Should The Breeding/Importing Of These Type Of Dogs Be Banned

Ban the bleeding lot, sick of reading about the rubbish

The Staffordshire Bull Terrier? For shame, Stormee. They get some bad press but no dog breed is inherently vicious -- all dogs evolved to bond with humans, and you have to do really bad things to them to make them violent.

In fact, the info on Staffords says they actually make pretty poor guard dogs because they tend to make friends with everyone they meet.

Some breeds of dogs are banned or have to be muzzled in the UK on the grounds that they're likely to be a vicious breed though.

I don't know if some breeds are intrinsically more dangerous than others, but I would say that the larger the dog, the more likely it can cause damage. Small dogs can be vicious too, and obviously if they attacked a small child they'll do more damage than if they attack an adult.

Yeah, but check this out:

A TEACHER from the Bradford district has spoken up in defence of a breed of dog which she says is being unfairly portrayed in the media.

Eleanor Marsden, of Oakworth, who along with her 34-year-old partner Ed Waterhouse owns a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, said this type of dog was being blamed for violent behaviour even in cases where the breed has had no involvement in the incident.

She urged people considering taking on a dog to give this breed a chance.

"Why would anyone bother to get to know a Staffy, let alone think about owning one, when all they see in the media is how aggressive they are?" she asked.

"It’s a vicious cycle and certainly doesn’t help the cause of all those thousands of Staffordshire Bull Terriers who need re-homing.

"You only have to look at charities such as the RSPCA to see the sheer volume who need a loving, caring home.

"As an owner of a three-year-old rescue Staffy, Bonnie, I experience nothing but love, loyalty and care from her on a daily basis."

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/local/keighleynews/14237437.Teacher_speaks_up_in_defence_of_Staffordshire_Bull_Terriers_after_fostering__sweet__bubbly_and_affectionate__pet/

I had to laugh. It seems Stormee wants to ban any living thing once a few members of the group turn out to be dangerous ... it really is "only a few"

Ben_Reilly wrote:Yeah, but check this out:

A TEACHER from the Bradford district has spoken up in defence of a breed of dog which she says is being unfairly portrayed in the media.

Eleanor Marsden, of Oakworth, who along with her 34-year-old partner Ed Waterhouse owns a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, said this type of dog was being blamed for violent behaviour even in cases where the breed has had no involvement in the incident.

She urged people considering taking on a dog to give this breed a chance.

"Why would anyone bother to get to know a Staffy, let alone think about owning one, when all they see in the media is how aggressive they are?" she asked.

"It’s a vicious cycle and certainly doesn’t help the cause of all those thousands of Staffordshire Bull Terriers who need re-homing.

"You only have to look at charities such as the RSPCA to see the sheer volume who need a loving, caring home.

"As an owner of a three-year-old rescue Staffy, Bonnie, I experience nothing but love, loyalty and care from her on a daily basis."

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/local/keighleynews/14237437.Teacher_speaks_up_in_defence_of_Staffordshire_Bull_Terriers_after_fostering__sweet__bubbly_and_affectionate__pet/

I had to laugh. It seems Stormee wants to ban any living thing once a few members of the group turn out to be dangerous ... it really is "only a few"

Stormee might have thought it was a pit bull terrier, which are banned. There are four breeds which are banned in the UK.


Pit Bull Terrier
Japanese Tosa
Dogo Argentino
Fila Brasileiro

Tbh, I wouldn't know those dogs if I fell over them.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Yeah, but check this out:



http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/local/keighleynews/14237437.Teacher_speaks_up_in_defence_of_Staffordshire_Bull_Terriers_after_fostering__sweet__bubbly_and_affectionate__pet/

I had to laugh. It seems Stormee wants to ban any living thing once a few members of the group turn out to be dangerous ... it really is "only a few"

Stormee might have thought it was a pit bull terrier, which are banned. There are four breeds which are banned in the UK.


