The God of Chaos

by stardesk Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:27 pm

Hi gang, sitting having my breakfast my mind wandered into a fantasy scenario. Imagine it if you will:
God is lounging in his armchair with a cute Angel on his lap, when there's a knock at his door.
"Hello chief, we were wondering if you’ve got a cosy little planet we can live on."
"Yes," says he, pointing out the window at a little blue planet. "There’s one I’ve just made, now bugger off, I’m busy."
A little while later the door opens gingerly and the Alien stood there looking a bit crestfallen.
"We’re not living there! You must be joking, you didn’t do a very good job, did you. Some of the mountains are spewing out burning, boiling lava, the ground shakes and splits under our feet, the seas keep spilling over the land, there are bugs galore endangering our health, the wind keeps blowing down trees, and a host of other bad points. No way mate, bye bye, we’re off round the Galaxy to find somewhere more hospitable.” And who can blame them?

In the beginning was the word, and the word was -well, two words actually-: ‘Oh bugger!’ Despite the comment: Genesis 1. V. 31: ‘And God saw everything he had made, and, behold, it was very good…’ Lol, was it?

EARTHQUAKE 1456 AD Naples, Italy, 35,000 killed.
FLOOD 1421 AD Holland, 100,000 killed.
FLOOD 1362 AD Germany, 30,000 killed.
HAIL STORM 1359 AD France, 1,000 killed.
FLOOD/FAMINE 1332-33 Peking, China, 6 million killed.
BIG FREEZE 1315-17 AD across Ireland & Europe, many thousands died.
EARTHQUAKE 1290 AD Bohai, China, 100,000 killed.
EARTHQUAKE 1268 AD Asia Minor (now Turkey) 60,000 killed.
FLOOD 1219 AD Jutland/Denmark, many thousands.
EARTHQUAKE 1202 AD Lebanon, 100,000 Killed.
EARTHQUAKE & VOLCANO 1169 AD Mt. Etna & Sicily, 15,000 killed.
FLOOD 1099 AD East Coast UK. Many thousands.
DROUGHT/FAMINE 1199-1202 Egypt, 100,000 died.
EARTHQUAKE 1138 AD Syria, 230,000 killed.
DROUGHT 1069 AD England, 50,000 Died.
DROUGHT/FAMINE 1064-72 Egypt 4,000 Died.
EARTHQUAKE 1040 AD Iran 50,000 killed.
EARTHQUAKE 1038 AD Shanxi Province, China, 23,000 killed.
EARTHQUAKE 893 AD Iran 150,000 killed.
EARTHQUAKE 856 AD Iran 200,000 & Greece 45,000 = 245,000 killed.
EARTHQUAKE 526 AD Antioch region Syria/Turkey: 250,000 killed.
EARTHQUAKE & TSUNAMI 365 AD Egypt/Alexandria 50,000 killed.
PLAGUE 164-180 AD Throughout Syria & Europe: 7 Million.
EPIDEMIC 166 AD throughout Middle East & Europe: 1/3 rd of the population.
VOLCANO 79 AD Vesuvius, Italy: 16,000 killed.
EARTHQUAKE 217 BC Alexandria, Egypt: 75,000 killed.
AVALANCHE 218 BC Italian Alps: 18,000 killed.
EARTHQUAKE 373 BC Greece: Many thousands killed.
EARTHQUAKE 464 BC Greece: 20,000 killed.
FAMINE/DROUGHT 3,500 BC Egypt: Many thousands perish.
BIG FREEZE 10,000 BC Siberia: Woolley Mammoths extinguished.
METEOR STRIKE Siberia: 39 mya Many life-forms extinguished such as birds and animals.
DEVONIAN PERIOD: 70% of life killed.
CRETACEOUS PERIOD 65 mya meteorite in USA kills 75% of life.
PERMIAN PERIOD: 250 mya: Volcanoes in Siberia killed 90%, mass extinction.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shall I go on? For since 1456 there have been many more millions of people killed, such as the Bubonic Plague which swept through Europe, the Middle East, and N. Africa between 1346 & 1352 AD. Killing 30 million. There have been many more plagues and natural disasters which have killed many millions of people. A long list of fatalities caused by our unstable planet. Negative thinking you might say, but no, just being realistic and factual.

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:31 pm

stardesk wrote:Hi gang, sitting having my breakfast my mind wandered into a fantasy scenario.

Shall I go on?

Your mind seems to spend all its time in fantasy scenarios, so no change there.

I'm sure you will go on - and on, and on, and on ...

by Guest Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:40 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
stardesk wrote:Hi gang, sitting having my breakfast my mind wandered into a fantasy scenario.

Shall I go on?

Your mind seems to spend all its time in fantasy scenarios, so no change there.

I'm sure you will go on - and on, and on, and on ...

