Episcopalian Church votes overwhelmingly in favor of performing same-sex weddings

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:07 am

First topic message reminder :

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Episcopalians voted overwhelmingly Wednesday to allow religious weddings for same-sex couples, solidifying the church's embrace of gay rights that began more than a decade ago with the pioneering election of the first openly gay bishop.

The vote came in Salt Lake City at the Episcopal General Convention, just days after the U.S. Supreme Court legalized gay marriage nationwide. It passed in the House of Deputies, the voting body of clergy and lay participants at the meeting. The House of Bishops had approved the resolution Tuesday by 129-26 with five abstaining.

The Very Rev. Brian Baker of Sacramento said the church rule change was the result of a nearly four-decade long conversation that has been difficult and painful for many. Baker, chair of the committee that crafted the changes, said church members have not always been kind to one another but that the dynamic has changed in recent decades.

http://news.yahoo.com/episcopalians-vote-allowing-gay-marriage-churches-064849720.html

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:09 pm

so back to topic, we have a lesbian pastor of a church who has decided it's fine to marry gays at her church, well what huge bloody surprise that is ... Smile

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:13 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:so back to topic, we have a lesbian pastor of a church who has decided it's fine to marry gays at her church, well what huge bloody surprise that is ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aplWTXEcY70

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:31 pm

Is heavenlyfarter still running round in circles guffing off at intervals Rolling Eyes

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:32 pm

its the "voices" dontcha know....

you know...the ones in his head....

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:35 pm

mentor wrote:its the "voices" dontcha know....

you know...the ones in his head....

I know i feel sorry for didge , i think the voices come from the bottle as much as his head though...... Smile

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:35 pm

mentor wrote:its the "voices" dontcha know....

you know...the ones in his head....

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:37 pm

you will also note didge that he seems incapable of understanding quotes in context....

hence the post above yours Rolling Eyes

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:41 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:so back to topic, we have a lesbian pastor of a church who has decided it's fine to marry gays at her church, well what huge bloody surprise that is ...

This is a denomination which began in the U.S., has spread to many other countries and has over 2 million members. It's not just one church in the sense of the building, it's a Church with 109 worldwide dioceses.

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:45 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:so back to topic, we have a lesbian pastor of a church who has decided it's fine to marry gays at her church, well what huge bloody surprise that is ...

This is a denomination which began in the U.S., has spread to many other countries and has over 2 million members. It's not just one church in the sense of the building, it's a Church with 109 worldwide dioceses.

and that makes it right, they have gay pastors and gay bishops, it seems they have forgot to read the book they have promised to teach...

the bible does warn about the responsibility on those taking to teaching the word... Smile

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:45 pm

mentor wrote:you will also note didge that he seems incapable of understanding quotes in context....

hence the post above yours

Indeed Victor, as like I say he is not the sharpest tool in the shed and I would have to say in context he clearly is a wrench.

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:46 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:so back to topic, we have a lesbian pastor of a church who has decided it's fine to marry gays at her church, well what huge bloody surprise that is ...

This is a denomination which began in the U.S., has spread to many other countries and has over 2 million members. It's not just one church in the sense of the building, it's a Church with 109 worldwide dioceses.

and that makes it right, they have gay pastors and gay bishops, it seems they have forgot to read the book they have promised to teach...

the bible does warn about the responsibility on those taking to teaching the word...

My point wasn't about beliefs, it's that you tried to make it out like this was only at one church -- it's a decision that affects thousands of churches.

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:49 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
mentor wrote:you will also note didge that he seems incapable of understanding quotes in context....

hence the post above yours

Indeed Victor, as like I say he is not the sharpest tool in the shed and I would have to say in context he clearly is a wrench.

wrench or wench ?????

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:50 pm

mentor wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Indeed Victor, as like I say he is not the sharpest tool in the shed and I would have to say in context he clearly is a wrench.

wrench or wench ?????

Episcopalian Church votes overwhelmingly in favor of performing same-sex weddings - Page 3 3489511464

Seriously, now that was very funny.

Thank you Victor

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:51 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

and that makes it right, they have gay pastors and gay bishops, it seems they have forgot to read the book they have promised to teach...

the bible does warn about the responsibility on those taking to teaching the word...

My point wasn't about beliefs, it's that you tried to make it out like this was only at one church -- it's a decision that affects thousands of churches.

which churches are they ?

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:52 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
mentor wrote:

wrench or wench ?????

Seriously, now that was very funny.

Thank you Victor

any chance you can debate seriously instead of behaving like nursery school kids Laughing

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:54 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

This is a denomination which began in the U.S., has spread to many other countries and has over 2 million members. It's not just one church in the sense of the building, it's a Church with 109 worldwide dioceses.

and that makes it right, they have gay pastors and gay bishops, it seems they have forgot to read the book they have promised to teach...

the bible does warn about the responsibility on those taking to teaching the word...

