We often say I can forgive but I cannot forget...

Is that possible, if we do not forget it or ay least try too have we really forgiven???

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:Is that possible, if we do not forget it or ay least try too have we really forgiven???

I think it is possible, because if you forgive someone you go back to treating them however you did before they wronged you.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:Is that possible, if we do not forget it or ay least try too have we really forgiven???

I think it is possible, because if you forgive someone you go back to treating them however you did before they wronged you.

that would be the best way, but some people say i won't forget because i wouldn't let anyone do that to me again and in that case obviously some harm has been done and the person harmed may actually take it out on the next person who comes along, if you get what I mean..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:Is that possible, if we do not forget it or ay least try too have we really forgiven???

I think it is possible, because if you forgive someone you go back to treating them however you did before they wronged you.

that would be the best way, but some people say i won't forget because i wouldn't let anyone do that to me again and in that case obviously some harm has been done and the person harmed may actually take it out on the next person who comes along, if you get what I mean..

I think so; I think the key is to try to put the wrongdoing in its proper context, or a context that at least allows you to move on. Some people suffer from trauma that keeps them from moving forward with their lives, and I think the only way they can fix that is to make the trauma a smaller piece of an understandable whole. So they can say to themselves something like, I understand that that happened and why it happened, and I'm going to take the appropriate lessons from it, but I'm not going to let the experience shape the rest of my life in any other way.

And I also think a vital part of being able to forgive others is to be able to see your own flaws, because then you want forgiveness yourself and can understand what it means to someone else.

Not to write a self-help book about it or anything

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
that would be the best way, but some people say i won't forget because i wouldn't let anyone do that to me again and in that case obviously some harm has been done and the person harmed may actually take it out on the next person who comes along, if you get what I mean..

I think so; I think the key is to try to put the wrongdoing in its proper context, or a context that at least allows you to move on. Some people suffer from trauma that keeps them from moving forward with their lives, and I think the only way they can fix that is to make the trauma a smaller piece of an understandable whole. So they can say to themselves something like, I understand that that happened and why it happened, and I'm going to take the appropriate lessons from it, but I'm not going to let the experience shape the rest of my life in any other way.

And I also think a vital part of being able to forgive others is to be able to see your own flaws, because then you want forgiveness yourself and can understand what it means to someone else.

Not to write a self-help book about it or anything

that does make a great deal of sense, we have a friend who's son hung himself at school, she is determined to prove he was actually killed or someone helped him to do it, she has fought the police, the courts, everyone who has said otherwise and the only result is after ten years she has not really grieved properly and has not moved on beyond the day it happened, it has taken it's toll on her health and her sanith in all honesty.
If we allow bad events in our lives to define us we have not forgotten.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
that would be the best way, but some people say i won't forget because i wouldn't let anyone do that to me again and in that case obviously some harm has been done and the person harmed may actually take it out on the next person who comes along, if you get what I mean..

I think so; I think the key is to try to put the wrongdoing in its proper context, or a context that at least allows you to move on. Some people suffer from trauma that keeps them from moving forward with their lives, and I think the only way they can fix that is to make the trauma a smaller piece of an understandable whole. So they can say to themselves something like, I understand that that happened and why it happened, and I'm going to take the appropriate lessons from it, but I'm not going to let the experience shape the rest of my life in any other way.

And I also think a vital part of being able to forgive others is to be able to see your own flaws, because then you want forgiveness yourself and can understand what it means to someone else.

Not to write a self-help book about it or anything

that does make a great deal of sense, we have a friend who's son hung himself at school, she is determined to prove he was actually killed or someone helped him to do it, she has fought the police, the courts, everyone who has said otherwise and the only result is after ten years she has not really grieved properly and has not moved on beyond the day it happened, it has taken it's toll on her health and her sanith in all honesty.
If we allow bad events in our lives to define us we have not forgotten.

That's very sad, I think my mother's a bit like that. When my father died, he was with my grandmother, and instead of calling emergency services, she went and got my sister. My sister, of course, did call emergency services, but probably a few minutes went by between the time he had collapsed and my sister had gotten them on the phone.

I don't think it made a difference, but my mother still gets really angry about it (five years later) and seems to think that if my grandmother had acted more quickly, my father might have been revived. So it's like she turned her grief into anger and blame instead of accepting what happened and letting herself grieve.

I have forgiven, for my sake not for theirs, and because I realise they do it because there is something missing or wrong in their make up, but I will never ever forget and I will judge their future actions accordingly.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
that does make a great deal of sense, we have a friend who's son hung himself at school, she is determined to prove he was actually killed or someone helped him to do it, she has fought the police, the courts, everyone who has said otherwise and the only result is after ten years she has not really grieved properly and has not moved on beyond the day it happened, it has taken it's toll on her health and her sanith in all honesty.
If we allow bad events in our lives to define us we have not forgotten.

That's very sad, I think my mother's a bit like that. When my father died, he was with my grandmother, and instead of calling emergency services, she went and got my sister. My sister, of course, did call emergency services, but probably a few minutes went by between the time he had collapsed and my sister had gotten them on the phone.

