New Book - Christianity Is Not Great: How Faith Fails

This anthology of counter-Apologetic essays merits a place on the bookshelf of every atheist, lay-student of comparative religion or Christian coming to question his belief. (Or just seeking to understand the worldviews of non-Christians.) In cataloguing the harms done by this religion, and the scope for addressing them, it is close to encyclopaedic. Crucially, it is an anthology of specialist and often scholarly contributions from writers addressing a particular field, and thus avoids a trap into which much humanist literature falls: The cult of the individual ego. Finally, the book indicates how atheism and humanism provide a model better suited for ameliorating the harms done by Christian belief.

The book is divided into five major catalogues. These cover the epistemic failure of Christianity in an Enlightened - perhaps increasingly post-Enlightened - world, the political and institutional harm done in a world of divinely-appointed kings and cracking walls of separation, the scientific harms of a religion that pictures the world sitting on pillars, immune to industrial desecration and a clonal, XY-chromosome Eve born of a man, the social and moral harms of a belief system that squashes women, endorses slavery and often enough condemns fertility control, and the ethical questions of how to walk upright as a moral humanist. Each of several subchapters is contributed by an expert and is a manageable read for the morning train-ride or the evening glass of wine.

All are gracefully written and perfectly readable. I found very little with which to take issue in these essays, despite personally being more of an accommodationist, and the essayists generally do not pretend that there is nothing at all positive to be said. Rather, the entire thrust is that the posistive in Christianity is not worth the price. There is one very interesting argument, new to me and which I will not repeat here, that morality is in fact incompatible with a lawgiving deity rather than actively dependent on one, and a neat excoriation of the Kalaam Cosmological Argument, albeit perhaps a philosophical sitting duck with its wild premises and false inferences. The contributions are mainly not polemic, but there are plenty of passages prone to cause one's earwax to vapourise in a puff of enraged grease, such as those dealing with "Biblical" corporal punishment of children, expulsion by families of doubters and the torture of women during the Witch Trials.

John Loftus is a uniquely valuable contributor in his own right, since he has made the transition from fundamentalist preacher to fun-loving, and people-loving, activist ex-Christian. He is able to speak to the harms of Christianity in a way that many atheists could not, as a former insider, and thus forestall certain kinds of creationist evasion such as the appeal to naturalistic bias. He is also a humanist shepherd, able to understand the alienating wrench that losing one's religion can inflict and willing to extend a helping hand to those who scale the same scree-littered slope. Reading this, I am glad not to have to make that climb, as perhaps the most tragic harm of Christianity is the one responsible for its persistence - the gauntlet of pain and opprobrium which seems to await any who question.

Highly recommended.


https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/1275713561

i forget what the reaction was to Christians giving literature out to schools for education but obviously it doesn't work both ways..lol

not surprised...

This is just a book on sale with a review, one well worth the read and not one forced down children throats at school which you elude to and even poorly tried to defend the other day.
Quite a huge difference.

Belatucadros wrote:This is just a book on sale, well worth the read and not one forced down children throats at school which you elude to and even poorly tried to defend the other day.
Quite a huge difference.

the leaflets were not forced down anyone's throats, no one was made to read them but your bias and bigotry is clear...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:This is just a book on sale, well worth the read and not one forced down children throats at school which you elude to and even poorly tried to defend the other day.
Quite a huge difference.

the leaflets were not forced down anyone's throats, no one was made to read them but your bias and bigotry is clear...

Yes they were and to school children. Where as all this is a review to a book, which you may not well like, but then I posted it for others if they wished to read, as I know it would be of no interest to you, proving again your religious insensitivity.[/quote]

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
the leaflets were not forced down anyone's throats, no one was made to read them but your bias and bigotry is clear...

Yes they were and to school children. Where as all this is a review to a book, which you may not well like, but then I posted it for others if they wished to read, as I know it would be of no interest to you, proving again your religious insensitivity.

[/quote]
no one had a leaflet glued to their eyes, no one had their eyes pulled open and were forced to read.
you need to get over your bias and bigotry... then you will be able to reason...

