Person of the year in the Syrian crisis: Israeli health care professionals

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:51 pm

This week saw Israel deliver vital medical services to Syrian patient number 200. Last month, a twenty-year-old Syrian refugee gave birth to a boy in the Rebecca Seiff Hospital in Safed, making the baby’s delivery the first Syrian refugee birth in an Israeli medical facility.

The biggest winner of 2013 was not one individual; rather a group of health care professionals in northern Israel from Ziv Medical Center in Safed and Sieff hospital who cared for wounded Syrians.

The endless misery unfolding in Syria has produced few moments of optimism.

A telling example is the pregnancy in Sieff hospital. Mira Eli, the nurse in charge of the maternity delivery ward at Sieff, described the care provided to the pregnant Syrian woman: “We gave her a hug, a shower and food. We gave her postnatal advice. She’s a very young woman who came without her husband or anyone else accompanying her, and it was her first delivery. Our job is to ensure that every new mother remembers her delivery as an unforgettable positive experience, whatever her ethnic, national or religious background.”

The young Syrian mother said, “I don’t feel like I am in an enemy country. The staff are all helping me and worrying about me. My baby, too, is getting wonderful, devoted care.”

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Person-of-the-year-in-the-Syrian-crisis-Israeli-health-care-professionals-336379

by Ben Reilly Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:47 pm

Awesome and well-deserved. It's through generosity like this that the divisions between people are made irrelevant, and a damn sight better than blowing one another up.

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:51 pm

Bloody good PR though, when they are letting Palestian mothers die by not allowing them through checkpoints to get to hospital, and stopping ambulances for hours at checkpoints, even when the Palestinians inside them has had a heart attack. Does their image the world of good, really well thought out. Hats off to their PR Department.

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:58 pm

Sassy wrote:Bloody good PR though, when they are letting Palestian mothers die by not allowing them through checkpoints to get to hospital, and stopping ambulances for hours at checkpoints, even when the Palestinians inside them has had a heart attack. Does their image the world of good, really well thought out. Hats off to their PR Department.

Unbelievable, this is about some individual medical staff out to help the victims, which has no bearing on the Government of Israel, so why do you have to turn every thread into bashing Israel when some medical staff here are doing wonders? Are you saying now these medical staff are complicit to any crimes Israel has done?

Why not recognise this for what it is, a story of some people helping some other caught in the cross fire of a civil war

by Ben Reilly Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:00 pm

Sassy does have a point, though. It's like when the U.S. invaded Iraq because "Saddam is a brutal dictator who oppresses his people." Well, the world is full of places like that; what makes Iraq so special?*

* It's the world's third-largest oil producer.

by Irn Bru Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:40 pm

Worthy recipients of the award and like all good health professionals they will treat everyone no matter their ethnic origins skin colour or whatever without question.
Just a pity that their government won't always allow free access to the Palestinians in Gaza or the occupied West bank to healthcare as well.

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:43 pm

Yep, they are great, wonder who decided to get the Syrian's there and why though.

by Irn Bru Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:50 pm

Sassy wrote:Yep, they are great, wonder who decided to get the Syrian's there and why though.

Just imagine the outcry if the woman had been brought to this country for her medical care.

by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:51 pm

Too true.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:27 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Sassy does have a point, though. It's like when the U.S. invaded Iraq because "Saddam is a brutal dictator who oppresses his people." Well, the world is full of places like that; what makes Iraq so special?*

* It's the world's third-largest oil producer.

Sorry but you are trying to compare different things all together her Ben, this is about some medical staff who are from Israel helping people and you ask what is so special about this, saving lives and any story that is about saving lives is special. To use the analogy of the Iraq war when there are many dictators is poor here, as what Sassy is saying is what about crimes committed in Israel and Israel has offered medial assistance to Palestine many times, only to be refused, another reason why more people die in the conflicts. They are as well reported too, so you are not allowed to print a story where good is done now on that bases? That is just plain silly and most of the claims from Sassy are biased misdirected bull when there are many other explanations, she just is gullible to always believing the terrorists of Hamas.

I mean look at all the responses, all with having to get their political view point in about Israel, when it should just be about the medical staff, that shows an inbuilt prejudice that people have against Israel and that you cannot praise the people for what they did, but are judged because of where they come from and that means an association of guilt is placed onto them. I mean lets face it if this had been Jordan or Turkey, nobody would have battered an eyelid and just praised them, mention Israel and its straight away with comments about their Government which has nothing to do with how these medical staff are helping refugees from Syria

by Irn Bru Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:55 pm

If the Israeli's want any brownie points from treating people who need medical help then they are going to do a lot better than their record shows.
The health professional's won't care who it is that needs the help and they will respond anyway but their government won't.

From the WHO

http://www.emro.who.int/palestine-press-releases/2013/who-launches-report-on-health-access-barriers-in-the-opt-5-march-2013.html

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:11 pm

And there you have it, guilt by association.
It does not matter what these medical staff did, lets hold them accountable for any wrongs done by others

Epic fail and thanks for proving my point Irn

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:13 pm

Part of it:

Jerusalem 5 March 2013 – The WHO occupied Palestinian territory office has released a report that details the difficulties that thousands of Palestinian patients encounter in obtaining Israeli permits to access specialized health care in East Jerusalem, Jordan and Israel. Restrictions also affect access for ambulances and health personnel from the West Bank to the East Jerusalem hospitals.

The study used available data from Palestinian Authority ministries and non-profit health providers to quantify and describe how Israeli movement restrictions in the West Bank and Gaza reduce access to health services for Palestinian patients and health providers, especially to East Jerusalem where the main Palestinian referral centres are located.

In the West Bank, one in five patients, companions and visitors who applied through the Palestinian Authority for Israeli permits to enter Jerusalem to access hospitals were denied. Data indicates that 81.4% of 175 228 applicants were approved in 2011 and 79.7% of 222 188 applicants in 2012. The remaining applicants were denied or did not receive a response in time for their medical appointment. Approval rates differed widely among districts. Data disaggregated from 3 of 15 districts in 2012 confirmed that the rate of permit approvals for patients-only was similar to the aggregate data: 82.5%.

Simply disgraceful and without compassion, especially when you consider that they stop Gaza, and the Gazan hospitals, from having electricity and they have to have 12 hours on and 12 hours off, if they are lucky.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:24 pm

Again ignoring what these medical staff have done and now trying to ignore their kindness by making political points, how pathetic, why not praise what they have done?#
If you cannot praise one must question if you hate Jews by posting that on this thread, why deflect from this story?

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:29 pm

Didge, perhaps you missed the bit where I said I was part Jewish? Why would I hate Jews? I oppose the Israeli government's policies, as do many Jewish people and I correspond with them to that effect. I have already said what the medical staff did was wonderful, but in order for them to be able to do it, the patient had to get to them. Many patients in just as much need are denied help if they are Palestinian, therefore, I happen to think that the Israeli government got this patient to the medical staff as a PR exercise.

by Irn Bru Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:32 pm

PhilDidge wrote:And there you have it, guilt by association.
It does not matter what these medical staff did, lets hold them accountable for any wrongs done by others

Epic fail and thanks for proving my point Irn

The health professionals are guilty of nothing and deserve their award and I said so so try not to twist things around.

