It took me six months to get from Syria to the UK. Now I want to live with dignity

victorismyhero wrote:Eddie...you cant...thats the problem

the LLA though are not bothered...let em all in they say

they will then worry about the "baddies" later once a few dozen/hundred of US hve been blown up or murdered "mumbai style"

you see the LLA dont CARE about a few of us...

they play this ridiculous numbers game and place a "VALUE" on each of us....

OUR valuse is much lower than that of any of their pet causes...since we dont give them that warm orgiastic feeling.

Forget "humanity" etc...the LLA has NONE ...what it seeks is that "buzz" of "righteousness" that comes from helping everyone elses waifs and strays....

they are a bit like victorian spinsters with nothing else to do who went round "rescuing" the poor ...not becasue it was "right" but becasue it made them feel wanted....

victorismyhero wrote:Well Tommy...apparantly your ancestors were utter bastards to ALL the rest of the world.....

make me chuckle they do....


whatever happend to the (sensible and just) principle of "visit not the sins of the father upon the children"???

Tommy Monk wrote:Eddie... he already had all the 'help' deserved... only reason to try to illegally get into UK is The attempt to get BETTER!
personal gain!!!


And Ben... we have plenty of our own people to help but continually feel a bit shitty about how we have to tell them bollocks because we are too busy trying to help some other foreign people instead...

Ben_Reilly wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:Eddie...you cant...thats the problem

the LLA though are not bothered...let em all in they say

they will then worry about the "baddies" later once a few dozen/hundred of US hve been blown up or murdered "mumbai style"

you see the LLA dont CARE about a few of us...

they play this ridiculous numbers game and place a "VALUE" on each of us....

OUR valuse is much lower than that of any of their pet causes...since we dont give them that warm orgiastic feeling.

Forget "humanity" etc...the LLA has NONE ...what it seeks is that "buzz" of "righteousness" that comes from helping everyone elses waifs and strays....

they are a bit like victorian spinsters with nothing else to do who went round "rescuing" the poor ...not becasue it was "right" but becasue it made them feel wanted....

As opposed to how much the right wingers care about you, taking police off your streets, cutting funding to the NHS, etc.?

What's so evil about feeling good about yourself when you help someone else?

Ben_Reilly wrote:Victor, have you actually ever tried to think of liberals as people who are more or less mostly like you?

victorismyhero wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Victor, have you actually ever tried to think of liberals as people who are more or less mostly like you?

except they have had a frontal lobotomy???

Like BMW drivers?

and No ben they are not "like me"

they have no ability to think ahead.and live only for the "short fix"
they have no sense of responsibility...even their so called "responsibility to these "others" is merely a self seeking for personal gratification....

EVEN if..god fobid one of these ISIS animals blew up a school full of kids ...they would just walk away muttering "its only a few...live with it" and other such platitudes like oh isnt it terrible ...and NO you cant "do" anything about it.

Ben_Reilly wrote:Victor, have you actually ever tried to think of liberals as people who are more or less mostly like you?

Ben_Reilly wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:

except they have had a frontal lobotomy???

Like BMW drivers?

and No ben they are not "like me"

they have no ability to think ahead.and live only for the "short fix"
they have no sense of responsibility...even their so called "responsibility to these "others" is merely a self seeking for personal gratification....

EVEN if..god fobid one of these ISIS animals blew up a school full of kids ...they would just walk away muttering "its only a few...live with it" and other such platitudes like oh isnt it terrible ...and NO you cant "do" anything about it.

Just as I thought, you're really just a narrow-minded old grump with a vocabulary

victorismyhero wrote:And...see YOU are prepared to condemn me for NOT caring/being against this influx of unknowns

and yet YOU are doing exactly the same...except YOU dont care.....about your own...


now my view may make me "hard hearted and perhaps arguably callous

YOU view point makes you what.......(hint ....traitor)

Tommy Monk wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Victor, have you actually ever tried to think of liberals as people who are more or less mostly like you?

What are your perceived similarities and differences...?



Todays lefties seem to me to be riding around on a cloud of guff,

victorismyhero wrote:these "refugees" have in the main NO paper work...nothing to "spot as false"
False claim, if that was the case the nations have the legal right to retain them

and te plan id to just let em in....how do you propose to "check" even a single one of them...with no paperwork and a good excuse they can be anyone they want to be.....

I mean ...come on didge we keep being told they are all doctors and engineers and such like

hokaaayyyyyyy

I REALLY beleive that.....not......

victorismyhero wrote:these "refugees" have in the main NO paper work...nothing to "spot as false"

and te plan id to just let em in....how do you propose to "check" even a single one of them...with no paperwork and a good excuse they can be anyone they want to be.....

