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Gun-Firing Drone Under Investigation

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Post by Guest Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:34 pm

The Federal Aviation Administration said Tuesday it was investigating an online video (below) that shows an alleged home-made "drone" firing a handgun in the Connecticut countryside.
The 14-second video called "Flying Gun" shows a homemade multi-rotor hovering off the ground, buzzing furiously and firing a semiautomatic handgun four times at an unseen target.


http://news.discovery.com/tech/gear-and-gadgets/gun-firing-drone-under-investigation-150721.htm



I have to say this is very disconcerting for people in the US.
Think of the implications of this with crime.

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Post by nicko Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:25 pm

I think Victor and I are just waiting for one to come flying over when we are decoying Pigeon!
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Post by Guest Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:09 pm

32 g No5 nicko?

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Post by nicko Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:10 pm

I use Eley no:6 or 7s, I found some old Alphamax no 1s [remember them] kick like a Mule they did.
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Post by Guest Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:16 pm

I got some 3" alphamax 46g BB's


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Post by veya_victaous Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:29 pm

authorities are morons
how did they think these things would NOT exist if they gave people the part to make them? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Post by Irn Bru Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:26 am

These Drones are causing concern here in the UK as well in relation to interfering in airspace.

Never mind, your next on-line delivery could be delivered that way

http://www.fastcompany.com/3048827/fast-feed/first-legal-drone-delivery-takes-flight-beats-out-amazon
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Post by Original Quill Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:53 am

In the US it is illegal to affix any kind of firearm to an aircraft, except for Police and Military (and I'm not even sure about police).

So the student who did this, though for a university project, can probably expect a visit by the FBI.

Anyway, that was the speculation on the News this AM.

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Post by veya_victaous Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:12 am

i do agree with some of the OP

it is quadcopter not a drone
drones have automated flight systems that one is Remote controlled

And technically most quadcopter are toys, be interesting to see the legal definition because IF classified as a toy and not aircraft (here it depends on the max altitude) then there are other remote control toys with spring loaded guns, plenty of firearms are sold as sports toys targeted at kids...


Pirker's attorney, the nation's first and preeminent "drone attorney," Brendan Schulman, filed and won a Motion to Dismiss. In March 2014, Administrative Law Judge Patrick Geraghty, in a well-reasoned, logical and scathing decision, granted Schulman's Motion to Dismiss and the FAA lost. The Administrative Law Judge ("ALJ") held that drones (which he referred to as "model aircraft.") are not aircraft under the federal definitions, and therefore the FAA had no jurisdiction over Pirker's flight. Not surprisingly, the FAA appealed the decision immediately to the full NTSB Board.

In November 2014, the NTSB issued its appeal decision, reversing the ALJ's granting of Pirker's Motion to Dismiss. It held that drones are aircraft as the word is defined under federal law and therefore subject to the recklessness regulation. It remanded the matter to the ALJ to decide whether Pirker's flight was, in fact, conducted recklessly.

The NTSB's decision was very narrow in one respect: it held that because drones are aircraft, FAR 91.13, the only FAR at issue in the matter, applies to drones. It did not address "commercial use" since that was not addressed by the Judge, and it did not hold that any other FAR applies to drones.

The Board's decision was very broad in another respect: it did not qualify which size drones are aircraft. So both a 1-ounce child's "toy" drone and a 55-pound industrial-sized drone are aircraft, and both are equally subject to FAR 91.13. In fact, given the extremely broad federal definition of aircraft, even paper airplanes are now subject to FAR 91.13. Yes, there is a manufacturer of paper airplane drones.

As for Raphael Pirker, there was no decision on remand to the ALJ. Judge Geraghty first demanded that the FAA explain its authority to bring the recklessness action against a foreign national in the first place, since according to the FAA itself, it's not supposed to. The FAA's Order 2150.3B (Chapter 6, paragraph 34(a)) makes that clear. It reads:

34. Violations of FAA Regulations by Foreign Persons.

a. General. Legal counsel for the region with geographic responsibility for the investigation processes a case against a foreign person who violates the Federal Aviation Regulations. Legal counsel takes legal enforcement action against an airman who [1] commits a violation while exercising the privileges of his or her FAA airman certificate, a foreign individual who [2] commits a passenger violation, or [3] a foreign air carrier operating under 14 C.F.R. part 129. All other violations committed by foreign persons, except Canadian persons, are referred to the appropriate foreign aviation authority through the Department of State. Violations committed by Canadian persons, for whom legal enforcement action is not taken, are referred directly to Transport Canada. (Emphasis added.)