Still making poor excuses I see as the last time I looked this was a forum where you have to be an adult.
Anyway I bet you would be too afraid to read such a book, being as you claim to be 100% of faith it really should not be a problem for you should it?

Belatucadros wrote:Still making poor excuses I see as the last time I looked this was a forum where you have to be an adult.
Anyway I bet you would be too afraid to read such a book, being as you claim to be 100% of faith it really should not be a problem for you should it?

have you ever read a book about gays having a prolapsed bowel or are you just to frightened to read it....

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:Still making poor excuses I see as the last time I looked this was a forum where you have to be an adult.
Anyway I bet you would be too afraid to read such a book, being as you claim to be 100% of faith it really should not be a problem for you should it?

have you ever read a book about gays having a prolapsed bowel or are you just to frightened to read it....

Yet more deflection, am happy to read this book, if you can post details, even though it is not something that would directly effect me, but happy to read if you like.
So are you happy to read this book, being as you claim to have 100% faith?

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
have you ever read a book about gays having a prolapsed bowel or are you just to frightened to read it....

Yet more deflection, am happy to read this book, if you can post details, even though it is not something that would directly effect me, but happy to read if you like.
So are you happy to read this book, being as you claim to have 100% faith?

its in all good book stores check it out, its called my boyfriend wrecked my back passage...

you see i haven't read any books on knitting but it is not because knitting frightens me...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

Yet more deflection, am happy to read this book, if you can post details, even though it is not something that would directly effect me, but happy to read if you like.
So are you happy to read this book, being as you claim to have 100% faith?

its in all good book stores check it out, its called my boyfriend wrecked my back passage...

you see i haven't read any books on knitting but it is not because knitting frightens me...

Funny I cannot see this book. Though again happy to read if you like.
So you have no problem to read this book then, if you fear nothing.

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
its in all good book stores check it out, its called my boyfriend wrecked my back passage...

you see i haven't read any books on knitting but it is not because knitting frightens me...

Funny I cannot see this book. Though again happy to read if you like.
So you have no problem to read this book then, if you fear nothing.

tell you what you buy a bible and read it then i'll buy this book...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

Funny I cannot see this book. Though again happy to read if you like.
So you have no problem to read this book then, if you fear nothing.

tell you what you buy a bible and read it then i'll buy this book...

Read that book cover to cover daily as a child growing up.
So now you can go out and but this book then.

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
tell you what you buy a bible and read it then i'll buy this book...

Read that book cover to cover daily as a child growing up.
So now you can go out and but this book then.

yet you don't know any of it...lol makes sense, get the one that reads it to you or has pop up's it might help...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


Read that book cover to cover daily as a child growing up.
So now you can go out and but this book then.

yet you don't know any of it...lol makes sense, get the one that reads it to you or has pop up's it might help...

You are just talking gibberish now, seriously.

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
yet you don't know any of it...lol makes sense, get the one that reads it to you or has pop up's it might help...

You are just talking gibberish now, seriously.

not at all just showing you that there is no way your claims to have read the bible can be true...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


You are just talking gibberish now, seriously.

not at all just showing you that there is no way your claims to have read the bible can be true...

Really based on your opinion, I was raised a Catholic and was spoon fed the bible daily, the only difference is you interpret the bible different to how a Catholic does or how I do now as an atheist!
So you are just coming outwith the most feeble excuses not to read this book
Like I said, you are just now talking gibberish.

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
not at all just showing you that there is no way your claims to have read the bible can be true...

Really based on your opinion, I was raised a Catholic and was spoon fed the bible daily, the only difference is you interpret the bible different to how a Catholic does or how I do now as an atheist!
So you are just coming outwith the most feeble excuses not to read this book
Like I said, you are just now talking gibberish.

yes i know didge you have told me so many times, yet you never demonstarte any understanding of the bible, which could be as much to do with catholocism as your actually cognitive reasoning but it could be a bit of both...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


Really based on your opinion, I was raised a Catholic and was spoon fed the bible daily, the only difference is you interpret the bible different to how a Catholic does or how I do now as an atheist!
So you are just coming outwith the most feeble excuses not to read this book
Like I said, you are just now talking gibberish.

yes i know didge you have told me so many times, yet you never demonstarte any understanding of the bible, which could be as much to do with catholocism as your actually cognitive reasoning but it could be a bit of both...

