LBC's Nick Ferrari Tells Muslim Who Opposes British Foreign Policy To Leave The UK

by Guest Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:17 pm

Nick Ferrari told a Muslim caller that if he does not agree with British foreign policy then he should "go some place else" during a heated discussion on Monday in the wake of the Paris attacks. Challenging Ferrari about comments he made regarding the Islamic State being a "Muslim problem", LBC caller Mahmoud, from Putney, said: "A lot of this is to do with British and European foreign policy.
"It's unpalatable for people like yourself, but that is the fact."

But the presenter firmly disagreed, telling Mahmoud that those who are opposed to the government's foreign policy should leave the country.Britain's foreign policy, particularly since the 9/11 attacks, has been under increased scrutiny in recent years. In 2003, two million people took to the streets of London to march against the Iraq War. France's air strikes in Raqqa, Syria, on Sunday night - two days after the Paris attacks - led to thousands tweeting #PrayForSyria. Speaking on LBC this morning, Ferrari said: "Many people are unhappy with aspects of the British government, it doesn't mean they decide to try and brainwash young people and have them...try and behead a soldier in Woolwich."

The 56-year-old presenter continued: "You have to accept that not your sect, but parts of the Muslim faith have to wake up and realise that this is the reality. 'You love life, we love death', I'll remind you of what Al Qaeda said." When Mahmoud referred to the Syrian air strikes carried out by Western nations, Ferrari interrupted: "If you don't like it, Sir, go some place else... If you don't like British government policy and the only way you see of dealing with it is to go around shooting people don't stay in this country."
Ferrari continued: "Maybe I don't like British government policy, it doesn't mean I start shooting people," adding: "You are saying 'oh well this is British foreign policy'."Nothing, no aspect of current British foreign policy, excuses what went on in Paris. Not one single aspect."Mahmoud lambasted Ferrari for his "racist" and "bigoted" comments.He added: "If you start bombing countries you are going to have this sort of problem on your own territory."Many people agreed with the caller from Putney, slamming the radio host for "promoting racist hatred" and "blaming" Muslims.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/16/lbc-presenter-nick-ferrari-Muslim-british-foreign-policy_n_8574388.html

The best way to describe the caller is simply this.

What a utter twat.

Sorry but he is saying we should not be joining a colaition of nations which includes Muslim nations to fight ISIS by bombing military targets?

We also have thousands tweeting pray for Syria in the context of attacks on ISIS military targets?

WTF

I thought Muslims have made clear that ISIS are not Muslims and they are insulting Islam.

I mean what does he want to happen?

Nothing and that where already millions have been displaced, raped, murdered, children and women enslaved, just let this continue to happen?What moral compass do these people have, when they are basically defending against attacking an extremist group that does not care about or value life? This is what I was going on about this blame culture and how even worse people are defending against attacking an extremist group that are committing some of the worst crimes against humanity. Clearly they are being seen as Muslims and again people think that the extremists are justified to attack Paris etc, for the French trying to help rid the area of these monsters.

I condemn the comments to tell him to leave this country, but this just backs up again how peoples minds are being brainwashed to be the worst apologists for the worst stain to fall onto humanity since the Nazi's.
Utterly unbelieveable, it would be like saying to not bomb the Nazi's and allow them to continue with the conquest of the world and the holocaust. It is this idiotic belief that is making out this is some crusade against Islam by Muslim preachers and yet in the same breath we have them claiming ISIS are not Muslims, yet then defending them and must think they clearly are.

So wrong on every level and it shows the influence religious leaders have on the minds of easily led people,

by eddie Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:31 pm

Wow.
LBC are normally very liberal and hardly ever take a harsh stand on matters like this

by Raggamuffin Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:38 pm

It's a bit too soon for people to be blaming anyone but ISIS for all those murders, so of course the caller will have got Ferrari's back up. I see no problem with telling someone to leave the country really.

ISIS are Muslims, they're just not the sort of Muslims that other Muslims like.

by veya_victaous Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:34 pm

the problem is the caller is right.

he didn't say Islam has no blame at all, but a lot of the issues in the middle east right now are the result of western foreign policy, or more accurately we have let our corporations create these long term problems by following the short term pursuit of profits with little to no regarded for ethical considerations.

the problem is you cannot bomb and idea out of existence, we need to see how and why ISIS is able to recruit people at all and do what we can to reduce their capacity to.

by Fuzzy Zack Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:00 pm

Did we or did we don't invade Iraq to steal their oil?

Isn't that foreign policy?

Isn't that the motive the 7/7 suicide bomber gave in his video tape?

Let's not pretend we are there to liberate anyone. The west has oil and natural gas interests in Syria #genieOil

by Victorismyhero Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:08 pm

yup ...te sooner we can get off oil and onto solar/wing/tidal electricity the better
then we can leave em all to starve....

by Cass Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:00 am

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Did we or did we don't invade Iraq to steal their oil?

Isn't that foreign policy?

Isn't that the motive the 7/7 suicide bomber gave in his video tape?

Let's not pretend we are there to liberate anyone. The west has oil and natural gas interests in Syria #genieOil

yup.

before that it was colonies, before that it was trade routes, before that religious crusading etc etc etc...

by Eilzel Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:27 am

The latest attacks were in France, as were the previous attacks earlier this year. France opposed the Iraq war. They are involved in Syria to help against Assad on the calls of the Syrian people. Now of course there will be selfish interests too- but in recent times, France has done little to warrant targeting by extremist dickheads.

by veya_victaous Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:25 am

@Les
You actually answered it yourself.
ISIS are Extremist dickheads, we have how many millions of 'educated' westerners that cant differentiate between ISIS and Islam... expecting a bunch of uneducated hill shepherds to understand the specific differences of the west is unrealistic.