I mean ...come on didge we keep being told they are all doctors and engineers and such like

hokaaayyyyyyy

I REALLY beleive that.....not......

victorismyhero wrote:and STILL you evade the central point.....

are YOU going to stand up and say "yep that was becasue of what I did " when the unthinkable happens....

and will you stand there bursting with pride at what you have wrought?

and make meaningless soothing noises at those woho have been devastated?

and then do the same NEXT time some shitfest breaks loose "out there in the world"?

gelico again wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:



What are your perceived similarities and differences...?



Todays lefties seem to me to be riding around on a cloud of guff,

Cuchulain wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:these "refugees" have in the main NO paper work...nothing to "spot as false"
False claim, if that was the case the nations have the legal right to retain them

and te plan id to just let em in....how do you propose to "check" even a single one of them...with no paperwork and a good excuse they can be anyone they want to be.....

I mean ...come on didge we keep being told they are all doctors and engineers and such like

hokaaayyyyyyy

I REALLY beleive that.....not......

Sorry you have not even address my showing your views were flawed and even more so when you forget refugees can be detained without paper work

Cuchulain wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:and STILL you evade the central point.....

are YOU going to stand up and say "yep that was becasue of what I did " when the unthinkable happens....

and will you stand there bursting with pride at what you have wrought?

and make meaningless soothing noises at those woho have been devastated?

and then do the same NEXT time some shitfest breaks loose "out there in the world"?

Moot point again, you are arguing off a possibility, when this possibility exists daily by people entering the UK, where already it is know that ISIS members have returned either fleeing or here to commit terror.
So you are using a poor excuse to deny refugees from a situation which already occurs, where people slip through the system. Which means the checks have to improve. Not deny thousands of refugees who are in imminent need.
So if the next attack comes from someone who slipped through the system.
Who are you going to blame?
The refugees or the security check system in place?

victorismyhero wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


Moot point again, you are arguing off a possibility, when this possibility exists daily by people entering the UK, where already it is know that ISIS members have returned either fleeing or here to commit terror.
So you are using a poor excuse to deny refugees from a situation which already occurs, where people slip through the system. Which means the checks have to improve. Not deny thousands of refugees who are in imminent need.
So if the next attack comes from someone who slipped through the system.
Who are you going to blame?
The refugees or the security check system in place?

neither...I will blame the lefty liberal alliance.......

those who have advocated this lunacy......

Cuchulain wrote:Well its a good thing I am central right wing and not left wing then I guess, where it is easy for me to show how flawed and piss poor some posters arguments against refugees are.
They argue off some ISIS terrorists getting through when they are already getting through due to poor border checks.
Nobody is saying checks should not be made on refugees either.
German was one nation that decided to life this to allow many in thus German takes full responsibility for its citizens if they have allowed some to get through.
agreed...however they now want to "pass them around" talk about a poisoned chalice....

So again there to claim off checks is absurd when these checks can and should happen. What has happened in many cases is the checks have stopped completely or where there is an influx of refugees. What that means is a nation should then implement more personnel; to help deal with the influx. As countries have a duty under international law to help refugees

victorismyhero wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:Well its a good thing I am central right wing and not left wing then I guess, where it is easy for me to show how flawed and piss poor some posters arguments against refugees are.
They argue off some ISIS terrorists getting through when they are already getting through due to poor border checks.
Nobody is saying checks should not be made on refugees either.
German was one nation that decided to life this to allow many in thus German takes full responsibility for its citizens if they have allowed some to get through.
agreed...however they now want to "pass them around"  talk about a poisoned chalice....

So again there to claim off checks is absurd when these checks can and should happen. What has happened in many cases is the checks have stopped completely or where there is an influx of refugees. What that means is a nation should then implement more personnel; to help deal with the influx. As countries have a duty under international law to help refugees

and pray HOW are you going to "check" anything these people tell you...I mean its not like we have access to syrias equivalent of "Somerset House" is it?
and even the press are showing that they are destroying ID documents etc...

Cuchulain wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:

neither...I will blame the lefty liberal alliance.......

those who have advocated this lunacy......

Well if there is another attack, I will place the blame squarely at the door of those who committed such acts.

WOw didge...how absolutely...........pointless............ Of course it will make you feel better I suppose....but what will that achieve...nothing! will it help prevent more...NO...will it be any help to those affected....NO
AND...we have to work with "what is"........ "what may be" or "what is ideal" is of no consequence and irrelevant....