Pit Bull Terrier
Japanese Tosa
Dogo Argentino
Fila Brasileiro

Tbh, I wouldn't know those dogs if I fell over them.

They are often easily identified by the swaggering morons who are attached to their leads.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Stormee might have thought it was a pit bull terrier, which are banned. There are four breeds which are banned in the UK.


Pit Bull Terrier
Japanese Tosa
Dogo Argentino
Fila Brasileiro

Tbh, I wouldn't know those dogs if I fell over them.

They are often easily identified by the swaggering morons who are attached to their leads.

I'll have a look on Google in a bit.

exactly Syl.......

saw one with a lead that said "there is an idiot on one end of this lead" and it most certainly wasnt the dog...

have a

Lord Foul wrote:exactly Syl.......

saw one with a lead that said "there is an idiot on one end of this lead"    and it most certainly wasnt the dog...

have a

Cheers.

Walking in a village recently, some ignorant oaf sat outside a pub, had one of these pit bull type dogs sat sprawled across the narrow pavement, everyone who passed had to step into the road, there was plenty room under the table to accommodate the dog.

I think the dogs would be fine with responsible caring owners, but left in the hands of these fools what chance do they have?

I have raised and trained dogs from chihuahua's to GSD,s

only ever had one "intractable" dog...and the military had that one.....last I heard it was guarding an air base....

What is the point having ugly vicious dog who will eat your children given the chance.

I was brought up with an English bull terrier (Trixie) who guarded me at night.
Not sure how responsible that would be seen as nowadays, but she 'protected' me at night by laying beside my cot.

Any dog can bite if provoked...nowadays I would not leave a small child alone with a dog, even a pet.

Syl wrote:I was brought up with an English bull terrier (Trixie) who guarded me at night.
Not sure how responsible that would be seen as nowadays, but she 'protected' me at night by laying beside my cot.

Any dog can bite if provoked...nowadays I would not leave a small child alone with a dog, even a pet.

I always think those look a bit vicious but apparently they're not.

What I will say is that people who are frail, weak, or small should not own large dogs because they're less likely to be able to control them if they go off on one. Stick to small dogs.

I once saw a poor lady who was terrified because her small dog was being threatened by a large doberman.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:I was brought up with an English bull terrier (Trixie) who guarded me at night.
Not sure how responsible that would be seen as nowadays, but she 'protected' me at night by laying beside my cot.

Any dog can bite if provoked...nowadays I would not leave a small child alone with a dog, even a pet.

I always think those look a bit vicious but apparently they're not.

Trixie was with outsiders...she chased the window cleaner up his ladder once and he had to be rescued.

the point is Stormee, they are not inherently viscious

they can do enourmous damage...have you seen the SIZE of that gob???

but if properly socialised and controlled they are fine....

however, the qualifier IS.....they are also inherently untrustworthy...yes they can "suddenly turn" (bit like didge I suppose) and as such they are NOT really fit for households with children...not of course that you should trust ANY dog with children unsupervised........

my own view is, given the above they should as a breed be allowed to die out ..anything with "bull" in its name was originally bred for one thing only...fighting and its "in the blood"

same as springers were bred for hunt retrieve....

as anyone with a springer will tell you thats all they want to do from day one...they are nutters at it...

but, becasue that is what they want to do, they can easily be trained NOT to hurt anything they find/flush, but to find it and then sit tight....in fact thats what they are SUPPOSED to do..."drop on flush"

so if the accidently "find" next doors cat they dont chase it...and it doesnt take long for the cat to figure that out either......so they end up 1 yard apart staring at each other....

I do think that 99 percent of dog attacks are probably the human's fault. Everyone should be taught by their parents how to behave around dogs, and that they will often defend themselves if they think they're being threatened.

For example, before I was ever allowed to meet a dog, my dad taught me to approach an unfamiliar dog slowly, with one hand slightly extended, palm up, offering it gently toward their nose for them to sniff you.

