Nabbed Hamas man reveals new Gaza war plans

A Hamas fighter nabbed last month in a joint Shin Bet and police operation has provided a wealth of information on the terror group’s tunnel-digging in the Gaza Strip, its strategy for a future conflict with Israel, and its methods for obtaining cash from Iran, the Shin Bet said on Tuesday.
The capture of Ibraheem Adel Shehadeh Shaer, 21, a resident of Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip, was only cleared for publication on Tuesday.
Shaer, a tunnel digger in the group’s armed wing, was arrested at the beginning of July as he tried to pass though the Erez border crossing from Gaza into Israel. During questioning by security officials, he disclosed a plethora of details about Hamas activities in Rafah, and in particular Hamas’s emergency procedures, as well as its intention to use tunnels dug under the border to attack Israel in a future fight.

Shaer told investigators that in recent months he worked on some of the tunnels and was shown a passage dug from Rafah that led in the direction of the Kerem Shalom border crossing into Israel, the Shin Bet said in a statement sent to Hebrew-language media. The Hamas member provided data on Hamas tunnels in the Rafah area, including digging locations, access shafts, diggers and the routes of the tunnels. He also revealed that a new road recently laid down by Hamas near the border fence was installed for the purpose of carrying out surprise attacks using vehicles that would speed over the border into Israel. According to the Shin Bet, Shaer was personally involved in various types of warfare training, including combat training, command methods, use of advanced weapons and sabotage.

During last summer’s Operation Protective Edge, when the Israeli army battled against Gaza militias led by Hamas, Shaer served in the group’s logistics support division and helped in the provision of military equipment and explosives to fighters. He also admitted to taking part in the military action by placing anti-tank charges and helping with observation posts. Shaer said he was privy to many details about Hamas activities and the organization’s senior figures in recent years. He offered investigators intel on Hamas’s links to Iran and the latter’s military support for the Gaza group. Iranian support came in the form of cash, advanced weapons and sophisticated electronic equipment meant to interfere with control signals for Israeli drones over the coastal enclave. The Shin Bet said Shaer also briefed them on Iranian training for Hamas fighters in the use of paragliders capable of penetrating Israeli airspace.

The fighter provided details about Hamas’s elite units, the organization’s anti-tank and anti-aircraft capabilities, the location of its observation posts and the three-kilometer range of its photographic capabilities into Israel. In July, Hamas published a short video clip that it claimed showed the former chief of staff of the IDF, Lt. Gen. (res.) Benny Gantz, within rifle range near the border fence with the Gaza Strip during the 2014 fighting in the coastal enclave. Shaer said Hamas has altered its combat strategy in the wake of Protective Edge, during which IDF forces penetrated deep into the Strip with the goal of destroying a network of cross-border tunnels that were used by Hamas to launch attacks inside Israel. Shaer told investigators that material for Hamas’s war infrastructure is now being brought into Gaza under the guise of reconstruction programs aimed at repairing the damage caused during the fighting, when thousands of buildings were destroyed.

He also confirmed that fighters kept explosives and other materiel in their homes because Hamas commanders feared the group’s weapons stores would be bombed by Israel. Shaer noted that he had stored several explosive charges of 50 kilograms each in his own home. On July 31, an indictment was filed against Shaer in the Beersheba District Court for being a member of, and engaging in activities, with a banned organization, attempted murder, contact with an enemy agent, forbidden military training, and various firearms charges.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/nabbed-hamas-man-spills-secrets-of-tunnels-iranian-backing/#!

Can't be true Didge, sassy says they don't do things like that, any fighting is Israel's fault!

Why wouldn't they have plans to attack Israel if it starts bombing again?  It's called defence, we have plans like that as well.  Of course, didge would much rather they sat like wimps and allowed themselves to be downtrodden and killed.

nicko wrote:Can't be true Didge,    sassy says   they don't do things like that,  any fighting is Israel's fault!

Of course not mate, all those tunnels where just miracles mate, they all appeared out of thin air.
Then sassy excuses them having plans to attack, where according to her they want peace, which is strange when iot is always Hamas attacking Israel with rocket attacks of which everyone is a war crime. She neglects there were over 200 fired over the preceding months before the last conflict or how Hamas instigated the murder of 3 Israeli's
Someone like Sassy has her head firmly buried in the ground or activelyt supportys terrorists like Hamas. Who use civilians as shields to defend their weapons, calls on them to stay and die when warned by Israel and worst of all build tunnels instead of bomb shelters.

As the knowledge that both of you have, about what is actually happening in Palestine and Israel, could be written on a sheet of toilet paper with a large wax crayon, and I doubt either of you have actually spoken to anyone there, ever, your opinion is totally irrevalant.

Of course Shin Bet have a history of torturing people to extract confessions from people. They have even got people to admit to crimes that didn't even exist.

Strange that this comes up now at a time that the Iran nuclear deal is going through.

The confessions are nothing more than the stuff the Israeli's have been pumping out for long enough and now thery have found someone who they claim has admitted to all this. Of course he gave out all this willingly even to the point that he would put his family in grave danger.

Why on earth would they publish that they now know where the tunnels are and what the plan is supposed to be for these attacks?

I vey much doubt that a young lad like him would know all this detail anyway.

Lift the blockade and the tunnels would never have been necessary anyway just like this one.

+100

Irn Bru wrote:Of course Shin Bet have a history of torturing people to extract confessions from people. They have even got people to admit to crimes that didn't even exist.

Strange that this comes up now at a time that the Iran nuclear deal is going through.

The confessions are nothing more than the stuff the Israeli's have been pumping out for long enough and now thery have found someone who they claim has admitted to all this. Of course he gave out all this willingly even to the point that he would put his family in grave danger.

Why on earth would they publish that they now know where the tunnels are and what the plan is supposed to be for these attacks?

I vey much doubt that a young lad like him would know all this detail anyway.

Lift the blockade and the tunnels would never have been necessary anyway just like this one.

Hearsay and poor speculation.

No blockade would be needed if it was not for relentless suicide attacks from Gaza into Israel, all of you wish you neglect.
Which has been so successful Israel has now stopped any such attacks

We know Hamas Builds Tunnels

They have to use material to build these tunnels.

Which means they are using materials meant to rebuild Gaza and yet both you and Sassy are as per usual silent over this

As per usual you ignore the wrongs and make poor accusations..

Its funny how you take the anonymous tales of so called IDF soldiers from breaking the silence but a Hamas operative and you are suspect and why?

You both fail to condemn Hamas, time and time and time again.

Well we know Sassy supports them here by her admission where she claims its defensive to build tunnels into Israel as a defence, which is odd as their only means is offensive to Attack in Israel and have nothing to do with any defence.

The point still remains why can neither condemn Hamas for using building materials that are meant to rebuild gaza?

Simple because Hamas cares more for war with Israel than it does for the people of Gaza, which only a supporter of Hamas would back

Sassy, where do you get all this information about what is happening in Palestine,

it couldn't be from Hamas or other parties with connections to them could it?

Good grief, nearly spat me coffee laughing.  You don't have the slightest idea about how much information about it is out there do you Nicko, or how to find it.  And I told you I have been in contact with peace groups in Israel for over 30 years.  On top of that there are european groups working in the West Bank monitoring and trying to stop atrocities.  Then there is Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper who do their best to get the real truth out there.  The internet is also a wonderful thing that allows the ordinary people of Gaza and the West bank to film on their mobile phones and post it and contact the outside world through Facebook and Twitter.  Don't wave your ignorance like a flag to be proud of.