It doesn't matter if it is thousands of churches that have agreed to marry same sex couples , they are going against scripture and are preaching a false gospel and they are cursed of God aren't they .

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:55 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

and that makes it right, they have gay pastors and gay bishops, it seems they have forgot to read the book they have promised to teach...

the bible does warn about the responsibility on those taking to teaching the word...

My point wasn't about beliefs, it's that you tried to make it out like this was only at one church -- it's a decision that affects thousands of churches.

which churches are they ?

Episcopalian churches -- every one in the world. I can't find an exact number on how many churches that is, but with 2,000,000 congregants, you'd think they'd have over 10,000 churches. Looking on Google Maps I just saw that there are about a dozen Episcopal churches that would be a short drive away for me.

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:57 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

which churches are they ?

Episcopalian churches -- every one in the world. I can't find an exact number on how many churches that is, but with 2,000,000 congregants, you'd think they'd have over 10,000 churches. Looking on Google Maps I just saw that there are about a dozen Episcopal churches that would be a short drive away for me.

No I didn't I simply pointed out a lesbian pastor thought gays getting married in their church was a good idea...lol

i guess god must have told her that...

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:58 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Seriously, now that was very funny.

Thank you Victor

any chance you can debate seriously instead of behaving like nursery school kids

When you lead by example and continue to do so, I will be happy to comply.. Laughing

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:58 pm

Oh, just looked it up and the Episcopal Church is the U.S. offshoot of the C of E and remains in communion with it. It also considers the Archbishop of Canterbury the head of its church.

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:59 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:so back to topic, we have a lesbian pastor of a church who has decided it's fine to marry gays at her church, well what huge bloody surprise that is ...

This is a denomination which began in the U.S., has spread to many other countries and has over 2 million members. It's not just one church in the sense of the building, it's a Church with 109 worldwide dioceses.

and that makes it right, they have gay pastors and gay bishops, it seems they have forgot to read the book they have promised to teach...

the bible does warn about the responsibility on those taking to teaching the word...

My point wasn't about beliefs, it's that you tried to make it out like this was only at one church -- it's a decision that affects thousands of churches.

Right here, HF, you made it out as though it was only one church and one pastor.

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:01 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Oh, just looked it up and the Episcopal Church is the U.S. offshoot of the C of E and remains in communion with it. It also considers the Archbishop of Canterbury the head of its church.

is that the arch bishop of canterbury that says he doesn't believe in the virgin birth or was it another one....

if you get to one of these churches just ask them to look up in scripture what the bible says about what a good bishop of the church should be ?

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:02 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Oh, just looked it up and the Episcopal Church is the U.S. offshoot of the C of E and remains in communion with it. It also considers the Archbishop of Canterbury the head of its church.

is that the arch bishop of canterbury that says he doesn't believe in the virgin birth or was it another one....

if you get to one of these churches just ask them to look up in scripture what the bible says about what a good bishop of the church should be ?

You mean scripture like this?

Ephesians 5:22-24

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:03 pm

The true church of God must stand resolutely firm and never allow the sanctioning of same sex marriages by Christian clergy. No church that takes the Bible seriously can sanction a union between homosexuals or lesbians.

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:05 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote: The true church of God must stand resolutely firm and never allow the sanctioning of same sex marriages by Christian clergy. No church that takes the Bible seriously can sanction a union between homosexuals or lesbians.

Awesome, I always wanted to witness a religious schism and now I've got a front-row seat!

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:07 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote: The true church of God must stand resolutely firm and never allow the sanctioning of same sex marriages by Christian clergy. No church that takes the Bible seriously can sanction a union between homosexuals or lesbians.

Awesome, I always wanted to witness a religious schism and now I've got a front-row seat!

You don't need to be sarcastic with me Ben i am genuinely interested in debating this .

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:07 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote: The true church of God must stand resolutely firm and never allow the sanctioning of same sex marriages by Christian clergy. No church that takes the Bible seriously can sanction a union between homosexuals or lesbians.

amen...well said..

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:09 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

is that the arch bishop of canterbury that says he doesn't believe in the virgin birth or was it another one....

if you get to one of these churches just ask them to look up in scripture what the bible says about what a good bishop of the church should be ?

You mean scripture like this?

Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

that has nothing to do with being a bishop but it does have more than a problem for gays and lesbians claiming to be Christians... Smile

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:10 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote: The true church of God must stand resolutely firm and never allow the sanctioning of same sex marriages by Christian clergy. No church that takes the Bible seriously can sanction a union between homosexuals or lesbians.

