Ricky Tomlinson at Trussell Trust food bank: My proud city Liverpool does not deserve to go hungry

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:32 pm

Concerned: Ricky is upset that families have to turn to food banks
Chris Neill
When I was asked to help out at a Liverpool food bank by the Trussell Trust and Len McCluskey, I leapt at the chance. But what I saw there really stopped me in my tracks.

The volunteers were working flat out packing food boxes for families who without their help would have nothing to wake up to on Christmas morning.

Then the manager Paul told me this was just one of a number of food banks in and around Liverpool and all of them would be rushed off their feet over Christmas.

In all there are 400 Trussell Trust food banks trying to feed 20,000 kids this Christmas. That’s on top of the 500,000 people they’ve fed since April, which is like feeding the whole of Wembley stadium five and a half times over.

Now Len and I are working class Liverpudlians – born and bred. We know what Scousers are like. Ours is a city full of proud people.

It’s obvious to us that the moment a family was forced to go to a food bank for help would’ve been one of the hardest of their lives – no matter how friendly the volunteers.

So it makes me furious when a prat like Tory Government minister Lord Freud says people are just going to take advantage of a free meal. Rubbish! These families are totally desperate.

And don’t even get me started on Esther McVey. That Wirral MP is simply a complete embarrassment to all of Merseyside.

Last week she was representing the Government in a debate on food banks, which was demanded by the 144,400 people who signed Jack Monroe’s petition – backed by the Mirror and Unite.

But Esther couldn’t even be bothered to stay the whole way through the debate. Just like her boss Iain Duncan Smith, she ran off, rather than face up to the damage that her Government is doing.

The truth is millions of families are facing a grim Christmas and 2014, because of frozen wages, rocketing bills and Government cuts. Pay packets simply can’t cover the cost of living.

But rather than do something about it, this lot in government are trying to blame ordinary people and turn us against each other.

Sadly, our afternoon at the food bank reminded Len and me of a time we’d hoped had been left behind.

We remembered being trade union organisers in the 1970s and 1980s, me on the building sites and Len as a dock worker. Back then ordinary families were facing desperate poverty.

But throughout that dark time one thing kept us going – the strength of our community.

Even if too often the government then didn’t give a toss about us, people pulled together to help each other out.

That’s why I’m so proud to be backing the Mirror, the Trussell Trust and Unite Christmas appeal this year.

It’s inspiring to see once again ordinary people, all around the country, putting their hands in their pockets to donate whatever they can manage.

As a trade unionist, I’m so glad that Unite is helping to lead this cause. After all, looking out for people in tough times is what we have always
done best.

It’s great that we are all coming together to make sure that families living in crisis can at least have some food on the table for Christmas Day.

I could not sit down to enjoy my Christmas dinner knowing that there were people who did not have one. Don’t forget – it’s not too late for you to help.

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ricky-tomlinson-trussell-trust-food-2957077#ixzz2oOnVQj00
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by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:34 pm

Absolutely right.

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:36 pm

Sassy wrote:Absolutely right.

Many people are seeing the problem for what it is else they wouldn't be donating the food, thankfully this proves that those who dismiss the problem as of peoples own doing, not managing their money properly rot as in the nasty minority.

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:42 pm

No minority, if we are it is a shame people can not see this, then clearly they are clouding their judgement as 11 million people in this country are in serious debt, so how did they get into such a predicament?
Are you going to tell me the government is responsible for 11 million getting into so much debt?
I don't think so, do you?

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:06 pm

The cost of living is getting higher and higher, people will resort to desperate measures in order not to see their kids starve, put some money on their electric/gas key metres etc.

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:08 pm

If you ask me people need to stop living beyond their means, and we constantly have people excusing this

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:10 pm

These nasty party cap doffers see to think that inflation doesn't exist and there is bound to be a problem when low wages stay the same and benefits in real terms have been slashed and won't be increasing at all for the next three years. (wankers)

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:12 pm

PhilDidge wrote:If you ask me people need to stop living beyond their means, and we constantly have people excusing this

They aren't living beyond their means they are trying to feed their kids and keep the electric and gas running and that isn't living beyond their means Rolling Eyes

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:14 pm

So 11 million people never lived beyond their means they were all unlucky then and none of them could have prevented their serious debt problem then?

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:46 pm

People won't just put up with starving to death etc forever.