BUT Why would they?
Paris is the best 'value' target for ISIS.
Because France is the weakest link in the western empire that the empire actually cares about.
Hobbled by tradition it is a stationary target slow to adapt.
it is racist and obnoxiously nationalistic.
it has never been good and integrating immigrants.
it already has anti Islam sentiment after colonial repercussions in Algeria.
has a poor track record with refugees.
Plus Charlie Hedbo.
All this leaves a nation in which it is easy to create divisions and promote ignorance and hatred.

by Eilzel Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:35 am

Then the uneducated hill shepherds with their AKs will be bombed to hell all the more.

Terror attacks, even twice a year, will not win against countries that can drop 20 bombs a go on an entire training facility then drop some more the day after.

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:33 am

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Did we or did we don't invade Iraq to steal their oil?

Isn't that foreign policy?

Isn't that the motive the 7/7 suicide bomber gave in his video tape?

Let's not pretend we are there to liberate anyone. The west has oil and natural gas interests in Syria #genieOil

Again justifying terrorism where there is no means to justify.

3 of the 7/7 bombers were British born and one a convert they were angered at supposed claims to crimes against Muslims, so the motivation was born from only one connection, Islam. It is because of a central teachings of Islam which were used to motovate them to carry out these attacks. A claim to attack Muslim lands, and thus allowing a justification to retaliation, a call to jihad and Martydom. All 3 are central Islamic teachings in the Quran and what is used by the extremists to motivate such suicide attacks and there is no denying that are central to the Islamic faith. No matter if argued if it is argued it is wrong to take innocent life. As seen it is easily able to use to push some Muslims who alreay have been taught constantly of a unfounded claim of a crusade against Islam. They would have never blown themselves up if not for a constant narative which is conatntly promoted to Muslims. Which the majority of Muslims, extremist and non-extremist alike believe themselves, of which is a view of incorrectly of a crusade againt Islam.

This is what people are failing to grasp at every turn. Falsifications on a view that America is the Great Satan and lying that the west is out to destroy Islam and where people died in Iraq. Ignoring the fact most of which came from insurrection from opposing Muslim groups. Who's hatred of each other had been going on for centuries. Not only that it had been throughout the reign of Saddam that many had sufferted to the tune of half a million dead indirectly and directly through persecution and wars. We can all argue all day long about the rights and wrongs of the Iraq war, but lets face some home truths here. A tyrant had been removed and what did the Iraqi people do with that freedom? Start to kill each other in the thousands. You only have to go back to the Firt Iraq War where we went to stop Saddam from his invasion of Kuwait, which led to an uprising which started from Basra, where up to 200,000 were killed. So this deep seated hatred went back years and the biggest mistake of the Iraq conflict was not realising the possible consequences of this.

So again how is it a people when given the chance of a new start instead restart up centries of hatred by killing each other and do you hear from many Muslims including yourself the wrongs of this and why they wasted the chance to build a new chance for the people of Iraq. You can blame the west for what was rightly for a war that had no justification, but there is no justifcation for the violence committed by the warring Muslim Shia and Sunni factions that you and many Muslims are silent on. Instead the hate is directed at the west. What you also fail to grasp is this civil war would have come to pass anyway, without Saddam being removed, as the Arab springs would have come to Iraq and we would no doubt be see just like as with Assad, Saddam clinging to power to segements of Iraq with countless thousands dead. You will find many countries that have been freed from oppresion take the opportunity and rebuild their natioins, look at Germany, Japan for example, so ask yourself why is it that Iraq could not?

This is what is wrong and that how at every turn what is being ignored is the countless violence bwteen the opposing religious and ethnic divisions in the Middle East, of which this hatred is far older than any colonialism to the area and its time you and other Muslims recognised this and stopped excusing it at every turn. The recent attacks by France claimed zero civillian casulaties and they are there to help rid the area of what can only be descrive as the most barbaric group of people since the Nazis. I mean seriously the attitude stinks that we are not meant to help people in Syria, would be like saying we should have never come to the aid of Poland, when they were attacked by Germany. It is this belief taught that is in the minds of many Muslims, more than anything of the West out to destroy Islam that is so easily being then turned to make some commit to violence as the facts is many Muslims believe this poor indoctrination. That is how and why you see Muslims here and in the west who have already been susceptible to indoctrination of hate against the west turn to violence. Without this constant dogma made, would many Muslims be easily taken in by ISIS etc? No, but they already have a an incorrect hateful view of the west which where the fundemental problems are and at every turn there is constant denial to this.

I mean seriously last year is the stats for terrorsm:

More people were killed by terror in 2014 than in any other year, according to the The Institute for Economics and Peace’s global terrorism index. The IEP report was picked by Sky News and a few other papers. A few takeaways:

– Deaths from terrorism increased 80% last year to the highest level ever, with 32,658 people killed, compared to 18,111 in 2013.

– Boko Haram and ISIL were jointly responsible for 51% of all claimed global fatalities in 2014.

– 78% of all deaths and 57% of all attacks occurred in just five countries: Afghanistan, Iraq, Nigeria, Pakistan and Syria.

3 of these countries have had no invasion by the west of which one of these 3 has only 2 have seen help with bombings against ISIS and the Taliban, but again most of the violence is against Muslims in all 5 and these is a deafening silence by Muslims on this. How on earth and why you and other Muslims are not speaking out of the fact this is clearly not the west that is causing this violence, when it is fundementally hate directed from Muslin extremist groups. You can make all the excuses you like, but lets have a reality check. Afghanistan was to help the Northern Alliance and should have been suppoprted removing the Taliban, the same taliban that had some of the worst crimes against humanity. What happens, instead the Taliban are elevated as better than the allies, as narrative is beng promoited of supposed claims to crimes by US soldiers as if being worse than years of murder, rape, stonnings, child marriage and rape, forced marriage, denial of education, female and homosexual persecution. How on earth can a narrative place the western allies who help remove this been seen as far wrose?

