If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Funny how Smelly made the same argument and it was you telling him to put verses into context.

Anyway...

Verses were revealed in different stages "as events were occurring", in order to guide Muslims in those events. So yes, there is a historical context. The interpretation comes when deciding if that context and the rationale of it still applies today, or not. In otherwords, does the jurisprudence still apply today given current events.

It's not how I want other Muslims to view the Quran. This is exactly how SUNNI (not Salafi) use the Quran. Lol! sexy Mama (the only other Muslim you know) will tell you exactly the same thing.

Gobbldygook.
Its not a historical book, with again it being claimed a final message, which would mean the verses stand for all time. Thuis is why your faith is utter gibberish at the end of the day and what is the saddest thing is so many children are being brainwashed with this rubbish with little chance of ever knowing anything different being as so many Muslim countries censur different views. As I say and as Victor has pointed out who is right? You can only go off previous scholars which shows the fallaiblity of such a faith.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

@ Fuzzy...i have read commentry on this particular subject from two opposing views...its not like theres any shortage of it is there

one side waffling on about the literal...which seems to be alarmingly prevelent, and another that gives a much softer view point, and accordingly places things in a "historical context".

Now there are issues with this, both of which you share with the bible ...

your koran is supposed to be "perfect", yet it needs "interpreting"??  ergo its NOT perfect, since then it relys on imperfect interpreters, and the ignorant (thats you fuzzy) are left to decide which of those interpreters is not imperfect....

however even the liberal interpretations I have read are quite clear....

musims friendships with non Muslims are NOT the same level as with other Muslims...

friends are confidants and guides very often....supporters in hard emotional times.....

under those circumstances...when REAL friends are needed....You cannot be my friend
moreover you are, even in the most "moderate interpretation supposed to constantly "guide me" to allah,

and as a pagan I am pure poison to you ?

and whats worse of course is this issue of taquiya, within this context

why would I accept friendship from you, knowing that there is AT LEAST a 50% chance (and thats being generous) that its false friendship, and that you are offering it only becasue it will "benefit" you in some way

I dont take for friends those who for whatever reason I consider may shake hands with the right and stab with the left, who smile with their face and hate with their heart

whilst I dont doubt there are many "interpretations" of what the koran means.....

how am I supposed to know who beleives what interpretation

the Muslim that moves in down the road...how do I know what "brand" he is ???  how do I know if hes Muslim 1.0 or Muslim 2.4 jelly bean etc???

For a start, I wasn't asking for friendship and nor do I care about your insecurities.

that point was for "demonstation purposes only"

But your insecurities does explain a lot about your mistrust of an entire culture/religion.

It's not something within my make up, so I will never understand how you even sleep at night. You must be stressed.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:

Gobbldygook.
Its not a historical book, with again it being claimed a final message, which would mean the verses stand for all time. Thuis is why your faith is utter gibberish at the end of the day and what is the saddest thing is so many children are being brainwashed with this rubbish with little chance of ever knowing anything different being as so many Muslim countries censur different views. As I say and as Victor has pointed out who is right? You can only go off previous scholars which shows the fallaiblity of such a faith.

Wow! Is that your best debating retort? Lol!

The jurisprudence is set, for all time.

I'm not telling you any different from any other Sunni Muslim.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

@ Fuzzy...i have read commentry on this particular subject from two opposing views...its not like theres any shortage of it is there

one side waffling on about the literal...which seems to be alarmingly prevelent, and another that gives a much softer view point, and accordingly places things in a "historical context".

Now there are issues with this, both of which you share with the bible ...

your koran is supposed to be "perfect", yet it needs "interpreting"??  ergo its NOT perfect, since then it relys on imperfect interpreters, and the ignorant (thats you fuzzy) are left to decide which of those interpreters is not imperfect....

however even the liberal interpretations I have read are quite clear....

musims friendships with non Muslims are NOT the same level as with other Muslims...

friends are confidants and guides very often....supporters in hard emotional times.....

under those circumstances...when REAL friends are needed....You cannot be my friend
moreover you are, even in the most "moderate interpretation supposed to constantly "guide me" to allah,

and as a pagan I am pure poison to you ?