In the end there will be riots and civil unrest and people will just take the food that they need to feed themselves and their children and who could blame them.

They can't put everyone in prison.

I would like to see people marching on parliament, that IDS should be hauled out and let the mob show him the error of his ways.

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:29 pm

Truly one of the good guys, just a pity there were not heaps more famous folk like him.

by Vintage Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:34 pm

The problem is people are poorly paid and its getting worse mant peiople on benefits can barely afford to live no hope of luxuries, then we have people paid benefits that really shouldn't be and can afford all sorts of luxuries. We have two married couples in our community both of whom are 'on the sick' and get mobility, they have a mobility car each ie two cars per house, yet they are fit enough it appears, one couple goes hiking every weekend just about, the man in the other couple goes fishing all around the coast scrambling over rocks and such, his wife paints the entire outside of the house - from a ladder every couple of years. They go to Spain regularly where one couple has a villa, anything new that comes out they get it, widescreen tv's, conservatories, patios, houses done out regularly - this is the problem, people managing to get what they shouldn't be entitled to while others that are in need get little or no help. Every time this gets brought up people in wheels chairs get pushed to the front of the protest while the shirkers stay in the shadows or at least get their regulation walking sticks out.

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:37 pm

Joy Division wrote:Truly one of the good guys, just a pity there were not heaps more famous folk like him.

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:39 pm

Vintage wrote:The problem is people are poorly paid and its getting worse mant peiople on benefits can barely afford to live no hope of luxuries, then we have people paid benefits that really shouldn't be and can afford all sorts of luxuries. We have two married couples in our community both of whom are 'on the sick' and get mobility, they have a mobility car each ie two cars per house, yet they are fit enough it appears, one couple goes hiking every weekend just about, the man in the other couple goes fishing all around the coast scrambling over rocks and such, his wife paints the entire outside of the house - from a ladder every couple of years. They go to Spain regularly where one couple has a villa, anything new that comes out they get it, widescreen tv's, conservatories, patios, houses done out regularly - this is the problem, people managing to get what they shouldn't be entitled to while others that are in need get little or no help. Every time this gets brought up people in wheels chairs get pushed to the front of the protest while the shirkers stay in the shadows or at least get their regulation walking sticks out.

RW Hogwash.

Do you read the Daily Mail by any chance.

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:42 pm

....The UKIP bible! study

://?roflmao?/:

by Vintage Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:54 pm

No, don't read the papers, I see what I see with my own eyes, around here is rife with them, virtually the only people with new cars are nil tax - ie mobility. People working can't afford new cars. This came up on another site some time ago and some blind to the truth person reckoned I was mentally ill because I wrote about the scroungers. I guarantee you not everyone with a mobility car needs it, if only you could open your eyes. I live near a couple who get £520:00 per week, rent paid but not out of that money, he walks miles with his walking stick over his shoulder, they are out every night at pubs and clubs. I know how much they get because they told me on one of my rare visits to the pub, they complained to me it wasn't enough to live on because they have to get taxis home from the said pub..

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:59 pm

Vintage wrote:No, don't read the papers, I see what I see with my own eyes, around here is rife with them, virtually the only people with new cars are nil tax - ie mobility. People working can't afford new cars. This came up on another site some time ago and some blind to the truth person reckoned I was mentally ill because I wrote about the scroungers. I guarantee you not everyone with a mobility car needs it, if only you could open your eyes. I live near a couple who get £520:00 per week, rent paid but not out of that money, he walks miles with his walking stick over his shoulder, they are out every night at pubs and clubs. I know how much they get because they told me on one of my rare visits to the pub, they complained to me it wasn't enough to live on because they have to get taxis home from the said pub..

All made up bile of course...Most people aren't going to discuss their finances in public and especially to someone with your kind of attitude, and you do read the DM Tess because you always post their articles elsewhere, which had to be pointed out to prove to the people that know you that you are lying again.

by Vintage Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:38 pm

A. I'm not Tess
B. the odds are that not everyone is genuine as some poor deluded fools think
C. I live in a small community everyone knows when you change your socks
D. You'd be suprised the things I get told (without any encouragement on my part)

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:55 pm

A. If you say so (Didge has called you Tess on here and you didn't correct him)
B. The majority are genuine.
C. You don't live in England though.
D. You probably get told things by the DM and your other RW friends.

by Irn Bru Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:49 pm

Liverpool. The proud city that brought so much wealth to this country over the years but a city that the Tories thought had served its purpose and it was time to bring it to and end in a managed decline.
Yep, that's what was proposed by senior cabinet members in the last Tory government.
Liverpool is a great city and I love it there.