For someone who claims to be a follower of Christ, you show all the hallmarks of someone bitter and hateful, just because people stand up for what is right.
The question you should ask yourself is why you hold so much hate for people just because they challenge your beliefs. As then its not you having any form of control of your life, but your beliefs manipulating you.

That makes you an utter sheep and devoid of free will

If Christ taught love, you surely missed that lesson along the way

by Guest Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:29 pm

StarDesk stated >>> Shall I go on? For since 1456 there have been many more millions of people killed, such as the Bubonic Plague which swept through Europe, the Middle East, and N. Africa between 1346 & 1352 AD. Killing 30 million. There have been many more plagues and natural disasters which have killed many millions of people. A long list of fatalities caused by our unstable planet. Negative thinking you might say, but no, just being realistic and factual.

If anyone with a true OPEN MIND, does some serious bible study and I don't mean the kind that gets thrown at you from the pulpit on any given Sunday --- serious bibilical/in depth reading; well the reasons and knee-jerk/oxymoron reactions from the #1 sky pilot will astound you! SMH - the number of times he treated humanity as his very own play things and tortured humans just for SPORT---beyond the pale! But to abuse and use Lucifer as his #1 fairy book reasoning for establishing the 'Good vs Villain' theory was all due to Satan's being "PRIDE FULL/Vain" ---
SERIOUSLY --- and people just went along with that Story Board Load Of Crap???

The worst of the worst for heinous actions and lifestyles will be forgiven "ALL TRANSGRESSIONS/SINS" if they just ask for forgiveness &/or salvation from 'GOD'...and Lucifer gets tossed out of heaven for being 'VAIN' --- HOLY BAT CRAP BATMAN affraid

Ironic isn't it?

by stardesk Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:31 pm

Hi Didge. I see he's being his usual self, critical and unconstructive, unable to contribute sensibly to a discussion. Oh well, it takes all sorts I suppose.

Hi Aspca. As I've said before, Creationists blame Satan for the world's catastrophes. If he was rsponsible that makes him more powerful than God himself, to be able to undo God's creations makes him a very powerful god indeed.

by Guest Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:01 pm

stardesk wrote:Hi Didge. I see he's being his usual self, critical and unconstructive, unable to contribute sensibly to a discussion. Oh well, it takes all sorts I suppose.

Hi Aspca. As I've said before, Creationists blame Satan for the world's catastrophes. If he was rsponsible that makes him more powerful than God himself, to be able to undo God's creations makes him a very powerful god indeed.

I've often found it astounding that the very humans that will buy into the entire 'WWJD' rhetoric and 'Turn It Over To God' {talking points and catch phrases} don't really have a clue about the numerous times that 'SKY PILOT = GOD' treated his human-life-forms as nothing more then his toys to knock around at will and to make a mockery out of their life struggles --- just because he could!
Seriously, for anyone doubting my reasoning --- read how heinous 'GOD' supposedly set up and abused JOB or the 12 life lessons that he dumped upon Abraham --- that's just seriously TWISTED SHIT!

by eddie Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:24 pm

Its a shame that the bible exists really, because people always use this argument as an argument against a "God" existing.....

He didn't write it, you know....

by Guest Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:50 pm

eddie wrote:Its a shame that the bible exists really, because people always use this argument as an argument against a "God" existing.....

He didn't write it, you know....

Well, as redundant as that statement is >>>

It is indeed quite a sustaining FACT --- there isn't any #1 GOD; he's a mythical compilation of many fables/idols and pagan deities pulled together to keep the rabble/hoarding humans into a mass of slightly controlled humanity: keep those tithes and offerings coming into the support the hierarchy pyramid system!

Who created the Bible, How, Why and When

According to Tacitus the Jewish religion was nothing more than a superstition so the question arises why was this so and how did it come into being.

After the conquest of Alexander the Great most of Syria-Palestine was Hellenised within a generation. The southern part of the land was an Egyptian vassal until Antiochus Epiphanies conquered Egypt and took southern Palestine for himself.

Tacitus (Annals Book 5)
While the East was under the sway of the Assyrians, the Medes, and the Persians, Jews were the most contemptible of the subject tribes. When the Macedonians became supreme, King Antiochus strove to destroy the national superstition, and to introduce Greek civilization, but was prevented by his war with the Parthians from at all improving this vilest of nations; for at this time the revolt of Arsaces had taken place. The Macedonian power was now weak, while the Parthian had not yet reached its full strength, and, as the Romans were still far off, the Jews chose kings for themselves. Expelled by the fickle populace, and regaining their throne by force of arms, these princes, while they ventured on the wholesale banishment of their subjects, on the destruction of cities, on the murder of brothers, wives, and parents, and the other usual atrocities of despots, fostered the national superstition by appropriating the dignity of the priesthood as the support of their political power.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes at the request of the people replaced the High Priest Jesus (Jason) with another Onias (Meneleus) who was not of the priestly line. The practice of circumcision and similar barbaric customs that had been imported from Egypt centuries earlier were to be replaced by more civilised practices. Antiochus and the Jewish priesthood obviously did not want any Egyptian customs to continue since this would allow Ptolemy to control the people of the newly acquired southern provinces who had previously been vassals of Egypt.