So you think the tunnel in the picture is terrible do you didge?

And how kind of Israel to let in a little bit of concrete (and it is a little bit) knowing that they knocked down the last bit they let it.  After all, if they didn't bomb it wouldn't be needed would it.

He is certainly brighter than you Sassy and does not bury his head in the sand.
He also condemns terrorists unlike you.


So I will ask again

Hamas


Are you for them or against them?

You do make me laugh, anything to defect from your ignorance.

Do I agree with everything Hamas does, nope, do I think without them Gaza would have nobody fighting for them, yes I do.  Israel have an Air Force, fighter plane, drones, the most terrifying bombs ever made, chemical weapons, a Navy to destroy fishing boats and and kill fishermen, and Army that kills civilians willy nilly including farmers faming and the back up of unlimited money from the US.  Gaza has Hamas and a few home made rockets.

Now, I've replied, you reply.  Do you have anything to say about the tunnel, other than your normal waffle, after all it shows goods being brought through it.

Hamas are the cause of the conflicts and why so many civillians die, hence why I will ask again:


Hamas


Are you for them or against them?

As seen you have not condemned Hamas using materials meant for civillians to build tunnels to attack Israel, not defend Gaza.
So can we have yoiu condemn this or are you going to avoid so again?

Also why not build bomb shelters which would be defending the people of Gaza with this material Sassy?

You easily walk into a trap every time.

So again

Hamas


Are you for them or against them?


Its easy to answer.


Setllements?

Am I for or against?

Against.

ISIS

Am I for or against?

Against

Wahhabism?

Am I for or against?

Against

Zionism

Am I for or against?

Against because I am athiest.


See its not difficult Sassy

Hamas


Are you for them or against them?

I wonder if Hamas send her money to keep promoting their agenda?

You're a liar didge, you are a zionist through and through and all your posts show it.

So, what about that tunnel for goods?

I have never known such a poster to be such a weasel.

As an athiest I do not believe in zionist, its based on a homeland from a religious past. I do back the right of Israelis to have self determination.
Zionism is bollocks, its dated and now that Israel has a home there is no need for such a concept.


So again, stop being an weasel and answer the question.


Hamas

Are you for or against?


We already know the answer, we just also know you are too gutless too answer.

nicko wrote:I wonder if Hamas send her money to keep promoting their agenda?

She is like many BDS supporters, they see Hamas, as freedom fighters, which is an utter joke of course, let alone the fact they rule by theocracy. The extreme left turn a blind eye to real human right abuses or the fact Palestinians are actually suffering in Arab lands. That does not matter, as they cannot condemn any Muslims for harm to Palestinians, only Israeli Jews, as this is 100% racist hate against Israeli.

Some are honest to say so, but some as seen are gutless.

You are such an ignorant fool, if it wasn't so dangerous it would be laughable.

sassy wrote:You are such an ignorant fool, if it wasn't so dangerous it would be laughable.

So we see you are gutless again.

Hamas.


For or against Sassy?

Cuchulain wrote:

sassy wrote:You are such an ignorant fool, if it wasn't so dangerous it would be laughable.

So we see you are gutless again.

Hamas.


For or against Sassy?

Hamas is not the problem. It is the consequence of the problem. Deal with the problem first and the consequence evaporate.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

So we see you are gutless again.

Hamas.


For or against Sassy?

Hamas is not the problem. It is the consequence of the problem. Deal with the problem first and the consequence evaporate.

Exactly.  And no Didge, I am not going to condemn Hamas, they are the only people standing against Gazans and annihilation.  I condemn some of the things they do with regard to gays, but I won't condemn them per say, they are doing their best, with no Navy, Army or Air Force, to protect the Gazans.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

So we see you are gutless again.

Hamas.


For or against Sassy?

Hamas is not the problem. It is the consequence of the problem. Deal with the problem first and the consequence evaporate.

Dear me that is like saying Isis are not the problem or the Nazi's are not the problem. they are the consequence of a problem. You did not think that through did you?

All 3 are the problem, and the core problem with Hamas is in this case is doctrine around Islam and worst of all antisemitism. They also centre on a religious belief the land belongs to Muslims, just as some Jews do, but you neglect that fact.
If you think otherwise then you failed to understand anything


So the same question goes to you


Hamas


For or against?



So now Sassy admits she will not condem such a group, which means she supports them, even though she had to say it in a round about way. Which is what we already knew anyway. A group that murders people, denies democracy, denies women rights, imposes religious beliefs,  glorifies martyrdom. abuses childrens rights, commits continued war crimes with indiscrminate rocket attacks from a land that no longer is occupied and was never blockaded until they carried out countless suicide bombing attacks in Israel. Hamas is the product of hate that wants to wipe out Israel and the Jews and you support such an extremist group

A group that defends its people does not waste the material meant for the reconstruction of Gaza top build tunnels to attack Israel, as its first point of defence would be to build bomb shelters. It never does, so to claim defence is nothing short of a fabrictaion. Their actions brought about the blockade. They are not occupied, thus their intents is clearly offensive with the one aim of destroying Israel.

I want an independent Gaza but not under Hamas control, but at least now we know you back Hamas and refuse to condemn terrorists Sassy. This is why you fail to condemn any attacks on Israeli's, you poorly think its armed ressistance under occupation, even though they are not occupied.

Look at Apartheid South Africa., at no point did I back the ANC to commit its terrorism. In fact I condemn any such terrorism. I do not personally believe Mandella did anything more than sabotage, but he also was convicted for his crimes and never looked to further this conflict but reconcille and a group with the committed destruction of Israel is not looking to reconcille but destroy a nation. I do not even back the right wing Government of Israel and think they are a hinderance to peace and think it will take a more Liberal Government but at least they still have democracy in Israel. You see I even condemn those in charge of Israel, I am against the settlements and can condeom when Israel commits crime. You blindly back terrorism sassy.

The worst hypocrisy from both Zack ansd yourself is that Palestinians suffer greatly in Arab nations but you are not interested in thst, when it is Muslims persecuting them, you are only interested when it is Israeli Jews. That begs the questions of your motives and if they are very much racist against only Israeli Jews. I posted an article on this and you were both very silent:

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t10995-the-secret-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestinians

Trust the left to forgo liberal views to back antisemitism and hate.

Cuchulain wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

So we see you are gutless again.

Hamas.


For or against Sassy?

Hamas is not the problem. It is the consequence of the problem. Deal with the problem first and the consequence evaporate.

Dear me that is like saying Isis are not the problem or the Nazi's are not the problem. they are the consequence of a problem. You did not think that through did you?

All 3 are the problem, and the core problem with Hamas is in this case is doctrine around Islam and worst of all antisemitism. They also centre on a religious belief the land belongs to Muslims, just as some Jews do, but you neglect that fact.
If you think otherwise then you failed to understand anything


So the same question goes to you


Hamas


For or against?



So now Sassy admits she will not condem such a group, which means she supports them, even though she had to say it in a round about way. Which is what we already knew anyway. A group that murders people, denies democracy, denies women rights, imposes religious beliefs,  glorifies martyrdom. abuses childrens rights, commits continued war crimes with indiscrminate rocket attacks from a land that no longer is occupied and was never blockaded until they carried out countless suicide bombing attacks in Israel. Hamas is the product of hate that wants to wipe out Israel and the Jews and you support such an extremist group

A group that defends its people does not waste the material meant for the reconstruction of Gaza top build tunnels to attack Israel, as its first point of defence would be to build bomb shelters. It never does, so to claim defence is nothing short of a fabrictaion. Their actions brought about the blockade. They are not occupied, thus their intents is clearly offensive with the one aim of destroying Israel.