Ben_Reilly wrote:I do think that 99 percent of dog attacks are probably the human's fault. Everyone should be taught by their parents how to behave around dogs, and that they will often defend themselves if they think they're being threatened.

Obviously, people should be taught not to mistreat dogs, but the onus is not on anyone to know why a dog might "feel" threatened. It's up to the owner to control the dog at all times.

I disagree Ragga...


Obviously a dog should always be under control, but dog owners have a right to expect perople to use their sense.

my dogs are all "child friendly" and taught for instance NOT to react to a sudden hug...in fact they love being hugged...

but i think I have a right to expect people to take the time to train their brats NOT to suddenly come up and hug my dogs without warning...thye dont...which is why mine are conditioned to accept it, but....I take the time to train my dogs...so please ...people, take the time to train your brats to ASK if they can approach my dogs...

btw...my dogs love kids...you do realise that kids come in all sorts of flavours and need washing........crisps, ice cream, chocolate, etc...lick lick slurp.....

Lord Foul wrote:I disagree Ragga...


Obviously a dog should always be under control, but dog owners have a right to expect perople to use their sense.

my dogs are all "child friendly" and taught for instance NOT to react to a sudden hug...in fact they love being hugged...

but i think I have a right to expect people to take the time to train their brats NOT to suddenly come up and hug my dogs without warning...thye dont...which is why mine are conditioned to accept it, but....I take the time to train my dogs...so please ...people, take the time to train your brats to ASK if they can approach my dogs...

btw...my dogs love kids...you do realise that kids come in all sorts of flavours and need washing........crisps, ice cream, chocolate, etc...lick lick slurp.....

I would include that kind of thing as mistreating a dog.

Obviously, a dog should be approached with caution at all times, but you can't expect people to know about "body language" and what might make a dog feel threatened. Also, if a dog is loose, you can't expect someone to know what to do if it suddenly runs at them.

Ben_Reilly wrote:The Staffordshire Bull Terrier? For shame, Stormee. They get some bad press but no dog breed is inherently vicious -- all dogs evolved to bond with humans, and you have to do really bad things to them to make them violent.

In fact, the info on Staffords says they actually make pretty poor guard dogs because they tend to make friends with everyone they meet.

Spot on

Raggamuffin wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:I disagree Ragga...


Obviously a dog should always be under control, but dog owners have a right to expect perople to use their sense.

my dogs are all "child friendly" and taught for instance NOT to react to a sudden hug...in fact they love being hugged...

but i think I have a right to expect people to take the time to train their brats NOT to suddenly come up and hug my dogs without warning...thye dont...which is why mine are conditioned to accept it, but....I take the time to train my dogs...so please ...people, take the time to train your brats to ASK if they can approach my dogs...

btw...my dogs love kids...you do realise that kids come in all sorts of flavours and need washing........crisps, ice cream, chocolate, etc...lick lick slurp.....

I would include that kind of thing as mistreating a dog.

Obviously, a dog should be approached with caution at all times, but you can't expect people to know about "body language" and what might make a dog feel threatened. Also, if a dog is loose, you can't expect someone to know what to do if it suddenly runs at them.

which is why mine are all trained to sit, instantly, on a single sharp whistle (from a particular whistle) or on the voice command "DOWN"

Lord Foul wrote:I disagree Ragga...


Obviously a dog should always be under control, but dog owners have a right to expect perople to use their sense.

my dogs are all "child friendly" and taught for instance NOT to react to a sudden hug...in fact they love being hugged...

but i think I have a right to expect people to take the time to train their brats NOT to suddenly come up and hug my dogs without warning...thye dont...which is why mine are conditioned to accept it, but....I take the time to train my dogs...so please ...people, take the time to train your brats to ASK if they can approach my dogs...

btw...my dogs love kids...you do realise that kids come in all sorts of flavours and need washing........crisps, ice cream, chocolate, etc...lick lick slurp.....

