M&S Tells Muslim Staff They Can Refuse To Sell Alcohol & Pork

23rd December 2013

What next?  

Please discuss.


Muslim staff working for Marks & Spencer have been given permission to refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork products


Its policy decision has highlighted a split among the big food retailers over whether religious staff should be excused certain jobs.


In contrast to M&S, Sainsbury’s said it had issued official guidelines that stated there was no reason why staff who did not drink alcohol or eat pork for religious reasons could not handle the goods.


The advice followed consultations with religious groups, said a spokesman.


Tesco said it treated each case on its merits, but said it “made no sense” to employ staff on a till who refused to touch certain items for religious reasons.
Asda said it would not deploy Muslims on tills who objected to handling alcohol, while Morrisons, which is based in Bradford where there is a large Muslim community, said it had widespread experience of dealing with the issue and would “respect and work around anyone’s wishes not to handle specific products for religious or cultural reasons”.

At M&S, Muslim staff who do not wish to handle alcohol or pork have been told they can politely request that customers choose another till at which to pay.

At one of its stores in central London last week, customers waiting with goods that included pork or alcohol were told by a Muslim checkout worker to wait until another till became available. The assistant was extremely apologetic at having to ask customers to wait.

One customer, who declined to be named, said: “I had one bottle of champagne, and the lady, who was wearing a headscarf, was very apologetic but said she could not serve me. She told me to wait until another member of staff was available.

“I was taken aback. I was a bit surprised. I’ve never come across that before.”

Customers trying to buy alcoholic drinks for Christmas were also asked to wait.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/10532782/Muslim-staff-at-Marks-and-Spencer-can-refuse-to-sell-alcohol-and-pork.html

Rich Muslims have been investing a lot of money in the UK, certainly in London...The Shard is Muslim owned just to give one example.

It is a bit worrying imo...If Muslim staff are being allowed to not serve pork or alcohol based on religious dogmire, that doesn't fit in with our secular laws at all.

...Everything is really fucked in this country now and nothing makes any kind of sense anymore unless you are rich and have money..The elite have the power and that also involves rich Muslims as well as British Eton toffs   

...The elite are calling the shots.

There aren't any rules anymore.

...I have always existed between two worlds..I know everything!   

...I have known a time when i was so poor, that i used to go out and pick up fag buts from the outside of a supermarket...I used to live on gravy granules for a short while...But food prices and the cost of living weren't as bad as they are now.

....Then i would be flown out to Spain...£250,000 house with a swimming pool, with views across the African coast at the top of a very beautiful mountain.

...Out of all of my time on this fucking planet...I will say that i've mixed with both rich and poor people but the poorer people that i have met have been far more genuine.

I thought there was already a case in the U.K. where a judge ruled that Muslim busdrivers can't pull a park-and-pray if they want to keep their jobs? What, is this different because it's a private-sector job?

We have had b.s. like that here in the States, too:

The right of pharmacists to refuse to sell the morning-after pill to customers on conscience grounds should be abolished, according to academics writing in the Journal of Medical Ethics.

Dr Cathal Gallagher, a pharmacist at the University of Hertfordshire, has written a paper with three other academics arguing that pharmacists who do not distribute the morning-after pill demand “the power of veto over the liberty of others, and over the implementation of public policy”.

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/01/31/medical-journal-pharmacists-must-give-out-morning-after-pill/

Ha, I actually cited a U.K. case, it seems. Here's one from the U.S.:

Up until now, pharmacists in Washington and Illinois had been assured by the courts that they could choose not to dispense Plan B if they so chose. A federal judge ruled in February of 2012 that Washington state couldn’t force pharmacies to sell Plan B. Then in September of the same year, an Illinois appellate court affirmed a lower court’s ruling that pharmacists could not be forced by the state to sell Plan B if they had religious objections.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/pharmacists-react-morning-after-pill-ruling-1B9241454

I think that is stupid.
All the cases above.

If your religion will prevents you doing tasks that are a reasonable expectation in your employment (like all of the above would be) than you should lose your religion or your job. why accept a job that you know they are going to expect you to do stuff you cant do?

veya_victaous wrote:I think that is stupid.
All the cases above.

If your religion will prevents you doing tasks that are a reasonable expectation in your employment (like all of the above would be)  than you should lose your religion or your job. why accept a job that you know they are going to expect you to do stuff you cant do?

How bloody ridiculous.
I hate feet so would never work in a shoe shop.

what about all the Muslim off licence owners?
Can you imagine how many people in supermarket till queues today have alcohol or pork based products?

So, it seems we're all agreed that this is just ridiculous but would you all agree that cases similar to this one have been happening here in the UK for probably the past 10 - 15 years?

Some of them with tragic consequences.

So why are they still happening?

This does seem crazy, it's not as though the staff are being asked to eat the food and drink the alcohol.  Live and let live, follow religion if you wish, let people drink and eat sausages and bacon if they wish.  