Thank you.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:35 pm

Sassy wrote:Didge, perhaps you missed the bit where I said I was part Jewish? Why would I hate Jews? I oppose the Israeli government's policies, as do many Jewish people and I correspond with them to that effect. I have already said what the medical staff did was wonderful, but in order for them to be able to do it, the patient had to get to them. Many patients in just as much need are denied help if they are Palestinian, therefore, I happen to think that the Israeli government got this patient to the medical staff as a PR exercise.

://?roflmao?/:

I have lost count of how much part something you are, you whole arguments paint a poor stereotype based upon Israel.

This was just as story about some great people doing good, yet you brought into this claims of crimes done by the Israeli Government, why?

This thread should have been only about what they did, but you made it political

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:36 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:And there you have it, guilt by association.
It does not matter what these medical staff did, lets hold them accountable for any wrongs done by others

Epic fail and thanks for proving my point Irn

The health professionals are guilty of nothing and deserve their award and I said so so try not to twist things around.

Thank you.

Which is what this thread was about, so why bring other unrelated problems into this?

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:39 pm

My great grandfather on my father's side was Jewish, my great grandmother on my mother's side was Maltese, that is all I have ever said, and I was inspired by John Pilger to contact peace activists in Israel many years ago, and have been corresponding with them ever since.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:42 pm

Sassy wrote:My great grandfather on my father's side was Jewish, my great grandmother on my mother's side was Maltese, that is all I have ever said, and I was inspired by John Pilger to contact peace activists in Israel many years ago, and have been corresponding with them ever since.

Whoop dee doo that does not answer my question, why you would turn a story of compassion into a political aruyment

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:44 pm

Em, this after your comments on the man who killed himself thread?

by Irn Bru Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:46 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:

The health professionals are guilty of nothing and deserve their award and I said so so try not to twist things around.

Thank you.

Which is what this thread was about, so why bring other unrelated problems into this?

Healthcare for the population of the occupied territories is not in any way unrelated.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:47 pm

[quote="Irn Bru"]

PhilDidge wrote:

Which is what this thread was about, so why bring other unrelated problems into this?

Healthcare for the population of the occupied territories is not in any way unrelated.

[/quote

Too this topic, yes it is, it is about some medical people helping others

by Irn Bru Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:51 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:

Healthcare for the population of the occupied territories is not in any way unrelated.

[/quote

Too this topic, yes it is, it is about some medical people helping others

Correct and that's what isn't happening for so many in the occupied territories. So there's your relevance for you.

Anyway,,,,tea time.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:54 pm

Irn Bru wrote:

Correct and that's what isn't happening for so many in the occupied territories. So there's your relevance for you.

Anyway,,,,tea time.

There is no relevance here, you are bringing up issues which are unrelated to the people that are helping here, in fact what you are doing is associating them with the crimes of Israel, how fucking retarded is that, and in your case guilt by stupidity

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:55 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Correct and that's what isn't happening for so many in the occupied territories. So there's your relevance for you.

Anyway,,,,tea time.

And me, and definitely no custard or gloop lol

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:59 pm

Sassy wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:

Correct and that's what isn't happening for so many in the occupied territories. So there's your relevance for you.

Anyway,,,,tea time.

And me, and definitely no custard or gloop lol

But as seen you try to detract from the good work these medical staff had done by associating them with crimes of Israel.

There is no connection unless you associate hatred of Jews?

Do you hate Jews Stasi?

by Irn Bru Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:37 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:

Correct and that's what isn't happening for so many in the occupied territories. So there's your relevance for you.

Anyway,,,,tea time.

There is no relevance here, you are bringing up issues which are unrelated to the people that are helping here, in fact what you are doing is associating them with the crimes of Israel, how fucking retarded is that, and in your case guilt by stupidity

Of course it's relevant because it highlights that healthcare professionals care for all who need it and the Israeli government are selective in their choices.

The healthcare professionals do a wonderful job and deserve all the credit they get. The only thing that is retarded is the Israeli government who put up barriers to the Palestinians getting access to healthcare and those that in anyway try to say there is a difference and no relevance.

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:59 am

Irn Bru wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

There is no relevance here, you are bringing up issues which are unrelated to the people that are helping here, in fact what you are doing is associating them with the crimes of Israel, how fucking retarded is that, and in your case guilt by stupidity

Of course it's relevant because it highlights that healthcare professionals care for all who need it and the Israeli government are selective in their choices.

The healthcare professionals do a wonderful job and deserve all the credit they get. The only thing that is retarded is the Israeli government who put up barriers to the Palestinians getting access to healthcare and those that in anyway try to say there is a difference and no relevance.

Really?Is that your claim even though the Israeli governments has constantly offered medical assistance to Palestine only to be refused by them at times and yet Israel still helps, of which you neglect to say. It might help if you wee not so gullible to that left wing rag you read in the Guardian. Of course as per usual the left never tell the truth and distort the picture.

Again though what you offer is a poor excuse to try and down grade what these people have done because you poorly associate them with the Government of Israel, that is pathetic, and you only do this as you hate Israel.

According to a 2012 World Health Organization report, Israel approved 91.5 percent of Palestinian applications from Gaza to receive medical care in Israel proper, while an additional 7.2 percent were approved pending a security check. In total, 210,469 Palestinians received medical treatment inside Israel proper in 2012. This statistic includes 20 Palestinian children who were in need of marrow transplants, kidney transplants, and other life saving operations that the Palestinian Authority did not have the ability to perform.

Many democratic states don’t provide so much medical assistance to the civilian populations who are citizens of nations that they are in conflict with. For example, since 2011, USAID has only provided medical assistance for 180 Afghan patients, a tiny fraction of the tens of thousands of Afghans who were wounded during the fighting between the Taliban and NATO forces or by roadside bombs. Yet Israel has adopted a different approach, to value all human lives, including the lives of Palestinian civilians, despite the adversarial comments and actions taken by their leadership.

http://unitedwithisrael.org/israel-puts-conflict-aside-to-save-palestinian-lives/

by Irn Bru Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:10 am

PhilDidge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:

Of course it's relevant because it highlights that healthcare professionals care for all who need it and the Israeli government are selective in their choices.

The healthcare professionals do a wonderful job and deserve all the credit they get. The only thing that is retarded is the Israeli government who put up barriers to the Palestinians getting access to healthcare and those that in anyway try to say there is a difference and no relevance.

Really?Is that your claim even though the Israeli governments has constantly offered medical assistance to Palestine only to be refused by them at times and yet Israel still helps, of which you neglect to say. It might help if you wee not so gullible to that left wing rag you read in the Guardian. Of course as per usual the left never tell the truth and distort the picture.

Again though what you offer is a poor excuse to try and down grade what these people have done because you poorly associate them with the Government of Israel, that is pathetic, and you only do this as you hate Israel.

According to a 2012 World Health Organization report, Israel approved 91.5 percent of Palestinian applications from Gaza to receive medical care in Israel proper, while an additional 7.2 percent were approved pending a security check. In total, 210,469 Palestinians received medical treatment inside Israel proper in 2012. This statistic includes 20 Palestinian children who were in need of marrow transplants, kidney transplants, and other life saving operations that the Palestinian Authority did not have the ability to perform.