The people were no different to any other people of the region and believed in many Gods and superstitions based on ancestor worship. These superstitions were derived from corruptions of the mythologised local history which had been written down by the Greeks and deposited in Library of Alexandria. This history was based on documents which recorded the missions to Palestine of Egyptian emissaries, first born sons who were taken from their families by Pharaoh, educated in Egypt and then sent back as messengers such as Isaiah, Eli and Moses, the so-called prophets. According to Josephus the Jews believed in the imminent resurrection or reincarnation of the Prophets and their return to Palestine to save the people. These superstitions became a political tool which was used by a tribe of Bedouin Arabs, the Hasmodians or Maccabees who wanted to gain power themselves, as a basis to ignite campaign of terror which eventually lead to an all out civil war.
http://www.argyrou.eclipse.co.uk/myths/bible/Bible.htm

But...Oh-boy, what a titillating story board and amusing fictional written book.
I would love to have been a fly on those walls to hear the rhyme & reasons that those scholars argued over for what got saved and printed and what just wasn't going to 'FIT INTO THE FLOW OF MAKE BELIEVE' --- now that would be an ear full of insightful male conversation! The God of Chaos 265384880

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:45 pm

stardesk wrote:Hi Didge. I see he's being his usual self, critical and unconstructive, unable to contribute sensibly to a discussion. Oh well, it takes all sorts I suppose.

Hi Aspca. As I've said before, Creationists blame Satan for the world's catastrophes. If he was rsponsible that makes him more powerful than God himself, to be able to undo God's creations makes him a very powerful god indeed.

I'm entitled to reply to your blasphemous posts. You don't believe in God, and yet you sit here mocking him and his followers nearly every day.

by Ben Reilly Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:00 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
stardesk wrote:Hi Didge. I see he's being his usual self, critical and unconstructive, unable to contribute sensibly to a discussion. Oh well, it takes all sorts I suppose.

Hi Aspca. As I've said before, Creationists blame Satan for the world's catastrophes. If he was rsponsible that makes him more powerful than God himself, to be able to undo God's creations makes him a very powerful god indeed.

I'm entitled to reply to your blasphemous posts. You don't believe in God, and yet you sit here mocking him and his followers nearly every day.

If you had the power, would you stop people from making what you call "blasphemous posts"?

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:04 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm entitled to reply to your blasphemous posts. You don't believe in God, and yet you sit here mocking him and his followers nearly every day.

If you had the power, would you stop people from making what you call "blasphemous posts"?

I don't, so it's not a valid question. I am, however, entitled to point out that a post is blasphemous, or do you disagree?

by Guest Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:10 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
stardesk wrote:Hi Didge. I see he's being his usual self, critical and unconstructive, unable to contribute sensibly to a discussion. Oh well, it takes all sorts I suppose.

Hi Aspca. As I've said before, Creationists blame Satan for the world's catastrophes. If he was rsponsible that makes him more powerful than God himself, to be able to undo God's creations makes him a very powerful god indeed.

I'm entitled to reply to your blasphemous posts. You don't believe in God, and yet you sit here mocking him and his followers nearly every day.

I am also able to pull you up for showing the least traits of a follower of Christ

by Ben Reilly Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:16 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm entitled to reply to your blasphemous posts. You don't believe in God, and yet you sit here mocking him and his followers nearly every day.

If you had the power, would you stop people from making what you call "blasphemous posts"?

I don't, so it's not a valid question. I am, however, entitled to point out that a post is blasphemous, or do you disagree?

We have the right to our opinions. Sorry if that question came off more accusatory than I intended.

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:19 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't, so it's not a valid question. I am, however, entitled to point out that a post is blasphemous, or do you disagree?

We have the right to our opinions. Sorry if that question came off more accusatory than I intended.

Thank you.

by stardesk Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:30 pm

Raggy, I'll try to reach you one more time: Instead of being critical of posters why don't you put a mature, logical -from your point of view,- counter arguement?

I don't care who believes in what, it is the false information fed to believers that I don't like and where possible I'll pull it to bits.

by stardesk Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:31 pm

Raggy, I'll try to reach you one more time: Instead of being critical of posters why don't you put a mature, logical -from your point of view,- counter arguement?

I don't care who believes in what, it is the false information fed to believers that I don't like and where possible I'll pull it to bits.