I don't think it made a difference, but my mother still gets really angry about it (five years later) and seems to think that if my grandmother had acted more quickly, my father might have been revived. So it's like she turned her grief into anger and blame instead of accepting what happened and letting herself grieve.

I think that's the worse thing, never knowing, it can eat at you like a cancer, everyone can have 20 20 hindsight but it does not mean your other choice would have panned out any better in the long run.
It shows though that if we don't allow ourselves to forget the event just keeps on taking from us, what robbed her of one person can rob her of family and years of joy and love, that's really sad..

Regarding what's been said to me on these forums that we use,I have no need to forgive anybody because I don't take what has been said seriously.

It's all a load of guff & most posters need to take time off from the site & get real.

Shady wrote:Regarding what's been said to me on these forums that we use,I have no need to forgive anybody because I don't take what has been said seriously.

It's all a load of guff & most posters need to take time off from the site & get real.

a very good point, it is and accepted fact that most poeple online do have an online persona, so why should we accpet anything anyone on here claims..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Shady wrote:Regarding what's been said to me on these forums that we use,I have no need to forgive anybody because I don't take what has been said seriously.

It's all a load of guff & most posters need to take time off from the site & get real.

a very good point, it is and accepted fact that most poeple online do have an online persona, so why should we accpet anything anyone on here claims..

Well take me for example.As soon as my little fingers press the buttons to log on,I suddenly think that I'm a pirate.

And as equally strange,there are others who logon & think that they are always right & everyone else is wrong.

Funny that.

Shady wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
a very good point, it is and accepted fact that most poeple online do have an online persona, so why should we accpet anything anyone on here claims..

Well take me for example.As soon as my little fingers press the buttons to log on,I suddenly think that I'm a pirate.

And as equally strange,there are others who logon & think that they are always right & everyone else is wrong.

Funny that.

that is the fun of the internet forums, you can be whom ever you wish to be that day...

risingsun wrote:I have forgiven, for my sake not for theirs, and because I realise they do it because there is something missing or wrong in their make up, but I will never ever forget and I will judge their future actions accordingly.

forgiveness is very good for you, i think it actually protects you as a person, if yu judge their actions for ever more you may lose out on what could be a good friend or a partner..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:Is that possible, if we do not forget it or ay least try too have we really forgiven???

When people say that, it means that they're still pissed off, and are possibly secretly plotting revenge.

Raggamuffin wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:Is that possible, if we do not forget it or ay least try too have we really forgiven???

When people say that, it means that they're still pissed off, and are possibly secretly plotting revenge.

I think you are right...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Shady wrote:

Well take me for example.As soon as my little fingers press the buttons to log on,I suddenly think that I'm a pirate.

And as equally strange,there are others who logon & think that they are always right & everyone else is wrong.

Funny that.

that is the fun of the internet forums, you can be whom ever you wish to be that day...

Exactly right, but it has to be remembered that is not fun for everyone. For some people this is real life, they spend all their time online finding things to get outraged about and tweeting and blogging their banality for the amusement of others. Either they are such megalomaniacs that they think it is their mission to educate as they see it, or they are people that spend far too much time alone and are a bit sad. Either way more to be pitied than scolded.

After all " the ragged trousered Philanthropists, when they are adequately fed, must find other sources of discontent.

@ Shady you are still my favourite pirate, well after Jack Sparrow of course!

Shady wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
a very good point, it is and accepted fact that most poeple online do have an online persona, so why should we accpet anything anyone on here claims..

Well take me for example.As soon as my little fingers press the buttons to log on,I suddenly think that I'm a pirate.

And as equally strange,there are others who logon & think that they are always right & everyone else is wrong.

Funny that.

Some people are like that online or off

Nems wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
that is the fun of the internet forums, you can be whom ever you wish to be that day...

Exactly right, but it has to be remembered that is not fun for everyone. For some people this is real life, they spend all their time online finding things to get outraged about and tweeting and blogging their banality for the amusement of others. Either they are such megalomaniacs that they think it is their mission to educate as they see it, or they are people that spend far too much time alone and are a bit sad. Either way more to be pitied than scolded.

After all " the ragged trousered Philanthropists, when they are adequately fed, must find other sources of discontent.

@ Shady you are still my favourite pirate, well after Jack Sparrow of course!

I have to agree some seem to feed off the hate and unhappiness and live to spread it around even more, they clearly do not have a life at all.

Nems wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
that is the fun of the internet forums, you can be whom ever you wish to be that day...

Exactly right, but it has to be remembered that is not fun for everyone. For some people this is real life, they spend all their time online finding things to get outraged about and tweeting and blogging their banality for the amusement of others. Either they are such megalomaniacs that they think it is their mission to educate as they see it, or they are people that spend far too much time alone and are a bit sad. Either way more to be pitied than scolded.

After all " the ragged trousered Philanthropists, when they are adequately fed, must find other sources of discontent.

@ Shady you are still my favourite pirate, well after Jack Sparrow of course!