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:03 pm

Catman wrote:
Joy Division wrote:Truly one of the good guys, just a pity there were not heaps more famous folk like him.

Jo Brand in the Labour Party magazine about the Health Service:

I was there in the 80s when Thatcher changed the whole nature of the health service. We were shocked enough then, but this time it is even worse. I think it's all being done by stealth, the public doesn't even realise it's happening. The Tories say the NHS is safe in their hands. What a load of .. hang on, that probably isn't printable!

The Tories are taking the NHS backwards, that means that specific projects on mental health issues are being washed away - leaving people with very blunt services which only cover the basic minimum. Where do you start? Alcohol problems are not as serious as drug issues? People with chronic health problems don't need that day care centre? How do you make that choice? It's shocking and everyone will lose because it will affect the wider community.

by veya_victaous Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:39 pm

Well it is true that people will rort the system but 11million is evidence of and systematic problem. if the systems is broken for that proportion of the population obviously leaders should be looking at fixing the system.
You will always have a few rorters and that actually should not be a problem, gov't/economists are supposed to allow for a 3-5% unemployable rate in any nation. it is annoying but is part of reality and never going to go away.
The Idea that almost 20% is in this category is silly there is obviously a real problem to account for the additional 15-18% of people struggling.

by Guest Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:40 pm

Couldn't agree more.

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:38 am

Christ on a fucking bike!

It's on London news that some woman nicked a tiny Xmas tree (from the lobby) of a private care home!

...A tiny Xmas tree...with a little star on top, she is probably trying to cheer up her starving kids, and trying to bring some cheer into their lives!

FFS!

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:00 am

by Manicfoot Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:27 am

Iain Duncan-Smith has apparently ordered Job Centers to buy five loaves and two fishes for every 5,000 claimants in a bid to wipe out Food Banks. It's a friggin disgrace the state this government has got the country into and they still blame Labour? They don't give a toss about who they hurt or who they tread on in the pursuit of their own personal gain.
To go back to one of the early posts about benefit cheats. Even though this is wrong and tars many people with the same brush, it's just a fraction of the amount which is owed by big business in dodged tax, many of the guilty corps are, not surprisingly, big supporters of the Selfservatives and no doubt the other parties have their own sugar daddies who are allowed to dodge tax. With this in mind, shouldn't governments lead by example? Start at the top and work your way down, then those lesser off will get the message that cheating isn't the way, but then again, there would be more revenue from tax which could be plied back into the system to help people and give them hope.
The E.U wanted to give the U.K millions of pounds a few days ago for the purpose of funding food banks, these bunch of retards refused it. Refused the same E.U they want us out of, why do they want us out of it? So the government can run riot with new laws and regulations, many of which would go against the working person and everyone else. General Joe public listens to the crap about the E.U but they don't realise they have more rights and protection under E.U law and they don't realise that immigration levels are recommended by the E.U, countries only need to take in a certain amount of folk who they can cherry pick, but successive governments allow more than the quota into the country blaming the E.U, but the way i see it is, it's just a ploy to get cheap labor into the country and drive down wages. Rant over sorry if i went off topic

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:13 am

We are not talking about benefits cheats here but how people are poor at managing their finances, 11 million are in severe debt and this is being ignored. In fact I don;t anyone has been going on about Benefit cheats

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:05 am

Define benefit cheat?

I know friends of mine, they have abandoned their flats because of arrears etc...They are now sleeping on friends sofas...They aren't supposed to be there...They are the hidden homeless

Would you describe the people that put them up as cheats if they don't admit that they are living there?

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:11 am

People are pulling together..Giving up rooms etc...To make ends meet.

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:47 am

PhilDidge wrote:We are not talking about benefits cheats here but how people are poor at managing their finances, 11 million are in severe debt and this is being ignored. In fact I don;t anyone has been going on about Benefit cheats

by veya_victaous Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:04 am

@phil
then what r u talking about?
some may be living beyond their means but is the mean they are given adequate? I'm not going to say that some of the 11 million are not just wasteful but by the same token many of them will be legitimate cases.

