Cameron government rejected flood risk warnings from climate advisers

First topic message reminder :

Committee on Climate Change had warned in October that the government must take action to protect homes from risk of flooding

The UK government was warned by its official climate change advisers in October that it needed to take action on the increasing number of homes at high risk of flooding but rejected the advice.

The decision not to develop a strategy to address increase flooding risk came just a few weeks before Storm Desmond brought about severe flooding in Cumbria, Lancashire and other parts of the north west causing an estimated £500m of damage.

The Committee on Climate Change (CCC) also told the Guardian that, despite David Cameron’s promise to do so, the government had failed to learn lessons from the widespread flooding in the winter of 2013-14. Those floods led to emergency financial bailouts to flood defence funds which had previously been cut under the coalition government.
The revelation came as George Osborne announced a £50m repair and renew scheme for Cumbria and Lancashire in the wake of the floods, promising that businesses and homeowners will quickly receive the help that they need.

Osborne said the scheme would be administered by local authorities, acknowledging that a centrally administered fund following the floods in 2014 had been slow to get funds to families in need.

The region had to deal with more heavy rain on Wednesday, causing more disruption, although flooding on the scale of last weekend is not expected. Cumbria police said that more than a thousand homes are still without power.

In June, the CCC’s statutory report on the UK’s progress on climate change highlighted dealing with floods from extreme weather as the government’s most serious failing in preparing for the impacts of global warming. It stated: “Plans and policies, or progress in addressing vulnerabilities, are lacking”.

The CCC said “residual” flood risk – the flooding resulting from extreme weather events that cannot be prevented by normal flood defences – was increasing. On Monday, environment secretary Liz Truss said the Storm Desmond floods had resulted from “extreme weather conditions” and “unprecedented amount of rainfall.”

The CCC recommended that the government should “develop a strategy to address the increasing number of homes in areas of high flood risk”. But in October the government replied: “We believe that a strategy to address future residual risk would not be appropriate at this time.”

“The CCC made a very clear recommendation in its statutory advice, but the government rejected it,” said Daniel Johns, the CCC’s head of adaptation.

“The government approach is to build and protect, but this only provides a certain level of protection,” Johns told the Guardian. “Defences can’t be considered to remove the risk of flooding entirely.”

He said that even in the best case scenario, with full flood defence funding, no building on flood plains and moderate climate change, the number of people in the high risk category for flooding will still increase by 45,000 by 2050 as global warming causes more extreme weather.

“But the government has no strategy to address this residual risk,” Johns said. Such a strategy would focus on reducing the impact of extreme floods by, for example, increasing protection on properties themselves and managing river catchments so rain runs off hills more slowly.

Johns also said the government had failed to learn lessons from the 2013-14 floods. “After 2013-14, the wettest year in instrumental records, it is notable that there was no systematic review of lessons learned in the same way as there was after 2007”, when severe flooding lead to the extensive Pitt Review.

In February 2014, prime minister Cameron visited the submerged Somerset Levels and said: “There are always lessons to be learned and I will make sure they are learned.”

“David Cameron promised a full review of the future capability of UK’s flood defences back in 2014, but has never delivered on this,” said Guy Shrubsole, at Friends of the Earth.

“With the government’s inadequate climate change preparations leaving thousands more homes at high flood risk by 2050, ministers clearly need to do far more,” Shrubsole said. “The prime minister must get tough on flooding and tough on the causes of flooding – and that means tackling carbon emissions as well as investing more in flood defences.”
A government spokeswoman said: “This government has been clear on its commitment to climate change action and we are pushing for an ambitious global deal in Paris as well as driving innovation to build a low-carbon economy. We are also investing £2.3bn over the next six years to better protect 300,000 homes. The Environment Agency’s figures take account of climate change and show that this investment will reduce flood risk.”

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/09/cameron-government-rejected-flood-risk-warnings-from-climate-advisers


This article was after the first floods at the beginning of December, now we are on the 3rd floods and they are at unprecedented levels all over the country, the situation for many is truly awful.  Cameron pontificates on tv that more troops will be sent.  Too little, too bloody late and questions are going to asked of why he ignored what he was told and did nothing.   The fire service are trying to help, but have been cut back, as have other emergency services.  Truly he is a waste of space and a liability.

Typical monsoon drain in Singapore:



Goes from that to this in a matter of hours:



No, it's not the same drain, but I can assure you that is what happens.  You think we are unable to do that?

seen them in action sassy....its scary just how fast they go from trickle to maniac river in such a short time.....

Rivers naturally flood sometimes... build your house next to a river that sometimes floods then don't be surprised when a flood happens and your house gets a bit wet...

