterly humiliating could you get ....

moreover how much would be wasted in administering such a scheme...

and can you imagine this taken to its logical conclusion

you need a commode mrs "X"?

well your husband is a carpenter...he can make you one.... tough....

What's wrong with asking for a commode? They find what they need and then say how much it costs. Simple.

Actually NO its not that simple raggs
And i am an expert on this

by eddie Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:32 am

Makes you sigh every day.
Trust me Razz

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:32 am

Lord Foul wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Don't bother to start tag-teaming.

give over raggs...I'm not "tag teaming" since I'm not discussing YOU within the thread, with another poster

You weren't, but Sassy was - she was attempting to get you to do it too. It's to your credit that you didn't fall in with her.

by Victorismyhero Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:33 am

*************DISCUSS THE POST, NOT THE POSTER****************

if you want to bite the poster do so directly not via a third party

PUHLEEZE

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:34 am

When they assess people, why don't they just discuss with them their particular problems rather than have tick boxes? I mean they could have a list to refer to, but the disabled person knows what they have particular problems with don't they?

What they're saying is that they don't think someone needs £55 a week for lightweight kitchen equipment, a long-handled sponge, a chair, and a raised toilet seat which they can get for free anyway.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:34 am

Lord Foul wrote:*************DISCUSS THE POST, NOT THE POSTER****************

if you want to bite the poster do so directly not via a third party

PUHLEEZE

Exactly - and that's what Sassy was trying to do. She was talking about me to you.

by eddie Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:35 am

Does anyone else think Vic sounds very masterful?
Like a big fighting squirrel.

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:36 am

Lord Foul wrote:*************DISCUSS THE POST, NOT THE POSTER****************

if you want to bite the poster do so directly not via a third party

PUHLEEZE

You mean Rag's views are NOT representative of the section of socienty that knows fuck all about disability?

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:36 am

sassy wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

now now ladies...keep your merkins on

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin

Keep me merkin on! It's a job to keep my sanity talking to Rags.

Well don't then, and don't talk about me either.

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:37 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

ok so Mrs "X" has severe arthritis

it doesnt just affect the hands but shoulders and elbows....can she reach up and grasp a pull cord...or does it need to be lower... the ones I have are at shoulder height...could someone in that position reach up with their hand to that height...I doubt it...

can they bend sufficiently to reach an electrical socket at skirting level? I doubt it...

Wouldn't they ask about those things as separate issues? The kitchen stuff was a specific question, which carried 2 points.

you get a assessment of needs from the social work department but that doesn`t mean you get what they think you that need depends on budget and urgency and availability and who lives with the disabled person ,its far more complicated than you realize

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:37 am

sassy wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:*************DISCUSS THE POST, NOT THE POSTER****************

if you want to bite the poster do so directly not via a third party

PUHLEEZE

You mean Rag's views are NOT representative of the section of socienty that knows fuck all about disability?

How do you know I don't know anything about it? You know fuck all.

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:37 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:*************DISCUSS THE POST, NOT THE POSTER****************

if you want to bite the poster do so directly not via a third party

PUHLEEZE

Exactly - and that's what Sassy was trying to do. She was talking about me to you.

Never mind Raggs. You're tag-team partner will be along soon http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0dW4NqZNjow/UIay8uCbB4I/AAAAAAAAEoo/MQE6BikEQ0A/s1600/shadow+man.jpg …

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:38 am

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Wouldn't they ask about those things as separate issues? The kitchen stuff was a specific question, which carried 2 points.
you get a assessment of needs from the social work department but that doesn`t mean you get what they think you that need depends on budget and urgency and availability and who lives with the disabled person ,its far more complicated than you realize

Exactly, which is why they're saying that standard payments aren't working.

by Victorismyhero Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:38 am

Raggamuffin wrote:When they assess people, why don't they just discuss with them their particular problems rather than have tick boxes? I mean they could have a list to refer to, but the disabled person knows what they have particular problems with don't they?

yes, however....the paperwork would be immense.....

What they're saying is that they don't think someone needs £55 a week for lightweight kitchen equipment, a long-handled sponge, a chair, and a raised toilet seat which they can get for free anyway.

not really they were just quoted examples, which happen to be the "key questions" as it were that opens the door for all the other consequential problems.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:40 am

Lord Foul wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:When they assess people, why don't they just discuss with them their particular problems rather than have tick boxes? I mean they could have a list to refer to, but the disabled person knows what they have particular problems with don't they?

yes, however....the paperwork would be immense.....