You need to take a reality check, becuase as seen we see again Muslims and some lefties more concerned over that there might be some civillian casulatues to a group of people they claim are not Muslim but clearly view as Muslim and this again is another fundemental problem in Islam as it is in the other Abrahamic faiths when the religiions is literally viewed. That of viewing believers as brothers and sisters, a religious racism that places believers of a higher status no matter what evils they commit to those who are non believers. Its time you stopped denying simple facts that show how not only is the religion being used by central tennats within that faith but it is many Muslims themselves who even though not extremists are buying into a poor narrative that is essentially the same view by the extremists. Hence why it does not take much to play on the vunerable Muslims who already perceive this to help turn them to violence.

Its time Muslims stopped looking to blame others for what is fundemtally countless problems within their own faith and how little is being done to stem such extremist beliefs, because the reality is most are being taught a fabricated perceived wrong done to them. I mean this is viewed far worse than the countless atrocities done daily by Muslims on Muslims themselves. That is so unbalanced and wrong on every level and again it is because of the narrative that is being spewed out to Muslims. That is why we see little so far to stem the rise of extremism. As long as many Muslims wrongly deny the countless violence done to Muslims by Muslims and seek to continue to blame the west, when the problems stem fundemntally in their faith, then more and more innocent people are going to die, because of the irresponsibility of Muslims who deny the truth. Fundementally most of all they fear Isalm losing its control on societies of which is another reason why there has been a rise to so much extremsim.

Just for once I would like to see some honesty, nobody denies that western foreign policy has not helped and created anger, but how this is viewed and blamed being seen as farworse than the countles Muslims violence/attrocities against Muslims, Christians, Jews, Kurds ect, is not only burying your head in the sand, but fundementally denying the truth. Untill Muslims recognise that fundementally the problems stem from the many centuries old feuding relgious and ethnic groups, then millions more will suffer and it will get to the point where the west will have had enough. Then you have the danger of the rise of more far right groups obtaining power of which I dread to think what would happen if we see another return of the far right in Europe.

by veya_victaous Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:56 am

Eilzel wrote:Then the uneducated hill shepherds with their AKs will be bombed to hell all the more.

Terror attacks, even twice a year, will not win against countries that can drop 20 bombs a go on an entire training facility then drop some more the day after.

No, but convincing people they are the lesser evil will.
bombing will not finish it as it kills too many innocents.
which gives ISIS a hand in the war for hearts and minds.

LBC's Nick Ferrari Tells Muslim Who Opposes British Foreign Policy To Leave The UK QaA4f2Y

LBC's Nick Ferrari Tells Muslim Who Opposes British Foreign Policy To Leave The UK QaA4f2Y

LBC's Nick Ferrari Tells Muslim Who Opposes British Foreign Policy To Leave The UK WdG6L45

ISIS can only achieve victory by the hearts and minds as it stand no chance militarily.
And the west is terrible a winning hearts and minds because we are not honest about our selves.
We believe our own propaganda. We need to be honest and say hey we are sometimes pricks but we are better than them
and maybe we can treat the rest of the 3rd world a little better to prevent it in the future

We are not innocent. we are not being attacked out of no where. this is the exact sort of consequence Bush was warned about.

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:03 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Then the uneducated hill shepherds with their AKs will be bombed to hell all the more.

Terror attacks, even twice a year, will not win against countries that can drop 20 bombs a go on an entire training facility then drop some more the day after.

No, but convincing people they are the lesser evil will.
bombing will not finish it as it kills too many innocents.
which gives ISIS a hand in the war for hearts and minds.

ISIS can only achieve victory by the hearts and minds as it stand no chance militarily.
And the west is terrible a winning hearts and minds because we are not honest about our selves.
We believe our own propaganda. We need to be honest and say hey we are sometimes pricks but we are better than them
and maybe we can treat the rest of the 3rd world a little better to prevent it in the future

We are not innocent. we are not being attacked out of no where. this is the exact sort of consequence Bush was warned about.

In war there is always going to be casulaties Veya and you cannot hold your hand behind your back in defeating an enemy which has no care or value for life. We are talking about a group that enslaves women and children and rape them, throws homosexuals off buildings, executes countless by beaheading them and who have reservations about some civillian casulaties.
Sorry we did not overcome the evils of the likes of Nazism, by not thinking there would be some collateral damage, which is inevitable. Its also no good like I say ignoring the fundemental fact that it is Muslims killing Muslims in the main, or maybe you want us to just allow them to kill each other.
Its time you need to ask yourself what is the worse scenario here.
Some civillian casulaties or millions more suffering because we continue to sit back when we can do something.
Sorry the tired old excuses do not cut it anymore, when fundementally we are excusing barbaric groups to continue violence and who will continue to do so if unchecked. What needs to also happen is that Muslims start to view violence against them by Muslims as completely wrong, but they view any help by the west as far worse. That is fundementally wrong.

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:16 am

Catch you later Veya, as have an early start, long jouney ahead, but like in my previous post many people are mssing so many points and my main point is to help change things that are so wrong in the narrtive being promoted all the time which clearly ignores many fundemntal problems.

Laters

by veya_victaous Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:41 am

I would allow them to kill each other actually, as at this point a strategic victory is too difficult with too great a risk of allowing ISIS a ideological victory which would set this back another generation.

they want us to engage them so they can show our aggression. we don't actually need to, we can use alternative methods to reduce their capacity to harm us.
the Thing is they cant win if we don't show overt aggression, they need the collateral damage to further their cause with other Muslims.

We can win ideological Victories through dealing with refugees humanly. we already have economic and military dominance. If we could kill an Idea with bullets and bombs this problem would not exist.
We need to win hearts and minds, we need to work out how to stop fundamentalist being able to recruit the disaffected.. the most obvious answer to me is to try and stop people becoming disaffected in the first place.

we can fight their hate by giving the kids they want to recruit hope.

by veya_victaous Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:52 am

what are the flowers and candles in not a representation of our communities, our care and our cult of life.