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:03 am

veya_victaous wrote:@phil
then what r u talking about?
some may be living beyond their means but is the mean they are given adequate? I'm not going to say that some of the 11 million are not just wasteful but by the same token many of them will be legitimate cases.

No the fact is the vast majority Veya are living beyond their means who are in debt. The reality is how many people are unlucky to have lost a job which has created their debt for example? Everyone has their own responsibility to manage their finances, thus it is people themselves in the main, not all but many who have crated their own situation. You only get into debt by taking money you do not have in loans etc. Thus many people have created their own situation, whether it be a mortgage beyond their means to buying a car. These decisions are made by the individual, now unless they have lost their job, then why have they gotten into this situation, when nobody forced them to do anything, they decided to use credit to obtain many things. This is why people here are missing the real problem we need to tackle, personal debt and to teach people how to manage their finances and even worse here people are trying to excuse irresponsibility from people. I am all for less tax on low income workers, benefits to help families etc, but when people starting making illogical claims on policies when the root cause of people in debt, is those people themselves they ignore this real issue, as the reason why some are feeling the affects of such polices is because they have gotten themselves into such a financial mess for many. The right way forward is to seek advice and start to make sacrifices of things that are not necessities and a good example of this is from this link with a family on benefits and will point out what they do not need.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16812185

Sky TV?
Internet?
Mobile phones? (pay as you go would do)
24 cans of lager?
200 cigarettes and a large pouch of tobacco?

I could go on the list is endless would even argue for him to get rid of the tele, which I went without as a child as we could not afford, thus saving him a TV licence fee as well. The reality is many things are not a necessity on that list, but people think they are, they have no idea of self sacrifiice

The reality is people are living today, not all but many placing the material objects over the greater need, the people themselves. When you have less money you don't buy things you cannot afford, and sadly many do on credit. This is the problem in today's society and it has led to great debt! Sorry but I am a realist and don't try to ignore the truth of the matter

by veya_victaous Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:40 am

and why should the poor always sacrifice? sure they are better off abandoning the system and just fucking up anyone with stuff :D
If the man isn't going to give them a decent life why obey the man? burn it down, they have nothing to lose not even a TV Twisted Evil

We tried your way and that it were it always ends up blood and fire because it is inherently wrong to believe that someone doesn't deserve a TV (in this day and age) but some one else deserves 4 in their car alone. Why should the poor except that?

by veya_victaous Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:45 am

But you completely ignore the role advertising plays, And moving to a 'user pays' system. the fact that No you cant not have a phone and you are greatly disadvantaged to not have the internet. And the increased availability of Credit, the reduction in Regulation meaning that banks started offering people more than they could afford.

You cant blame it all on the poor person there is entire systems that have had billions of dollars invested in them to get People to Borrow money to buy things that don't really need. that is growth in the economy that is the whole goal of the capitalist.

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:56 am

veya_victaous wrote:and why should the poor always sacrifice? sure they are better off abandoning the system and just fucking up anyone with stuff :D
If the man isn't going to give them a decent life why obey the man? burn it down, they have nothing to lose not even a TV

We tried your way and that it were it always ends up blood and fire because it is inherently wrong to believe that someone doesn't deserve a TV (in this day and age) but some one else deserves 4 in their car alone. Why should the poor except that?

Eh?
If you do not have the money you do not live beyond your means, are you saying if you do not have the income you should buy things you in essence do not need? I come from a childhood that was very poor and we went without many things but in fact we also gained, it provided us with more time with each other, time to learn, we were active etc. As stated I am all for helping people on lower income and who need benefits to live or to help gain themselves back into work, but making a sacrifice of material objects for the needs of your family should not even come into question, it should be done as always the right thing to do.
Why should you need a TV, I don't watch TV unless it is for sports or a Film, yet I can afford to do so, people mind find if they spent less time being glued to something and got their heads into books, they would see that is far more beneficial. Sorry that is absurd to say people need a TV in this day and age. If you cannot afford one, you don;t have one and in fact will no doubt get people back into what they should be doing in learning. Again you miss the point, what you think is a necessity is nothing of the sort.
Everyone makes sacrifices, not just the poor many people do daily and it is not difficult, all you have to do is just try.