Vic my daughter is four and from a baby has always loved dogs. Loves them absolutely without prejudice to breed, size or colour lol

She's one of those kids that has no fear and would stick her hand in a dogs mouth to "count it's teeth"

I totally agree with your post! I have taught her that you NEVER approach a dog unless you ask the person holding the lead and you don't approach one off the leas either.
If they're in their beds LEAVE THEM ALONE
Treat them gently and don't pull or tug or count teeth!
She has learned this since the age of one and she now understands.

We are in the process of rehoming a retired greyhound and I've told her that it's likely to be shy, nervous and a little scared when it comes home with us.

Dogs, in the main, are not inherently bad, it's people's stupidly, normally, when it comes to animals.

Lord Foul wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I would include that kind of thing as mistreating a dog.

Obviously, a dog should be approached with caution at all times, but you can't expect people to know about "body language" and what might make a dog feel threatened. Also, if a dog is loose, you can't expect someone to know what to do if it suddenly runs at them.

which is why mine are all trained to sit, instantly, on a single sharp whistle (from a particular whistle) or on the voice command "DOWN"

Good. Sadly, a lot of people let their dogs run wild. Of course, sometimes they escape - I've run around trying to catch a stray dog before now.

some years back, I had a beautiful GSD from the RAF shadowsquad bloodline, intelligent ans oh so tractable...
trained up a treat as personal protection dog...

we were at a flower show, me an the missus, and I was talking to a stall holder, ...suddenly he looked horrified, but I couldnt see why, then felt a slight pull on the dogs lead.... looked down to find a 5 YO lass hanging round her neck..hugging her. All the softy dog did was lick and gently nuzzle the kid .

now that was OK..sort of...I mean. as i say my dogs are trained for just that eventuality...BUT...when I suggested politely to her father...and I do mean politely, that perhaps HE should also teach his kid to ask first as not ALL dogs are that good with kids....I got a mouthfull of abuse and 4 letter words...

it was lucky that firstly the dog was with me (cos if I had gone for him, so would she, as a protection dog)
and that the missus was with me


or I'd have decked him...kid or no kid.....

ass hat....

eddie wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:I disagree Ragga...


Obviously a dog should always be under control, but dog owners have a right to expect perople to use their sense.

my dogs are all "child friendly" and taught for instance NOT to react to a sudden hug...in fact they love being hugged...

but i think I have a right to expect people to take the time to train their brats NOT to suddenly come up and hug my dogs without warning...thye dont...which is why mine are conditioned to accept it, but....I take the time to train my dogs...so please ...people, take the time to train your brats to ASK if they can approach my dogs...

btw...my dogs love kids...you do realise that kids come in all sorts of flavours and need washing........crisps, ice cream, chocolate, etc...lick lick slurp.....

Vic my daughter is four and from a baby has always loved dogs. Loves them absolutely without prejudice to breed, size or colour lol

She's one of those kids that has no fear and would stick her hand in a dogs mouth to "count it's teeth"

I totally agree with your post! I have taught her that you NEVER approach a dog unless you ask the person holding the lead and you don't approach one off the leas either.
If they're in their beds LEAVE THEM ALONE
Treat them gently and don't pull or tug or count teeth!
She has learned this since the age of one and she now understands.

We are in the process of rehoming a retired greyhound and I've told her that it's likely to be shy, nervous and a little scared when it comes home with us.

Dogs, in the main, are not inherently bad, it's people's stupidly, normally, when it comes to animals.

Woof!

were all "barkin"

Lord Foul wrote:were all "barkin"

Thought you had mad cows disease

no, only women (and didge) suffer from PMS

Lord Foul wrote:exactly Syl.......

saw one with a lead that said "there is an idiot on one end of this lead"    and it most certainly wasnt the dog...

have a

What makes me laugh is the Cammell Laird anchor chain used for a lead.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:exactly Syl.......

saw one with a lead that said "there is an idiot on one end of this lead"    and it most certainly wasnt the dog...

have a

What makes me laugh is the Cammell Laird anchor chain used for a lead.

that gave me a chuckle there HT......