I could then very well blame the Government for not ensuring that the nation has better security checks/ Luckily our security services are very good having thwarted a number of attempts so far.
So using this to deny helping people in imminent need is not only appalling. Its arguing off fear to terrorists getting through when they already can and do get through to deny refugees.
Sorry but have you called that tourism should stop to the UK?
No more foreign students that add tot he economy?
Do you want to shut up shop altogether and really hurt our economy?
Why on earth would people blame refugees who have been in the main fleeing this violence?
Its absurd and ethically and morally wrong, when its the security check system, that needs resolving.

victorismyhero wrote:

gelico again wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:

and pray HOW are you going to "check" anything these people tell you...I mean its not like we have access to syrias equivalent of "Somerset House" is it?
and even the press are showing that they are destroying ID documents etc...

How do you check anything people tell when they come through borders normally?


ummm...by refering back to the authorities in their country of origin perhaps...at least then you can check they are actually who they say they are (within reason)
In many cases, you will not know what their intentions are.
Some there will be criminal information, only if though they have criminal records.
So again you ignore the fact people can get through daily into this country because the security checks are not thorough enough.
Again look to where the fault is, with the system, not the refugees.

victorismyhero wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


Well if there is another attack, I will place the blame squarely at the door of those who committed such acts.

WOw didge...how absolutely...........pointless............ Of course it will make you feel better I suppose....but what will that achieve...nothing! will it help prevent more...NO...will it be any help to those affected....NO
AND...we have to work with "what is"........  "what may be" or "what is ideal" is of no consequence and irrelevant....

I could then very well blame the Government for not ensuring that the nation has better security checks/ Luckily our security services are very good having thwarted a number of attempts so far.
So using this to deny helping people in imminent need is not only appalling. Its arguing off fear to terrorists getting through when they already can and do get through to deny refugees.
Sorry but have you called that tourism should stop to the UK?
No more foreign students that add tot he economy?
Do you want to shut up shop altogether and really hurt our economy?
Why on earth would people blame refugees who have been in the main fleeing this violence?
Its absurd and ethically and morally wrong, when its the security check system, that needs resolving.

IF, (and only if), you are going to say that ONLY those with cast iron irrefuteable identities and proof of skills (regardless of what those skills are ) are going to be comming here then maybe I can accomodate that idea......

victorismyhero wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


How do you check anything people tell when they come through borders normally?


ummm...by refering back to the authorities in their country of origin perhaps...at least then you can check they are actually who they say they are (within reason)
In many cases, you will not know what their intentions are.
Some there will be criminal information, only if though they have criminal records.
So again you ignore the fact people can get through daily into this country because the security checks are not thorough enough.
Again look to where the fault is, with the system, not the refugees.

Cuchulain wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:

How do you refer back to a country that has many different factions in controls of different areas?
Anyway whilst the world is watching the refugees. If I was planning a strategy hypothetically, by wanting to infiltrate the UK. Or a naumber of possibilities which require the world's attention to be fixed on the refugee crisis which ISIS played a massive part in creaating remember. In this strategy ISIS fighters avoid being with the refugees, but promote a view, that thousands of ISIS fighters were mingled in with them. The majority of refugees in the EU are being processed in Germany etc. Where as if you traveled as a tourist or using false papers into the Uk, then you stand a better chance to go unnoticed. Their strategy would be to divert the threat of ISIS fighters coming from the regions where now large groups of refugees havet settled. I mean think about it victor, Germany has not exactly been a target of terrorism like France or the UK, so why would you follow the refugees if your targets were the UK and France for example? Again refugees coming to the uk from Syria are going to brought on uk ships I understand and those checks can be made on them whilst in voyage.

Everyone is expecting thousands of ISIS to be within the flow of refugees to Germany etc. This may possible allow the British security forces to be lulled into a false sense of security thinking that these fighters will be in mainly central Europe, as Britain has hardly accepted any Syrian refugees. No doubt after the hype, a high priority would be issued to check any refugees coming to the UK from the EU over fears they are ISIS. ISIS could infiltrate via the airports after jounrying from Qatar for example So in my opinion ISIS have pulled off another propaganda coup. They have generated a fear of the refugees to the point Europe would close their doors to them which is likely to happen within the next two months. They view any Muslim refugees from land surrounding the Islamic state fleeing as committing a massive sin. Where if Europe closes its doors many are then forced back to the middle east, which is where they want them. Then whilst the worlds attention is drawn to the refugee crisis, its very feasible that ISIS has formulated a plan to infiltrate fighters into the UK, France etc. As now many believe ISIS has infiltrated within the refugees. Intelligence sources will no doubt be utilized to gather intelligence from within Europe as a priority. Which would take away vital intelligence resources.  ISIS will have no doubt send a 20 to 30 of their supporters with the refugees. Sp some can be deliberately captured to make their claims look legitimate and fuyrther intensify the fear around refugees travelling. While all the while ISIS will possible be trying to infiltrate straight into the UK, France etc or any number of possible reasons that requires the worlds eyes centred on the refugee problem in Europe..