Lord Foul wrote:true...unless the "elsewhere down stream" is a FLOOD PLAIN....

thats what I mean by management...from source to sea   rivers streams dykes and ditches should be kept in good order....improved where needed and unobstructed.....

Exactly, like our water meadows, which luckily will never be built on:

Which go from that:



From this:

Tommy Monk wrote:Rivers naturally flood sometimes... build your house next to a river that sometimes floods then don't be surprised when a flood happens and your house gets a bit wet...

only in a few areas tommy...and a lot of people dont get to build their houuse...its built and sold to them by developers that are to say the least economical with the truth....

and judging by the spred of some of these floods ...i dont think "near" comes into it....

and here we have tommy playing the rightist card....victim blaming.....

fook em...serves em right......

and all that...

right I'm off to bed...I'll leave you to the dumb and dumber show sassy... have fun

Lol, I'm off to in a minute, never did suffer fools gladly!

All this "going to bed" malarkey pisses me off. I could say "getting up now"

Heard a bloke on LBC last night phone in about the floods... he said he was a flood defence engineer and was saying that trying to blame the current govt for the heavy rain was totally unfair... he also talked about the building on flood plains allowed by local councils had been going on since the 60s and 70s... plus he also rubbished the man made climate change arguments by stating a fact that I have mentioned before, that is that we are still just coming out of the recent 'mini ice age' and getting back to normal temperatures!!!

He also reminded listeners that records for river flows only went back about 100 years and we're very sketchy and flimsy on accuracy, and other temperature measurements only went back a little while before that and we're also very sketchy and inaccurate the further you went back.


He also mentioned the jet stream as being more responsible for recent rain falling here as it is currently more higher north than usual and bringing the wet weather... this wet weather that would normally be landing on Spain I might add... which has had a recent unusual dry period...

The rain in Spain stays mainly on the plain--ect

Would that be flood plain do you think...?

Could very well be right!

The fact remains we have a horrendous problem to overcome PDQ and Scamoron is in the drivers seat, our drains need clearing and our rivers need investigating regarding dredging and routes

Building on flood plains and then preventing these plains from flooding just pushes the flooding further down stream.


We have had heavy rain before.

It is not new...

Coventry MASSIVE University Hospital has recently been built on a flood plain against argument.

This flood water should have a way of filling our reservoirs and any left diverted out to sea.
No one seems to mention all the water stored underground which we never see and how that rises up through the ground.

We had floods around here up until a few years back, doing work on the River Leam has stopped it, if I am not speaking too soon.

For the last few years we have been interfering with nature, climate change????????????

We are coming out of the mini ice age and returning to normal temperatures... that is all...

Tommy Monk wrote:Heard a bloke on LBC last night phone in about the floods... he said he was a flood defence engineer and was saying that trying to blame the current govt for the heavy rain was totally unfair... he also talked about the building on flood plains allowed by local councils had been going on since the 60s and 70s... plus he also rubbished the man made climate change arguments by stating a fact that I have mentioned before, that is that we are still just coming out of the recent 'mini ice age' and getting back to normal temperatures!!!

He also reminded listeners that records for river flows only went back about 100 years and we're very sketchy and flimsy on accuracy,  and other temperature measurements only went back a little while before that and we're also very sketchy and inaccurate the further you went back.


He also mentioned the jet stream as being more responsible for recent rain falling here as it is currently more higher north than usual and bringing the wet weather... this wet weather that would normally be landing on Spain I might add... which has had a recent unusual dry period...

Have a listen to what he said on the LBC podcast link here...


http://lbc.audioagain.com/presenters/35-darren-adam-/388-the-whole-show


It is the one dated 29 Dec from 1 am... title is 'can we really blame govt when it rains? '


Bloke was on quite early in the show... somewhere around 10-20 mins in...

There's a bit of a row going on in York because apparently they raised the Foss barrier to prevent the pumping station breaking down, and of course loads of water from the Ouse went sailing up the Foss and flooded quite a few houses.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12072220/York-floods-Why-did-the-Foss-Barrier-fail.html

Yes Raggs... it was the improper use of food barriers that caused much of the problems...

Welcome back Miss Ragga, I hope you are well.

I read that and thought it was an ill thought out move, a tragedy for some poor souls.

Tommy Monk wrote:Yes Raggs... it was the improper use of food barriers that caused much of the problems...

Do you mean flood barriers Tommy?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Yes Raggs... it was the improper use of food barriers that caused much of the problems...

Do you mean flood barriers Tommy?

LOL, perhaps he is thinking of a gastric band?