Many democratic states don’t provide so much medical assistance to the civilian populations who are citizens of nations that they are in conflict with. For example, since 2011, USAID has only provided medical assistance for 180 Afghan patients, a tiny fraction of the tens of thousands of Afghans who were wounded during the fighting between the Taliban and NATO forces or by roadside bombs. Yet Israel has adopted a different approach, to value all human lives, including the lives of Palestinian civilians, despite the adversarial comments and actions taken by their leadership.

http://unitedwithisrael.org/israel-puts-conflict-aside-to-save-palestinian-lives/

Oh dear - From an article titled; Israel Puts Conflict Aside To Save Palestinian Lives published in United with Israel. Are you a fully signed up member?

Honestly Didge, get serious and just accept that Israel has some serious issues in allowing healthcare to all who need it, when they need, not when they decide to issue permits.

WHO researchers also conducted interviews with patients, families and health personnel and found that permits are difficult to obtain, limit the mode and place of entry of patients, and are not always honored at designated checkpoints.

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:20 am

Irn Bru wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Really?Is that your claim even though the Israeli governments has constantly offered medical assistance to Palestine only to be refused by them at times and yet Israel still helps, of which you neglect to say. It might help if you wee not so gullible to that left wing rag you read in the Guardian. Of course as per usual the left never tell the truth and distort the picture.

Again though what you offer is a poor excuse to try and down grade what these people have done because you poorly associate them with the Government of Israel, that is pathetic, and you only do this as you hate Israel.

According to a 2012 World Health Organization report, Israel approved 91.5 percent of Palestinian applications from Gaza to receive medical care in Israel proper, while an additional 7.2 percent were approved pending a security check. In total, 210,469 Palestinians received medical treatment inside Israel proper in 2012. This statistic includes 20 Palestinian children who were in need of marrow transplants, kidney transplants, and other life saving operations that the Palestinian Authority did not have the ability to perform.

Many democratic states don’t provide so much medical assistance to the civilian populations who are citizens of nations that they are in conflict with. For example, since 2011, USAID has only provided medical assistance for 180 Afghan patients, a tiny fraction of the tens of thousands of Afghans who were wounded during the fighting between the Taliban and NATO forces or by roadside bombs. Yet Israel has adopted a different approach, to value all human lives, including the lives of Palestinian civilians, despite the adversarial comments and actions taken by their leadership.

http://unitedwithisrael.org/israel-puts-conflict-aside-to-save-palestinian-lives/

Oh dear - From an article titled; Israel Puts Conflict Aside To Save Palestinian Lives published in United with Israel. Are you a fully signed up member?

Honestly Didge, get serious and just accept that Israel has some serious issues in allowing healthcare to all who need it, when they need, not when they decide to issue permits.

WHO researchers also conducted interviews with patients, families and health personnel and found that permits are difficult to obtain, limit the mode and place of entry of patients, and are not always honored at designated checkpoints.

Hilarious, so you are saying the World health organisation is wrong and we have to buy instead the garbage you read in the Guardian, yeah right that works, not.

So yes I am serious, you are on some campaign of hate and back terrorists in Hamas, it does not get any dafter than that really

by Irn Bru Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:24 am

PhilDidge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:

Oh dear - From an article titled; Israel Puts Conflict Aside To Save Palestinian Lives published in United with Israel. Are you a fully signed up member?

Honestly Didge, get serious and just accept that Israel has some serious issues in allowing healthcare to all who need it, when they need, not when they decide to issue permits.

WHO researchers also conducted interviews with patients, families and health personnel and found that permits are difficult to obtain, limit the mode and place of entry of patients, and are not always honored at designated checkpoints.

Hilarious, so you are saying the World health organisation is wrong and we have to buy instead the garbage you read in the Guardian, yeah right that works, not.

So yes I am serious, you are on some campaign of hate and back terrorists in Hamas, it does not get any dafter than that really

Oh hello Didge. Have you been maintaining a vigil awaiting my arrival lol

The WHO are correct in their appraisal of the situation in Israel in respect of Barriers to healthcare. Not that easy for may to get it is it?

The Guardian old chap isn't something I use that often. Have I used it here?

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:27 am

Vigil ????

Hardly, is that all you can come up with when you get your arse battered in a debate.

The guardian is your bible, plus you neglect the fact that the Palestinians have turned down help from the Israeli's on countless occasions

But this you quietly ignore, being as you support terrorism in Hamas

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:31 am

MYTH

“Israeli checkpoints prevent Palestinians from receiving medical attention.”

FACT

Israel has instituted checkpoints for one reason—to prevent Palestinian terrorists from infiltrating Israel. If thePalestinian Authority was fulfilling its Road Map obligations to dismantle the terrorist networks and disarm the terrorists, and its security forces were taking adequate measures to prevent Palestinians from planning and launching attacks, the checkpoints would be dismantled.
Israel tries to balance its security concerns with the welfare of the Palestinians, and is especially sensitive to the medical needs of Palestinians. According to IDF guidelines, any Palestinian in need of urgent medical care is allowed passage through checkpoints. The severity of the medical condition is determined by the checkpoint commander, who is to make decisions in favor of the Palestinian if there is any doubt. Palestinians are also allowed to enter Israel for routine medical care unless there is a security problem. Even then, Palestinians can appeal decisions and are also offered other options, such as transfer to neighboring states.
Ambulances are still stopped and searched at Israeli checkpoints because they have frequently been used as a means to transport terrorist bombs, and many of the murderers who have triggered suicide bombings in Israel gained access by driving or riding in Red Crescent ambulances. For example:

In October 2001, Nidal Nazal, a Hamas operative in Kalkilya, was arrested by the IDF. He was an ambulance driver for the Palestinian Red Crescent who served as a messenger between the Hamas headquarters in several West Bank towns. ⁵³
In January 2002, Wafa Idris blew herself up on the crowded Jaffa Street in Jerusalem, becoming one of the first female suicide bombers. She was an ambulance driver for the Palestinian Red Crescent, as was Mohammed Hababa, the Tanzim operative who sent her on her mission. She left the West Bank by way of an ambulance. ⁵⁴
On March 27, 2002, a Tanzim member who worked as a Red Crescent ambulance driver was captured with explosives in his ambulance. A child disguised as a patient was riding in the ambulance along with the child’s family. The explosives were found under the stretcher the “sick” child was laying on. ⁵⁵
On May 17, 2002, an explosive belt was found in a Red Crescent ambulance at a checkpoint near Ramallah. The bomb, the same type generally use in suicide bombings, was hidden under a gurney on which a sick child was lying. The driver, Islam Jibril, was already wanted by the IDF, and admitted that this was not the first time that an ambulance had been used to transport explosives or terrorists. In a statement issued the same day, the International Committee of the Red Cross said that it “understands the security concerns of the Israeli authorities, and has always acknowledged their right to check ambulances, provided it does not unduly delay medical evacuations.” The sick passengers in the ambulance were escorted by soldiers to a nearby hospital. ⁵⁶
On June 30, 2002, Israeli troops found 10 suspected Palestinian terrorists hiding in two ambulances in Ramallah. They were caught when soldiers stopped the vehicles for routine checks. ⁵⁷
In December 2003, Rashed Tarek al-Nimr, who worked as a chemist in hospitals in Nablus and Bethlehem, supplied chemicals from the hospitals to Hamas for use in making bombs and admitted he used ambulances to transport the chemicals. He also said the Hamas commanders would hide in hospitals to avoid arrest. ⁵⁸
In December 2004, a Hamas agent with forged documents claiming that he was a cancer patient in need of medical treatment from an Israeli hospital was arrested by security forces. Hamed A-Karim Hamed Abu Lihiya was to meet up with another terrorist, obtain weapons from allies inside Israel, and carry out an attack. That same month, a man recruited by the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade to plant a bomb on the railway tracks nearNetanya tried to use false papers indicating he needed hospital treatment to enter Israel. Another Hamasterrorist planning a suicide bombing was arrested in March 2005 after pretending to be a kidney donor. ⁵⁹