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:01 am

veya_victaous wrote:But you completely ignore the role advertising plays, And moving to a 'user pays' system. the fact that No you cant not have a phone and you are greatly disadvantaged to not have the internet. And the increased availability of Credit, the reduction in Regulation meaning that banks started offering people more than they could afford.

You cant blame it all on the poor person there is entire systems that have had billions of dollars invested in them to get People to Borrow money to buy things that don't really need. that is growth in the economy that is the whole goal of the capitalist.

Really, many places off free internet, like Library, and why would you need to internet for valid reasons that is, looking for a job maybe which as seen you can do without owning a PC.
I am saying people who cannot afford have a pay as you go mobile, which is only used in necessities. Who is blaming the poor person, I am talking about all people who have gotten themselves into debt with poor mismanagement of their money, many people on good incomes have severe debt, so this view point thinking I am talking about and blaming the poor is complete gobbledygook, I am talking about an ethos that has grown over a few decades where people have become not only very materialistic but irresponsible with money. Again I was raised from a poor upbringing and did not want for anything, why is it you think people should, as you must think material objects bring happiness, sorry they do not, as happiness comes from within, when you are surrounded by the basics things in life, food, a roof over your head and most important of all love.

by veya_victaous Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:23 pm

Food and a roof over your head will not get you very far now days.
Yes when you grew up not having a TV was acceptable, it is 2013 it is not acceptable anymore.
YES I agree in the purest terms they are not needed but today in a capitalist society they are. a child in a house with out the internet will do worse at school let alone one with out a TV. We don't have town criers any more you want to know what is going on you need a TV.
And Again WHY should the poor person have nothing while there are people just as underserving with so much?

very materialistic... Der what do you think billions dollars a year get spent on!!! do you think those psychoanalysts that get paid 6 figure salaries by advertising agencies have done nothing for decades? It is the System not the fucking monkey in pants that is the problem. Maybe if some Billionaire didn't demand MORE profit constantly every year at a rate higher than the growth in wages the monkey in pants may be able to maintain a standard of living rather than constantly getting poorer in comparison to society. Then you have another billionaire telling them buy it now I'll lend you the money you can afford to repay it, of course he tells them that until they can just afford to meet the repayments, that way he take the maximum amount in interest, there are entire division in Banks devoted to getting people to do this, billions invested to develop tools techniques to get the Monkey in pants to hand over everything he can afford and more.

I grew up poor too but I have money now it is a hell of a lot better, no it doesn't make you happy but it takes away the fear of having nothing. And No you are still looking at the middle class like they still have something, the middle class are now poor the distribution of wealth have become such that everyone in the bottom 90% comparative wealth has gone down, while the top 0.1% has gone up dramatically.

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:41 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:@phil
then what r u talking about?
some may be living beyond their means but is the mean they are given adequate? I'm not going to say that some of the 11 million are not just wasteful but by the same token many of them will be legitimate cases.

No the fact is the vast majority Veya are living beyond their means who are in debt. The reality is how many people are unlucky to have lost a job which has created their debt for example? Everyone has their own responsibility to manage their finances, thus it is people themselves in the main, not all but many who have crated their own situation. You only get into debt by taking money you do not have in loans etc. Thus many people have created their own situation, whether it be a mortgage beyond their means to buying a car. These decisions are made by the individual, now unless they have lost their job, then why have they gotten into this situation, when nobody forced them to do anything, they decided to use credit to obtain many things. This is why people here are missing the real problem we need to tackle, personal debt and to teach people how to manage their finances and even worse here people are trying to excuse irresponsibility from people. I am all for less tax on low income workers, benefits to help families etc, but when people starting making illogical claims on policies when the root cause of people in debt, is those people themselves they ignore this real issue, as the reason why some are feeling the affects of such polices is because they have gotten themselves into such a financial mess for many. The right way forward is to seek advice and start to make sacrifices of things that are not necessities and a good example of this is from this link with a family on benefits and will point out what they do not need.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16812185

Sky TV?
Internet?
Mobile phones? (pay as you go would do)
24 cans of lager?
200 cigarettes and a large pouch of tobacco?