Pirker's actions did not fall under any of the emphasized language above. He is not an FAA certified airman. He did not commit a passenger violation and he is not a foreign air carrier. This means that the entire Pirker matter, should have been handled by the "appropriate foreign aviation authority" through the Department of State, not by the FAA— a fact that had been argued by Schulman.

In the end, Pirker settled the case that never should have been brought against him by the FAA, for $1,100.00, with no admission of wrongdoing on his part. The FAA got an NTSB decision that drones are "aircraft" as that term is defined under the federal statutory and regulatory definitions, and subject to a single FAR— 91.13 (recklessness). Unless and until definitions of aircraft change, or a new definition for drones is created, drones will remain aircraft.
http://dronelawjournal.com/

Look at that, scammed already by FAA. probably because they knew this was inevitable
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Post by nicko Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:27 am

Victor, used to go goose shooting on the Wash,,a little place called Gedney Drove End.Once met a fellow name of Macenzie Thorp in a pub there, he was with that big bearded actor James Robertson Justice together with Peter Scott the wildlife expert. If you can get a copy of Colin Willocks book, " Kenzie The Wild Goose Man" do so, a brilliant tale of shooting and all true!
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Post by Original Quill Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:27 am

I don't know the answers to your questions, veya.

Why is a quadcopter not a drone?  I was under the impression that drone was a generic word for all remote controlled craft.

Also, am interested: what is difference between automated flight systems and Remote controlled?

Despite the ALJ's decision and reversal, NTSB is asserting jurisdiction because the drones pose a threat to passenger aircraft.  It may just be that practicality trumps technicalities.

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Post by veya_victaous Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:42 am

Drone have Gyroscopes etc to automate a lot of the flight controls, an RC Quadcopter has no automation and is manually controlled via remote controls just like and old fashioned RC plane
 Gun-Firing Drone Under Investigation Cruiser-01lg300

the difference is You stop pressing buttons on the RC or press the wrong button and you fell out of the sky, A drone you can tell to keep position or move to GPS location and it will without any further input.

it is one of those things where the media use it wrong all the time and create confusion. A drone can be remote controlled but is not reliant on the remote control
it is not purely mechanical and has an on board computer.
A drone, in a technological context, is an unmanned aircraft.

Drones are more formally known as unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV). Essentially, a drone is a flying robot. The aircraft may be remotely controlled or can fly autonomously through software-controlled flight plans in their embedded systems working in conjunction with GPS. UAVs have most often been associated with the military but they are also used for search and rescue, surveillance, traffic monitoring, weather monitoring and firefighting, among other things.
http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/drone
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Post by Guest Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:46 am

nicko wrote:Victor, used to go goose shooting on the Wash,,a little place called Gedney Drove End.Once met a fellow name of Macenzie Thorp in a pub there, he was with that big bearded actor James Robertson Justice together with Peter Scott the wildlife expert.  If you can get a copy of Colin Willocks book,  " Kenzie The Wild Goose Man" do so, a brilliant tale of shooting and all true!


Morning Nicko

Have just seen what was once used for duck shooting, have you seen this before?

 Gun-Firing Drone Under Investigation A+Punt+Gun,+used+for+duck+hunting+but+were+banned+because+they+depleted+stocks+of+wild+fowl

 Gun-Firing Drone Under Investigation Snowden_Slights_with_big_gun_YORYM-S364


I understand its called a punt Gun.

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Post by nicko Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:08 am

It is a Punt gun didge they were placed in a small narrow flat bottomed boat facing forward,the "gunner" lay behind it and paddled with a small table tennis like wooden paddle in each hand. They tried to approach a "Raft" of duck without disturbing them,when within range the Gunner would bang his foot on the bottom of the boat causing the duck to leap into the air just as the gun was fired. Some bags were of 70 or 80 duck killed. Not very sporting but these men sold them to feed their families the only way they knew.
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Post by Guest Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:23 am

nicko wrote:It is a Punt gun didge  they were placed in a small narrow flat bottomed boat facing forward,the "gunner" lay behind it and paddled with a small table tennis like wooden paddle in each hand. They tried to approach a "Raft" of duck without disturbing them,when within range the Gunner would bang his foot on the bottom of the boat causing the duck to leap into the air just as the gun was fired. Some bags were of 70 or 80 duck killed. Not very sporting but these men sold them to feed their families the only way they knew.

Thanks for the info Nicko, am surpised it did not sink the boat with the kick back when fired.

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