and whats worse of course is this issue of taquiya, within this context

why would I accept friendship from you, knowing that there is AT LEAST a 50% chance (and thats being generous) that its false friendship, and that you are offering it only becasue it will "benefit" you in some way

I dont take for friends those who for whatever reason I consider may shake hands with the right and stab with the left, who smile with their face and hate with their heart

whilst I dont doubt there are many "interpretations" of what the koran means.....

how am I supposed to know who beleives what interpretation

the Muslim that moves in down the road...how do I know what "brand" he is ???  how do I know if hes Muslim 1.0 or Muslim 2.4 jelly bean etc???

https://youtu.be/vE5bvdDaUwI

You can start watching from 2 mins in.

Lord Foul wrote:many a fair word has been spoken with a foul heart....(and to be fair not exclusively by Muslims)

Lord Foul wrote:having read your example i find the following

clearly speaking a false oath would only be a "sin" in a sharia court, however i look at it , it would seem that the example given justifies/allows a false oath in any non sharia court, particularly when the "opponent" is non Muslim

if in the opinion of the oath taker the opponent was "opressing him" (which of course is a matter of conjecture)


further, the following is bound to lead to dishonourable conduct in a battle

"It is known from some traditions that during a war with unbelievers, it is permissible to use falsehood, if by doing so, victory can be gained over them."

like for instance hiding troops under a red crescent banner
pretending to surrender  etc

sassy wrote:Yanis Varoufakis: Only solution is to economically starve ISIS:

"And what does it mean to starve them: to hit them where it hurts... And the only way to do that is by tackling Saudi Arabia and the Emirates that are supporting them.

The question is: Is Mr Cameron and Mr Obama up to the task of facing up to those regimes?"

http://middleeasteye.net/news/interview-yanis-varoufakis-only-solution-starve-isis-180907257

Blasted brilliant man, if only there were more like him.


The arms industry are rubbing their hands with glee

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:having read your example i find the following

clearly speaking a false oath would only be a "sin" in a sharia court, however i look at it , it would seem that the example given justifies/allows a false oath in any non sharia court, particularly when the "opponent" is non Muslim

if in the opinion of the oath taker the opponent was "opressing him" (which of course is a matter of conjecture)


further, the following is bound to lead to dishonourable conduct in a battle

"It is known from some traditions that during a war with unbelievers, it is permissible to use falsehood, if by doing so, victory can be gained over them."

like for instance hiding troops under a red crescent banner
pretending to surrender  etc

Now you're putting your interpretation on it. And just like Isis, you're not a scholar either. And therefore you think you've found a clever loophole but in reality, not so.

For example, I would be taking an oath in a normal court by placing my hand on a Quran. Which would make lying in court haraam.

You must have a truly valid reason to lie, such as your life being in direct danger.

And when have I lied about Islam to anybody on this forum? Why haven't I used this Taqiyah?

Tommy Monk wrote:Sassy, you claim that USA runs ISIS...

NO I DIDN'T, I SAID THAT THE US AND OTHERS ARMED ISIS FOR THEIR OWN PURPOSES AND ENCOURAGED THEM IN THE BEGINNING BECAUSE THEY WANTED RID OF ASSAD,  AND PRODUCED THE PENTAGON PAPERS THAT SAY SO AND HAVE NOW REAPED THE WHIRLWIND FOR THEIR PLOTTING.   SHEEEESH, YOU COULDN'T BE DUMBER IF YOU TRIED


Do you really believe that The hard line Muslim group known as ISIS, who openly detest USA and the west, would be attacking their fellow Muslim brothers and sisters (which is strictly against their religious beliefs), just because the USA told them too...!?


Do you think they are hunting down other local non Muslim religious groups and murdering them and enslaving and raping the women and girls because the USA have told them to...!!!???


Do you think they are hunting down and killing homosexuals, by throwing them off buildings, because the USA told them to...!!!???


Do you think that the Muslims (who hate USA and the west) who are travelling to Syria to join ISIS, are doing so because USA told them to...!!!???

Didge wrote:Wow yet another conspiracy theory which seeks to blame the Jews.
This is what is part of the problem the bullshit you buy into Zack

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:Wow yet another conspiracy theory which seeks to blame the Jews.
This is what is part of the problem the bullshit you buy into Zack

And yet what he says has come true.