“Israeli hospitals extend humanitarian treatment to Palestinians from the Gaza Strip and West Bank. These efforts continued when all other cooperation between Palestinians and Israelis came to a halt during the most recent intifada.”
— Palestinian obstetrician and gynecologist Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish ⁶⁰
On June 20, 2005, Wafa Samir Ibrahim Bas was arrested attempting to smuggle an explosives belt through the Erez crossing. Bas aroused the suspicion of soldiers at the checkpoint when a biometric scanner revealed she was hiding explosives. When she realized they had discovered the explosive belt, she attempted unsuccessfully to detonate it. ⁶¹
Bas had been admitted on humanitarian grounds to Soroka Medical Center in Be’er Sheva several months earlier for treatment of massive burns she received as a result of a cooking accident. After her arrest, she admitted that theFatah al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade had instructed her to use her personal medical authorization documents to enter into Israel to carry out a suicide attack. In an interview shown on Israeli television, Bas said her “dream was to be a martyr” and that her intent was to kill 40 or 50 people—as many young people as possible.
Interesting Facts
Since its founding in 1996, Save a Child’s Heart, an Israeli humanitarian group that treats children suffering from heart problems, has treated more than 900 children from Gaza. ⁶²
Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish, a Palestinian obstetrician and gynecologist from the Jabalya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip, who has worked at the Soroka Hospital, wrote that he was “outraged at the cynical and potentially deadly suicide bombing attempt.” Dr. Abuelaish said he does research at the hospital’s Genetic Institute and has warm relations with his colleagues. “I make a point, whenever I’m at the hospital, of visiting Palestinian patients,” he said. “I also schedule appointments for other Gaza residents, and even bring medication from Soroka to needy patients in the Strip. . . . On the very day that she planned to detonate her bomb, two Palestinians in critical condition were waiting in Gaza to be taken for urgent treatment at Soroka.”
Dr. Abuelaish added, “Wafa was sent to kill the very people in Israel who are healing Palestinians from the Gaza Strip and West Bank. What if Israeli hospitals now decide to bar Palestinians seeking treatment? How would those who sent Bas feel if their own relatives, in need of medical care in Israel, are refused treatment?” ⁶³
By using this tactic, the Palestinians have reinforced the necessity of retaining the checkpoints and forced Israel to carry out more stringent inspections, yet another example of how terrorists are making life unnecessarily difficult for innocent Palestinians.
Despite a number of other cases where Palestinian terrorists tried to take advantage of the “medical route” to infiltrate Israel, more than 18,000 Palestinians from Gaza, and 175,000 from the West Bank, were allowed to travel to hospitals in Israel in 2010 to receive treatment from some of the finest medical facilities in the world. This includes approximately 7,500 children. Many of these patients receive life-saving treatments that are not available in the Palestinian territories. ⁶⁴
Case Study
Picture a 19-year-old soldier commanding a checkpoint when an ambulance arrives. Inside is a woman who is seemingly pregnant and who appears to be in pain; her husband is also highly anxious.
But the soldier has been warned about an ambulance bearing a pregnant woman who is not really pregnant. The intelligence said that underneath an ambulance's stretcher a wanted terrorist is hiding with an explosive belt for a suicide attack.
It is a hot day and there is a long line of cars. His commanders are yelling at him on the two-way radio, “Do not let ambulances without being thoroughly checked, there may very well be terrorists inside!” To complicate the picture, a news video crew is present.

The soldier has to make an incredible number of decisions in a very short time. He is only 19 and has no medical training. He knows that if he lets the ambulance go through and it contains a terrorist, then innocent people will die and he will have failed in his mission. On the other hand, if there is not a terrorist in this particular ambulance, and he delays a truly pregnant woman from reaching a hospital, the lives of the mother and baby could be endangered.
What would you do?

by Irn Bru Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:32 am

PhilDidge wrote:Vigil ????

Hardly, is that all you can come up with when you get your arse battered in a debate.

The guardian is your bible, plus you neglect the fact that the Palestinians have turned down help from the Israeli's on countless occasions

But this you quietly ignore, being as you support terrorism in Hamas

Now you are just making things up. I have never supported terrorism.

Massive fail

by Irn Bru Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:33 am

PhilDidge wrote:
MYTH
“Israeli checkpoints prevent Palestinians from receiving medical attention.”
FACT
Israel has instituted checkpoints for one reason—to prevent Palestinian terrorists from infiltrating Israel. If thePalestinian Authority was fulfilling its Road Map obligations to dismantle the terrorist networks and disarm the terrorists, and its security forces were taking adequate measures to prevent Palestinians from planning and launching attacks, the checkpoints would be dismantled.
Israel tries to balance its security concerns with the welfare of the Palestinians, and is especially sensitive to the medical needs of Palestinians. According to IDF guidelines, any Palestinian in need of urgent medical care is allowed passage through checkpoints. The severity of the medical condition is determined by the checkpoint commander, who is to make decisions in favor of the Palestinian if there is any doubt. Palestinians are also allowed to enter Israel for routine medical care unless there is a security problem. Even then, Palestinians can appeal decisions and are also offered other options, such as transfer to neighboring states.
Ambulances are still stopped and searched at Israeli checkpoints because they have frequently been used as a means to transport terrorist bombs, and many of the murderers who have triggered suicide bombings in Israel gained access by driving or riding in Red Crescent ambulances. For example:

In October 2001, Nidal Nazal, a Hamas operative in Kalkilya, was arrested by the IDF. He was an ambulance driver for the Palestinian Red Crescent who served as a messenger between the Hamas headquarters in several West Bank towns. ⁵³
In January 2002, Wafa Idris blew herself up on the crowded Jaffa Street in Jerusalem, becoming one of the first female suicide bombers. She was an ambulance driver for the Palestinian Red Crescent, as was Mohammed Hababa, the Tanzim operative who sent her on her mission. She left the West Bank by way of an ambulance. ⁵⁴
On March 27, 2002, a Tanzim member who worked as a Red Crescent ambulance driver was captured with explosives in his ambulance. A child disguised as a patient was riding in the ambulance along with the child’s family. The explosives were found under the stretcher the “sick” child was laying on. ⁵⁵
On May 17, 2002, an explosive belt was found in a Red Crescent ambulance at a checkpoint near Ramallah. The bomb, the same type generally use in suicide bombings, was hidden under a gurney on which a sick child was lying. The driver, Islam Jibril, was already wanted by the IDF, and admitted that this was not the first time that an ambulance had been used to transport explosives or terrorists. In a statement issued the same day, the International Committee of the Red Cross said that it “understands the security concerns of the Israeli authorities, and has always acknowledged their right to check ambulances, provided it does not unduly delay medical evacuations.” The sick passengers in the ambulance were escorted by soldiers to a nearby hospital. ⁵⁶
On June 30, 2002, Israeli troops found 10 suspected Palestinian terrorists hiding in two ambulances in Ramallah. They were caught when soldiers stopped the vehicles for routine checks. ⁵⁷
In December 2003, Rashed Tarek al-Nimr, who worked as a chemist in hospitals in Nablus and Bethlehem, supplied chemicals from the hospitals to Hamas for use in making bombs and admitted he used ambulances to transport the chemicals. He also said the Hamas commanders would hide in hospitals to avoid arrest. ⁵⁸
In December 2004, a Hamas agent with forged documents claiming that he was a cancer patient in need of medical treatment from an Israeli hospital was arrested by security forces. Hamed A-Karim Hamed Abu Lihiya was to meet up with another terrorist, obtain weapons from allies inside Israel, and carry out an attack. That same month, a man recruited by the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade to plant a bomb on the railway tracks nearNetanya tried to use false papers indicating he needed hospital treatment to enter Israel. Another Hamasterrorist planning a suicide bombing was arrested in March 2005 after pretending to be a kidney donor. ⁵⁹