I could go on the list is endless would even argue for him to get rid of the tele, which I went without as a child as we could not afford, thus saving him a TV licence fee as well. The reality is many things are not a necessity on that list, but people think they are, they have no idea of self sacrifiice

The reality is people are living today, not all but many placing the material objects over the greater need, the people themselves. When you have less money you don't buy things you cannot afford, and sadly many do on credit. This is the problem in today's society and it has led to great debt! Sorry but I am a realist and don't try to ignore the truth of the matter

...lucky sods eh? Yet no mention of food, clothing , energy bills or anything else...just 11 million irresponsible people in debt and no doubt in your mind on benefits too Didge...

Do you realise what you sound like?

Picking not the poorest , disabled and vulnerable people Didge...

As Scrat would say...very poor sport a do not an ounce of understanding poverty , and before you tell me you led a life of poverty previously then you would not have the views you do.

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:42 pm

Didge's motto....bash the needy , help the greedy.

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:47 pm

veya_victaous wrote:Food and a roof over your head will not get you very far now days.
Yes when you grew up not having a TV was acceptable, it is 2013 it is not acceptable anymore.
YES I agree in the purest terms they are not needed but today in a capitalist society they are. a child in a house with out the internet will do worse at school let alone one with out a TV. We don't have town criers any more you want to know what is going on you need a TV.
And Again WHY should the poor person have nothing while there are people just as underserving with so much?

very materialistic... Der what do you think billions dollars a year get spent on!!! do you think those psychoanalysts that get paid 6 figure salaries by advertising agencies have done nothing for decades? It is the System not the fucking monkey in pants that is the problem. Maybe if some Billionaire didn't demand MORE profit constantly every year at a rate higher than the growth in wages the monkey in pants may be able to maintain a standard of living rather than constantly getting poorer in comparison to society. Then you have another billionaire telling them buy it now I'll lend you the money you can afford to repay it, of course he tells them that until they can just afford to meet the repayments, that way he take the maximum amount in interest, there are entire division in Banks devoted to getting people to do this, billions invested to develop tools techniques to get the Monkey in pants to hand over everything he can afford and more.

I grew up poor too but I have money now it is a hell of a lot better, no it doesn't make you happy but it takes away the fear of having nothing. And No you are still looking at the middle class like they still have something, the middle class are now poor the distribution of wealth have become such that everyone in the bottom 90% comparative wealth has gone down, while the top 0.1% has gone up dramatically.

Bloody true, up the Revolution!

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:41 pm

veya_victaous wrote:Food and a roof over your head will not get you very far now days.
Yes when you grew up not having a TV was acceptable, it is 2013 it is not acceptable anymore.
YES I agree in the purest terms they are not needed but today in a capitalist society they are. a child in a house with out the internet will do worse at school let alone one with out a TV. We don't have town criers any more you want to know what is going on you need a TV.
So you place material wealth over necessities, thanks for admitting that, showing even further proof of the fact of this problem today. Sorry without access to the internet will do worse at school? Blimey, I think you just argued not to print anymore books anymore as they are worthless to you. Sorry a child does not need the internet or the TV at home to learn, that is just plain ridiculous

And Again WHY should the poor person have nothing while there are people just as underserving with so much?
So your argument is we might as well have no need to educate people in life, they can not study or achieve goals in employment and that we just give the same to everyone when people in most of the cases have chosen their own path in life, why bother with any of that by your logic. Sorry if you want to have these items you work hard as do others for a better life, and not expect everything on a plate. Not everyone has the opportunity grate but the majority do, thus you are basically excusing people not having to do much in life, which was something that went on here before in this county called a benefit culture where people thought they could get away with doing nothing. May I suggest you go to places of which there is real poverty, places like Africa, where people work endless hours a day to feed their families, yet are for the main very happy, that is where you see real poverty, not how they class many people in the west on lower income as if they are in poverty. Again material objects has become the need for many today and that ethos is wrong

very materialistic... Der what do you think billions dollars a year get spent on!!! do you think those psychoanalysts that get paid 6 figure salaries by advertising agencies have done nothing for decades?
Yes by people who can afford items and people who even when they buy using credit do so where they budget their money well and it will create a problem. I have come across for example women who think they need 70 pairs of shoes and complain to me that they are in debt. You clearly have no understanding on the matter, because I am talking about the real world here one where people are so bad at wanting some many things they do not need

It is the System not the fucking monkey in pants that is the problem.
Wrong again it is the people themselves who are placing material wealth above what is needed for them and their families, as show already with the example, where they are buying boose, fags, have sky TV ect, these are not necessities and it is appalling if anyone is to think so