Raggamuffin wrote:There's a bit of a row going on in York because apparently they raised the Foss barrier to prevent the pumping station breaking down, and of course loads of water from the Ouse went sailing up the Foss and flooded quite a few houses.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12072220/York-floods-Why-did-the-Foss-Barrier-fail.html

This was stated already how it will end up flooding other areas and some did not listen

Stormee wrote:Welcome back Miss Ragga, I hope you are well.

I read that and thought it was an ill thought out move, a tragedy for some poor souls.

Thank you Stormee.

Yes, I thought it was very interesting. They say if they hadn't raised the barrier and the pumps had broken, the water would have backed up in the Foss behind the barrier and flooded anyway. The people in the area which did flood are furious because they assumed they were in a safe area.

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Do you mean flood barriers Tommy?

LOL, perhaps he is thinking of a gastric band?

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:


LOL, perhaps he is thinking of a gastric band?

Is that band which Terry Wogan sang with?

Stormee wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Is that band which Terry Wogan sang with?

Oh yes - the floral dance one.

Have a listen to what this flood defence expert said on the LBC podcast link here...


http://lbc.audioagain.com/presenters/35-darren-adam-/388-the-whole-show


It is the one dated 29 Dec from 1 am... title is 'can we really blame govt when it rains? '


Bloke was on quite early in the show... somewhere around 10-20 mins in...


Says climate change is rubbish as we are just returning to normal temperatures as we come out of the mini ice age!

It's a bit daft to blame the Government really. There are rivers all over the place, and it's not anyone's fault if it rains. I think the best they can do is give people enough warning so they can at least move their stuff upstairs or whatever.

It's only daft if you have no understanding of how water and flood management works.  We'll just get rid of all the pumping stations, drainage, build on every flood plain etc shall we and just let flooding destroy a lot of the country

Building on flood plains has been going on for decades.

Tommy Monk wrote:Building on flood plains has been going on for decades.

Well yes - otherwise there would be no flooded houses.

sassy wrote:Typical monsoon drain in Singapore:



Goes from that to this in a matter of hours:



No, it's not the same drain, but I can assure you that is what happens.  You think we are unable to do that?

So does the local creek near me
and parramatta river goes from less than 2 metres deep to 6-8 metres during a storm

drains like that are pretty common to cope with the summer storms

Controversial rules on dredging rivers imposed by the European Union have contributed to the flooding which has wrought devastation across the UK, it was claimed last night.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3380694/Britain-s-flooding-crisis-worse-EU-Green-Brussels-bureaucrats-banned-river-dredging-allows-water-drain-faster-say-farmers.html#ixzz3vybvytwG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

yep stormee...this is a case of what happens when you let "text book" ecologists (i.e townies) loose in country matters, rather than the people who live and work with the land.

Stormee wrote:Controversial rules on dredging rivers imposed by the European Union have contributed to the flooding which has wrought devastation across the UK, it was claimed last night.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3380694/Britain-s-flooding-crisis-worse-EU-Green-Brussels-bureaucrats-banned-river-dredging-allows-water-drain-faster-say-farmers.html#ixzz3vybvytwG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

No surprise that the EU is again part or the problem...


And no doubt the increased risk of flooding was entirely known about and thought to be handy in promoting the global warming / climate change bullshit...

I reckon it was about 20 years ago my son got a contract to dredge/straighten part of a small river with specific contract rules.

Dredge/tip all the silt on the bank so it will not wash back into river, do not concern yourself putting any wildlife/fish back into the river.
I went to see the work being undertaken, you would never believe the amount of dying fish along the river bank, countless small stuff and a few big ones.
You may say WHY did he do it, answer, big bucks, simple.

This exercise has made a very big difference reducing bad flooding in the area.

He was not geared up for major rivers.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Stormee wrote:Controversial rules on dredging rivers imposed by the European Union have contributed to the flooding which has wrought devastation across the UK, it was claimed last night.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3380694/Britain-s-flooding-crisis-worse-EU-Green-Brussels-bureaucrats-banned-river-dredging-allows-water-drain-faster-say-farmers.html#ixzz3vybvytwG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

No surprise that the EU is again part or the problem...


And no doubt the increased risk of flooding was entirely known about and thought to be handy in promoting the global warming / climate change bullshit...

Utter bollocks, how do you think that after the flooding in Somerset a year ago the Tone and the Parrot were dredged so that they don't have the flooding now?   And believe me, I've seen the state the Parrot was in.

This article also blames the stopping of dredging as being substantially to blame....

It says the environment agency were responsible and ended the dredging a while after being created...


Just after 1996... hmmm... what happened to control of govt just after 1996...!?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/weather/10644101/How-Somerset-Levels-river-flooded-after-it-was-not-dredged-for-decades.html

The labour controlled environment agency stopped dredging from 1997...

The environment agency put an end to dredging in 1997...