I want an independent Gaza but not under Hamas control, but at least now we know you back Hamas and refuse to condemn terrorists Sassy. This is why you fail to condemn any attacks on Israeli's, you poorly think its armed ressistance under occupation, even though they are not occupied.

Look at Apartheid South Africa., at no point did I back the ANC to commit its terrorism. In fact I condemn any such terrorism. I do not personally believe Mandella did anything more than sabotage, but he also was convicted for his crimes and never looked to further this conflict but reconcille and a group with the committed destruction of Israel is not looking to reconcille but destroy a nation. I do not even back the right wing Government of Israel and think they are a hinderance to peace and think it will take a more Liberal Government but at least they still have democracy in Israel. You see I even condemn those in charge of Israel, I am against the settlements and can condeom when Israel commits crime. You blindly back terrorism sassy.

The worst hypocrisy from both Zack ansd yourself is that Palestinians suffer greatly in Arab nations but you are not interested in thst, when it is Muslims persecuting them, you are only interested when it is Israeli Jews. That begs the questions of your motives and if they are very much racist against only Israeli Jews. I posted an article on this and you were both very silent:

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t10995-the-secret-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestinians

Trust the left to forgo liberal views to back antisemitism and hate.

I agree with Sassy and I also support Hamas (political Hamas that is) in seeking a two sate solution along with Fatah where the Palestinian people have their own 'sovereign' state, something that has been denied to them by the Lukid party using their armed wing the IDF. They want all the holy land and it even says so in their charter and the evidence of this comes out of Netanyahu's own mouth and the actions on the ground in the West Bank every single day as the IDF stand idly by and do nothing to stop it. Build, build, build is the policy and it's not going to stop.

I certainly do not support the killing of innocent men women and children by any means or by any group on either side of this conflict and I doubt there is anyone on here who does. I also do not support the rounding up of children and detaining them for months on end without trial whilst being held in inhumane conditions.

This story is ridiculous and it's obvious that these so called confessions would have to have been beaten out of this lad. The bit about Hamas fighters paragliding into Israeli airspace is laughable and I can just see the the sight of them jumping off some moutains to float in Israel although I'm not sure which elevated position they would use to jump off from.

Tunnels are a way of life to get round blockades and I have shown you a picture earlier of someone bringing supplies through a tunnel. Do you condemn that?

What goes into Gaza in the way of construction materials is miniscule in what they need and it's a bit rich to say that here is some cement now go and build some bomb shelters so that you don't die when we bomb you.

So do you condemn the Lukid party and their armed wing the IDF who have bigger guns Didge.

Irn Bru wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


Dear me that is like saying Isis are not the problem or the Nazi's are not the problem. they are the consequence of a problem. You did not think that through did you?

All 3 are the problem, and the core problem with Hamas is in this case is doctrine around Islam and worst of all antisemitism. They also centre on a religious belief the land belongs to Muslims, just as some Jews do, but you neglect that fact.
If you think otherwise then you failed to understand anything


So the same question goes to you


Hamas


For or against?



So now Sassy admits she will not condem such a group, which means she supports them, even though she had to say it in a round about way. Which is what we already knew anyway. A group that murders people, denies democracy, denies women rights, imposes religious beliefs,  glorifies martyrdom. abuses childrens rights, commits continued war crimes with indiscrminate rocket attacks from a land that no longer is occupied and was never blockaded until they carried out countless suicide bombing attacks in Israel. Hamas is the product of hate that wants to wipe out Israel and the Jews and you support such an extremist group

A group that defends its people does not waste the material meant for the reconstruction of Gaza top build tunnels to attack Israel, as its first point of defence would be to build bomb shelters. It never does, so to claim defence is nothing short of a fabrictaion. Their actions brought about the blockade. They are not occupied, thus their intents is clearly offensive with the one aim of destroying Israel.

I want an independent Gaza but not under Hamas control, but at least now we know you back Hamas and refuse to condemn terrorists Sassy. This is why you fail to condemn any attacks on Israeli's, you poorly think its armed ressistance under occupation, even though they are not occupied.

Look at Apartheid South Africa., at no point did I back the ANC to commit its terrorism. In fact I condemn any such terrorism. I do not personally believe Mandella did anything more than sabotage, but he also was convicted for his crimes and never looked to further this conflict but reconcille and a group with the committed destruction of Israel is not looking to reconcille but destroy a nation. I do not even back the right wing Government of Israel and think they are a hinderance to peace and think it will take a more Liberal Government but at least they still have democracy in Israel. You see I even condemn those in charge of Israel, I am against the settlements and can condeom when Israel commits crime. You blindly back terrorism sassy.

The worst hypocrisy from both Zack ansd yourself is that Palestinians suffer greatly in Arab nations but you are not interested in thst, when it is Muslims persecuting them, you are only interested when it is Israeli Jews. That begs the questions of your motives and if they are very much racist against only Israeli Jews. I posted an article on this and you were both very silent:

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t10995-the-secret-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestinians

Trust the left to forgo liberal views to back antisemitism and hate.

I agree with Sassy and I also support Hamas (political Hamas that is) in seeking a two sate solution along with Fatah where the Palestinian people have their own 'sovereign' state, something that has been denied to them by the Lukid party using their armed wing the IDF. They want all the holy land and it even says so in their charter and the evidence of this comes out of Netanyahu's own mouth and the actions on the ground in the West Bank every single day as the IDF stand idly by and do nothing to stop it. Build, build, build is the policy and it's not going to stop.

I certainly do not support the killing of innocent men women and children by any means or by any group on either side of this conflict and I doubt there is anyone on here who does. I also do not support the rounding up of children and detaining them for months on end without trial whilst being held in inhumane conditions.

This story is ridiculous and it's obvious that these so called confessions would have to have been beaten out of this lad. The bit about Hamas fighters paragliding into Israeli airspace is laughable and I can just see the the sight of them jumping off some moutains to float in Israel although I'm not sure which elevated position they would use to jump off from.

Tunnels are a way of life to get round blockades and I have shown you a picture earlier of someone bringing supplies through a tunnel. Do you condemn that?

What goes into Gaza in the way of construction materials is miniscule in what they need  and it's a bit rich to say that here is some cement now go and build some bomb shelters so that you don't die when we bomb you.

So do you condemn the Lukid party and their armed wing the IDF who have bigger guns Didge.

Point 1) Then that makes you a terrorist supporter and political Hamas goes against the rights of humans, as its politic is based on Islam. So you back a political entity that that discrminates against women, homosexuals etc. Well another lefty who who ignores equality and the well being of others to back a group, who's sole intention to wipe out the Israeli Jews, which there is a charter of which they have never rescinded and have even backed in the last conflict. So to claim a group wants a two state solution when they build offensive means to attack Israel clearly shows how some people are very gullible. Israel withdrew from Gaza and its settlements and yet suicide attacks continued to happen in Israel. So to claim it wanted to deny them a state is a fallacy, what happened was Hamas ensured they would be no peace and Israel had to ensure these attacks stopped and built a wall to control people coming in and out. This has worked so well that there is now no such suicide bombings within Israel. They are not the only country to have done this and now many Arab bations also have buildt such measure to control extremism and terrorism.