“Israeli hospitals extend humanitarian treatment to Palestinians from the Gaza Strip and West Bank. These efforts continued when all other cooperation between Palestinians and Israelis came to a halt during the most recent intifada.”
— Palestinian obstetrician and gynecologist Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish ⁶⁰
On June 20, 2005, Wafa Samir Ibrahim Bas was arrested attempting to smuggle an explosives belt through the Erez crossing. Bas aroused the suspicion of soldiers at the checkpoint when a biometric scanner revealed she was hiding explosives. When she realized they had discovered the explosive belt, she attempted unsuccessfully to detonate it. ⁶¹
Bas had been admitted on humanitarian grounds to Soroka Medical Center in Be’er Sheva several months earlier for treatment of massive burns she received as a result of a cooking accident. After her arrest, she admitted that theFatah al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade had instructed her to use her personal medical authorization documents to enter into Israel to carry out a suicide attack. In an interview shown on Israeli television, Bas said her “dream was to be a martyr” and that her intent was to kill 40 or 50 people—as many young people as possible.
Interesting Facts
Since its founding in 1996, Save a Child’s Heart, an Israeli humanitarian group that treats children suffering from heart problems, has treated more than 900 children from Gaza. ⁶²
Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish, a Palestinian obstetrician and gynecologist from the Jabalya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip, who has worked at the Soroka Hospital, wrote that he was “outraged at the cynical and potentially deadly suicide bombing attempt.” Dr. Abuelaish said he does research at the hospital’s Genetic Institute and has warm relations with his colleagues. “I make a point, whenever I’m at the hospital, of visiting Palestinian patients,” he said. “I also schedule appointments for other Gaza residents, and even bring medication from Soroka to needy patients in the Strip. . . . On the very day that she planned to detonate her bomb, two Palestinians in critical condition were waiting in Gaza to be taken for urgent treatment at Soroka.”
Dr. Abuelaish added, “Wafa was sent to kill the very people in Israel who are healing Palestinians from the Gaza Strip and West Bank. What if Israeli hospitals now decide to bar Palestinians seeking treatment? How would those who sent Bas feel if their own relatives, in need of medical care in Israel, are refused treatment?” ⁶³
By using this tactic, the Palestinians have reinforced the necessity of retaining the checkpoints and forced Israel to carry out more stringent inspections, yet another example of how terrorists are making life unnecessarily difficult for innocent Palestinians.
Despite a number of other cases where Palestinian terrorists tried to take advantage of the “medical route” to infiltrate Israel, more than 18,000 Palestinians from Gaza, and 175,000 from the West Bank, were allowed to travel to hospitals in Israel in 2010 to receive treatment from some of the finest medical facilities in the world. This includes approximately 7,500 children. Many of these patients receive life-saving treatments that are not available in the Palestinian territories. ⁶⁴
Case Study
Picture a 19-year-old soldier commanding a checkpoint when an ambulance arrives. Inside is a woman who is seemingly pregnant and who appears to be in pain; her husband is also highly anxious.
But the soldier has been warned about an ambulance bearing a pregnant woman who is not really pregnant. The intelligence said that underneath an ambulance's stretcher a wanted terrorist is hiding with an explosive belt for a suicide attack.
It is a hot day and there is a long line of cars. His commanders are yelling at him on the two-way radio, “Do not let ambulances without being thoroughly checked, there may very well be terrorists inside!” To complicate the picture, a news video crew is present.

The soldier has to make an incredible number of decisions in a very short time. He is only 19 and has no medical training. He knows that if he lets the ambulance go through and it contains a terrorist, then innocent people will die and he will have failed in his mission. On the other hand, if there is not a terrorist in this particular ambulance, and he delays a truly pregnant woman from reaching a hospital, the lives of the mother and baby could be endangered.
What would you do?

Source please

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:33 am

You support Hamas do you not, plus read again

MYTH

“Israeli checkpoints prevent Palestinians from receiving medical attention.”

FACT

Israel has instituted checkpoints for one reason—to prevent Palestinian terrorists from infiltrating Israel. If thePalestinian Authority was fulfilling its Road Map obligations to dismantle the terrorist networks and disarm the terrorists, and its security forces were taking adequate measures to prevent Palestinians from planning and launching attacks, the checkpoints would be dismantled.
Israel tries to balance its security concerns with the welfare of the Palestinians, and is especially sensitive to the medical needs of Palestinians. According to IDF guidelines, any Palestinian in need of urgent medical care is allowed passage through checkpoints. The severity of the medical condition is determined by the checkpoint commander, who is to make decisions in favor of the Palestinian if there is any doubt. Palestinians are also allowed to enter Israel for routine medical care unless there is a security problem. Even then, Palestinians can appeal decisions and are also offered other options, such as transfer to neighboring states.
Ambulances are still stopped and searched at Israeli checkpoints because they have frequently been used as a means to transport terrorist bombs, and many of the murderers who have triggered suicide bombings in Israel gained access by driving or riding in Red Crescent ambulances. For example:

In October 2001, Nidal Nazal, a Hamas operative in Kalkilya, was arrested by the IDF. He was an ambulance driver for the Palestinian Red Crescent who served as a messenger between the Hamas headquarters in several West Bank towns. ⁵³
In January 2002, Wafa Idris blew herself up on the crowded Jaffa Street in Jerusalem, becoming one of the first female suicide bombers. She was an ambulance driver for the Palestinian Red Crescent, as was Mohammed Hababa, the Tanzim operative who sent her on her mission. She left the West Bank by way of an ambulance. ⁵⁴
On March 27, 2002, a Tanzim member who worked as a Red Crescent ambulance driver was captured with explosives in his ambulance. A child disguised as a patient was riding in the ambulance along with the child’s family. The explosives were found under the stretcher the “sick” child was laying on. ⁵⁵
On May 17, 2002, an explosive belt was found in a Red Crescent ambulance at a checkpoint near Ramallah. The bomb, the same type generally use in suicide bombings, was hidden under a gurney on which a sick child was lying. The driver, Islam Jibril, was already wanted by the IDF, and admitted that this was not the first time that an ambulance had been used to transport explosives or terrorists. In a statement issued the same day, the International Committee of the Red Cross said that it “understands the security concerns of the Israeli authorities, and has always acknowledged their right to check ambulances, provided it does not unduly delay medical evacuations.” The sick passengers in the ambulance were escorted by soldiers to a nearby hospital. ⁵⁶
On June 30, 2002, Israeli troops found 10 suspected Palestinian terrorists hiding in two ambulances in Ramallah. They were caught when soldiers stopped the vehicles for routine checks. ⁵⁷
In December 2003, Rashed Tarek al-Nimr, who worked as a chemist in hospitals in Nablus and Bethlehem, supplied chemicals from the hospitals to Hamas for use in making bombs and admitted he used ambulances to transport the chemicals. He also said the Hamas commanders would hide in hospitals to avoid arrest. ⁵⁸
In December 2004, a Hamas agent with forged documents claiming that he was a cancer patient in need of medical treatment from an Israeli hospital was arrested by security forces. Hamed A-Karim Hamed Abu Lihiya was to meet up with another terrorist, obtain weapons from allies inside Israel, and carry out an attack. That same month, a man recruited by the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade to plant a bomb on the railway tracks nearNetanya tried to use false papers indicating he needed hospital treatment to enter Israel. Another Hamasterrorist planning a suicide bombing was arrested in March 2005 after pretending to be a kidney donor. ⁵⁹