Oops, sorry, I didn't think it had loaded.

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:36 pm

stardesk wrote:Raggy, I'll try to reach you one more time: Instead of being critical of posters why don't you put a mature, logical -from your point of view,- counter arguement?

I don't care who believes in what, it is the false information fed to believers that I don't like and where possible I'll pull it to bits.

Been there, done that - several times on here. People like you aren't interested in hearing the other side - you just want to mock those with faith.

I've asked you several times why you care about this allegedly "false information", and you failed to answer.

by Guest Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:43 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
stardesk wrote:Raggy, I'll try to reach you one more time: Instead of being critical of posters why don't you put a mature, logical -from your point of view,- counter arguement?

I don't care who believes in what, it is the false information fed to believers that I don't like and where possible I'll pull it to bits.

Been there, done that - several times on here. People like you aren't interested in hearing the other side - you just want to mock those with faith.

I've asked you several times why you care about this allegedly "false information", and you failed to answer.

He has answered many times, you clearly were ignoring the reasons as you constantly do

Clearly talking about religion is to upsetting for you which is another problem with religion itself

The very fact people take it so personally is a troubling factor, as none of it has any evidence

by stardesk Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:59 pm

Indeed Didge, it is troubling to see people, especially youngsters, being taught and believing what isn't true. We know that some of the characters in the New Testament did exist but it is some of the stories in the Old Testament which are simply not true and non-factual.

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:00 pm

stardesk wrote:Indeed Didge, it is troubling to see people, especially youngsters, being taught and believing what isn't true. We know that some of the characters in the New Testament did exist but it is some of the stories in the Old Testament which are simply not true and non-factual.

Why is this a problem for you? How do you know it's not true?

by Guest Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:03 pm

stardesk wrote:Indeed Didge, it is troubling to see people, especially youngsters, being taught and believing what isn't true. We know that some of the characters in the New Testament did exist but it is some of the stories in the Old Testament which are simply not true and non-factual.

There is very little evidence and many stories in the Old Testament are plagiarized from earlier myths

It is sad some are brainwashed from an early age with such rubbish

by Guest Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:10 pm

stardesk wrote:Raggy, I'll try to reach you one more time: Instead of being critical of posters why don't you put a mature, logical -from your point of view,- counter arguement?

I don't care who believes in what, it is the false information fed to believers that I don't like and where possible I'll pull it to bits.

Yes...yet another simplistic image from 'ME' and yet it encompasses what/why/how I deeply feel about faith & GOD {aka SKY GOD/SKY KING}

The God of Chaos D1d362151a70f0c78830fc686c8350faa6c9e96c_r

The God of Chaos D1d362151a70f0c78830fc686c8350faa6c9e96c_r

BTW - it's not that I'm an 'ATHEIST' by any firm definition; the method of 'do what I preach - not what or how I act' from previous Southern Baptist Preachers kept shoving me in the search for more definitive answers!

When the pillars/deacons/preachers of any given church come back at the person asking for 'clarity and more in depth answers'...with nothing more than angry attitude and punishment --- leaves a real - REAL bad taste in a young person's mind and a huge feeling of distrust.

by Guest Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:24 pm

Didge wrote:
stardesk wrote:Indeed Didge, it is troubling to see people, especially youngsters, being taught and believing what isn't true. We know that some of the characters in the New Testament did exist but it is some of the stories in the Old Testament which are simply not true and non-factual.

There is very little evidence and many stories in the Old Testament are plagiarized from earlier myths
It is sad some are brainwashed from an early age with such rubbish

Truth to that statement --- lives in all of the ancient written papers of the Asian region --- hundreds of years before the Birth of Christ; and yet the fable and word of mouth resemblances for quotated references from Buddha/Confucius/Tao and many other 'pre-biblical scrolls' that have the "same basic story lines and moral of the story is."

But if the BELIEVER isn't willing to or open minded enough to exam/look/read about those plagiarized scriptures then they won't know The God of Chaos 2190311264

and they just won't CARE. The God of Chaos 2396444674

But the mire fact that others question/discuss & challenge the BIBLE just angers those that don't want to learn. The God of Chaos 2113235493

What's that old saying; 'you can drag a horse to water but you can't make them drink' --- rather like and éclairissement into the basis of early religion and where it really all derived from and why it's such a huge tool for controlling society.