So I think yet again ISIS are playing the worlds media to their own tune, making the refugees become the threat by themselves declaring they have smuggled thousands of fighters with refugees. What better way than to spread fear and panic within EU nations in regards to the refugees. Do not forget that one of the two main aims of terrorism is to influence political behaviour. Which is being achieved by the borders being closed and the refugees being seen as a threat. Nations are being led by fear promoted by ISIS to stop further refugees coming through their countries. Hungary has done this followed by Croatia soon. How many others will follow? They have completely manipulated nations to now fear refugees by a claim they started, which should have been properly questioned to it if it was a cover to distract from their real intent. Remember the aim of terrorism is to disrupt the lives of as many people as possible and now countries are playing to their tunes by closing their borders. What if there is an alternative strategy behind the claim and whether their claim to thousands of fighters being with the refugees was nothing more thana deliberate diversion to cover their real intent but also create mass panic and fear at the same time? Of which I am sure a few posters on here will freely admit they have fallen prey to the threats of ISIS in regards to their claim on their fighters being with the refugees. How these same people are also backing the closure of borders. Where this same posters are viewing the refugees as a threata and suspicion.

At the end of the day its all hypothetical, but as seen from my points if this was their strategy, it has clearly worked by spreading fear and having Political influence. So maybe those who believe 4,000 fighters have infitrated, may want to think and ponder analternative possible ISIS stratetgy. Then ask themselves if its possible that ISIS have possibly manipulated them into believing a false claim about thousands of ISIS fighters travelling with the refugees? It makes me further ponder why in the video Gelico posted that a young make would do the slit your throat sign? Why would you easily allow yourself to be indentified on camera if you are menat to be hiding your identity in order to later carry out an attack?  Did Gelico or anyone else think to question that point? Why would an ISIS supporter give their identity away unless they were ordered to? It only makes sense to validate ISIS fighters within the refugees? In other words to fool the EU into believeing 4,000 have infiltrated Not only that, why would ISIS even inform the world it was sending 4000 fighters to infiltrate? Which based on their numbers. loss of territories, ISIS fighters killed and fighting on multiple fronts, they need as many fighters as they can get? 4,000 is yoo big a force to lose tactically. Hence even the figure should have been question as it makes very little sense. It really only make sense for them to tell of their plan to infiltrate, if their main intention was to instill fear and panic within the EU.
Well quell surpirse, guess what, if this was their plan and intention, it certainly has then worked.

Do you know what this reminds me of?
When the allies were fooled by Goebbels.s propganda in regards to  Alpine Fortress . Now there was plans to move back huge forces into this area, but by the end hardly any units had formed there. Goebbles had even set up a special unit to spread rumours about the Alpine fortress. He collaborated with the SS and SD to produce fake blueprints on construction, supllies and units. Its even a possibility that this helped sway the decision for the allies not to take Berlin. Goebbles plan was a complete success as the allies believed such forces had convered to the Alphine Fortress and that it was going to be heavily fortified.
So Eisenhower diverted forces to the area to cut off retreateing German units trying to gain entry into the Fortress.  Which when the allies did penetrate Bavaria and Western Austria, they met very little ressistance. So the claims made by the German propaganda machine on the strengh of the Fortress had been nothing more than myths and had completely fooled the allies.


So have you thought of this possibility Victor?


Right have to go so again night

Tommy Monk wrote:So how can you categorically state that ISIS fighters are not arriving under the cloak of refugee status!?



You can't and your reasoning is pure waffle!!!

Cuchulain wrote:So I will leave one major point in regards to the claim of ISIS stating 4,000 a near impossible figure as already stated. When was this claim originally stated?

Now not the original claim made in regards to 4,000 fighters infiltrated, but when the claim was first made this year was first made in January.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mikegiglio/isis-operative-this-is-how-we-send-jihadis-to-europe#.swdJ9Q3wVe


So even before we go back to this original claim that comes from near enough the same sources, here we have the same claim regurgitated from January. Now 9 months with clear 4,000 have meant to have infiltrated, for one where are they? Why have they been so idol? Or do they simple not exist being as ISIS tries to draw people to their Caliphate and not away from this? They have not the numbers to send such quantities of fighters as it would seriously cripple their offensive capabilities.
Its worked so well this fear nations have been convinced to view refugees as a threat, the very people fleeing from the real threat they actually lived under. Now are they infiltrating very small groups of fighters? No doubt more like in numbers of 2's or 4's, but they have not the resources to send many.

I think people really need to rethink how they have reacted to a threat that was first used this year in January

Hence why the more you look into this the more I am convinced that ISIS have pulled off a propaganda coup with doing very little. The far right are convinced 4,000 ISIS fighters have infiltrated in, even though they should have been since January and thus must be in perpetual hibernation.