And I'm not sure you watched the whole video. He said nothing about blaming the Jews. So please do not lie.

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

And yet what he says has come true.

And I'm not sure you watched the whole video. He said nothing about blaming the Jews. So please do not lie.

The part that stood out saying Israel lobbying on the screen shot said it all

You mean like your other prediction conspiracy which failed to meed any of the predictions?

Please stop buying into anything that excuses Islamic terrorism.

Its getting tedious and part of the problem in the Muslim world

Again the narative I keep telling you about

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


The part that stood out saying Israel lobbying on the screen shot said it all

You mean like your other prediction conspiracy which failed to meed any of the predictions?

Please stop buying into anything that excuses Islamic terrorism.

Its getting tedious and part of the problem in the Muslim world

Again the narative I keep telling you about

They're both better than any "prediction" you've ever made.

Try to understand the difference between a conspiracy theory and prediction. You're clutching at straws.

Tommy Monk wrote:Sassy... are you saying that Obama armed ISIS...!?

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

They're both better than any "prediction" you've ever made.

Try to understand the difference between a conspiracy theory and prediction. You're clutching at straws.

lol I did not realise this was a competition on what I have predicted.
They are both very poor and crap and if that is all you can counter with it shows how easily gullible you are after I tore the first one apart to being a comple sham
Its a conspiracy theory full stop and its people like you buying into such naratives that are part of the problem.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


lol I did not realise this was a competition on what I have predicted.
They are both very poor and crap and if that is all you can counter with it shows how easily gullible you are after I tore the first one apart to being a comple sham
Its a conspiracy theory full stop and its people like you buying into such naratives that are part of the problem.

Lol! You still don't get the difference between a conspiracy theory and a predictive theory. Poor munchkin.

veya_victaous wrote:@op

Solution
https://imgur.com/topic/Funny/f2OH4q1
https://i.imgur.com/f2OH4q1.webm

The video wont post so click the link



The first is what should happen every time a tweet is posted from an ISIS account.
Assuming you have a drone in range just drop a bomb on tweet location.

Lord Foul wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:@op

Solution
https://imgur.com/topic/Funny/f2OH4q1
https://i.imgur.com/f2OH4q1.webm

The video wont post so click the link



The first is what should happen every time a tweet is posted from an ISIS account.
Assuming you have a drone in range just drop a bomb on tweet location.

I think you may find some objections to that ...I mean, i would be a tad irritated if the bloke next door was tweeting.......

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Sassy... are you saying that Obama armed ISIS...!?

Yes. He did.

Look it up.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Yes. He did.

Look it up.

If so, then why is it that Sassy and other leftie idiots are so supportive of Obama...!?

nicko wrote:Obama did not arm ISIS,  they got a lot of their weapons from what was left when the cowardly Iraq army ran away and left them.

eddie wrote:

nicko wrote:Obama did not arm ISIS,  they got a lot of their weapons from what was left when the cowardly Iraq army ran away and left them.

The USA funded ISIS and still do.
This is all about money and power.

sassy wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:@op

Solution
https://imgur.com/topic/Funny/f2OH4q1
https://i.imgur.com/f2OH4q1.webm

The video wont post so click the link



The first is what should happen every time a tweet is posted from an ISIS account.
Assuming you have a drone in range just drop a bomb on tweet location.

I think you may find some objections to that ...I mean, i would be a tad irritated if the bloke next door was tweeting.......

But that is exactly what is happening to the civilians in Syria.  Then they have Assad barrel bombing them as well.

veya_victaous wrote:

sassy wrote:

But that is exactly what is happening to the civilians in Syria.  Then they have Assad barrel bombing them as well.

Awwwwh Sassy beat me to it 

Didge wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Didge wrote:And Irn illustrates perfectly the point I am making of left wing view points that fail to grasped the reality of a problematic situation.
There are millions of Muslims that support suicide bombing, because there is nothing to stop this being associated to Islam.
There are millions of Muslims who believe there is a war being waged against Islam and see those Non_Muslim as the enemy.
There are millions of Muslims who glorify murderers through martydom.

I could go on, but the point is that it maybe a minority of the worlds Muslims that believe this and many other views, but it is a substantial minority in the tens of millions that believe this view of Islam.