Point 2) Your opions on this being a untrue fails to face the facts that Hamas most certainly has built tunnels and has used them to smuggle weapons and attack Israel with them. A nation that cares for its people does not use materials that are meant to rebuild the area to use them to continue attacking Israel. If it was defense minded they would build bomb shelters and at no point have they ever done so. They have continued to view Israel as having no right of existance which at every turn yourself and sassy ignore. There is no peace fromk a group which does not recognise Israel, where as on 3 oocasions a Palestinian state could have been formed. The reality is refugees are kept on purpose in limbo to continue the conflict. There is no intention of real peace from the PLO or Hamas as they will not be happy until all Israel is under their control.
I do not deny some tunnels maybe used for food, but there is plenty of food and supplies that are sent into Gaza, so the only means for doing this is one of a black market and for profit, which is greed and nothing else, which you also fail to grasp.

Point 3) I do condemn Lukid party as already stated and that Israel needs a more Liberal government. I back the right of the IDF to continue to protect Israel but condemn any actions that break the rules of conflict. Again you neglect at everyturn the death of the people of gaza is greatly increased by the actions of Hamas. Countless times the IDF have warned civillians through text, phoning, leaflets and the tap effect, of which Hamas has told people to do the opposite and stay within their properties wishing them to become martyrs. The people are denied bomb shelters by Hamas of which you speak nothing of and its not like they do not have the materials to build them nbow does it. The fact is Hamas uses civillians to protect their weaponary and where you have an extremist group that rules by theocracy and places a belief of Martydom, you have a group that is willing to sacrifice civillian lives.

UK doesn't class the political wing of Hamas as a terrorist organisation, and neither do I.

Hamas (Arabic: حماس‎ Ḥamās, an acronym of حركة المقاومة الاسلامية Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah Islamic Resistance Movement) is a Palestinian Islamic^[10] organization, with an associated military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades,^[11] in the Palestinian territories and elsewhere in the Middle East including Qatar.^[12] Hamas is designated as a terrorist organization by the European Union,^[13][14] Canada,^[15] Israel,^[16] Egypt,^[17] Japan,^{[18][19][20][21][22]} and the United States.^[23] Australia and the United Kingdom have designated the military wing of Hamas, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, as a terrorist organization.^[24][25] The organization is banned in Jordan.^[26] It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran,^[27] Russia,^[28] Norway,^[29] Switzerland,^[30] Brazil,^[31] Turkey,^[32] China,^{[33][34][35][36]} and Qatar.[37

I'm quite happy to stand with the people of Norway and Switzerland, they are eminently sensible and not easily swayed by rhetoric.

As for the rest, you don't even realise what rubbish it is, because you have swallowed the lies of the Lukid party and their terrorist wing, the IDF and settlers, whole.

The IDF and the settlers attack Gaza and the West Bank every day.  Just getting to work from the West Bank or taking your child to a hospital is faced with perils and indignities, children are stolen and abused, and for daring to protest about it, people are shot.  There is not a day goes past when some atrocity is not heaped on the Palestinians by the terroriests of the IDF and the settlers.  Not one day.

As usual Sassy excuses Theocracy and failed to evern read a single point I made.
Telling me its rubbish and then posting your propaganda videos is not addressing my points when I already condemn the IDF on isolated incidents, unlike where you never condemn any attacks on israelis
You back terrorist scum, who do rule by religious nonsense.
And you claim to be Liberal?
Clearly not when you ignore such a political group that discrminates against women, homosexuals etc.

So againthe points at hand


Point 1) Then that makes you a terrorist supporter and political Hamas goes against the rights of humans, as its politic is based on Islam. So you back a political entity that that discrminates against women, homosexuals etc. Well another lefty who who ignores equality and the well being of others to back a group, who's sole intention to wipe out the Israeli Jews, which there is a charter of which they have never rescinded and have even backed in the last conflict. So to claim a group wants a two state solution when they build offensive means to attack Israel clearly shows how some people are very gullible. Israel withdrew from Gaza and its settlements and yet suicide attacks continued to happen in Israel. So to claim it wanted to deny them a state is a fallacy, what happened was Hamas ensured they would be no peace and Israel had to ensure these attacks stopped and built a wall to control people coming in and out. This has worked so well that there is now no such suicide bombings within Israel. They are not the only country to have done this and now many Arab bations also have buildt such measure to control extremism and terrorism.

Point 2) Your opions on this being a untrue fails to face the facts that Hamas most certainly has built tunnels and has used them to smuggle weapons and attack Israel with them. A nation that cares for its people does not use materials that are meant to rebuild the area to use them to continue attacking Israel. If it was defense minded they would build bomb shelters and at no point have they ever done so. They have continued to view Israel as having no right of existance which at every turn yourself and sassy ignore. There is no peace fromk a group which does not recognise Israel, where as on 3 oocasions a Palestinian state could have been formed. The reality is refugees are kept on purpose in limbo to continue the conflict. There is no intention of real peace from the PLO or Hamas as they will not be happy until all Israel is under their control.
I do not deny some tunnels maybe used for food, but there is plenty of food and supplies that are sent into Gaza, so the only means for doing this is one of a black market and for profit, which is greed and nothing else, which you also fail to grasp.

Point 3) I do condemn Lukid party as already stated and that Israel needs a more Liberal government. I back the right of the IDF to continue to protect Israel but condemn any actions that break the rules of conflict. Again you neglect at everyturn the death of the people of gaza is greatly increased by the actions of Hamas. Countless times the IDF have warned civillians through text, phoning, leaflets and the tap effect, of which Hamas has told people to do the opposite and stay within their properties wishing them to become martyrs. The people are denied bomb shelters by Hamas of which you speak nothing of and its not like they do not have the materials to build them nbow does it. The fact is Hamas uses civillians to protect their weaponary and where you have an extremist group that rules by theocracy and places a belief of Martydom, you have a group that is willing to sacrifice civillian lives.

Cuchulain wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Hamas is not the problem. It is the consequence of the problem. Deal with the problem first and the consequence evaporate.

Dear me that is like saying Isis are not the problem or the Nazi's are not the problem. they are the consequence of a problem. You did not think that through did you?

All 3 are the problem, and the core problem with Hamas is in this case is doctrine around Islam and worst of all antisemitism. They also centre on a religious belief the land belongs to Muslims, just as some Jews do, but you neglect that fact.
If you think otherwise then you failed to understand anything


So the same question goes to you


Hamas


For or against?



So now Sassy admits she will not condem such a group, which means she supports them, even though she had to say it in a round about way. Which is what we already knew anyway. A group that murders people, denies democracy, denies women rights, imposes religious beliefs,  glorifies martyrdom. abuses childrens rights, commits continued war crimes with indiscrminate rocket attacks from a land that no longer is occupied and was never blockaded until they carried out countless suicide bombing attacks in Israel. Hamas is the product of hate that wants to wipe out Israel and the Jews and you support such an extremist group

A group that defends its people does not waste the material meant for the reconstruction of Gaza top build tunnels to attack Israel, as its first point of defence would be to build bomb shelters. It never does, so to claim defence is nothing short of a fabrictaion. Their actions brought about the blockade. They are not occupied, thus their intents is clearly offensive with the one aim of destroying Israel.

I want an independent Gaza but not under Hamas control, but at least now we know you back Hamas and refuse to condemn terrorists Sassy. This is why you fail to condemn any attacks on Israeli's, you poorly think its armed ressistance under occupation, even though they are not occupied.