Maybe if some Billionaire didn't demand MORE profit constantly every year at a rate higher than the growth in wages the monkey in pants may be able to maintain a standard of living rather than constantly getting poorer in comparison to society.
Sorry as stated we would all like for there to be better wages from some employers, but there is also such a thing called competition with the world market. For example in the UK, if some companies did not pay minimum wage it would not be viable to have any business in the uk and they would be better off for example else where. So the way the competition is which is what is driving this issue

Then you have another billionaire telling them buy it now I'll lend you the money you can afford to repay it, of course he tells them that until they can just afford to meet the repayments, that way he take the maximum amount in interest, there are entire division in Banks devoted to getting people to do this, billions invested to develop tools techniques to get the Monkey in pants to hand over everything he can afford and more.

I grew up poor too but I have money now it is a hell of a lot better, no it doesn't make you happy but it takes away the fear of having nothing. And No you are still looking at the middle class like they still have something, the middle class are now poor the distribution of wealth have become such that everyone in the bottom 90% comparative wealth has gone down, while the top 0.1% has gone up dramatically.

Again you are making the most daftest accusations I have not made. If you think having money makes life better I again suggest you go and see how some people live without it and lead the simplest of lives

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:43 pm

Joy Division wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

No the fact is the vast majority Veya are living beyond their means who are in debt. The reality is how many people are unlucky to have lost a job which has created their debt for example? Everyone has their own responsibility to manage their finances, thus it is people themselves in the main, not all but many who have crated their own situation. You only get into debt by taking money you do not have in loans etc. Thus many people have created their own situation, whether it be a mortgage beyond their means to buying a car. These decisions are made by the individual, now unless they have lost their job, then why have they gotten into this situation, when nobody forced them to do anything, they decided to use credit to obtain many things. This is why people here are missing the real problem we need to tackle, personal debt and to teach people how to manage their finances and even worse here people are trying to excuse irresponsibility from people. I am all for less tax on low income workers, benefits to help families etc, but when people starting making illogical claims on policies when the root cause of people in debt, is those people themselves they ignore this real issue, as the reason why some are feeling the affects of such polices is because they have gotten themselves into such a financial mess for many. The right way forward is to seek advice and start to make sacrifices of things that are not necessities and a good example of this is from this link with a family on benefits and will point out what they do not need.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16812185

Sky TV?
Internet?
Mobile phones? (pay as you go would do)
24 cans of lager?
200 cigarettes and a large pouch of tobacco?

I could go on the list is endless would even argue for him to get rid of the tele, which I went without as a child as we could not afford, thus saving him a TV licence fee as well. The reality is many things are not a necessity on that list, but people think they are, they have no idea of self sacrifiice

The reality is people are living today, not all but many placing the material objects over the greater need, the people themselves. When you have less money you don't buy things you cannot afford, and sadly many do on credit. This is the problem in today's society and it has led to great debt! Sorry but I am a realist and don't try to ignore the truth of the matter

...lucky sods eh? Yet no mention of food, clothing , energy bills or anything else...just 11 million irresponsible people in debt and no doubt in your mind on benefits too Didge...

Do you realise what you sound like?

Picking not the poorest , disabled and vulnerable people Didge...

As Scrat would say...very poor sport a do not an ounce of understanding poverty , and before you tell me you led a life of poverty previously then you would not have the views you do.

Hi Joy

I suggest you read the link again as it did mention everything yet you seem to excuse them needing unwarranted items and again I am being a realist it is not picking on anyone but showing how bad people are in thinking what they feel is necessary which is what you have failed to answer why things like sky TV are to them.
Stop distracting from the points as that is all I am seeing you do Joy!

by Guest Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:44 pm

Joy Division wrote:Didge's motto....bash the needy , help the greedy.

Never even said that, no wonder there is so many problems today when those on the left are so blind to the reality, is quite shocking really, they would ignore real problems as shown they do indeed

by Vintage Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:42 am

Catman wrote:A. If you say so (Didge has called you Tess on here and you didn't correct him)
B. The majority are genuine.
C. You don't live in England though.
D. You probably get told things by the DM and your other RW friends.