Awesome, I always wanted to witness a religious schism and now I've got a front-row seat!

You don't need to be sarcastic with me Ben i am genuinely interested in debating this .

But come on, this is a genuine schism. The Episcopals have voted to marry gay people in their churches, while other Christians are saying this makes them non-Christian. What would you call it?

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:11 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

You mean scripture like this?

Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

that has nothing to do with being a bishop but id does have more than a problem for gays and lesbians claiming to be Christians...

So you wanted to ask what they preach.
They preach this sexism, which would also mean husbands being able to rape their wives. As wives have to obey the husband and cannot refuse sex according to your God.
Quite abhorrent when you think about it how discriminating the New Testament is to women

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:12 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

You don't need to be sarcastic with me Ben i am genuinely interested in debating this .

But come on, this is a genuine schism. The Episcopals have voted to marry gay people in their churches, while other Christians are saying this makes them non-Christian. What would you call it?

what it shows is they cannot be what they want to be, they cannot be gay Christians they are not following the word of God or the teachings in it...

they could call themselves homopheains or gayrelgion but not Christians...

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:15 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

that has nothing to do with being a bishop but id does have more than a problem for gays and lesbians claiming to be Christians...

So you wanted to ask what they preach.
They preach this sexism, which would also mean husbands being able to rape their wives. As wives have to obey the husband and cannot refuse sex according to your God.
Quite abhorrent when you think about it how discriminating the New Testament is to women

you see you are confusing to problems the fact it seems sexist is one thing, if you do not like it as sexist, don;t get involved with Christianity, it's that simple....

If you want to be a Christian you follow the word of God the bible and the teachings it holds, you yourself talk about cherry picking these gays and lesbians are cherry picking scripture and taking them out so they can try to call themselves Christian when they simply cannot be....

So they cannot be Christians they must be something else.... Smile

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:19 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

So you wanted to ask what they preach.
They preach this sexism, which would also mean husbands being able to rape their wives. As wives have to obey the husband and cannot refuse sex according to your God.
Quite abhorrent when you think about it how discriminating the New Testament is to women

you see you are confusing to problems the fact it seems sexist is one thing, if you do not like it as sexist, don;t get involved with Christianity, it's that simple....

If you want to be a Christian you follow the word of God the bible and the teachings it holds, you yourself talk about cherry picking these gays and lesbians are cherry picking scripture and taking them out so they can try to call themselves Christian when they simply cannot be....

So they cannot be Christians they must be something else....

Sorry can anyone translate the garbage he made in point one?

So what you are saying is if I do not like sexism, do not become a christian by getting involved with Christianity? In other words you agree sexism is acceptable based on your belief in your God.

Wow

WTF, so you agree husbands should be able to rape their wives and that their wives have to submit to them when ever they have the urge as you god demands it.

Blimey, if ever there was an advert for the dangers of religion, HF is the best example you will ever ss

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:19 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

You don't need to be sarcastic with me Ben i am genuinely interested in debating this .

But come on, this is a genuine schism. The Episcopals have voted to marry gay people in their churches, while other Christians are saying this makes them non-Christian. What would you call it?

what it shows is they cannot be what they want to be, they cannot be gay Christians they are not following the word of God or the teachings in it...

they could call themselves homopheains or gayrelgion but not Christians...

Hate to break it to you buddy, but literally anybody can call him or herself any religion, at any time, for any reason at all.

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:21 pm

a Venn diagram of HF's thought domain

Episcopalian Church votes overwhelmingly in favor of performing same-sex weddings - Page 3 Radius10

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:22 pm

mentor wrote:a Venn diagram of HF's thought domain

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:23 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

You don't need to be sarcastic with me Ben i am genuinely interested in debating this .

But come on, this is a genuine schism. The Episcopals have voted to marry gay people in their churches, while other Christians are saying this makes them non-Christian. What would you call it?

It all falls apart though Ben when we look at Ephesians 5.22 .

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:26 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

what it shows is they cannot be what they want to be, they cannot be gay Christians they are not following the word of God or the teachings in it...

they could call themselves homopheains or gayrelgion but not Christians...

Hate to break it to you buddy, but literally anybody can call him or herself any religion, at any time, for any reason at all.

Of course they can Ben, the jw's and lds call themselves Christians on the last census for this country many filled in the forms and said they are Jedi in religion..

My point is if they really are Christians they will follow what the bible teaches and reinforce that teaching.... Jesus says "be gone from me I never knew you", so the name might fool people but I don't think it will wash with Jesus...

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:26 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

You don't need to be sarcastic with me Ben i am genuinely interested in debating this .

But come on, this is a genuine schism. The Episcopals have voted to marry gay people in their churches, while other Christians are saying this makes them non-Christian. What would you call it?