If they really want to go down this road then perhaps M and S should relocate staff to other departments such as clothing? It's not rocket science is it?

Not in the UK, so I don't know how long or why, Andy.

Its a non story anyway, because it was just one worker, M&S have said:

The spokeswoman said: "Where we have an employee whose religious beliefs restrict food or drink they can handle, we work closely with our members of staff to place them in suitable role, such as in our clothing department or bakery in foods.

"As a secular business we have an inclusive policy that welcomes all religious beliefs whether across our customer or employee base. This policy has been in place for many years, and when followed correctly, we do not believe that it should compromise our ability to offer the highest level of customer service. We apologise that this policy was not followed in the case reported."

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/dec/23/marks-and-spencer-muslim-alcohol

This also applies to Jewish workers and pork.

I have never met a Muslim that has refused to sell me drink and I have bought a lot in my lifetime some of which was in Muslim countries.

They do a good deal  

They do indeed, best night I ever had in my life was in an Irish bar in Tunisia with some Tunisians, Russians, English, Irish and Canadian. I can never hear 'Feel' by Robbie Williams without hearing it sung in a Tunisian accent lol

My recollection is in Morocco when a woman approached me in true Lauren Bacall style at the bar with a cigarette and asked me for a light

So I gave her one lol

It was in Mohammedia

So why would this muslim apply for a job that would require them to do something against their religion?

NemsAgain wrote:So why would this muslim apply for a job that would require them to do something against their religion?

Exactly and I would think that in future M&S will amend their employment procedures to make sure that carrying out these activities is an integral part of the job and they sign up to it.

Irn Bru wrote:

NemsAgain wrote:So why would this muslim apply for a job that would require them to do something against their religion?

Exactly and I would think that in future M&S will amend their employment procedures to make sure that carrying out these activities is an integral part of the job and they sign up to it.

Sounds sensible to me Irn

It is OTT, I thought it was only forbidden in their religion to consume alcohol or pork, not to sell it at work where it should be theor duty like everyone else...


As Nems said...it is part of their duties amd they knew this before taking the job.

Irn Bru wrote:I have never met a Muslim that has refused to sell me drink and I have bought a lot in my lifetime some of which was in Muslim countries.

They do a good deal  

Your dead right Irn..there are Muslims corner shops everywhere and a couple of my old schoolmates help ru. Their parents off- licence.

NemsAgain wrote:So why would this muslim apply for a job that would require them to do something against their religion?

Agreed Nems, those who are taking up a job, knowing they have an issue, when they should never have one in the first place are in fact damaging the reputation of many Muslims with this kind of stupidity to be honest.
No religious beliefs should supersede what a person is contracted to so, if it does come into conflict with a person's faith then they should not apply for the job, it is as simple as that

PhilDidge wrote:

NemsAgain wrote:So why would this muslim apply for a job that would require them to do something against their religion?

Agreed Nems, those who are taking up a job, knowing they have an issue, when they should never have one in the first place are in fact damaging the reputation of many Muslims with this kind of stupidity to be honest.
No religious beliefs should supersede what a person is contracted to so, if it does come into conflict with a person's faith then they should not apply for the job, it is as simple as that

It is simple I agree. If their faith is so important to them they need to be sure their faith is compatible with the position applied for. Their responsibility. Remember the hairdresser who wanted to wear the head scarf and tried to sue when she didnt get the job ?

PhilDidge wrote:

NemsAgain wrote:So why would this muslim apply for a job that would require them to do something against their religion?

Agreed Nems, those who are taking up a job, knowing they have an issue, when they should never have one in the first place are in fact damaging the reputation of many Muslims with this kind of stupidity to be honest.
No religious beliefs should supersede what a person is contracted to so, if it does come into conflict with a person's faith then they should not apply for the job, it is as simple as that

I'm with you on this one too Phil, the acts of a small minority affecting the reputations of many   

Agreed again FTL and Nems.
Religion should be a personal choice and with that personal choice should be within that person's time, not the company time or within schools or anything. To be honest I would not even have religious schools as they are very biased in teaching views that sway a young individual on matters in life. They happen to be some of the best, but religion should be just a subject and nothing more.

If people want to follow a faith good luck to them, but they are also wanting constantly special treatment all the time, which none of us would seek whilst employed. I can understand certain garments for example, but again some will not confirm to the job role

Total non argument. M&S have already said the woman was employed to work in areas like clothes etc and should not have been put on the food till.

No M&S screwed up big time and pander to religious views over the customer, this is the facts of the case, they then after claiming they allowed this backed down and claimed otherwise

PhilDidge wrote:No M&S screwed up big time and pander to religious views over the customer, this is the facts of the case, they then after claiming they allowed this backed down and claimed otherwise

One thing is certain Marks and Spencer have dropped a right clanger with this one.

