U.S. -- Could Christian political activism be the cause of declining church attendance?

Although correlation is not cause, the rise of Christian activism has been accompanied by a precipitous drop in church attendance. Today, while 40 to 70 percent of Americans still self-identify as church-going, fewer than 20 percent are actually in church on any given Sunday.

Within the church the reasons given for decline in attendance range from cultural decay to watering down of the message. Unfortunately, the message of conservative Christian activists has never been clearer.

Masquerading as a religious movement, the American Tea Party with its gay bashing, misogynistic, climate change denying, televised and choreographed efforts to control elections and shape laws is delivering a carefully honed message.

God judges and God hates.

God’s hate may well be driving people away from the church in droves.

According to the Pew Forum on Religious and Political Life, “This abuse of religion for political purposes has been tremendously damaging for American politics. But it is worth pointing out that it has been destructive of religion, too.”

There are churches whose doors are open to everyone. They welcome people as God created them, young, old, doubters, believers, gay, straight, those who simply need a community to accept and love them as they are.

There are churches that joyously serve others and Christian coffee houses that may well be the new face of the church in America. They provide platforms for open discussion and equip thousands of volunteers to offer true compassion. They respect the hard work of struggling to believe in goodness when heartlessness seems to have the upper hand.

The problem is, seekers cannot determine from the parking lot whether they’ll be met inside with God’s love or God’s wrath. So they stay away.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/religious-rights/243397-mixing-christianity-and-politics-is-killing-the-church

God does not hate at all, equally he does have to judge each person come the day....

Maybe people are too tired to get up to go to church. Maybe they're hung over. Maybe they're doing their shopping.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:God does not hate at all, equally he does have to judge each person come the day....

Does the Bible say God hates at all? Yes, it does:

Leviticus 20:23 - "And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them."

Leviticus 26:30 - "And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you."

Deuteronomy 32:19 - "And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters."

Psalm 5:5 - "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

Psalm 5:6 - "Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man."

Psalm 10:3 - "For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth."

Psalm 11:5 - "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth."

Psalm 53:5 - "There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them."

Psalm 73:20 - "As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image."

Psalm 78:59 - "When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:"

Psalm 106:40 - "Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance."

Proverbs 6:16-19 - "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Proverbs 22:14 - "The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein."

Lamentations 2:6 - "And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest."

Hosea 9:15 - "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters."

Zechariah 11:8 - "Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me."

Malachi 1:3 - "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

Romans 9:13 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

@Raggs -- All this hand-waving from across the ocean to dismiss what American Christians say is happening in their own churches. Have you attended church in the United States recently?

Many people only go to church for----Hatched, Matched, or Dispatched!

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:God does not hate at all, equally he does have to judge each person come the day....

Does the Bible say God hates at all? Yes, it does:

Leviticus 20:23 - "And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them."

Leviticus 26:30 - "And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you."

Deuteronomy 32:19 - "And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters."

Psalm 5:5 - "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

Psalm 5:6 - "Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man."

Psalm 10:3 - "For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth."

Psalm 11:5 - "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth."

Psalm 53:5 - "There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them."

Psalm 73:20 - "As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image."

Psalm 78:59 - "When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:"

Psalm 106:40 - "Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance."

Proverbs 6:16-19 - "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:  A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Proverbs 22:14 - "The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein."

Lamentations 2:6 - "And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest."

Hosea 9:15 - "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters."

Zechariah 11:8 - "Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me."

Malachi 1:3 - "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

Romans 9:13 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

@Raggs -- All this hand-waving from across the ocean to dismiss what American Christians say is happening in their own churches. Have you attended church in the United States recently?

Yes, I popped over there last Sunday to attend church.

I can only assume seeing a red-faced man ranting about gay marriage, abortion and guns made you feel like you were walking in closer step with the all-loving creator of the universe?

Ben_Reilly wrote:I can only assume seeing a red-faced man ranting about gay marriage, abortion and guns made you feel like you were walking in closer step with the all-loving creator of the universe?

We don't really have that sort of thing here - not as a matter of course anyway, and people still don't go to church.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:God does not hate at all, equally he does have to judge each person come the day....

Does the Bible say God hates at all? Yes, it does:

Leviticus 20:23 - "And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them."

Leviticus 26:30 - "And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you."

Deuteronomy 32:19 - "And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters."

Psalm 5:5 - "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

Psalm 5:6 - "Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man."

Psalm 10:3 - "For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth."

Psalm 11:5 - "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth."

Psalm 53:5 - "There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them."

Psalm 73:20 - "As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image."

Psalm 78:59 - "When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:"

Psalm 106:40 - "Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance."

Proverbs 6:16-19 - "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:  A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Proverbs 22:14 - "The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein."

Lamentations 2:6 - "And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest."

Hosea 9:15 - "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters."

Zechariah 11:8 - "Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me."

Malachi 1:3 - "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

Romans 9:13 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

@Raggs -- All this hand-waving from across the ocean to dismiss what American Christians say is happening in their own churches. Have you attended church in the United States recently?

he hates the sin they commit yet Jesus came to die so they could all be forgiven, that's pretty amazing..

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:I can only assume seeing a red-faced man ranting about gay marriage, abortion and guns made you feel like you were walking in closer step with the all-loving creator of the universe?

We don't really have that sort of thing here - not as a matter of course anyway, and people still don't go to church.

But you do have people who oppose gay marriage for religious reasons, etc. -- they are trying to impose religious values on secular society like American Christians do here. And there's a lot of international coordination that goes on as well.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:I can only assume seeing a red-faced man ranting about gay marriage, abortion and guns made you feel like you were walking in closer step with the all-loving creator of the universe?

We don't really have that sort of thing here - not as a matter of course anyway, and people still don't go to church.

But you do have people who oppose gay marriage for religious reasons, etc. -- they are trying to impose religious values on secular society like American Christians do here. And there's a lot of international coordination that goes on as well.

Ben but it's the British opposing.... meaning they are really annoyed and say things like
"oh dear I'm a Bit Miffed"
in real life Tommy probably will say sorry if you tread on his toe

America is lucky it has enough people to offset the stupid it teaches it's children

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

We don't really have that sort of thing here - not as a matter of course anyway, and people still don't go to church.

But you do have people who oppose gay marriage for religious reasons, etc. -- they are trying to impose religious values on secular society like American Christians do here. And there's a lot of international coordination that goes on as well.

and gays are trying to impose their values on normal people, why should that be allowed..

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

We don't really have that sort of thing here - not as a matter of course anyway, and people still don't go to church.

But you do have people who oppose gay marriage for religious reasons, etc. -- they are trying to impose religious values on secular society like American Christians do here. And there's a lot of international coordination that goes on as well.

They don't tend to rant about it though. I have never heard anyone in a church say anything about gay marriage, or about gay people generally. I've never heard anyone say it on the street either. I've read about a handful of cases in the press where it's become a legal issue, and that's it.