“Israeli hospitals extend humanitarian treatment to Palestinians from the Gaza Strip and West Bank. These efforts continued when all other cooperation between Palestinians and Israelis came to a halt during the most recent intifada.”
— Palestinian obstetrician and gynecologist Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish ⁶⁰
On June 20, 2005, Wafa Samir Ibrahim Bas was arrested attempting to smuggle an explosives belt through the Erez crossing. Bas aroused the suspicion of soldiers at the checkpoint when a biometric scanner revealed she was hiding explosives. When she realized they had discovered the explosive belt, she attempted unsuccessfully to detonate it. ⁶¹
Bas had been admitted on humanitarian grounds to Soroka Medical Center in Be’er Sheva several months earlier for treatment of massive burns she received as a result of a cooking accident. After her arrest, she admitted that theFatah al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade had instructed her to use her personal medical authorization documents to enter into Israel to carry out a suicide attack. In an interview shown on Israeli television, Bas said her “dream was to be a martyr” and that her intent was to kill 40 or 50 people—as many young people as possible.
Interesting Facts
Since its founding in 1996, Save a Child’s Heart, an Israeli humanitarian group that treats children suffering from heart problems, has treated more than 900 children from Gaza. ⁶²
Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish, a Palestinian obstetrician and gynecologist from the Jabalya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip, who has worked at the Soroka Hospital, wrote that he was “outraged at the cynical and potentially deadly suicide bombing attempt.” Dr. Abuelaish said he does research at the hospital’s Genetic Institute and has warm relations with his colleagues. “I make a point, whenever I’m at the hospital, of visiting Palestinian patients,” he said. “I also schedule appointments for other Gaza residents, and even bring medication from Soroka to needy patients in the Strip. . . . On the very day that she planned to detonate her bomb, two Palestinians in critical condition were waiting in Gaza to be taken for urgent treatment at Soroka.”
Dr. Abuelaish added, “Wafa was sent to kill the very people in Israel who are healing Palestinians from the Gaza Strip and West Bank. What if Israeli hospitals now decide to bar Palestinians seeking treatment? How would those who sent Bas feel if their own relatives, in need of medical care in Israel, are refused treatment?” ⁶³
By using this tactic, the Palestinians have reinforced the necessity of retaining the checkpoints and forced Israel to carry out more stringent inspections, yet another example of how terrorists are making life unnecessarily difficult for innocent Palestinians.
Despite a number of other cases where Palestinian terrorists tried to take advantage of the “medical route” to infiltrate Israel, more than 18,000 Palestinians from Gaza, and 175,000 from the West Bank, were allowed to travel to hospitals in Israel in 2010 to receive treatment from some of the finest medical facilities in the world. This includes approximately 7,500 children. Many of these patients receive life-saving treatments that are not available in the Palestinian territories. ⁶⁴
Case Study
Picture a 19-year-old soldier commanding a checkpoint when an ambulance arrives. Inside is a woman who is seemingly pregnant and who appears to be in pain; her husband is also highly anxious.
But the soldier has been warned about an ambulance bearing a pregnant woman who is not really pregnant. The intelligence said that underneath an ambulance's stretcher a wanted terrorist is hiding with an explosive belt for a suicide attack.
It is a hot day and there is a long line of cars. His commanders are yelling at him on the two-way radio, “Do not let ambulances without being thoroughly checked, there may very well be terrorists inside!” To complicate the picture, a news video crew is present.

The soldier has to make an incredible number of decisions in a very short time. He is only 19 and has no medical training. He knows that if he lets the ambulance go through and it contains a terrorist, then innocent people will die and he will have failed in his mission. On the other hand, if there is not a terrorist in this particular ambulance, and he delays a truly pregnant woman from reaching a hospital, the lives of the mother and baby could be endangered.
What would you do?

by Irn Bru Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:35 am

PhilDidge wrote:You support Hamas do you not, plus read again

MYTH
“Israeli checkpoints prevent Palestinians from receiving medical attention.”
FACT
Israel has instituted checkpoints for one reason—to prevent Palestinian terrorists from infiltrating Israel. If thePalestinian Authority was fulfilling its Road Map obligations to dismantle the terrorist networks and disarm the terrorists, and its security forces were taking adequate measures to prevent Palestinians from planning and launching attacks, the checkpoints would be dismantled.
Israel tries to balance its security concerns with the welfare of the Palestinians, and is especially sensitive to the medical needs of Palestinians. According to IDF guidelines, any Palestinian in need of urgent medical care is allowed passage through checkpoints. The severity of the medical condition is determined by the checkpoint commander, who is to make decisions in favor of the Palestinian if there is any doubt. Palestinians are also allowed to enter Israel for routine medical care unless there is a security problem. Even then, Palestinians can appeal decisions and are also offered other options, such as transfer to neighboring states.
Ambulances are still stopped and searched at Israeli checkpoints because they have frequently been used as a means to transport terrorist bombs, and many of the murderers who have triggered suicide bombings in Israel gained access by driving or riding in Red Crescent ambulances. For example:

In October 2001, Nidal Nazal, a Hamas operative in Kalkilya, was arrested by the IDF. He was an ambulance driver for the Palestinian Red Crescent who served as a messenger between the Hamas headquarters in several West Bank towns. ⁵³
In January 2002, Wafa Idris blew herself up on the crowded Jaffa Street in Jerusalem, becoming one of the first female suicide bombers. She was an ambulance driver for the Palestinian Red Crescent, as was Mohammed Hababa, the Tanzim operative who sent her on her mission. She left the West Bank by way of an ambulance. ⁵⁴
On March 27, 2002, a Tanzim member who worked as a Red Crescent ambulance driver was captured with explosives in his ambulance. A child disguised as a patient was riding in the ambulance along with the child’s family. The explosives were found under the stretcher the “sick” child was laying on. ⁵⁵
On May 17, 2002, an explosive belt was found in a Red Crescent ambulance at a checkpoint near Ramallah. The bomb, the same type generally use in suicide bombings, was hidden under a gurney on which a sick child was lying. The driver, Islam Jibril, was already wanted by the IDF, and admitted that this was not the first time that an ambulance had been used to transport explosives or terrorists. In a statement issued the same day, the International Committee of the Red Cross said that it “understands the security concerns of the Israeli authorities, and has always acknowledged their right to check ambulances, provided it does not unduly delay medical evacuations.” The sick passengers in the ambulance were escorted by soldiers to a nearby hospital. ⁵⁶
On June 30, 2002, Israeli troops found 10 suspected Palestinian terrorists hiding in two ambulances in Ramallah. They were caught when soldiers stopped the vehicles for routine checks. ⁵⁷
In December 2003, Rashed Tarek al-Nimr, who worked as a chemist in hospitals in Nablus and Bethlehem, supplied chemicals from the hospitals to Hamas for use in making bombs and admitted he used ambulances to transport the chemicals. He also said the Hamas commanders would hide in hospitals to avoid arrest. ⁵⁸
In December 2004, a Hamas agent with forged documents claiming that he was a cancer patient in need of medical treatment from an Israeli hospital was arrested by security forces. Hamed A-Karim Hamed Abu Lihiya was to meet up with another terrorist, obtain weapons from allies inside Israel, and carry out an attack. That same month, a man recruited by the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade to plant a bomb on the railway tracks nearNetanya tried to use false papers indicating he needed hospital treatment to enter Israel. Another Hamasterrorist planning a suicide bombing was arrested in March 2005 after pretending to be a kidney donor. ⁵⁹