Diagnoses:

Bitterness.
Jealousy.
Envy.
Hateful.
Selfish.
Unable to move forward.
Resentment.
Callus.
Vindictive.

that's a bit "over the top" didge isn't it?

nicko wrote:that's a bit "over the top"   didge isn't it?

Is a very fair analysis Nicko, as it was completely negative in every aspect.
People clash and do not get along at times, it is the ability to move forward that counts.
Her post was very vindictive and spiteful, so would you not say her post was over the top?
Was it even warranted?
No, I think people would rather debate, and that is nothing more than being nasty and stirring.

Belatucadros wrote:

Nems wrote:

Exactly right, but it has to be remembered that is not fun for everyone. For some people this is real life, they spend all their time online finding things to get outraged about and tweeting and blogging their banality for the amusement of others. Either they are such megalomaniacs that they think it is their mission to educate as they see it, or they are people that spend far too much time alone and are a bit sad. Either way more to be pitied than scolded.

After all " the ragged trousered Philanthropists, when they are adequately fed, must find other sources of discontent.

@ Shady you are still my favourite pirate, well after Jack Sparrow of course!

Diagnoses:

Bitterness.
Jealousy.
Envy.
Hateful.
Selfish.
Unable to move forward.
Resentment.
Callus.
Vindictive.

Diagnoses:
Fuckwit

Nems wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


Diagnoses:

Bitterness.
Jealousy.
Envy.
Hateful.
Selfish.
Unable to move forward.
Resentment.
Callus.
Vindictive.

Diagnoses:
Fuckwit

Diagnoses:

Spiteful
Hateful
Vindictive
Nasty
Callus
Belligerent
Abusive

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
that would be the best way, but some people say i won't forget because i wouldn't let anyone do that to me again and in that case obviously some harm has been done and the person harmed may actually take it out on the next person who comes along, if you get what I mean..

I think the key is to try to put the wrongdoing in its proper context, or a context that at least allows you to move on.

Moving on is quite different from forgetting.  The counter-maxium to forgive and forget is fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.  In the first instance, you have been betrayed; in the second instance, you have betrayed yourself.  It's really just a question of, do you want to learn...or not?

I really don't understand why 'forgive' and 'forget' were thrown together in the first place.  To forgive is an act of will.  To forget is cognitive defect.  Instead of 'forget' I believe a thinking person means 'to but behind you...'  You can put something behind you, yet still not ever forget.  

To advise someone to actually forget what s/he learned is poor advice indeed.  

Original Quill wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

I think the key is to try to put the wrongdoing in its proper context, or a context that at least allows you to move on.

Moving on is quite different from forgetting.  The counter-maxium to forgive and forget is fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.  In the first instance, you have been betrayed; in the second instance, you have betrayed yourself.  It's really just a question of, do you want to learn...or not?

I really don't understand why 'forgive' and 'forget' were thrown together in the first place.  To forgive is an act of will.  To forget is cognitive defect.  Instead of 'forget' I believe a thinking person means 'to but behind you...'  You can put something behind you, yet still not ever forget.  

To advise someone to actually forget what s/he learned is poor advice indeed.  

it can be important to forget, just because the last person betrayed you or tricked you doesn't mean you should assume everyone will, if it causes you to look for the same thing you may upset the new person and miss a chance of a relationship...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Moving on is quite different from forgetting.  The counter-maxium to forgive and forget is fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.  In the first instance, you have been betrayed; in the second instance, you have betrayed yourself.  It's really just a question of, do you want to learn...or not?

I really don't understand why 'forgive' and 'forget' were thrown together in the first place.  To forgive is an act of will.  To forget is cognitive defect.  Instead of 'forget' I believe a thinking person means 'to but behind you...'  You can put something behind you, yet still not ever forget.  

To advise someone to actually forget what s/he learned is poor advice indeed.  

it can be important to forget, just because the last person betrayed you or tricked you doesn't mean you should assume everyone will, if it causes you to look for the same thing you may upset the new person and miss a chance of a relationship...

Yes, generalizations can go arwy. But that is in the construct, not the actual memory. The memory can not, and should not be lost.

from a Christian view i think forgiving and forgetting is healthier than being reminded of something bad that happened, if i keep remembering that is bitterness still there which leads to sickness in my opinion , so i prefer to forgive and forget .

Original Quill wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
it can be important to forget, just because the last person betrayed you or tricked you doesn't mean you should assume everyone will, if it causes you to look for the same thing you may upset the new person and miss a chance of a relationship...

Yes, generalizations can go arwy.  But that is in the construct, not the actual memory.  The memory can not, and should not be lost.

I agree we cannot simply chose to forget and the memory is gone, what i mean is it is important to not allow events in ife to defne you as a person..

I'm an entirely forgiving person, mostly people aren't horrible for the sake of np being horrible, there is normally always a pretty good reason for someone acting horribly.

I am usually quite good at moving in and not harbouring a grudge - but if someone really hurts my feelings then I can really turn my back.

Forgetting is impossible - I've never understood that notion, I can't help it if I remember what someone did??!

I dislike holding grudges. I simply don't dislike anyone enough tbh.