What they're saying is that they don't think someone needs £55 a week for lightweight kitchen equipment, a long-handled sponge, a chair, and a raised toilet seat which they can get for free anyway.

not really they were just quoted examples, which happen to be the "key questions" as it were that opens the door for all the other consequential problems.

But it would be fairer wouldn't it? I think there are people who are getting money for things they don't need, and others who are not getting money for things they do need.

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:40 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
sassy wrote:

You mean Rag's views are NOT representative of the section of socienty that knows fuck all about disability?

How do you know I don't know anything about it? You know fuck all.

Well, seeing as I am disabled, I looked after a daughter who was disabled, I have a grandaughter who is disabled, took care of my mother when she was disabled and have a dad who is now disabled and who I'm going to look after when he has a hip operation at the end of this month, I know a lot more about it than you are ever likely to.

by Victorismyhero Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:40 am

eddie wrote:Does anyone else think Vic sounds very masterful?
Like a big fighting squirrel.

I'll bite your nuts

oh .....wait......

let me rethink that....

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:41 am

sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

How do you know I don't know anything about it? You know fuck all.

Well, seeing as I am disabled, I looked after a daughter who was disabled, I have a grandaughter who is disabled, took care of my mother when she was disabled and have a dad who is now disabled and who I'm going to look after when he has a hip operation at the end of this month, I know a lot more about it than you are ever likely to.

I mean you know fuck all about me. I don't need to read your life history. You just assume all the time that you're the only one who ever knows anything about anything.

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:41 am

Lord Foul wrote:
eddie wrote:Does anyone else think Vic sounds very masterful?
Like a big fighting squirrel.

I'll bite your nuts

oh .....wait......

let me rethink that....

Are you suggesting Eddie has nuts? Or is nuts, like the rest of us lol

by eddie Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:42 am

Lord Foul wrote:
eddie wrote:Does anyone else think Vic sounds very masterful?
Like a big fighting squirrel.

I'll bite your nuts

oh .....wait......

let me rethink that....

This is why you need to think things through Victor Rolling Eyes

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:43 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
you get a assessment of needs from the social work department but that doesn`t mean you get what they think you that need depends on budget and urgency and availability and who lives with the disabled person ,its far more complicated than you realize

Exactly, which is why they're saying that standard payments aren't working.

because it`s not enough
Not only that many things you cant get and i am not talking spoons and sponges and if you want them you need to find the money your self like i had to do for a wheelchair
yes i could get a push one free but a motorised one that she really needed
i had to find £3500

by Victorismyhero Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:43 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:When they assess people, why don't they just discuss with them their particular problems rather than have tick boxes? I mean they could have a list to refer to, but the disabled person knows what they have particular problems with don't they?

yes, however....the paperwork would be immense.....

What they're saying is that they don't think someone needs £55 a week for lightweight kitchen equipment, a long-handled sponge, a chair, and a raised toilet seat which they can get for free anyway.

not really they were just quoted examples, which happen to be the "key questions" as it were that opens the door for all the other consequential problems.

But it would be fairer wouldn't it? I think there are people who are getting money for things they don't need, and others who are not getting money for things they do need.

the problem is raggs...the admin costs for that sort of "personalised" system would be far more than present, far out weighing any possible savings...

this isnt about "evening up" the system...its about (as per usual) denying anything to those who need it

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:46 am

Lord Foul wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

But it would be fairer wouldn't it? I think there are people who are getting money for things they don't need, and others who are not getting money for things they do need.

the problem is raggs...the admin costs for that sort of "personalised" system would be far more than present, far out weighing any possible savings...

this isnt about "evening up" the system...its about (as per usual) denying anything to those who need it

They're changing the assessment criteria, although they haven't said what those changes will be. I don't think that's a bad thing for the reasons I've given.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:48 am

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Exactly, which is why they're saying that standard payments aren't working.
because it`s not enough
Not only that many things you cant get and i am not talking spoons and sponges and if you want them you need to find the money your self like i had to do for a wheelchair
yes i could get a push one free but a motorised one that she really needed
i had to find £3500

So they could save money by not giving someone money every week for a long-handled sponge, which would leave more for people who need a motorised wheelchair.

by Victorismyhero Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:57 am

sorry ragga...you just dont get it ....

bugger the sponge....that question...about the sponges has "implications" to do with reach range of motion in the joints etc...if you DO need the sponge...its certain you will have other likely more important needs....