“Israeli hospitals extend humanitarian treatment to Palestinians from the Gaza Strip and West Bank. These efforts continued when all other cooperation between Palestinians and Israelis came to a halt during the most recent intifada.”
— Palestinian obstetrician and gynecologist Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish ⁶⁰
On June 20, 2005, Wafa Samir Ibrahim Bas was arrested attempting to smuggle an explosives belt through the Erez crossing. Bas aroused the suspicion of soldiers at the checkpoint when a biometric scanner revealed she was hiding explosives. When she realized they had discovered the explosive belt, she attempted unsuccessfully to detonate it. ⁶¹
Bas had been admitted on humanitarian grounds to Soroka Medical Center in Be’er Sheva several months earlier for treatment of massive burns she received as a result of a cooking accident. After her arrest, she admitted that theFatah al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade had instructed her to use her personal medical authorization documents to enter into Israel to carry out a suicide attack. In an interview shown on Israeli television, Bas said her “dream was to be a martyr” and that her intent was to kill 40 or 50 people—as many young people as possible.
Interesting Facts
Since its founding in 1996, Save a Child’s Heart, an Israeli humanitarian group that treats children suffering from heart problems, has treated more than 900 children from Gaza. ⁶²
Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish, a Palestinian obstetrician and gynecologist from the Jabalya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip, who has worked at the Soroka Hospital, wrote that he was “outraged at the cynical and potentially deadly suicide bombing attempt.” Dr. Abuelaish said he does research at the hospital’s Genetic Institute and has warm relations with his colleagues. “I make a point, whenever I’m at the hospital, of visiting Palestinian patients,” he said. “I also schedule appointments for other Gaza residents, and even bring medication from Soroka to needy patients in the Strip. . . . On the very day that she planned to detonate her bomb, two Palestinians in critical condition were waiting in Gaza to be taken for urgent treatment at Soroka.”
Dr. Abuelaish added, “Wafa was sent to kill the very people in Israel who are healing Palestinians from the Gaza Strip and West Bank. What if Israeli hospitals now decide to bar Palestinians seeking treatment? How would those who sent Bas feel if their own relatives, in need of medical care in Israel, are refused treatment?” ⁶³
By using this tactic, the Palestinians have reinforced the necessity of retaining the checkpoints and forced Israel to carry out more stringent inspections, yet another example of how terrorists are making life unnecessarily difficult for innocent Palestinians.
Despite a number of other cases where Palestinian terrorists tried to take advantage of the “medical route” to infiltrate Israel, more than 18,000 Palestinians from Gaza, and 175,000 from the West Bank, were allowed to travel to hospitals in Israel in 2010 to receive treatment from some of the finest medical facilities in the world. This includes approximately 7,500 children. Many of these patients receive life-saving treatments that are not available in the Palestinian territories. ⁶⁴
Case Study
Picture a 19-year-old soldier commanding a checkpoint when an ambulance arrives. Inside is a woman who is seemingly pregnant and who appears to be in pain; her husband is also highly anxious.
But the soldier has been warned about an ambulance bearing a pregnant woman who is not really pregnant. The intelligence said that underneath an ambulance's stretcher a wanted terrorist is hiding with an explosive belt for a suicide attack.
It is a hot day and there is a long line of cars. His commanders are yelling at him on the two-way radio, “Do not let ambulances without being thoroughly checked, there may very well be terrorists inside!” To complicate the picture, a news video crew is present.

The soldier has to make an incredible number of decisions in a very short time. He is only 19 and has no medical training. He knows that if he lets the ambulance go through and it contains a terrorist, then innocent people will die and he will have failed in his mission. On the other hand, if there is not a terrorist in this particular ambulance, and he delays a truly pregnant woman from reaching a hospital, the lives of the mother and baby could be endangered.
What would you do?

Source?

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:36 am

Why do you need a source it is from the Jewish library, you need to counter the facts it has posted

by Irn Bru Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:41 am

PhilDidge wrote:Why do you need a source it is from the Jewish library, you need to counter the facts it has posted

Oh well that's be that then.

I'll stick with the WHO who raise serious questions over Israels barriers to healthcare for Palestinian people.

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:43 am

A report published recently by Israel’s Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories Unit (COGAT) shows that 219,464 Palestinian patients received medical treatment in Israeli hospitals during 2012 – 21,270 of them children. These numbers include companions accompanying the patients to Israel.
The numbers show a dramatic increase in Palestinians receiving treatment from Israeli medical professionals. 197,713 Palestinians received medical treatment in Israel in 2011, and 144,838 in 2008.
COGAT, a military unit which is responsible for implementing the Israeli government’s policy in Judea and Samaria, stated that: “The Civil Administration, through its health department (HDCA), works closely with the Palestinian Ministry of Health to support the medical needs of the Palestinian population throughout Judea and Samaria.” The HDCA manages all issues relating to Israeli-Palestinian healthcare coordination, primarily the transfer of Palestinian patients to hospitals in Israel.
The HDCA further works to enable professional medical training for Palestinians by the state of Israel, through the encouragement of medical conferences and the training of Palestinian medical staff in Israeli hospitals. Training sessions take place several times a year, initiated by both the HDCA and the Palestinian Authority. In 2012, the Civil Administration paid two million NIS to send Palestinian doctors, nurses, and paramedics for training in Israel. The Civil Administration has also set aside a budget to finance critical medical procedures for patients who are not covered by Palestinian or UNRWA health insurance and are not able to pay privately.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/08/02/increase-in-palestinians-treated-in-israeli-hospitals/

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:43 am

So basically Irn Curtain is denying the facts, no suprise there then

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:25 am

Human Rights, Pregnancy and Israeli Checkpoints

JURIST Guest Columnist Abeer Hashayka, an LL.M. Candidate from the University of Pittsburgh School of Law Class of 2012, examines the treatment of Palestinian families at Israeli checkpoints and calls for safe, reliable access to hospitals and clinics during pregnancy...