Look at Apartheid South Africa., at no point did I back the ANC to commit its terrorism. In fact I condemn any such terrorism. I do not personally believe Mandella did anything more than sabotage, but he also was convicted for his crimes and never looked to further this conflict but reconcille and a group with the committed destruction of Israel is not looking to reconcille but destroy a nation. I do not even back the right wing Government of Israel and think they are a hinderance to peace and think it will take a more Liberal Government but at least they still have democracy in Israel. You see I even condemn those in charge of Israel, I am against the settlements and can condeom when Israel commits crime. You blindly back terrorism sassy.

The worst hypocrisy from both Zack ansd yourself is that Palestinians suffer greatly in Arab nations but you are not interested in thst, when it is Muslims persecuting them, you are only interested when it is Israeli Jews. That begs the questions of your motives and if they are very much racist against only Israeli Jews. I posted an article on this and you were both very silent:

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t10995-the-secret-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestinians

Trust the left to forgo liberal views to back antisemitism and hate.

Did I say Hamas should not be dealt with? No, so your reply is rather hysterical.

Even Apartheid ended only after talking, not war.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


Dear me that is like saying Isis are not the problem or the Nazi's are not the problem. they are the consequence of a problem. You did not think that through did you?

All 3 are the problem, and the core problem with Hamas is in this case is doctrine around Islam and worst of all antisemitism. They also centre on a religious belief the land belongs to Muslims, just as some Jews do, but you neglect that fact.
If you think otherwise then you failed to understand anything


So the same question goes to you


Hamas


For or against?



So now Sassy admits she will not condem such a group, which means she supports them, even though she had to say it in a round about way. Which is what we already knew anyway. A group that murders people, denies democracy, denies women rights, imposes religious beliefs,  glorifies martyrdom. abuses childrens rights, commits continued war crimes with indiscrminate rocket attacks from a land that no longer is occupied and was never blockaded until they carried out countless suicide bombing attacks in Israel. Hamas is the product of hate that wants to wipe out Israel and the Jews and you support such an extremist group

A group that defends its people does not waste the material meant for the reconstruction of Gaza top build tunnels to attack Israel, as its first point of defence would be to build bomb shelters. It never does, so to claim defence is nothing short of a fabrictaion. Their actions brought about the blockade. They are not occupied, thus their intents is clearly offensive with the one aim of destroying Israel.

I want an independent Gaza but not under Hamas control, but at least now we know you back Hamas and refuse to condemn terrorists Sassy. This is why you fail to condemn any attacks on Israeli's, you poorly think its armed ressistance under occupation, even though they are not occupied.

Look at Apartheid South Africa., at no point did I back the ANC to commit its terrorism. In fact I condemn any such terrorism. I do not personally believe Mandella did anything more than sabotage, but he also was convicted for his crimes and never looked to further this conflict but reconcille and a group with the committed destruction of Israel is not looking to reconcille but destroy a nation. I do not even back the right wing Government of Israel and think they are a hinderance to peace and think it will take a more Liberal Government but at least they still have democracy in Israel. You see I even condemn those in charge of Israel, I am against the settlements and can condeom when Israel commits crime. You blindly back terrorism sassy.

The worst hypocrisy from both Zack ansd yourself is that Palestinians suffer greatly in Arab nations but you are not interested in thst, when it is Muslims persecuting them, you are only interested when it is Israeli Jews. That begs the questions of your motives and if they are very much racist against only Israeli Jews. I posted an article on this and you were both very silent:

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t10995-the-secret-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestinians

Trust the left to forgo liberal views to back antisemitism and hate.

Did I say Hamas should not be dealt with? No, so your reply is rather hysterical.

Even Apartheid ended only after talking, not war.

So you do have a brain after all and are unlike the other too defenders of them

Well done

Stop with the emotive crap, its reallllllllly boring.

@Didge

Point 1 - Oh no Didge. You need to read more carefully what I said. I said I support political Hamas along with Fatah in trying to nregotiate a two-state solution, something thar Netanyahu and his bunch of gangsters in government have said they will never get. And it's up to you now to show where political Hamas appear on the UK Home Office list of terrorist organisations. I've challenged you to do this before and you have always avoided doing so. You're a chancer mate.
And now you are just making things up because after the disengagement from Gaza, Hamas never carried out any suicide bombings inside Israel so the wall story you are coming out with is just nonsense. And anyway, it's in the West Bank and not on the border either.
And if you knew anything about why Israel withdrew from Gaza you would have known that it was because the population of Gaza within the greater Israel that Israel were always committed to would eventually have been a threat to Israel's Jewish dominance in terms of population numbers so they were happy to give it up.  

Point 2 - I have never denied that tunnels were built to smuggle goods in and out of Gaza because that's why they were built in the first place. People do that when their movements and their ability to feed and look after themselves is restricted by another nation or occupying force and the picture I showed you earlier was an example of that. So if you approve of that then you approve of the Gaza tunnels and why they were ever necessary in the first place. The armed wing of Hamas use these as well to smuggle in stuff for their rockets and I don't support any organisation using weaponry for killing people whether it's the armed wing of Hamas or the IDF who are the armed wing of the Israeli government who have far bigger guns and a massive force of powerful weapons that they have used to turn Gaza into virtual rubble. And how generous are the Israeli's and you in saying that the small amount of cement and construction materials that they let in should be used to build bomb shelters so that people don't die when the people providing the cement are the very people that are bombing them.  
You just made the mistake in jumping to the conclusion that by saying that support for Hamas automatically meant that it was support for their armed wing when it wasn't. And you will note that the reference to Gays was already made in that there was definately no support for that.
So where are your numbers to show just how much food and supplies are sent into Gaza? See, that's just Lukid party Zionist propaganda that you sign up to all the time lile a little sheep.

Point 3 - It's not really good enough to say that you don't support the Zionist Lukid Party when your mitts are all over this forum quoting Zionist propaganda organisations like Memri, Camera and countless other pro-Zionist commentators. Christ sake you even tried to pass off Thomas Victor as a reliable source You go as far as whimpering that you don't support the settlements and that's about it.

You say that you would support a more Liberal Israeli government but their views on being committed to a two-state solution based on Palestine having a 'sovereign' state are no different to the Lukid party. They also support the vision of a greater Israel. You have  even stated on here yourself that there is no occupation and it doesn't exist which is just what I would expect to hear from a Zionist organisation. You continually beat down organisations like Jews for Peace describing them as a bunch of lefties and appeasers. You try to beat down almost every humanitarian organisation that speaks out about Israel's actions including the UN which is just more stuff coming from the pro Zionist lobby. Much of this stuff about Hamas ordering people to stay and not move is disputed and has never been proved. And anyway the IDF use Palestinian's as human shields as well.

You say you support the armed wing of the Israeli government in protecting Israeli citizens even outwith the boundaries of the 1967 borders but you have a problem with the armed wing of Hamas protecting the citizens of Gaza. Where's the balance in your argument? It doesn't exist does it because you are fully signed up to the Zionist cause in so far as you will defend them at all costs.

You worship at the alter of Netanyau's government of gangsters and lick their boots apologising for them. Their idea of a Palestinian state is that they can have their zones that they can control but they will never have a sovereign state of their own. That's what has been offered in the past and even that is no longer on the table. You may be able to fool some people but you can't fool me so next time there is an ongoing operation off you go and take your seat on the hillside overlooking Gaza where you can cheer along with all the others as the bombs rain down but watch out for paragliding Hamas fighters floating in in a full scale armed assault

You're a chancer and no voice for peace.