The God of Chaos F93b7a4715e27a253525d66df740600f

The God of Chaos F93b7a4715e27a253525d66df740600f

by Guest Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:37 pm

And given the recent media attention given to the Muslim refugee's it behooves all of us to be better informed and educate ourselves to the TRUE faith that these people follow instead of their own version of the EXTEMIST {nut jobs} that are garnering so very much of our media/news attention & time.
All of these faith based named religions have far more specific items in common then they do that separate them --- but it's the ignorance that breeds the hate that is compiling so many to turn against the Muslims; fear and hate...such a double edged sword. IMHO
The God of Chaos MQA

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:50 pm

The OP is the paradigm of illogical thinking.
a Miniscule list of bad things compared to an Infinite list of times life has been successful. it is simply negativity bias being displayed by Stardesk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_bias

has the planet not supported life this whole time?
Really in comparison to the majority of planets Earth is remarkably stable.
So YES it is Entirely negative thinking that is not based in an objective view of reality.
because we have a few Billion Years of the existance of Life to support that Earth Is Awesome, the most livable planet for 10,000's of light years in any direction.

thus the point of the Op is "Some fairy-tale is wrong and I am right because look at all the places it got it wrong" at no single point does it ever define or support it's own position.

gods and the universe is NOT a binary proposition proving the bible wrong does not do anything but prove one fairy-tale wrong. It DOES NOT support the Atheist Position AT ALL. All you can do it prove it to be a fairy-tale and Thus Irrelevant.
Once it has been define as Irrelevant using it to try and justify anything is simply stupidity, a display of absolute lack of comprehension and logic.

I used to support Humanist ideal until I started to realise how stupid huamns are, even when the escape the bounds of orgasnised relgions, they are just hypocritical illogical monkeys.

by Victorismyhero Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:52 pm

ooook

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:42 am

veya_victaous wrote:The OP is the paradigm of illogical thinking.
a Miniscule list of bad things compared to an Infinite list of times life has been successful. it is simply negativity bias being displayed by Stardesk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_bias

has the planet not supported life this whole time?
Really in comparison to the majority of planets Earth is remarkably stable.
So YES it is Entirely negative thinking that is not based in an objective view of reality.
because we have a few Billion Years of the existance of Life to support that Earth Is Awesome, the most livable planet for 10,000's of light years in any direction.

thus the point of the Op is "Some fairy-tale is wrong and I am right because look at all the places it got it wrong" at no single point does it ever define or support it's own position.
gods and the universe is NOT a binary proposition proving the bible wrong does not do anything but prove one fairy-tale wrong. It DOES NOT support the Atheist Position AT ALL. All you can do it prove it to be a fairy-tale and Thus Irrelevant.
Once it has been define as Irrelevant using it to try and justify anything is simply stupidity, a display of absolute lack of comprehension and logic.

I used to support Humanist ideal until I started to realise how stupid huamns are, even when the escape the bounds of orgasnised relgions, they are just hypocritical illogical monkeys.

What StarDesk posted >>>

In the beginning was the word, and the word was -well, two words actually-: ‘Oh bugger!’ Despite the comment: Genesis 1. V. 31: ‘And God saw everything he had made, and, behold, it was very good…’ Lol, was it?

Isn't it worth an adult discussion to pick at the way that 'Creationist' grasp so firmly to their solid belief system that 'GOD' did indeed make all of this --- the good/bad/ugly of our world?

We surely can't just gloss over the mistakes, the arrant problems, the methods that were used {if the bible is to be held 100% accurate} to control the environment - his humanoid creations and all of the things that were done to them?

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:13 am

@ASPCA
do you believe in evolution?
do you believe that homo sapiens is evolved from a social primate?
Do you believe that 2000 odd years ago people magically got a message that accurately described Earth and the universe?

if you answered Yes to the first 2 then that explains why not only Creationist but all homo sapiens grasp so firmly to their belief’s. it is in our DNA.

if you answered no to the 3rd then yes we can 'gloss over' as we have already established it's meaningfulness is on par with humpty dumpty and all the kings horses.

Unless of Course the Purposes is to Convert, to carry a crusade against those that do not believe the same as you? Rolling Eyes

.(like didge and Star)
In which case is the movement you stand with really any better? maybe it has a more accurate description of the universe but as Homo sapiens don’t have a complete description of the universe to claim it is Accurate is as inaccurate as claiming the bible is fact.

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:40 am

In which case is the movement you stand with really any better?

Hmmm, don't know if I'm a "MOVEMENT" or just a thinking human that learns {and craves more education} about our technology {who/what/how/why} expands our greater understanding about; where we've been - where we are going - how we evolved into the human form that we see around me now!
In order to explain 'ME';
I don't believe in the 'SKY KING/GOD' object - can't blame a single deity type of spirit so bent on doing so many really twisted shit to humans.
I do believe in greater spirits and a hierarchy of ancestors that have been a huge presence in my life.
I do know that for whatever reason those relatives return sometimes to assist us in our deepest moments of need.
I do not attest/join any formalized religion for the very reasons that I've stated before on several other topics around here!