It all falls apart though Ben when we look at Ephesians 5.22 .

Why does it fall apart? You don't actually follow and live by the Bible any more rigidly than the Episcopals do.

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:27 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

what it shows is they cannot be what they want to be, they cannot be gay Christians they are not following the word of God or the teachings in it...

they could call themselves homopheains or gayrelgion but not Christians...

Hate to break it to you buddy, but literally anybody can call him or herself any religion, at any time, for any reason at all.

Of course they can Ben, the jw's and lds call themselves Christians on the last census for this country many filled in the forms and said they are Jedi in religion..

My point is if they really are Christians they will follow what the bible teaches and reinforce that teaching.... Jesus says "be gone from me I never knew you", so the name might fool people but I don't think it will wash with Jesus...

I'll put the same challenge to you as to VOD -- you don't live by the Bible any more than the Episcopals do, so who are you to say you're the "true" Christian and they're not?

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:28 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

It all falls apart though Ben when we look at Ephesians 5.22 .

Why does it fall apart? You don't actually follow and live by the Bible any more rigidly than the Episcopals do.

Did you read the scripture ?

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:31 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

It all falls apart though Ben when we look at Ephesians 5.22 .

Why does it fall apart? You don't actually follow and live by the Bible any more rigidly than the Episcopals do.

of course we do, you just don't think we do ...... Smile

you call us for cherry picking but this group you are talking about are cutting whole swathes of the bible out to suit their ideas....

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:32 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

It all falls apart though Ben when we look at Ephesians 5.22 .

Why does it fall apart? You don't actually follow and live by the Bible any more rigidly than the Episcopals do.

of course we do, you just don't think we do ......

you call us for cherry picking but this group you are talking about are cutting whole swathes of the bible out to suit their ideas....

Nah, I've said it before and I'll say again, you only live by the parts of the Bible you agree with. You don't show any love to your enemies, for example.

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:33 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

It all falls apart though Ben when we look at Ephesians 5.22 .

Why does it fall apart? You don't actually follow and live by the Bible any more rigidly than the Episcopals do.

Did you read the scripture ?

Yeah, it was the same thing Didge posted above. So what?

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:35 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

of course we do, you just don't think we do ......

you call us for cherry picking but this group you are talking about are cutting whole swathes of the bible out to suit their ideas....

Nah, I've said it before and I'll say again, you only live by the parts of the Bible you agree with. You don't show any love to your enemies, for example.

You are right if you are judging us by this forum . We might not show it but we love and pray for our enemies .

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:38 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

of course we do, you just don't think we do ......

you call us for cherry picking but this group you are talking about are cutting whole swathes of the bible out to suit their ideas....

Nah, I've said it before and I'll say again, you only live by the parts of the Bible you agree with. You don't show any love to your enemies, for example.

you can say that, how can I show love for my enemies on here, zack wished my son killed, other have said the same about my family and me, I still talk to them, is that showing love, we are Christians we are not perfect...

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:39 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

of course we do, you just don't think we do ......

you call us for cherry picking but this group you are talking about are cutting whole swathes of the bible out to suit their ideas....

Nah, I've said it before and I'll say again, you only live by the parts of the Bible you agree with. You don't show any love to your enemies, for example.

You are right if you are judging us by this forum . We might not show it but we love and pray for our enemies .

Shouldn't you act like it, or does the Bible have an internet exception? Smile

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:39 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Nah, I've said it before and I'll say again, you only live by the parts of the Bible you agree with. You don't show any love to your enemies, for example.

You are right if you are judging us by this forum . We might not show it but we love and pray for our enemies .

amen we are not perfect.. Smile

by Guest Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:40 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

of course we do, you just don't think we do ......

you call us for cherry picking but this group you are talking about are cutting whole swathes of the bible out to suit their ideas....

Nah, I've said it before and I'll say again, you only live by the parts of the Bible you agree with. You don't show any love to your enemies, for example.

Here he is basically saying the New Testament is more important too and we know he did not stone his children to death if they disobey him from the same book of Leviticus. So he is completely contradicting himself about this other church and cannot lay claim to if they follow Jesus. He can pick and chose as he goes along what to follow, but then claims others cannot.

wow you love the old testament don't you... the new testament is all about Grace praise the Lord,

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t10328p150-isis-execute-gay-men-by-throwing-them-off-buildings#201142

He just keeps getting himself into a pickle every time.

Have a good evening Ben

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:41 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Nah, I've said it before and I'll say again, you only live by the parts of the Bible you agree with. You don't show any love to your enemies, for example.

You are right if you are judging us by this forum . We might not show it but we love and pray for our enemies .

amen we are not perfect..

Are you more perfect than gay people who identify as Christian?