Irn Bru wrote:@Didge

Point 1 - Oh no Didge. You need to read more carefully what I said. I said I support political Hamas along with Fatah in trying to nregotiate a two-state solution, something thar Netanyahu and his bunch of gangsters in government have said they will never get. And it's up to you now to show where political Hamas appear on the UK Home Office list of terrorist organisations. I've challenged you to do this before and you have always avoided doing so. You're a chancer mate.
Which means you support a group that is a theology based on Islam, who do not support a two state solution but the destruction of Israel and the jews. You can keep repeating that you are a pathetic terrorist supporter and hater of Jews and ignore all the evidence that proves Hamas are antisemitic and child abusers who teach their children to hates Jews. Why do you think I need to show the UK? All I need to do is show that Hamas is a religious ideological group that denies people basic human rights, whether they be women to homosexuals, so why not tell Eilzel why you support a group that discrminates homosexuals?

And now you are just making things up because after the disengagement from Gaza, Hamas never carried out any suicide bombings inside Israel so the wall story you are coming out with is just nonsense. And anyway, it's in the West Bank and not on the border either.
And if you knew anything about why Israel withdrew from Gaza you would have known that it was because the population of Gaza within the greater Israel that Israel were always committed to would eventually have been a threat to Israel's Jewish dominance in terms of population numbers so they were happy to give it up.  

That shows evern more how you either are very stupid are you are terrorist scum and very much antsemitic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks
Maybe you would like to tell the victims here that they just imagined these attacks.

Point 2 - I have never denied that tunnels were built to smuggle goods in and out of Gaza because that's why they were built in the first place. People do that when their movements and their ability to feed and look after themselves is restricted by another nation or occupying force and the picture I showed you earlier was an example of that
You have never denied but everytime I post where they are bulilding offensive tunneks you post soime wet left claim to tunnels claiming to smuggles resources which as seen are for the black market because Gaza already receives all the resources it needs. This you ignore mainly because a person who has never left his front door in scotland would never understand

. So if you approve of that then you approve of the Gaza tunnels and why they were ever necessary in the first place. The armed wing of Hamas use these as well to smuggle in stuff for their rockets and I don't support any organisation using weaponry for killing people whether it's the armed wing of Hamas or the IDF who are the armed wing of the Israeli government who have far bigger guns and a massive force of powerful weapons that they have used to turn Gaza into virtual rubble. And how generous are the Israeli's and you in saying that the small amount of cement and construction materials that they let in should be used to build bomb shelters so that people don't die when the people providing the cement are the very people that are bombing them.  
So that is the first condemnation of Hamas and yet you still back the political theological group that discrminates against women, homosexuals and non-mulims and teaches children to hate Jews to the extent that over 90% of gaza is antisemtic. You are happy to let go your liberal values to promote a group that enforces its religious beliefs onto others.

You just made the mistake in jumping to the conclusion that by saying that support for Hamas automatically meant that it was support for their armed wing when it wasn't. And you will note that the reference to Gays was already made in that there was definately no support for that.
So where are your numbers to show just how much food and supplies are sent into Gaza? See, that's just Lukid party Zionist propaganda that you sign up to all the time lile a little sheep.
That is just you now waffling and coing out with the inane drivel that you continue to do so everytime I shows that you suppoirt now islamic groups that deny people basic human rights, you support a political group that wishes to exterminate the Jews also which is no surprise also based on discussions before where its very plain you have a hatred for Israeli Jews. You care nothing for a two state solkution as seen by your views and claim a group that has a charter which they continue to back is some how a bunch on nice people and you think your argument has validity if others back your ignorance?

Point 3 - It's not really good enough to say that you don't support the Zionist Lukid Party when your mitts are all over this forum quoting Zionist propaganda organisations like Memri, Camera and countless other pro-Zionist commentators. Christ sake you even tried to pass off Thomas Victor as a reliable source You go as far as whimpering that you don't support the settlements and that's about it.
I do not support them, whether you want to be a pathetic weasel and not understand this but I do not support their radical views, like with the Settlment programs. Now I knw this damages your case and makes ever weaker your reason for supporter a religious ideology that discrminates against groups of people but I back the values of people. Memri is not run by Israeli's, and any organisation that shows up the contradictons of the left whether they be zionist or not does not mean I back zionism itself. That is like saying because I back Guardian articles it must make me a Labour supporter. You see the left are so stupid they come out with the most daft and absurd views to make claims over. Sources are sources and if they make a better case than the ones that seek to promote hatred from the left its up to me what article makes more sense.

You say that you would support a more Liberal Israeli government but their views on being committed to a two-state solution based on Palestine having a 'sovereign' state are no different to the Lukid party. They also support the vision of a greater Israel. You have  even stated on here yourself that there is no occupation and it doesn't exist which is just what I would expect to hear from a Zionist organisation. You continually beat down organisations like Jews for Peace describing them as a bunch of lefties and appeasers. You try to beat down almost every humanitarian organisation that speaks out about Israel's actions including the UN which is just more stuff coming from the pro Zionist lobby. Much of this stuff about Hamas ordering people to stay and not move is disputed and has never been proved. And anyway the IDF use Palestinian's as human shields as well.
There is no oocupation, because we are talking about disputed land. There has never been a Palestinian nation and only one was called for after the creation of Israel where they could have been a Palestinian state. You forget they hated the Jews that much they went to war rather than have peace. Then whilst occupied by Jordanians and Egyptians they never called on these territories whilst under occupation to be a Palestinian state. You only have to look at the PLO charter for 1964 that only called for Israel to be taken out and to be made Palestine. So your history is not only poor it si very antisemnitic because it buys into the antisemitism that is promoted by some on the left who also want Israel to be take over and turn into a theology. You say humanitarian organisations that have been shown up for their hatred and bias they have whilst they actually ignore the plight of Palestinians in Arab nations. This is what is com ical abouty your hypocrisy, because ytou never speck out on this which just further proves your hatred of Israeli Jews, Even Zack things Hamas are a problem

You say you support the armed wing of the Israeli government in protecting Israeli citizens even outwith the boundaries of the 1967 borders but you have a problem with the armed wing of Hamas protecting the citizens of Gaza. Where's the balance in your argument? It doesn't exist does it because you are fully signed up to the Zionist cause in so far as you will defend them at all costs.
f Netanyau's government of gangsters and lick their boots apologising for them. Their idea of a Palestinian state is that they can have their zones that they can control but they will never have a sovereign state of their own. That's what has been offered in the past and even that is no longer on the table. You may be able to fool some people but you can't fool me so next time there is an ongoing operation off you go and take your seat on the hillside overlooking Gaza where you can cheer along with all the others as the bombs rain down but watch out for paragliding Hamas fighters floating in in a full scale armed assault

You're a chancer and no voice for peace.

You a re a pathetic Israel racist, which is plain as day that does not condemn the armed wing of hamas who commnits war crimes with every rocket indiscrminate attack on Israel which creates the conflicts everytime. They do this knowing that Israel weill retaliate and then set the scence for as many civillians to dis as possible. Israel does more than any other nation where it phones and texts people to warn them, drops leaflets of an impending attack and the rocket tap effect. No nation does as much as the Israeli 's do to warn people but it is Hamas that ensures the people are cannon fooder for its propaganda machin. You neglect this is an ideolgy that backs martydom, that calls on people to ignore warnings and basically die for the cause. At every turn you ignore this or how they place civilians as human shields  to protect their weapons that even the UN and Amnesty international ever recognise yet you clearly back. You ignore that Hamas builds not bomb shelters but tunnels to attack Israel, which is not defenseive at all, but offensive, as a nation defensive buillds protective measures like the bloackade to stop suicide bombers and did you know that Israel has thwarted 17 such suicide attacks this year? I doubt it. Evertime I mention this you just show further you hate democracy and back a religious ideology.that seeks to deny people basic human  rights. You then have the same mentality of Tommy and think smilies make you look clever and they just continue to prove that you are such the immature child, but hey ho I love continue to educate such a left wing Israeli hater who is racist and wishes to back a theology.