Bombs and bullets can kill flesh but not ideals, that is true both of us and isis.
Do not let the ideals of western freedom fairness and civilization be killed....
After all we have champagne
LBC's Nick Ferrari Tells Muslim Who Opposes British Foreign Policy To Leave The UK 4fdbcc5c977565af0011156a2ba67adfb741d15a

LBC's Nick Ferrari Tells Muslim Who Opposes British Foreign Policy To Leave The UK 4fdbcc5c977565af0011156a2ba67adfb741d15a

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:05 am

But Veya your view to allow them to kill each other means thousands of innocents suffering, enslavement, child abuse, rape, beheadings, stonnings etc. I would rather the west took out them by military means, where there was minimal civillian casulaties. By retrreating from the scene when we are there already, you are handing them a psychological victory that terror is a successful means to pull back enemy forces on its frontlines. That would be a disater and would further give the beliefe they can carry out more attacks, without fear of any reprisal.
Do you really think that it is going to have any effect on ISIS that the west shows Humanitarian means with the refugees?
Seriously?
What needs to be done is the Muslim world stop seeking to blame others for what is fundemntally a Muslim problem. Where they stop looking to blame the west for where in many cases they have tried to help and instead rightly direct their anger at the extremist groups and those countries funding their terrorist acts. I mean look at the Iraq insurgency, which denied the people of Iraq the chance to build up a new nation. You had both sunni and shia miliias funded by the Saudis and Iranians. How many were killed with suicide bombings and do you see any anger and blame pointed at these groups by many Muslims?

No

Instead you see blame centred on the US and West because it fits a narrative that many Muslims share with these extremists groups that the west is out to destroy islam. This is the point whether a Muslims is an extremist of not the vast majority believe this falsified narrative and it is what is the problem behind the rise of extremists, because Muslims failed to blame the people who were actually carry out these attacks.

Until the Muslim world start to stop blaming others for what is fundementally problems that are created in the Muslim world then the extremists will continue to grow. If you have Muslims disassociate themselves from this narrative then they have less and less of a pool of Muslims to draw from to recruit.

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:32 am

Also the belief over the Iraq war being over oil is utterly false when you look at the facts.
It is again a story that the left and Muslims hinge on as again a way to blame the western powers. If anything Bush was one of the worst Presidents in history and it had more to do with his incompetance than anything else, but it was never about oil.

If the Iraq war was about Oil, then America ended up with less oil from Iraq than they did whilst Iraq was under sanctions. They gained one of the major contracts where in fact the majority went to the likes of China, Russia, Norway and France. I mean now the US is the biggest producer of oil and you could argue that it went to war to disrupt the Iraq supply to ensure it became the laeding supplier, but even that makes little sense when the Sanctions restricted Iraq and thus the US would have never needed to invade for them to then overtake in production. Not only that you just have to look at the stats of oil where the biggest exporters to the US is from Canada and Latin America, with the total persian gulf supplying the US in 2012 12% of their oil. Now you tell me how on earth is that a war that seeks to steal oil or even control it when in 2012 before the ISIS conflict the US received from Iraq 14 million barrels of oil from Iraq, around 4.8% of their total imports, which is vastly less than the US was receiving from Iraq when they were under sanctions.

Not only this the biggest group the oil groups in the US did not favour a war in Iraq and favoured lifting sanctions, so I fial to see why the left and Muslims alike still peddal this falsehood about the Iraq war.
Why they cannot accept the fact Bush was just an incompetant idiot, who should have never held office.

by Fuzzy Zack Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:46 am

Didge wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:Did we or did we don't invade Iraq to steal their oil?

Isn't that foreign policy?

Isn't that the motive the 7/7 suicide bomber gave in his video tape?

Let's not pretend we are there to liberate anyone. The west has oil and natural gas interests in Syria #genieOil

Again justifying terrorism where there is no means to justify.

3 of the 7/7 bombers were British born and one a convert they were angered at supposed claims to crimes against Muslims, so the motivation was born from only one connection, Islam. It is because of a central teachings of Islam which were used to motovate them to carry out these attacks. A claim to attack Muslim lands, and thus allowing a justification to retaliation, a call to jihad and Martydom. All 3 are central Islamic teachings in the Quran and what is used by the extremists to motivate such suicide attacks and there is no denying that are central to the Islamic faith. No matter if argued if it is argued it is wrong to take innocent life. As seen it is easily able to use to push some Muslims who alreay have been taught constantly of a unfounded claim of a crusade against Islam. They would have never blown themselves up if not for a constant narative which is conatntly promoted to Muslims. Which the majority of Muslims, extremist and non-extremist alike believe themselves, of which is a view of incorrectly of a crusade againt Islam.

This is what people are failing to grasp at every turn. Falsifications on a view that America is the Great Satan and lying that the west is out to destroy Islam and where people died in Iraq. Ignoring the fact most of which came from insurrection from opposing Muslim groups. Who's hatred of each other had been going on for centuries. Not only that it had been throughout the reign of Saddam that many had sufferted to the tune of half a million dead indirectly and directly through persecution and wars. We can all argue all day long about the rights and wrongs of the Iraq war, but lets face some home truths here. A tyrant had been removed and what did the Iraqi people do with that freedom? Start to kill each other in the thousands. You only have to go back to the Firt Iraq War where we went to stop Saddam from his invasion of Kuwait, which led to an uprising which started from Basra, where up to 200,000 were killed. So this deep seated hatred went back years and the biggest mistake of the Iraq conflict was not realising the possible consequences of this.

So again how is it a people when given the chance of a new start instead restart up centries of hatred by killing each other and do you hear from many Muslims including yourself the wrongs of this and why they wasted the chance to build a new chance for the people of Iraq. You can blame the west for what was rightly for a war that had no justification, but there is no justifcation for the violence committed by the warring Muslim Shia and Sunni factions that you and many Muslims are silent on. Instead the hate is directed at the west. What you also fail to grasp is this civil war would have come to pass anyway, without Saddam being removed, as the Arab springs would have come to Iraq and we would no doubt be see just like as with Assad, Saddam clinging to power to segements of Iraq with countless thousands dead. You will find many countries that have been freed from oppresion take the opportunity and rebuild their natioins, look at Germany, Japan for example, so ask yourself why is it that Iraq could not?