try this....think for a bit about WHY...you would need a long handled sponge
then try to figure out what implications that has for , for example tying your shoe lace
or bending to floor level to pick something up etc etc etc

All the things YOU and I take for granted, aint so simple when your back is rigid, or your shoulders wont move through their proper range

try spending an ENTIRE day with a trouser belt round your upper body with your upper arms pinned by it....

thats the day that someone with arthritic shoulders has...except...you get off lightly, becasue you wont have the pain to deal with as well.....

everything from getting dressed to wiping your ass becomes a logistical and physical nightmare...

by Original Quill Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:33 am

Lord Foul wrote:sorry ragga...you just dont get it ....

bugger the sponge....that question...about the sponges has "implications" to do with reach range of motion in the joints etc...if you DO need the sponge...its certain you will have other likely more important needs....

try this....think for a bit about WHY...you would need a long handled sponge
then try to figure out what implications that has for , for example tying your shoe lace
or bending to floor level to pick something up etc etc etc

All the things YOU and I take for granted, aint so simple when your back is rigid, or your shoulders wont move through their proper range

try spending an ENTIRE day with a trouser belt round your upper body with your upper arms pinned by it....

thats the day that someone with arthritic shoulders has...except...you get off lightly, becasue you wont have the pain to deal with as well.....

everything from getting dressed to wiping your ass becomes a logistical and physical nightmare...

A little support (greenie) for that post. I spend my spare hours on transportation boards, fighting for the rights of the disabled and elderly. It is unbelievable how even the professionals in this world do not understand the trials and tribulations of the mobility impaired.

I help design bus systems. I suggest a stop. What do I hear? Oh, they can walk to the corner, a half-mile. WTF...have these people no sense? Do they not understand arthritis? Blindness? Loss of a leg? WTF have these people been, that they have suffered no difficulty in their lives?

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:00 am

Lord Foul wrote:sorry ragga...you just dont get it ....

bugger the sponge....that question...about the sponges has "implications" to do with reach range of motion in the joints etc...if you DO need the sponge...its certain you will have other likely more important needs....

try this....think for a bit about WHY...you would need a long handled sponge
then try to figure out what implications that has for , for example tying your shoe lace
or bending to floor level to pick something up etc etc etc

All the things YOU and I take for granted, aint so simple when your back is rigid, or your shoulders wont move through their proper range

try spending an ENTIRE day with a trouser belt round your upper body with your upper arms pinned by it....

thats the day that someone with arthritic shoulders has...except...you get off lightly, becasue you wont have the pain to deal with as well.....

everything from getting dressed to wiping your ass becomes a logistical and physical nightmare...

The point is that a claimant who gets 8 points can get £55 per week just on those four issues that I quoted. The Government is saying that they don't need that much money to deal with those particular issues because the equipment needed is either already in their home, they can get it cheap, or get it free. You're introducing new issues which are separate ones, and for which someone could probably could more points and more money.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:07 am

Maybe this article will make it clearer for you.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35793004

For example, some people are apparently claiming PIP on the grounds that they need a chair to get dressed. The Government is saying they already have a chair in their home, so they don't need extra money for one.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:09 am

Original Quill wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:sorry ragga...you just dont get it ....

bugger the sponge....that question...about the sponges has "implications" to do with reach range of motion in the joints etc...if you DO need the sponge...its certain you will have other likely more important needs....

try this....think for a bit about WHY...you would need a long handled sponge
then try to figure out what implications that has for , for example tying your shoe lace
or bending to floor level to pick something up etc etc etc

All the things YOU and I take for granted, aint so simple when your back is rigid, or your shoulders wont move through their proper range

try spending an ENTIRE day with a trouser belt round your upper body with your upper arms pinned by it....

thats the day that someone with arthritic shoulders has...except...you get off lightly, becasue you wont have the pain to deal with as well.....

everything from getting dressed to wiping your ass becomes a logistical and physical nightmare...

A little support (greenie) for that post. I spend my spare hours on transportation boards, fighting for the rights of the disabled and elderly. It is unbelievable how even the professionals in this world do not understand the trials and tribulations of the mobility impaired.

I help design bus systems. I suggest a stop. What do I hear? Oh, they can walk to the corner, a half-mile. WTF...have these people no sense? Do they not understand arthritis? Blindness? Loss of a leg? WTF have these people been, that they have suffered no difficulty in their lives?