For most families, the birth of a child is a happy and joyful event. But in Palestine, the situation is different. From the first days of pregnancy, Palestinian women face complications getting access to routine healthcare that most people in developed countries take for granted. Most notably, many Palestinian women have difficulties reaching their doctors because of Israeli checkpoints that separate Palestinian cities and villages. The stress of not being able to reach the hospital increases for pregnant women and their families as the months progress, and the situation is even worse at the time of birth. Oftentimes, women in labor are stopped at checkpoints and are not allowed to pass through to the hospital. These women wake up to find themselves giving birth at a checkpoint. Sometimes these women hear their babies' cries and sometimes they do not. It is not rare for women to wake up and find that their baby has died, all because they were not allowed to pass through the checkpoint. With the lack of medical assistance, sometimes these women do not wake up at all.

The Israeli checkpoints in Palestinian territories have imposed serious inconveniences to the Palestinians traveling throughout the territories. Hundreds of concrete barriers and dozens of checkpoints restrict the ability of many people who need medical treatment in the Palestinian territories to reach medical centers. Palestinian women, especially pregnant women, are most affected by these closures. Many health problems such as pre-eclampsia, anemia and high blood pressure that can be treated relatively easily through a doctor's assistance become unnecessarily severe because of denied access to healthcare by way of the checkpoints.

According to an August 2006 report from the Palestinian Ministry of Health, 68 women were forced to give birth at military checkpoints. Consequently, four mothers and 34 babies died as a result of birth complications due to a lack of health care. Additionally, a study [PDF] about Palestinian women who gave birth at checkpoints between 2000 and 2007 indicated that ten percent of pregnant Palestinian women were delayed at checkpoints during their transport to the hospital to give birth.

This situation is brought to life by one Palestinian's blog, in which the loss of a newborn at a checkpoint is recounted: Nahil Abou Reda was a twenty-two-year-old Palestinian woman and a resident of Qusra in the Nablus District. While she was seven months pregnant, she started to bleed severely. Nahil and her husband left for the nearest hospital in Nablus, but Israeli soldiers stopped them at a checkpoint and asked them to produce documents from the Israeli Liaison Office before they would be allowed to pass. Nahil's husband tried to reason with the soldiers, but they refused to allow either Nahil or her husband through. Instead, the soldiers directed them to another, farther checkpoint at Hwarra where Israeli soldiers still would not let them pass. Finally, Nahil's husband called for an ambulance, but the Israeli soldiers would not allow it to pass either. Nahil delivered her baby at the checkpoint, in sight of the ambulance that had come to help but could not reach her. After seven months of pregnancy, Nahil woke up to find that her baby had died at a checkpoint.

Lack of prenatal care during pregnancy is not the only problem that Palestinian women encounter. In order for families to pass through the checkpoints, Israeli soldiers require them to obtain permission from the health centers and hospitals. However, the permission is only temporary, lasting for one or two days, and it is difficult for women to predict exactly when they will go into labor or require medical assistance. Israel must also ensure that medical personnel are able to arrive at work without being harassed at the checkpoints. The many obstacles that a pregnant Palestinian woman must overcome in order to safely arrive at a hospital are mentally and physically exhausting. Women should have the uninhibited right to receive prenatal care and to deliver a baby in a safe environment. The actions taken by Israeli soldiers at the checkpoints is a violation of human rights.

Despite the many conventions that reiterate the importance of access to medical care, Israel has largely disregarded these directives. The sanctity of human life is spelled out under Article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights: "Every human being has the inherent right to life. This right shall be protected by law. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life." More specifically, the importance of protecting access to healthcare is clearly stated under Article 25 of the Universal Declaration for Human Rights:

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, and housing and medical care and necessary social services...
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

Pregnant women enjoy special, specific protections under international treaties, such as Article 10(2) of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, which states that "[s]pecial protection should be accorded to mothers during a reasonable period before and after childbirth." Additionally, Article 12(2) of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women states that "[p]arties shall ensure to women appropriate services in connection with pregnancy, confinement and the post-natal period, granting free services where necessary, as well as adequate nutrition during pregnancy and lactation."

The Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment speaks directly to the current checkpoint crisis. It specifically mentions Israel's abuse of checkpoints in its May 2009 report: "Notwithstanding the State party's legitimate security concerns, the Committee is seriously concerned at the many allegations provided to the Committee from non-governmental sources on degrading treatment at checkpoints, undue delays and denial of entry, including for persons with urgent health needs."

The Fourth Geneva Convention also emphasizes the the need for protection of pregnant women at checkpoints. Article 38(5) dictates that "children under fifteen years, pregnant women and mothers of children under seven years shall benefit by any preferential treatment to the same extent as the nationals of the State concerned." Also, Article (16) of the Fourth Geneva Convention clearly spells out that "expectant mothers ... shall be the object of particular protection and respect."

According to these conventions, the inability of Palestinian women to reach hospitals during their pregnancies or access safe medical care is a clear violation of human rights. Israel, as a party to the above conventions, must cease its discrimination against Palestinian women by ensuring them access to healthcare — especially during pregnancy, delivery and the post-natal period.

http://jurist.org/dateline/2012/07/abeer-hashayka-israeli-checkpoints.php

Now, before we have any rubbish about they might be terrorists trying to get into Israel, these checkpoints are in Palestine and the mothers are trying to get to hospitals and healthcare in Palestine. Didge seems to think that checkpoints are just around Israel. They are not, they are within Palestine and stop people going from village to village in their own country.

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:29 am

These checkpoints are need, considering they are under costant threat from terrorists and you are trying to excuse the terrorists, who without there would be no need to have check points, so you are wanting Israel to place all its citizens at risk, whether they are Jews, Muslims or Christians.

Of course who in Palestine pays for this medical care given to hundreds of thousands of Palestinians.
Oh Israel does.

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:30 am

Lets ask Sassy this question again:

Picture a 19-year-old soldier commanding a checkpoint when an ambulance arrives. Inside is a woman who is seemingly pregnant and who appears to be in pain; her husband is also highly anxious.
But the soldier has been warned about an ambulance bearing a pregnant woman who is not really pregnant. The intelligence said that underneath an ambulance's stretcher a wanted terrorist is hiding with an explosive belt for a suicide attack.
It is a hot day and there is a long line of cars. His commanders are yelling at him on the two-way radio, “Do not let ambulances without being thoroughly checked, there may very well be terrorists inside!” To complicate the picture, a news video crew is present.

The soldier has to make an incredible number of decisions in a very short time. He is only 19 and has no medical training. He knows that if he lets the ambulance go through and it contains a terrorist, then innocent people will die and he will have failed in his mission. On the other hand, if there is not a terrorist in this particular ambulance, and he delays a truly pregnant woman from reaching a hospital, the lives of the mother and baby could be endangered.
What would you do?

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:35 am

Let's not, because it doesn't happen, only in the heads of people trying to excuse it. The pregnant women come on foot, and it the case shown, bleeding heavily. And they are trying to move WITHIN PALESTINE.

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:39 am

Oh it does happen as seen from the examples shown of terrorism, you want again to bury your head in the sand and place the lives of many people at risk.

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:45 am

Still don't get it do you. These checkpoints are WITHIN PALESTINE, people trying to move about in their own country. Could you cite me a time when palestinians have bombed other palestinians?

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:49 am

I do get it thanks, these check points are needed, because of terrorism, which keeps happening in Israel and I am beginning to wonder if you know support terrorists it seems, as the safety of all Citizens in Israel comes first, what you need to understand is that if it were not for the terrorists, these checl points would not be needed, something you fail to grasp

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:55 am

The checkpoints having nothing to do with terrorism, they are within Palestine, stopping palestinian people moving within their own country, they are illegal.

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