This is what is wrong and that how at every turn what is being ignored is the countless violence bwteen the opposing religious and ethnic divisions in the Middle East, of which this hatred is far older than any colonialism to the area and its time you and other Muslims recognised this and stopped excusing it at every turn. The recent attacks by France claimed zero civillian casulaties and they are there to help rid the area of what can only be descrive as the most barbaric group of people since the Nazis. I mean seriously the attitude stinks that we are not meant to help people in Syria, would be like saying we should have never come to the aid of Poland, when they were attacked by Germany. It is this belief taught that is in the minds of many Muslims, more than anything of the West out to destroy Islam that is so easily being then turned to make some commit to violence as the facts is many Muslims believe this poor indoctrination. That is how and why you see Muslims here and in the west who have already been susceptible to indoctrination of hate against the west turn to violence. Without this constant dogma made, would many Muslims be easily taken in by ISIS etc? No, but they already have a an incorrect hateful view of the west which where the fundemental problems are and at every turn there is constant denial to this.

I mean seriously last year is the stats for terrorsm:

More people were killed by terror in 2014 than in any other year, according to the The Institute for Economics and Peace’s global terrorism index. The IEP report was picked by Sky News and a few other papers. A few takeaways:

– Deaths from terrorism increased 80% last year to the highest level ever, with 32,658 people killed, compared to 18,111 in 2013.

– Boko Haram and ISIL were jointly responsible for 51% of all claimed global fatalities in 2014.

– 78% of all deaths and 57% of all attacks occurred in just five countries: Afghanistan, Iraq, Nigeria, Pakistan and Syria.

3 of these countries have had no invasion by the west of which one of these 3 has only 2 have seen help with bombings against ISIS and the Taliban, but again most of the violence is against Muslims in all 5 and these is a deafening silence by Muslims on this. How on earth and why you and other Muslims are not speaking out of the fact this is clearly not the west that is causing this violence, when it is fundementally hate directed from Muslin extremist groups. You can make all the excuses you like, but lets have a reality check. Afghanistan was to help the Northern Alliance and should have been suppoprted removing the Taliban, the same taliban that had some of the worst crimes against humanity. What happens, instead the Taliban are elevated as better than the allies, as narrative is beng promoited of supposed claims to crimes by US soldiers as if being worse than years of murder, rape, stonnings, child marriage and rape, forced marriage, denial of education, female and homosexual persecution. How on earth can a narrative place the western allies who help remove this been seen as far wrose?

You need to take a reality check, becuase as seen we see again Muslims and some lefties more concerned over that there might be some civillian casulatues to a group of people they claim are not Muslim but clearly view as Muslim and this again is another fundemental problem in Islam as it is in the other Abrahamic faiths when the religiions is literally viewed. That of viewing believers as brothers and sisters, a religious racism that places believers of a higher status no matter what evils they commit to those who are non believers. Its time you stopped denying simple facts that show how not only is the religion being used by central tennats within that faith but it is many Muslims themselves who even though not extremists are buying into a poor narrative that is essentially the same view by the extremists. Hence why it does not take much to play on the vunerable Muslims who already perceive this to help turn them to violence.

Its time Muslims stopped looking to blame others for what is fundemtally countless problems within their own faith and how little is being done to stem such extremist beliefs, because the reality is most are being taught a fabricated perceived wrong done to them. I mean this is viewed far worse than the countless atrocities done daily by Muslims on Muslims themselves. That is so unbalanced and wrong on every level and again it is because of the narrative that is being spewed out to Muslims. That is why we see little so far to stem the rise of extremism. As long as many Muslims wrongly deny the countless violence done to Muslims by Muslims and seek to continue to blame the west, when the problems stem fundemntally in their faith, then more and more innocent people are going to die, because of the irresponsibility of Muslims who deny the truth. Fundementally most of all they fear Isalm losing its control on societies of which is another reason why there has been a rise to so much extremsim.

Just for once I would like to see some honesty, nobody denies that western foreign policy has not helped and created anger, but how this is viewed and blamed being seen as farworse than the countles Muslims violence/attrocities against Muslims, Christians, Jews, Kurds ect, is not only burying your head in the sand, but fundementally denying the truth. Untill Muslims recognise that fundementally the problems stem from the many centuries old feuding relgious and ethnic groups, then millions more will suffer and it will get to the point where the west will have had enough. Then you have the danger of the rise of more far right groups obtaining power of which I dread to think what would happen if we see another return of the far right in Europe.

Do you honestly think that I or anyone else has the time to read this shit?

Lol!

If you don't have the intellectual capacity to be concise, don't bother. I'm far too busy to read pointless crap.

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:49 am

Yet more feeble excuses to address the fundemental facts and evey time I present them you continue to come out with poor excues.
Funny you should say intellectual when it was a comprehensive intellectual response that constantly leaves you left found wanting.

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:52 am

And zacks counter to the facts on their being no substance to the oil claims is to do what he does to most of my posts, issue a red as if that means anything lol.
That really shows up how immature you really are, but please continue if it makes you feel better about yourself

Seriously when you educate yourself Zack and stop being brainwashed with the crap other Muslims and left wing apologists give you, then you and others might finnally start to recognise the problems within the Muslim world and stop looking to blame others as you constantly do.
In other words you need to grow up.

Also other posters have no problem having comprehensive long debates, so the question is why do you every time offer a feeble copout.

by eddie Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:56 am

Eilzel wrote:The latest attacks were in France, as were the previous attacks earlier this year. France opposed the Iraq war. They are involved in Syria to help against Assad on the calls of the Syrian people. Now of course there will be selfish interests too- but in recent times, France has done little to warrant targeting by extremist dickheads.