But basically; formalized religion is just proven to be far to controlling/polarizing/bigoted and not at all what they try to preach that it should be.
That might make me a 'UFO' Tin-Foil Hatter; but I don't think so. confused

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:47 am

LOL
beware the 'New Atheists' they will try and crucify you too. Razz

to explain my position I am a polythiest agnositic Or Panthiest (can't decided)
I think if there is a god then there is multipule because nothing else in the universe including quite possibley the universe itself exists in singluarity.

Or Panthiesm based on the laws of relativity and time/space theory

Plus
Trees etc have souls every bit as valuable as humans,
If there is a universal Morality or purpose it should be the same for all life forms from virus to whale and everything inbetween.
So I really cant say any one has a tinfoil hat. Wink

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:43 am

veya_victaous wrote:LOL
beware the 'New Atheists' they will try and crucify you too.

to explain my position I am a polythiest agnositic Or Panthiest (can't decided)
I think if there is a god then there is multipule because nothing else in the universe including quite possibley the universe itself exists in singluarity.

Or Panthiesm based on the laws of relativity and time/space theory

Plus
Trees etc have souls every bit as valuable as humans,
If there is a universal Morality or purpose it should be the same for all life forms from virus to whale and everything inbetween.
So I really cant say any one has a tinfoil hat.

I have a dear long time Internet Friend from Norway and he's a 'Rastafarian' and he's always telling me: 'standing in the middle of the road/fence sitting will often get you shot at from both sides of these issues"! Guess, that will apply to my being a registered Independent for political issues as well.

But that belief you have about all things having a 'SOUL'; exactly what my grandfather {½ blood UTE Indian} taught me early on --- everything has a 'SPIRIT' and should always be honored/respected and given the proper burial ceremony if killed for the daily meal. I honor all things that I plant - dig up and relocate and I'm a 'tree hugger' from way back! The God of Chaos 3986371719

by stardesk Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:26 am

Quoting Raggy from up the page: 'Been there, done that - several times on here. People like you aren't interested in hearing the other side - you just want to mock those with faith.

I've asked you several times why you care about this allegedly "false information", and you failed to answer.'
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Failed to answer??? You must be joking, several times in other topics I've given proof that some Bible stories just could not have happened as told in the Book. One more time I'll say: There are approximately 30 million species of life on Earth, no way could Noah have carried out the following: Genesis 7. v 14: '...every beast after its kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after its kind, and every fowl after its kind, and every bird of every sort.'

Noah would have needed a huge fleet of ships sailing around the world collecting two of every kind. Did he have animals from all the continents such as Kangaroos and Koala from Australia, Lions and leopards, elephants, camels, hippos, crocs, several species of deer, hundreds of species of snakes, insects, Polar Bears, Tigers from India, the list in monumental and too many to put here, but I'm sure you get the message.

The Flood: Genesis 7. v. 19: 'and the waters overwhelmed the earth so greatly that all the tall mountains that were under the whole heavens came to be covered.'

Everest is 5miles and 21ft high above sea level, this mean that thw whole planet would have been covered by five miles of water, also that amount of water and its pressure would have seeped/poured down into volcanos and other deep fissures causing huge explosions. Goodbye planet Earth! Nothing, absolutely nothing would have survived, not a worm, a gnat, a leaf, nothing!
And if you think that Noah's collection of plants and animals were enough to give us 30m species, you are very mistaken.
NB: I'm sure you know what its like when you put a hot frying pan under a cold tap, whoosh and fizz. Stand back.

One last shot across the bows: Genesis 8. v. 3: '...and the waters began receding...'

Please, tell me, if the whole planet is covered in water 5 miles high, where oh where can it reced to?
----------------------------------------------
As I've said I accept that people want/need to believe in a god but it's the false information fed to believers that I cannot and will not accept.

Over to you Raggy and anyone else who can answer these questions.

by Raggamuffin Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:50 am

Stardesk, you did not answer the question. I'm not asking you what the "false information" is, the question was why do you care about this alleged "false information"? What is it to you if some people believe that there was a flood and that Noah had an ark with animals on it?

by eddie Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:57 am

Morning star,
Another thing you may not be considering is this:
Perhaps there's a God but the bible isn't true?

by stardesk Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:01 pm

Hi Eddie. You're right, of course. Whislt the geological scenario may be biblically false, there may well be a god and as we know, many of the stories were created by men in primitive times, who didn't understand the workings of the planet.

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:37 pm

eddie wrote:Morning star,
Another thing you may not be considering is this:
Perhaps there's a God but the bible isn't true?

Well, perfect point; as we've all acknowledged --- that was a HUMAN MALE selection committee that pulled together the final BIBLE draft --- what they deemed necessary and what was left on the floor/cast off would be an interesting read as well. IMHO

And as rapid as the spread of Christianity {via the crusades and RCC missions} there were far advanced native cultures that had within there own communities --- something of faith value and it held their social order together.