The subject of this thread is as stated which eddie made quite clear which is what I did and all you could do is offer a comment on me and not address one single point that I suggested to defeat ISIS. Instead you go ranting on about Muslims blissfuly ignoring the point being made was in relation to Muslims who support ISIS. So where are the millions that support the ISIS brand of Islam? Post your numbers which you have no doubt collected from a reputable independentt source.

Try reading things a bit more carefully Didge and I won't have to pull you up for what was an obvious deflection on your part.

Have another go at the actual subject of the thread.

\
No the subject is about combating all Islmic extremism Irn at its root cause much of which is dealing with the many naratiives which shows what a complete lack of understanding you have. Try understanding the bigger picture, as again you ignore the fact they are not the only extremist group that wish to install a system that would send societies back to the stone age. If you think its only about dealing with ISIS it shows how far removed you are from understanding the many issue =s of Islamic extremism. So I suggest before you come jumping onto a thread defending an islamic extremist who defends wahhabism, you start to understand as well that you are part of the problem and people are waking up to the fact it is those on the left that are divideing our country defending groups who want to see our way of life destroyed.

Again I want to see Islam seperated from extremism, but you again fail to grasp the problems.

How about you actually address the many points and posts on the thread Irn I have made already which you evaded completey, which is no surprise and you are no position to dictate here even though this is in your stalinistic nature, it simply does not cut it here. So you have pulled me up on nothing other than to expose your poor understanding and ignore the fact there is a huge problem with the likes of other groups like Boko Haram.

As to millions that support the very same ideology as ISIS bar the extreme violence, just look at all the salafist Muslim in the world which run into the tens of millions and for support on ISIS.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-Muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/

http://www.infowars.com/pew-poll-63-million-Muslims-support-isis-in-eleven-countries/


Like I say when you do the maths there is tens of millions that support ISIS and its about time you took your head firmly out of the sand. The fact there is a significant percentage that favour ISIS as well as those who say they don't know is very disconcerting to say the least.
.
So instead of jumping on here running your mouth off being so clueless to the problem of Islamic extremism, I suggest you counter my many posts by either putting up of shutting up.
The choice is simple.

Irn Bru wrote:

Didge wrote:
\
No the subject is about combating all Islmic extremism Irn at its root cause much of which is dealing with the many naratiives which shows what a complete lack of understanding you have. Try understanding the bigger picture, as again you ignore the fact they are not the only extremist group that wish to install a system that would send societies back to the stone age. If you think its only about dealing with ISIS it shows how far removed you are from understanding the many issue =s of Islamic extremism. So I suggest before you come jumping onto a thread defending an islamic extremist who defends wahhabism, you start to understand as well that you are part of the problem and people are waking up to the fact it is those on the left that are divideing our country defending groups who want to see our way of life destroyed.

Again I want to see Islam seperated from extremism, but you again fail to grasp the problems.

How about you actually address the many points and posts on the thread Irn I have made already which you evaded completey, which is no surprise and you are no position to dictate here even though this is in your stalinistic nature, it simply does not cut it here. So you have pulled me up on nothing other than to expose your poor understanding and ignore the fact there is a huge problem with the likes of other groups like Boko Haram.

As to millions that support the very same ideology as ISIS bar the extreme violence, just look at all the salafist Muslim in the world which run into the tens of millions and for support on ISIS.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-Muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/

http://www.infowars.com/pew-poll-63-million-Muslims-support-isis-in-eleven-countries/


Like I say when you do the maths there is tens of millions that support ISIS and its about time you took your head firmly out of the sand. The fact there is a significant percentage that favour ISIS as well as those who say they don't know is very disconcerting to say the least.
.
So instead of jumping on here running your mouth off being so clueless to the problem of Islamic extremism, I suggest you counter my many posts by either putting up of shutting up.
The choice is simple.

To do the maths you need to have credible numbers to work with or at least credible estimates of how many Muslims support the brand of Islam that you claim untold millions of Muslims support.

Where's the numbers that you used to do your maths? Did they come from the EDL or a source similar to them?

Remember and dismiss all those that bought Islam for dummies and all those characterized in the article that I posted from the Huff post on the other thread.