In a nutshell

by Victorismyhero Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:42 am

THIS GUY says it all, speaks the truth and lays the blame squarely on those who we need to root out and deport...
A strong message for the so called "disaffected". Who, in reality are not "disaffected" but evil foul criminals...

NSFW NSFW WARNING ...STRONG LANGUAGE NSFW NSFW

https://www.facebook.com/TheBrizzler/videos/415980765279459/

and whilst I applaud his stand.......and HE has a bit more respect from me than many.....he shouldnt expect a miracle of conversion from distrust to whole hearted acceptance....not yet....but at least I'd be happy to have him as a neighbour....hell I might even speak to him ........

by Victorismyhero Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:54 am

and another...somewhat more thoughtful, and a very good point he makes too.....

this one is OK for work.....no foul language

https://www.facebook.com/KingSageMalik/videos/10153678831547350/

by Fuzzy Zack Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:09 pm

Didge wrote:And zacks counter to the facts on their being no substance to the oil claims is to do what he does to most of my posts, issue a red as if that means anything lol.
That really shows up how immature you really are, but please continue if it makes you feel better about yourself

Seriously when you educate yourself Zack and stop being brainwashed with the crap other Muslims and left wing apologists give you, then you and others might finnally start to recognise the problems within the Muslim world and stop looking to blame others as you constantly do.
In other words you need to grow up.

Also other posters have no problem having comprehensive long debates, so the question is why do you every time offer a feeble copout.

I have a life beyond cyberspace. Maybe you don't.

You obviously are a bit obsessed by what I think.

If you want my attention - be more concise.

by Victorismyhero Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:21 pm

I'll translate it for poor old fuzzy, since he has problems with his attention span

OI...YOU...jihad is so yesterday...STOP it asshole

that plain enough Question

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:22 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:And zacks counter to the facts on their being no substance to the oil claims is to do what he does to most of my posts, issue a red as if that means anything lol.
That really shows up how immature you really are, but please continue if it makes you feel better about yourself

Seriously when you educate yourself Zack and stop being brainwashed with the crap other Muslims and left wing apologists give you, then you and others might finnally start to recognise the problems within the Muslim world and stop looking to blame others as you constantly do.
In other words you need to grow up.

Also other posters have no problem having comprehensive long debates, so the question is why do you every time offer a feeble copout.

I have a life beyond cyberspace. Maybe you don't.

You obviously are a bit obsessed by what I think.

If you want my attention - be more concise.

lol yet more feeble excuses.

Look others have no problem having a comprehensive debate, so if you are not up to the task, then just say so.

I am not after your attention but to show how easily led you are and how you have very little knowledge which is evident.

Its up to you whether to respond and counter my points, which if you cannot just further backs my points

So stop using poor deflections and excuses, either debate or conceed to the points

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:26 pm

Also as to being obsessed zacky baby, that seems to be you and Stassi lol

Zack

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by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:27 pm

Lord Foul wrote:I'll translate it for poor old fuzzy, since he has problems with his attention span

OI...YOU...jihad is so yesterday...STOP it asshole

that plain enough

by Fuzzy Zack Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:32 pm

Lord Foul wrote:I'll translate it for poor old fuzzy, since he has problems with his attention span

OI...YOU...jihad is so yesterday...STOP it asshole

that plain enough

Jihad is an intrinsic part of Islam.

Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word.

by Fuzzy Zack Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:33 pm

Didge wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:I'll translate it for poor old fuzzy, since he has problems with his attention span

OI...YOU...jihad is so yesterday...STOP it asshole

that plain enough

You're just so easy to wind up.

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:36 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:

You're just so easy to wind up.

lol and we have yet another deflection.

Zack, you are too immature to wind anyone up.

Like I say, you just do not have the knowledge to enage in intellectual comprehensive debates.

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:37 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:I'll translate it for poor old fuzzy, since he has problems with his attention span

OI...YOU...jihad is so yesterday...STOP it asshole

that plain enough

Jihad is an intrinsic part of Islam.

Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word.

Prehaps many Muslims need to do so also then

by Fuzzy Zack Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:41 pm

Didge wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

You're just so easy to wind up.

lol and we have yet another deflection.

Zack, you are too immature to wind anyone up.

Like I say, you just do not have the knowledge to enage in intellectual comprehensive debates.

I never claimed to be clever.

That's why I'm asking you to be more concise and simple. But you're not clever enough to do that.

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:44 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:

lol and we have yet another deflection.

Zack, you are too immature to wind anyone up.

Like I say, you just do not have the knowledge to enage in intellectual comprehensive debates.

I never claimed to be clever.

That's why I'm asking you to be more concise and simple. But you're not clever enough to do that.

Well that explains everything lol

Listen Zack, I like to debate, if youa re not going to, then stop spoiling the thread with your immature replies, as there are other posters who may wish to do so

Ta

by Fuzzy Zack Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:48 pm

Didge wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

I never claimed to be clever.

That's why I'm asking you to be more concise and simple. But you're not clever enough to do that.

Well that explains everything lol

Listen Zack, I like to debate, if youa re not going to, then stop spoiling the thread with your immature replies, as there are other posters who may wish to do so

Ta

I have every right to post on any thread.

And the fact that others (apart but including you) are replying to my posts, they obviously have thought provoking merit.

Mass debating may be one of your hobbies, but not mine.

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:50 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:

Well that explains everything lol

Listen Zack, I like to debate, if youa re not going to, then stop spoiling the thread with your immature replies, as there are other posters who may wish to do so

Ta

I have every right to post on any thread.

And the fact that others (apart but including you) are replying to my posts, they obviously have thought provoking merit.

Mass debating may be one of your hobbies, but not mine.