This isn't about transport though, it's about the daily living component, and specifically about appliances or aids needed.

by Raggamuffin Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:22 am

The Department for Work and Pensions said that over the last six months there had been three legal judgements that had ruled a bed or chair could be classed as an aid or appliance if it helped someone get dressed or undressed.

What I'm getting from that is that some people are ticking the box about needing an appliance to help get dressed because they need to sit on a bed to get dressed. The Government isn't saying they don't need to sit on a bed to get dressed, they're saying they already have a bed so they don't need extra money for one. It's partly the definition of "appliance" or "aid" which is the issue.

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:27 am

I fail to see what the fuss is:

The government is changing the assessment criteria for the daily living component of Personal Independence Payment (PIP) to ensure the system is fairer with money targeted at those who need it most. As part of wider reforms to welfare, PIP was introduced to replace the outdated Disability Living Allowance. The changes follow an independent review to ensure the benefit was meeting its initial purpose – to help people with the extra cost of disability.

Paul Gray’s independent review found that the assessment criteria may not be working as planned. A subsequent review of cases by DWP health professionals identified that a significant number of people are likely to be getting the benefit despite having minimal to no ongoing daily living extra costs.
In addition, DWP data to December 2015 shows that 1 in 3 claimants receiving the daily living component of PIP do so solely as a result of needing aids or appliances. This figure has tripled in just 18 months. (Figures exclude those dealt with under special rules for a terminal illness).

DWP health professionals reviewed a number of these cases and in 96% of them the likely ongoing extra costs of daily living were nil, low or minimal. Many of the aids and appliances for which points are being awarded are likely to be already found in people’s homes, provided free by the NHS and local authorities, or can be bought for a low one-off cost.

The changes announced today will reduce the weight given to the use of aids and appliances in 2 of the 10 daily living activities – dressing and managing toilet needs – from January 2017 but aids and appliances will continue to be recognised through the assessment process. The department’s view is that using an aid or appliance for these two activities less reliably identifies extra costs associated with having a disability.
The Minister for Disabled People, Justin Tomlinson, said:

The introduction of Personal Independence Payment to replace the outdated Disability Living Allowance for working age claimants has been a hugely positive reform.
But it is clear that the assessment criteria for aids and appliances are not working as planned. Many people are eligible for a weekly award despite having minimal to no extra costs and judicial decisions have expanded the criteria for aids and appliances to include items we would expect people to have in their homes already.
We consulted widely to find the best approach. And this new change will ensure that PIP is fairer and targets support at those who need it most.

Currently a claimant could receive £55 a week by using an aid or appliance in as little as 4 activities, for example:

preparing food: lightweight kitchen equipment typically found in a home anyway or low cost one-off purchases (2 points)
washing and bathing: long-handled sponge with low or minimal costs (2 points)
managing toilet needs or incontinence: raised toilet seat provided by the NHS (2 points)
dressing and undressing: chair for sitting on typically found in a home anyway (2 points)

The changes to the assessment scores for aids and appliances within PIPfollow a 7 week constructive public consultation which generated around 300 responses.
The government continues to spend £50 billion a year on benefits to help people with disabilities or health conditions, and additional support is available to people who need it most.
PIP is also continually monitored for effectiveness to ensure it is delivering its original policy intent and that improvements are implemented where they are identified. A second independent review of PIP is due to be delivered by April 2017.

Background information

Over the course of the last 6 months there have been 3 legal judgments that have ruled a bed or chair can be classed as an aid or appliance if it helps someone get dressed or undressed.

https://www.gov.uk/dla-disability-living-allowance-benefit/eligibility

by Guest Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:35 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
The Department for Work and Pensions said that over the last six months there had been three legal judgements that had ruled a bed or chair could be classed as an aid or appliance if it helped someone get dressed or undressed.

What I'm getting from that is that some people are ticking the box about needing an appliance to help get dressed because they need to sit on a bed to get dressed. The Government isn't saying they don't need to sit on a bed to get dressed, they're saying they already have a bed so they don't need extra money for one. It's partly the definition of "appliance" or "aid" which is the issue.

Morning Rags

Spot on, this is about people receiving an amount they do not need and why for some it is going to be reduced
Clearly this is about people who have at least some mobility to the extent, the money is used to go towards the cost of daily help for people with aids to carry out tasks. If they have static aids already like beds, which they use, then why then would they need to receive the full amount?

What a load of fuss over nothing, where this is actually going to make it fairer.

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