Five of the 17 attacks thwarted by Israel were planned by members of Hamas, five were planned by other groups, and the remaining seven were not associated with any organization. In other words, terror cells are now frequently being established without affiliation to a Palestinian group, but rather on the basis of introductions between friends, fellow university students and/or connections on social networks. Such cells are exceptionally hard for the security services to penetrate.


http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-thwarted-17-suicide-attacks-so-far-this-year-shin-bet-says/#!

I guess Irn thinks they are a peaceful group.

Point 1 - Oh no Didge. You need to read more carefully what I said. I said I support political Hamas along with Fatah in trying to nregotiate a two-state solution, something thar Netanyahu and his bunch of gangsters in government have said they will never get. And it's up to you now to show where political Hamas appear on the UK Home Office list of terrorist organisations. I've challenged you to do this before and you have always avoided doing so. You're a chancer mate.

   Which means you support a group that is a theology based on Islam, who do not support a two state solution but the destruction of Israel and the jews. You can keep repeating that you are a pathetic terrorist supporter and hater of Jews and ignore all the evidence that proves Hamas are antisemitic and child abusers who teach their children to hates Jews. Why do you think I need to show the UK? All I need to do is show that Hamas is a religious ideological group that denies people basic human rights, whether they be women to homosexuals, so why not tell Eilzel why you support a group that discrminates homosexuals?
=========================================================================
I'll repeat it for you a second time so maybe this time  you will get it. I support political  Hamas along with Fatah in seeking to negotiate a two state solution with Israel - something that has been denied to the Palestinian people by Israel. In other word I'm seeking a peaceful solution. You on the other hand are just  trigger happy and someone  who has no problem with Israel's long term goal of taking over all the lands that were promised to them just because the bible told them so and you have no problem with Israel's armed miltary wing in helping to bring this about. And this isn't a conflict to defeat a theocratic state, it's a conflict to establish a state for the people of Palestine.  You fall over yourself with Margaret Thatcher describing her as one of the greatest prime ministers this country has ever had yet she and her Tory government introduced Section 28 and refused to bring sanctions against apartheid South Africa so if you support her and believe she was great then you support all her policies including these. And it's not that long ago that this country was still prosecuting men for homosexual acts until Labour decriminalised homosexuality in 1967 with the Tories kicking and screaming. about it.
If supporting a cause where the over-riding criteria over everything else was that you can't support a cause or a group where they prosecute homosexuals and criminalise them then an example of that would have to be that you would have supported France at the battle of Waterloo and Trafalgar because France didn't have laws that did that but Britain did.
Now where's the part from the Home Office that states that political Hamas are a designated terrorist organisation?

   And now you are just making things up because after the disengagement from Gaza, Hamas never carried out any suicide bombings inside Israel so the wall story you are coming out with is just nonsense. And anyway, it's in the West Bank and not on the border either.
   And if you knew anything about why Israel withdrew from Gaza you would have known that it was because the population of Gaza within the greater Israel that Israel were always committed to would eventually have been a threat to Israel's Jewish dominance in terms of population numbers so they were happy to give it up.  

   That shows evern more how you either are very stupid are you are terrorist scum and very much antsemitic:
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks
   Maybe you would like to tell the victims here that they just imagined these attacks.
==============================================================
No, you said that Hamas suicide attacks inside Israel continued after the sham of the Gaza withdrawal. These are the suicide attacks I have asked you to produce and you haven't done it.

   Point 2 - I have never denied that tunnels were built to smuggle goods in and out of Gaza because that's why they were built in the first place. People do that when their movements and their ability to feed and look after themselves is restricted by another nation or occupying force and the picture I showed you earlier was an example of that
   You have never denied but everytime I post where they are bulilding offensive tunneks you post soime wet left claim to tunnels claiming to smuggles resources which as seen are for the black market because Gaza already receives all the resources it needs. This you ignore mainly because a person who has never left his front door in scotland would never understand
====================================================================
I have asked you to produce the data that supports your claim that that Gaza recieves all the resources it needs and you haven't done that either. And it's a bit rich for you to claim I have never left my front door when you are on here almost all day every day and most of the night and even when you are supposed to be working. This is your life because you obviously have nothing else in it. You surely can't spend any amount of time socialising with your friends and family when you are always on here.  Try and get out more Didge as it will broaden your horizons and help you to become a more rounded person with a better perspective on life in general.  


   . So if you approve of that then you approve of the Gaza tunnels and why they were ever necessary in the first place. The armed wing of Hamas use these as well to smuggle in stuff for their rockets and I don't support any organisation using weaponry for killing people whether it's the armed wing of Hamas or the IDF who are the armed wing of the Israeli government who have far bigger guns and a massive force of powerful weapons that they have used to turn Gaza into virtual rubble. And how generous are the Israeli's and you in saying that the small amount of cement and construction materials that they let in should be used to build bomb shelters so that people don't die when the people providing the cement are the very people that are bombing them.  
   So that is the first condemnation of Hamas and yet you still back the political theological group that discrminates against women, homosexuals and non-mulims and teaches children to hate Jews to the extent that over 90% of gaza is antisemtic. You are happy to let go your liberal values to promote a group that enforces its religious beliefs onto others.
=====================================================================
No, it isn't the first.  I have never condoned either the Hamas military wing or the IDF military wing for any actions that has resulted in the death of anyone - you're lying. And I have never promoted the values of any group that enforces its religous beliefs on others just as I don't support Israeli policy that the only people who are permitted to migrate into Israel are Jewish people from anywhere in world who are allocated their plot of of land in areas that are already occupied by people who are not Jewish and have their homes bulldiozed out the way to make way for them. So much for a group that enforces its religious beliefs onto others then when it suits.

   You just made the mistake in jumping to the conclusion that by saying that support for Hamas automatically meant that it was support for their armed wing when it wasn't. And you will note that the reference to Gays was already made in that there was definately no support for that.
   So where are your numbers to show just how much food and supplies are sent into Gaza? See, that's just Lukid party Zionist propaganda that you sign up to all the time lile a little sheep.
   That is just you now waffling and coing out with the inane drivel that you continue to do so everytime I shows that you suppoirt now islamic groups that deny people basic human rights, you support a political group that wishes to exterminate the Jews also which is no surprise also based on discussions before where its very plain you have a hatred for Israeli Jews. You care nothing for a two state solkution as seen by your views and claim a group that has a charter which they continue to back is some how a bunch on nice people and you think your argument has validity if others back your ignorance?
=======================================================================
Both political Hamas and Fatah have already made it clear that they accept Israel's right to exist with the 1967 borders. And what about the Lukid party charter that states  that all of the holy land is theirs and those who were on it can shove off somewhere else or live under the Jewish state of Israel whether they want to or not?