NemsAgain wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:No M&S screwed up big time and pander to religious views over the customer, this is the facts of the case, they then after claiming they allowed this backed down and claimed otherwise

One thing is certain Marks and Spencer have dropped a right clanger with this one.

Agreed Nems

I wouldn't have thought many retailers can afford to employ staff who are only prepared to work in certain sections; particularly at busy times such as Christmas when they need employees to be flexible and work on tills in the busiest areas

It might be a "non argument" but this kind of publicity does affect opinion and not in a good way  

feelthelove wrote:I wouldn't have thought many retailers can afford to employ staff who are only prepared to work in certain sections; particularly at busy times such as Christmas when they need employees to be flexible and work on tills in the busiest areas

It might be a "non argument" but this kind of publicity does affect opinion and not in a good way  

Right and as Didge just said they have been seen very publicly not to be putting the customer first

What the hell do you think they do with strict Jewish people? Most muslims are not so strict that they would bother, a few are. What the hell is the fuss. I remember a jewish girl having a special diet at school. Do you think this is a new thing. Just something else dredged up by the Daily Wail.

Sassy wrote:What the hell do you think they do with strict Jewish people?   Most muslims are not so strict that they would bother, a few are.   What the hell is the fuss.   I remember a jewish girl having a special diet at school.   Do you think this is a new thing.   Just something else dredged up by the Daily Wail.

Do strict Jewish people apply for jobs that compromise their religion?

No, the muslim lady didn't either. She normally worked on something like clothes, M&S apologised for putting her on food checkouts, it wasn't what she was employed to do.

Sassy wrote:No, the muslim lady didn't either.   She normally worked on something like clothes, M&S apologised for putting her on food checkouts, it wasn't what she was employed to do.

Not much use in a department store is she, when the shops are packed its every one to a till.
She should be thankful she has a bloody job

Well, at least she doesn't wear a veil lol

NemsAgain wrote:

Sassy wrote:No, the muslim lady didn't either.   She normally worked on something like clothes, M&S apologised for putting her on food checkouts, it wasn't what she was employed to do.

Not much use in a department store is she, when the shops are packed its every one to a till.
She should be thankful she has a bloody job

I have to admit I was thinking the same thing. The whole thing has been blown completely out of proportion, it's not against her religion, more about personal choice. The publicity as a result has been very damaging   

As she is a strict muslim, it is against her religion. M&S KNEW THAT, which is why they apologised because it was not what she was employed to do. The publicity has only been damaging to people who want to use it to that end, which is becoming very apparent.

Sassy wrote:As she is a strict muslim, it is against her religion.   M&S KNEW THAT, which is why they apologised because it was not what she was employed to do.   The publicity has only been damaging to people who want to use it to that end, which is becoming very apparent.

Drinking alcohol is against her religion, is selling it? Some muslims apparently refuse to handle it but I don't believe it's a religious requirement?

Live and let live, it works both ways.

Its hardly the point, she wasn't employed to do it.

feelthelove wrote:

Sassy wrote:As she is a strict muslim, it is against her religion.   M&S KNEW THAT, which is why they apologised because it was not what she was employed to do.   The publicity has only been damaging to people who want to use it to that end, which is becoming very apparent.

Drinking alcohol is against her religion, is selling it? Some muslims apparently refuse to handle it but I don't believe it's a religious requirement?

Live and let live, it works both ways.

Drinking, selling and making any profit is forbidden in Islam.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

feelthelove wrote:

Drinking alcohol is against her religion, is selling it? Some muslims apparently refuse to handle it but I don't believe it's a religious requirement?

Live and let live, it works both ways.

Drinking, selling and making any profit is forbidden in Islam.

Thanks for clarifying Sexy x

feelthelove wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Drinking, selling and making any profit is forbidden in Islam.

Thanks for clarifying Sexy x

You're welcome xx

So let me get this right.The majority of you are lefties but you don't agree with the muslim womans stance of selling alcohol etc.Which means you think she's wrong but you suck up to muslims.......(because it's the fashion to do so).

You all agree that what she is doing is wrong yet you want the Labour party to win the election,knowing that they will allow even more weird & oppressive muslim ideals to take hold........which you think are wrong.

Now tell me,how do your minds work all that out because it sounds kind of........back to front to me?

Do you all take illegal drugs in front of your children?

Shady wrote:So let me get this right.The majority of you are lefties but you don't agree with the muslim womans stance of selling alcohol etc.Which means you think she's wrong but you suck up to muslims.......(because it's the fashion to do so).

You all agree that what she is doing is wrong yet you want the Labour party to win the election,knowing that they will allow even more weird & oppressive muslim ideals to take hold........which you think are wrong.

Now tell me,how do your minds work all that out because it sounds kind of........back to front to me?

Do you all take illegal drugs in front of your children?

Well, I'm American so I'm not familiar with all the specific policies of Labour. Tell me, what "weird and oppressive Muslim ideals" have taken hold in the U.K.?