Stormee wrote:What is the point having ugly vicious dog who will eat your children given the chance.

Not that you don't have a valid POV, Stormee; yet this breed used to be called the 'NANNY DOG' --- the soul purpose was to protect the carriage/pram that a baby or toddler would be moved around in --- they were very trust worthy for their families.

As with all things 'MALE species' oriented --- it wasn't until this breed started be used for bull-baiting in arena's and then too dog fighting for money & betting that the breed became a human hazard.

I've rescued my fair share of these unfortunate/abused/neglected dogs and I've got enough horror stories to fill a set of encyclopedia's a couple times over. Sadly the majority of any rescued Staffordshire/Pit Bull breed has to be 'Put Down' --- they just can't be retrained off of that Blood Lust for attacking anything that moves/shuffles/draws their attention: cats/other family pets/small children/elderly humans. Not the dog breed fault but it's a fact of life. If we toughened up the fines/jail time and kept repeat dog breeders from having licenses and places to keep their fighting stock --- well, perhaps the breed could return to their original useful purpose.

Humans have done this to the Staffordshire/Pit Bull Breed...not the other way around. I've warned other rescue places about trying to re-train some of their previous pit-bull fighting dogs...introductions into their own family circle; only to find out that a horrific disaster befell their family pets because the family left to run an errand and upon their return the blood bath that was left of their dear lovely 2 older dogs/fluffy little poodles/family cats --- were torn to shreds by their rescued pit-bulls left unattended.

Chances are play time got out of hand and the 'PACK LEADER' wasn't home to stop the blood bath and the family now mourns the method that they sacrificed their long term furry family members by introducing 2 aggressive UN-KNOWNS into that family nucleus! People ASSUME that because those rescued dogs behave in such a docile manner that they have forgotten their fighting/battle to the death previous training --- just stupid humans doing what stupid humans do so well.

But to ban the entire breed --- NO, I've been bitten/nailed in the ankle by far more tiny little fur balls then any large breed canines ---
I supported myself through college by selling trained Doberman Pinchers for guard dogs specifically; for other ranchers/farmers/livestock-rodeo show people for just protecting their equipment sheds/horse trailers and storage areas---they are not to become inside family pets.

eddie wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:The Staffordshire Bull Terrier? For shame, Stormee. They get some bad press but no dog breed is inherently vicious -- all dogs evolved to bond with humans, and you have to do really bad things to them to make them violent.

In fact, the info on Staffords says they actually make pretty poor guard dogs because they tend to make friends with everyone they meet.

Spot on

I presume  Staffies and Pit Bulls and any other breed originally  bred for fighting or baiting, have a larger bite and a tendency to hang on instead of bite and release, more than say, a lab or poodle.

There have been incidents in the UK involving Staffies. If someone thinks it's a Pit Bull "type" the dog can be seized, and the owner will have to prove that it's not.

Some of the incidents have involved Pit Bulls though, and it's a mystery why the owners had them in the first place as they're banned here, unless they're exempt for some reason.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-aged-43-found-mauled-3901977

Staffordshire/Bully Terriers/Bullies/Pit Bulls are notorious for their wide-grin like muzzle; similar to a bear trap that can lock onto a prey and with their scissor teeth pattern can hang onto their prey even while the prey is trying to flee.
What some breeders/owners don't know and don't follow up with is the disorder that this specific breed suffers from and it does cause serious behavior/mood swings and changes in temperament.

Health
Staffordshire Bull Terriers are known to suffer from Hereditary Cataracts (HC) and L-2-hydroxyglutaric aciduria (L2HGA)—a metabolic disorder resulting in behavioral changes and dementia-like symptoms—both of which are detectable via DNA tests.