Sorry to be late at the party, well this party, I've been to another, please point me in the direction of any post that Didge has referred to me as Tess, 'cos I seem to have missed them. The point is if we didn't have cheats living a very good life on benefits we just may be able to give deserving people a reasonable standard of living. I've told you I don't read the papers and I have no particular allegiance to any political party therefore I am not swayed by propaganda, I do keep my eyes and ears open and people do tend to tell me all sorts of things and more than once I've been told what people can get on the system if they know how, and there are those who'll fill in your forms for I think the going rate is about £100:00 and have quite a remarkable success rate, unfortunately it doesn't appear to be the people who actually need it that go for this, they can't afford the fee for one thing. As for the majority being genuine - did I say any different? As for not living in England - no I don't, although I have done. I stick by what I've said because its true and it annoys me that those with enough chops and cheek get it all even when they don't need or deserve it and others who do need and deserve it but tend to be quiet and perhaps proud, however genuine get only minimal help, certainly not mobility, I've lived amongst my community for 30 odd years and I reckon if you don't know a thing or two by then you'd have to be blind, deaf and dumb.

by Guest Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:54 am

PhilDidge wrote:
Joy Division wrote:Didge's motto....bash the needy , help the greedy.

Never even said that, no wonder there is so many problems today when those on the left are so blind to the reality, is quite shocking really, they would ignore real problems as shown they do indeed

The RW are so blind to the reality of the poor rising up in the future, people won't be going to their own destruction easily...Your a mug if you think that they will.

by Guest Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:56 am

...You will probably get away with the cull on the poor elderly this winter though.

by Guest Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:20 am

Vintage wrote:
Catman wrote:A. If you say so (Didge has called you Tess on here and you didn't correct him)
B. The majority are genuine.
C. You don't live in England though.
D. You probably get told things by the DM and your other RW friends.

Sorry to be late at the party, well this party, I've been to another, please point me in the direction of any post that Didge has referred to me as Tess, 'cos I seem to have missed them. The point is if we didn't have cheats living a very good life on benefits we just may be able to give deserving people a reasonable standard of living. I've told you I don't read the papers and I have no particular allegiance to any political party therefore I am not swayed by propaganda, I do keep my eyes and ears open and people do tend to tell me all sorts of things and more than once I've been told what people can get on the system if they know how, and there are those who'll fill in your forms for I think the going rate is about £100:00 and have quite a remarkable success rate, unfortunately it doesn't appear to be the people who actually need it that go for this, they can't afford the fee for one thing. As for the majority being genuine - did I say any different? As for not living in England - no I don't, although I have done. I stick by what I've said because its true and it annoys me that those with enough chops and cheek get it all even when they don't need or deserve it and others who do need and deserve it but tend to be quiet and perhaps proud, however genuine get only minimal help, certainly not mobility, I've lived amongst my community for 30 odd years and I reckon if you don't know a thing or two by then you'd have to be blind, deaf and dumb.

He has done.

You were originally posting, then you left and some of your posts are appearing as Guest.

by Guest Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:21 am

...Original reference to you as being Tess has been deleted.

We all know it's you anyway.

by Guest Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:22 am

Catman wrote:A. If you say so (Didge has called you Tess on here and you didn't correct him)
B. The majority are genuine.
C. You don't live in England though.
D. You probably get told things by the DM and your other RW friends.

Sorry but that is a blatant lie, I would like to see the evidence of such an accusation please?
The poster Veritas was Tess and It was veritas who I referred to Tess and know is Tess from the other forum, who has left and I am beginning to understand her reasons why.
Please get your facts straight!

by Guest Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:21 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Joy Division wrote:

...lucky sods eh? Yet no mention of food, clothing , energy bills or anything else...just 11 million irresponsible people in debt and no doubt in your mind on benefits too Didge...

Do you realise what you sound like?

Picking not the poorest , disabled and vulnerable people Didge...

As Scrat would say...very poor sport a do not an ounce of understanding poverty , and before you tell me you led a life of poverty previously then you would not have the views you do.

Hi Joy

I suggest you read the link again as it did mention everything yet you seem to excuse them needing unwarranted items and again I am being a realist it is not picking on anyone but showing how bad people are in thinking what they feel is necessary which is what you have failed to answer why things like sky TV are to them.
Stop distracting from the points as that is all I am seeing you do Joy!

Hope Christmas wasnt too windy up there in your Ivory Tower Didge

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