My mothers father's own verbal history of the 'UTE' tribal belief system and then from my fathers - father 'Ojibwa' tribal belief system were so tightly similar as to be taught by/from one single source. I don't doubt that human life forms crave and need some structure and that aided in keeping social order in place; my continued search is for the 'WHY DO YOU BELEIVE EVERY LITTLE MINUTE VERBIAGE' within that man-made-publication as if it's FACTUAL??? Suspect

But recently, I'm finding that obtaining an answer is as difficult as holding water in the palm of my cupped hands while asking our fellow Americans --- WTF are you thinking, wanting Chump-Trump to be our POTUS? The God of Chaos 1780941361

by stardesk Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:03 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Stardesk, you did not answer the question. I'm not asking you what the "false information" is, the question was why do you care about this alleged "false information"? What is it to you if some people believe that there was a flood and that Noah had an ark with animals on it?

Hi Raggy. It's a question of false information being taught to believers and would be believers. I have no arguement whether there is/or not a god. If that's what people believe, and if it helps them through life, that's okay, no problem, but I can't help pointing out some of the wrongful and misleading information in the Bible. The 10 commandments are exemplory, a guide to safe living with codes of conduct that bring just rewards. That, I have no arguement with.

If Christianity had started with the New testament, and shelved the Old Testament that too would have been okay. I just don't approve of youngsters and even adults being fed utter nonsense and going away believing it.

by eddie Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:10 pm

stardesk wrote:Hi Eddie. You're right, of course. Whislt the geological scenario may be biblically false, there may well be a god and as we know, many of the stories were created by men in primitive times, who didn't understand the workings of the planet.

Ive never believed in the bible or any other religions book.
It isn't very probable that any of those stories are correct but some of them have nice moral lessons in them though.
But they're just that; stories.

by stardesk Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:02 pm

Evening all. ASPCA, hi. Further back up the page you mentioned Moslems. I don't know if you've ever read the Koran. If you can get hold of a copy to save time browse the index and there you will see dozens and dozens of references to the same charcters and situations as are in the Bible. The Koran and Islam would seem to be a copy of Christianity which would have been well known throughout the Middle East.

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:20 pm

stardesk wrote:Evening all. ASPCA, hi. Further back up the page you mentioned Moslems. I don't know if you've ever read the Koran. If you can get hold of a copy to save time browse the index and there you will see dozens and dozens of references to the same charcters and situations as are in the Bible. The Koran and Islam would seem to be a copy of Christianity which would have been well known throughout the Middle East.

I have pointed that out for years star

And that the sentiments of BOTH books the OT and the Koran are exactly the same

Nobody listens

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:32 pm

eddie wrote:
stardesk wrote:Hi Eddie. You're right, of course. Whislt the geological scenario may be biblically false, there may well be a god and as we know, many of the stories were created by men in primitive times, who didn't understand the workings of the planet.

Ive never believed in the bible or any other religions book.
It isn't very probable that any of those stories are correct but some of them have nice moral lessons in them though.
But they're just that; stories.

Exactly the bible is like a compendium of moral lessons told in story form taught 2000 years + ago
Like the brothers Grimm ,Hans Christian Anderson ect of their age
Or the movie`s made by Marvel,Warner brothers,20th century Fox ect
story`s with underlying moral messages

but they are just story`s

by veya_victaous Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:53 pm

korban dallas wrote:
stardesk wrote:Evening all. ASPCA, hi. Further back up the page you mentioned Moslems. I don't know if you've ever read the Koran. If you can get hold of a copy to save time browse the index and there you will see dozens and dozens of references to the same charcters and situations as are in the Bible. The Koran and Islam would seem to be a copy of Christianity which would have been well known throughout the Middle East.
I have pointed that out for years star

And that the sentiments of BOTH books the OT and the Koran are exactly the same

Nobody listens

they are a trilogy

The God of Chaos Desert-trilogy-vik-religion-1389305929

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:01 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
I have pointed that out for years star

And that the sentiments of BOTH books the OT and the Koran are exactly the same

Nobody listens

they are a trilogy

lol

interestingly the "bible" as a whole is actually made up of 3 separate books mashed in to one as i recall seeing on discovery
this is one of the reasons its so contradictory

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:06 pm

korban dallas wrote:
eddie wrote:

Ive never believed in the bible or any other religions book.
It isn't very probable that any of those stories are correct but some of them have nice moral lessons in them though.
But they're just that; stories.
Exactly the bible is like a compendium of moral lessons told in story form taught 2000 years + ago
Like the brothers Grimm ,Hans Christian Anderson ect of their age
Or the movie`s made by Marvel,Warner brothers,20th century Fox ect
story`s with underlying moral messages

but they are just story`s

Some of the stories have historical evidence to them

It has historical events that can be corroborated.