Of course you have every right to post comments.
The problem is you post excuses to posts made to you, which then ends up having loads of these irrelevant posts
Again you end with such an immature comment

Quelle surprise.

by Tommy Monk Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:18 pm

Trying to justify the terrorist actions of Muslims on British/western foreign policy is a totally disingenuous argument and one that can only be made by using a completely biased and selective view of history!

by veya_victaous Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:37 pm

Didge wrote:But Veya your view to allow them to kill each other means thousands of innocents suffering, enslavement, child abuse, rape, beheadings, stonnings etc. I would rather the west took out them by military means, where there was minimal civillian casulaties. By retrreating from the scene when we are there already, you are handing them a psychological victory that terror is a successful means to pull back enemy forces on its frontlines. That would be a disater and would further give the beliefe they can carry out more attacks, without fear of any reprisal.
Do you really think that it is going to have any effect on ISIS that the west shows Humanitarian means with the refugees?
Seriously?
What needs to be done is the Muslim world stop seeking to blame others for what is fundemntally a Muslim problem. Where they stop looking to blame the west for where in many cases they have tried to help and instead rightly direct their anger at the extremist groups and those countries funding their terrorist acts. I mean look at the Iraq insurgency, which denied the people of Iraq the chance to build up a new nation. You had both sunni and shia miliias funded by the Saudis and Iranians. How many were killed with suicide bombings and do you see any anger and blame pointed at these groups by many Muslims?

No

Instead you see blame centred on the US and West because it fits a narrative that many Muslims share with these extremists groups that the west is out to destroy islam. This is the point whether a Muslims is an extremist of not the vast majority believe this falsified narrative and it is what is the problem behind the rise of extremists, because Muslims failed to blame the people who were actually carry out these attacks.

Until the Muslim world start to stop blaming others for what is fundementally problems that are created in the Muslim world then the extremists will continue to grow. If you have Muslims disassociate themselves from this narrative then they have less and less of a pool of Muslims to draw from to recruit.

the fight against ISIS is not a war and it should not be because it should not take that much effort.
how could be destroy Saddam's forces in a couple of weeks but not be put down this rags tag bunch of losers confused

People are trying to make this a War against Islam, that is world war 3.
Sorry to the Syrians but If the West cant do it without falling into the obvious trap (which based on many views on here and in the media it would) then we are better off not stepping foot there.

the only other real option i can see to swiftly defeat ISIS is to back Assad, the Russians are right he is the lesser of the evils. he has professional forces and some local support.

I don't think you can deal with ISIS, dealing with refugees is not to impress ISIS (who are a small number of hill shepherds in reality) it is to Prove to the rest of the 3rd world we are civilized, our civilization is kind, good and just, we will care and try and make the world better. we need to do more to stop the next ISIS.
And we do need to also address our foreign policies.
BUT not to try and negotiate with ISIS, we need to kill them.

by Guest Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:54 pm

If you deal with ISIS then the refugee can return home as already Putin has agreed that Assad has to go in order that elections can be held. Yes it is a war against ISIS which needs boots on the ground and if anything the sooner ISIS is defeated than the sooner the country can started to be rebuilt and its people can return home which will be beneficial to everyone, more so the Syrian refugees of which 9 million are displaced.
That is what you fail to grasp as by dealing with ISIS then the Syrians in time will be able to go home
Its also very much about the blame culture changing which as already stated many Muslims whether etremist or non-extremist there is an industry of blame and fabricated views that seek to deemed the west as evil and fail to look at the problems within the islamic world itself or the fact again much of this is about a fear of change and progression, That fundementally has to change and is a major part of the problem

by veya_victaous Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:23 am

the assumption being they will want to and that there is not a new group after. Rolling Eyes

Maximum reports of ISIS strength is 50,000 fighters.

the UK alone almost deployed that many at the start of the Iraq war in 2003. to support the almost quarter of a million US troops!

At 5:34 a.m. Baghdad time on 20 March 2003 (9:34 p.m., 19 March EST) the surprise^[116] military invasion of Iraq began.^[117] There was no declaration of war.^[118] The 2003 invasion of Iraq, led by U.S. Army General Tommy Franks, under the codename "Operation Iraqi Freedom",^[119] the UK codename Operation Telic, and the Australian codename Operation Falconer. Coalition forces also cooperated with Kurdish Peshmerga forces in the north. Approximately forty other governments, the "Coalition of the Willing," participated by providing troops, equipment, services, security, and special forces, with 248,000 soldiers from the United States, 45,000 British soldiers, 2,000 Australian soldiers and 194 Polish soldiers from Special Forces unit GROM sent to Kuwait for the invasion.^[120] The invasion force was also supported by Iraqi Kurdish militia troops, estimated to number upwards of 70,000.^[121]

this is only a war if leadership is incompetent. ISIS are significantly weaker than Saddam's forces. some thing is suss, this should be a small operation not a full scale war.

by Guest Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:27 am

It is not as straigh forwar as you make out and between Iraq and Syria their numbers vary between 100,000-200,000, many of which care little for life or the value of life and have many people under them they can butcher. So its going to take some skill to defeat them without losing many people enslaved under them

by veya_victaous Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:50 am

Didge wrote:It is not as straigh forwar as you make out and between Iraq and Syria their numbers vary between 100,000-200,000, many of which care little for life or the value of life and have many people under them they can butcher. So its going to take some skill to defeat them without losing many people enslaved under them

Since when has the west ever cared about that? Suspect

as i said something is suss.

by Guest Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:54 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:It is not as straigh forwar as you make out and between Iraq and Syria their numbers vary between 100,000-200,000, many of which care little for life or the value of life and have many people under them they can butcher. So its going to take some skill to defeat them without losing many people enslaved under them

Since when has the west ever cared about that?

as i said something is suss.

More than many nations actually because they actually seek to minimise casulaties
Your obsession against western civilizsation even though yours is very much western in every nature shows it is you that is adverse to that and not your own society, as it is today western scoeity that is accepting of many others, where in fact the eastern is still very much non-accepting of ethnic groups

by veya_victaous Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:38 am

we still don't care about them Rolling Eyes

Lets be honest here we killed up to half a million Iraqis for Oil !!!
like we, the west, would give the slightest shit about killing them to Actually Protect ourselves.

by Ben Reilly Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:20 am

Raggamuffin wrote:It's a bit too soon for people to be blaming anyone but ISIS for all those murders, so of course the caller will have got Ferrari's back up. I see no problem with telling someone to leave the country really.