   Point 3 - It's not really good enough to say that you don't support the Zionist Lukid Party when your mitts are all over this forum quoting Zionist propaganda organisations like Memri, Camera and countless other pro-Zionist commentators. Christ sake you even tried to pass off Thomas Victor as a reliable source Laughing You go as far as whimpering that you don't support the settlements and that's about it.
   I do not support them, whether you want to be a pathetic weasel and not understand this but I do not support their radical views, like with the Settlment programs. Now I knw this damages your case and makes ever weaker your reason for supporter a religious ideology that discrminates against groups of people but I back the values of people. Memri is not run by Israeli's, and any organisation that shows up the contradictons of the left whether they be zionist or not does not mean I back zionism itself. That is like saying because I back Guardian articles it must make me a Labour supporter. You see the left are so stupid they come out with the most daft and absurd views to make claims over. Sources are sources and if they make a better case than the ones that seek to promote hatred from the left its up to me what article makes more sense.
==================================================================
Yes you do support them and your fingerprints and contributions are all over this forum to confirm that. It doesn't matter whch party is in power in Israel they all hold the view that all of the holy land is theirs by right. You support that unresevedly and you use the Israeli propagada mouthpiece Memri to do so..

   You say that you would support a more Liberal Israeli government but their views on being committed to a two-state solution based on Palestine having a 'sovereign' state are no different to the Lukid party. They also support the vision of a greater Israel. You have  even stated on here yourself that there is no occupation and it doesn't exist which is just what I would expect to hear from a Zionist organisation. You continually beat down organisations like Jews for Peace describing them as a bunch of lefties and appeasers. You try to beat down almost every humanitarian organisation that speaks out about Israel's actions including the UN which is just more stuff coming from the pro Zionist lobby. Much of this stuff about Hamas ordering people to stay and not move is disputed and has never been proved. And anyway the IDF use Palestinian's as human shields as well.
   There is no oocupation, because we are talking about disputed land. There has never been a Palestinian nation and only one was called for after the creation of Israel where they could have been a Palestinian state. You forget they hated the Jews that much they went to war rather than have peace. Then whilst occupied by Jordanians and Egyptians they never called on these territories whilst under occupation to be a Palestinian state. You only have to look at the PLO charter for 1964 that only called for Israel to be taken out and to be made Palestine. So your history is not only poor it si very antisemnitic because it buys into the antisemitism that is promoted by some on the left who also want Israel to be take over and turn into a theology. You say humanitarian organisations that have been shown up for their hatred and bias they have whilst they actually ignore the plight of Palestinians in Arab nations. This is what is com ical abouty your hypocrisy, because ytou never speck out on this which just further proves your hatred of Israeli Jews, Even Zack things Hamas are a problem
===============================================================================
Well there we go then a downright denial of the right of the Palestinian people to have a state of there own and completely dismissing the views of international humanitarian organisations so there's really no point in your argument anymore. It doesn't come much clearer than that - you're a Zionist aoplogist right down to your very soul.

   You say you support the armed wing of the Israeli government in protecting Israeli citizens even outwith the boundaries of the 1967 borders but you have a problem with the armed wing of Hamas protecting the citizens of Gaza. Where's the balance in your argument? It doesn't exist does it because you are fully signed up to the Zionist cause in so far as you will defend them at all costs.
   f Netanyau's government of gangsters and lick their boots apologising for them. Their idea of a Palestinian state is that they can have their zones that they can control but they will never have a sovereign state of their own. That's what has been offered in the past and even that is no longer on the table. You may be able to fool some people but you can't fool me so next time there is an ongoing operation off you go and take your seat on the hillside overlooking Gaza where you can cheer along with all the others as the bombs rain down but watch out for paragliding Hamas fighters floating in in a full scale armed assault Laughing

   You're a chancer and no voice for peace.



You a re a pathetic Israel racist, which is plain as day that does not condemn the armed wing of hamas who commnits war crimes with every rocket indiscrminate attack on Israel which creates the conflicts everytime. They do this knowing that Israel weill retaliate and then set the scence for as many civillians to dis as possible. Israel does more than any other nation where it phones and texts people to warn them, drops leaflets of an impending attack and the rocket tap effect. No nation does as much as the Israeli 's do to warn people but it is Hamas that ensures the people are cannon fooder for its propaganda machin. You neglect this is an ideolgy that backs martydom, that calls on people to ignore warnings and basically die for the cause. At every turn you ignore this or how they place civilians as human shields  to protect their weapons that even the UN and Amnesty international ever recognise yet you clearly back. You ignore that Hamas builds not bomb shelters but tunnels to attack Israel, which is not defenseive at all, but offensive, as a nation defensive buillds protective measures like the bloackade to stop suicide bombers and did you know that Israel has thwarted 17 such suicide attacks this year? I doubt it. Evertime I mention this you just show further you hate democracy and back a religious ideology.that seeks to deny people basic human  rights. You then have the same mentality of Tommy and think smilies make you look clever and they just continue to prove that you are such the immature child, but hey ho I love continue to educate such a left wing Israeli hater who is racist and wishes to back a theology.
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I think it's quite clear which party is denying human rights in fact Israel doesn't even consider that the Palestinian people have any.  I take your point about the smiley though Didge and how it is often used to try and make someone look clever. Here's an example of a better one than mine. Have a look

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t10993p50-whats-missing-from-the-debate-about-the-refugees-in-calais-who-are-eager-to-go-to-britain#213519

cough cough and a double  

Supporting Political Hamas means supporting a group tht denies people basic rights.

That mmakes you low life scum end of story

The rest is just terrorist supporter bullshit as per usual

Typical left wing extremism Islamism apologist bullshit not worther debating as just going aroud in cirlces with such a twat

Cuchulain wrote:Supporting Political Hamas means supporting a group tht denies people basic rights.

That mmakes you low life scum end of story

The rest is just terrorist supporter bullshit as per usual

Typical left wing extremism Islamism apologist bullshit not worther debating as just going aroud in cirlces with such a twat

No answer eh? Just abuse and hate.

Irn Bru wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:Supporting Political Hamas means supporting a group tht denies people basic rights.

That mmakes you low life scum end of story

The rest is just terrorist supporter bullshit as per usual

Typical left wing extremism Islamism apologist bullshit not worther debating as just going aroud in cirlces with such a twat

No answer eh? Just abuse and hate.

Anyone that supports politcal hamas denies their liberal views as seen

makes you a very poor person indeed.

Anyway i could not make head or tail of your new comments, trying making them clearer and happy to reply to your post.

Cuchulain wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:Supporting Political Hamas means supporting a group tht denies people basic rights.

That mmakes you low life scum end of story

The rest is just terrorist supporter bullshit as per usual

Typical left wing extremism Islamism apologist bullshit not worther debating as just going aroud in cirlces with such a twat

No answer eh? Just abuse and hate.

Anyone that supports politcal hamas denies their liberal views as seen

makes you a very poor person indeed.

Where does it say in the Home Office list that political Hamas are a designated terrorist organisation?

Irn Bru wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

Anyone that supports politcal hamas denies their liberal views as seen

makes you a very poor person indeed.

Where does it say in the Home Office list that political Hamas are a designated terrorist organisation?

What does that matter then they deny equality to many groups?

Cuchulain wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

Anyone that supports politcal hamas denies their liberal views as seen

makes you a very poor person indeed.

Where does it say in the Home Office list that political Hamas are a designated terrorist organisation?

What does that matter then they deny equality to many groups?

So does the Israeli government and their armed military wing enforces it.

Cya

Irn Bru wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

What does that matter then they deny equality to many groups?

So does the Israeli government and their armed military wing enforces it.

Cya

I do not back the present Israeli Goverment and Israel has many laws that back equality
You are making poor excuses