How truthful any of the claims made is another matter, but there is historicity within the bible

by Guest Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:20 am

Didge wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
Exactly the bible is like a compendium of moral lessons told in story form taught 2000 years + ago
Like the brothers Grimm ,Hans Christian Anderson ect of their age
Or the movie`s made by Marvel,Warner brothers,20th century Fox ect
story`s with underlying moral messages

but they are just story`s

Some of the stories have historical evidence to them

It has historical events that can be corroborated.

How truthful any of the claims made is another matter, but there is historicity within the bible

All the best story`s have "Some" basis in truth that`s what helps make them believable and relate-able but they are story`s never the less

by Guest Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:56 am

aspca4ever wrote:And given the recent media attention given to the Muslim refugee's it behooves all of us to be better informed and educate ourselves to the TRUE faith that these people follow instead of their own version of the EXTEMIST {nut jobs} that are garnering so very much of our media/news attention & time.
All of these faith based named religions have far more specific items in common then they do that separate them --- but it's the ignorance that breeds the hate that is compiling so many to turn against the Muslims; fear and hate...such a double edged sword. IMHO

StarDust---this is the 2nd post that I expressed the same idea; but correct me if I've remembered the sequence wrong....but I thought the teachings of Confucius predated all the written scrolled items that later became what we read as the Karon &/or the bible.

BTW---did you catch that PBS special on Muhammad ...it was fantastic and so much of his TRUE FAITH values run in the exact same ideology as the BIBLE. But mankind doesn't chose to read & she how his thinking and ideology evolved over time. PLEASE EXCUSE MY TYPING ERRORS...trying to use my little tablet--- The God of Chaos 1284863816

by veya_victaous Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:29 am

Confucius is late in China about 500BC
Taoism is so old to date from Oral tradition, it was the existing 'peasent faith' when Buddhism and Confucism came to China.

http://www.ancient.eu/Lao-Tzu/
http://www.patheos.com/Library/Taoism/Origins/Founders

in 100BC Confucius scholars created a story of Confucius meeting an 'Old master' that it implies to be the creator of Taoism, but in reality it seems older and there is no record of that person until then, Most modern scholars believe that there is no founder of Taoism and rather it is the natural evolution of the 'Chinese pagan peasant'

According to Szuma’s narrative, Confucius was so impressed by the old master that he could only compare him to a great, mythical dragon and took his advice to heart, concentrating more on his inner wealth than outward displays of affluence and dedicating himself to philosophy. The story is considered fictional but exemplifies the high esteem with which Lao-Tzu was accorded, whether an actual or fictional figure, in that he is shown to have influenced the greatest of the philosophers of China.

But the Abrahamist stuff is all young in comparison to the East.

by Guest Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:44 am

veya_victaous wrote:Confucius is late in China about 500BC
Taoism is so old to date from Oral tradition, it was the existing 'peasent faith' when Buddhism and Confucism came to China.

http://www.ancient.eu/Lao-Tzu/
http://www.patheos.com/Library/Taoism/Origins/Founders

in 100BC Confucius scholars created a story of Confucius meeting an 'Old master' that it implies to be the creator of Taoism, but in reality it seems older and there is no record of that person until then, Most modern scholars believe that there is no founder of Taoism and rather it is the natural evolution of the 'Chinese pagan peasant'

According to Szuma’s narrative, Confucius was so impressed by the old master that he could only compare him to a great, mythical dragon and took his advice to heart, concentrating more on his inner wealth than outward displays of affluence and dedicating himself to philosophy. The story is considered fictional but exemplifies the high esteem with which Lao-Tzu was accorded, whether an actual or fictional figure, in that he is shown to have influenced the greatest of the philosophers of China.

But the Abrahamist stuff is all young in comparison to the East.

INDEED...such fascinating reading but it's been more than 10 yrs and I've forgotten lots but it's always worth pick reference books up and just perusing through old religious texts books --- I find it very calming as well.

Sadly, as with my ½ breed grandfathers shaman & history --- they are all oral stories passed down from generation to generation and if the story teller falls ill or has zero audience left to tell those stories --- 'DANG' there goes another link to the past that just wasn't captured.

by veya_victaous Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:08 am

@aspca

and Thus Why I have adopted the Aboriginal's Gods into my personal pantheon.

I am interested in being their audience.

by Guest Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:11 am

korban dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:

Some of the stories have historical evidence to them

It has historical events that can be corroborated.

How truthful any of the claims made is another matter, but there is historicity within the bible
All the best story`s have "Some" basis in truth that`s what helps make them believable and relate-able but they are story`s never the less

But its being able to find fact from fiction and there is plenty of real historical characters in the bible and real historical events.

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