ISIS are Muslims, they're just not the sort of Muslims that other Muslims like.

That's exactly what the Bush administration did -- if you disagreed with their approach to fighting terrorism, you were unpatriotic, anti-American, etc.

I think democracy thrives on debate, which means allowing dissenting opinions. There's a sad old phrase in the U.S. -- "America -- love it or leave it!" It was really popular during the Vietnam War. I think it's sick.

by veya_victaous Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:04 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:It's a bit too soon for people to be blaming anyone but ISIS for all those murders, so of course the caller will have got Ferrari's back up. I see no problem with telling someone to leave the country really.

ISIS are Muslims, they're just not the sort of Muslims that other Muslims like.

That's exactly what the Bush administration did -- if you disagreed with their approach to fighting terrorism, you were unpatriotic, anti-American, etc.

I think democracy thrives on debate, which means allowing dissenting opinions. There's a sad old phrase in the U.S. -- "America -- love it or leave it!" It was really popular during the Vietnam War. I think it's sick.

Australia Love it or leave it...
in Awesome Irony this was directed at Tony Abbot when he made a divisive speech about 'Team Australia'

it has also become an anti-racist remark as 'Australia is Multicultural and proud of it' and those that don't like it can go.
pirat

It has become the go to insult for anyone being racists

by Cass Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:50 am

Didge wrote:Also the belief over the Iraq war being over oil is utterly false when you look at the facts.
It is again a story that the left and Muslims hinge on as again a way to blame the western powers. If anything Bush was one of the worst Presidents in history and it had more to do with his incompetance than anything else, but it was never about oil.

If the Iraq war was about Oil, then America ended up with less oil from Iraq than they did whilst Iraq was under sanctions. They gained one of the major contracts where in fact the majority went to the likes of China, Russia, Norway and France. I mean now the US is the biggest producer of oil and you could argue that it went to war to disrupt the Iraq supply to ensure it became the laeding supplier, but even that makes little sense when the Sanctions restricted Iraq and thus the US would have never needed to invade for them to then overtake in production. Not only that you just have to look at the stats of oil where the biggest exporters to the US is from Canada and Latin America, with the total persian gulf supplying the US in 2012 12% of their oil. Now you tell me how on earth is that a war that seeks to steal oil or even control it when in 2012 before the ISIS conflict the US received from Iraq 14 million barrels of oil from Iraq, around 4.8% of their total imports, which is vastly less than the US was receiving from Iraq when they were under sanctions.

Not only this the biggest group the oil groups in the US did not favour a war in Iraq and favoured lifting sanctions, so I fial to see why the left and Muslims alike still peddal this falsehood about the Iraq war.
Why they cannot accept the fact Bush was just an incompetant idiot, who should have never held office.

quite right - but oil was partially the reason. Some of the others being, the US Economy is controlled by the Military Industrial Complex and thrives on war/conflict, the west cannot keep their noses out of other countries' business and are only concerned with themselves and use the pretext of bringing democracy to these countries in order to justify themselves to their voters (and that has worked so well in the past Rolling Eyes

), and perhaps one of the biggest secondary reasons was GWB wanted to "avenge" the reputation of his father (with reference to the Time front cover titled the Wimp Factor), he was controlled by neo-con hawks and Darth Cheney and Rumsfeld were the real power behind the thrones and this is what they wanted, and he was gonna git that bad man SH once and fer all amen, so he would be perceived in reality to be a bigger badder version of his daddy, and also he was under immense political pressure to wreck revenge and havoc on somebody, anybody but the actual real perpetrators of 9/11 because how very dare they do that on his watch?

by Guest Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:36 am

On the fence if it was due to the military either based on how much it cost them in the end me Lady. I just think you are partly right it was more to do with revenge of 9/11 and that they were all incompetant. At the end of the day there is still no reason why in essence two nations under barbaric regemes should instead of rebuliding have then nations like Saudi and Iran start off a proxy war with the insurgency and how this is basically ignored. As I say the west has played the part in the mess, but the fundemntal problems stem through a proxy war between Iran and Saudi. I just think what is more than anything playing up to the extremist cause is the narrative that is coming out all the time and they themselves the extremsist think it furthers their cause. Yes we need to lay blame where it is but much of the extremism is founded on a narrative that looks to claim a crusade against Islam, and when many believe this extremist or non-extremist, then it does not take much for them to easily further corrupt those susceptible to persuasion using view that are actually found in Islam to turn people to violent acts. We cannot ignore all this because that is why people have been easily turned, even people who have no connection through their ethnicity, where the only thing that connects them is the religion.

We cannot ignore what is being played out and used to recruit and commit people to violence in the world, as until like I say Muslims seperate themselves from the narative being promoted and all violence, then the problem is going to exist and continue to rise.

by Guest Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:41 am

veya_victaous wrote:we still don't care about them
Lets be honest here we killed up to half a million Iraqis for Oil !!!
like we, the west, would give the slightest shit about killing them to Actually Protect ourselves.

It was never about oil and this fabrication is contoinued to be peddleled by the left just does not cut it and it again excuses the fact that Iraq was free from a tyrant and with that freedom both Iran and Saudi flooded the area with money and weapons to insurgents to fight a proxy war, which was what killed countless Iraqi people
You see it is your views that the extremists love because it furthers their cause and it fails to place the majority of the blame and rightly at the extremists that caused mass suicide bombings in the country.
The nation was denied the chance to build and be free of a tyrnat and instead a proxy war was started between two Muslim factions who have been at war with each other for centuries. It fails to see that as recently as the first Iraq war that Basra rose up through Shias and Kurds and that 200,000 were basically butchered. It helps if you actually know the history Veya and understand all the key elements, because like I say it is people like you that the extremists love, an apologist that furthers their cause

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