Thanks for proving my point because as a former catholic, my catholic understanding would be far removed from your modern Born again Christian view.lol that was easy, so your view on Christianity is your own perception, where again there is no verse that shows Jesus condemn homosexuality and I have even showed he was progressive and he brought about change
So again you are just coming out with feeble excuses, because I clearly have read the bible whether you agree or not agree with how I viewed Christianity.

So you are just being a copout

Laters

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
yes i know didge you have told me so many times, yet you never demonstarte any understanding of the bible, which could be as much to do with catholocism as your actually cognitive reasoning but it could be a bit of both...

Thanks for proving my point because as a former catholic, my catholic understanding would be far removed from your modern Born again Christian view.
lol that was easy, so your view on Christian is your own perception, where again there is no verse that shows Jesus condemn homosexuality and I have even showed he was progressive and he brought about change.

I still don't know where you get this born again thing from, like it is some kind of cult, born again is mentioned in the bible...

catholocism brings some perculiarities to the table such as praying to mary, the idea or purgatory, asking a man in a box to forgive your sins, so yes it can cause some problems in believers..

Jesus is part of the triune God, father son and Holy spirit, Jesus cannot be separated from God or his word as the word was with God and the word was God, Jesus, God and the the bible are not separate entities they are all one in the same, thats why in John as I told you he says he does nothing of himself only what the father gives him to do as they are one in purpose, when the bible condemns homosexuality so does Jesus.

the above from a man who claims to have read the bible (HF) and yet avoided every reference i made to it in previous arguments with the claim he couldnt "remember" it all.....



surely

if he is of such faith that that 2000+year old book of myths and nonsense informs his every move and thought then he really ought to know it inside out??

darknessss wrote:the above from a man who claims to have read the bible (HF) and yet avoided every reference i made to it in previous arguments with the claim he couldnt "remember" it all.....



surely

if he is of such faith that that 2000+year old book of myths and nonsense informs his every move and thought then he really ought to know it inside out??

so you think i never answered you comments on what you call a 2000 year old book of myths, would my answers have made any difference..

why would you want to stop others from believing, why are you such a bigot with a closed mind, you are not looking for answers you are just looking to make others accept your choice, you made it if you are so sure you stick with it, let others make their own mind up, there's a good girl...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

Thanks for proving my point because as a former catholic, my catholic understanding would be far removed from your modern Born again Christian view.
lol that was easy, so your view on Christian is your own perception, where again there is no verse that shows Jesus condemn homosexuality and I have even showed he was progressive and he brought about change.

I still don't know where you get this born again thing from, like it is some kind of cult, born again is mentioned in the bible...

catholocism brings some perculiarities to the table such as praying to mary, the idea or purgatory, asking a man in a box to forgive your sins, so yes it can cause some problems in believers..

Jesus is part of the triune God, father son and Holy spirit, Jesus cannot be separated from God or his word as the word was with God and the word was God, Jesus, God and the the bible are not separate entities they are all one in the same, thats why in John as I told you he says he does nothing of himself only what the father gives him to do as they are one in purpose, when the bible condemns homosexuality so does Jesus.

See again you prove my point, because my previous Catholicism is at odds with your Christianity, you think that means I have not read the bible. Your words:

tell you what you buy a bible and read it then i'll buy this book...

Now your bet as we might as well call it just asked me to buy and read the bible, where I already own one and have read it many times. The condition was not on whether I understood Christianity to how you view it but only to read, hence why you are coming outwith feeble excuses. Your claim to me not reading this is based on your views of Born again Christianity, which J. Prince is an advocate of which you follow.
So your claim to me not reading the bible is unfounded, as you are now attempting to move the goal posts and claim I have to view the bible is the same capacity that you do and where you even admit to differences in Catholicism, proving you have no leg to stand on. You asked only that I read it, not that I understand it to your interpretation.

Busted ha ha

And Victor is right and I have caught you out also on verses before when you have a memory lapse.

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
I still don't know where you get this born again thing from, like it is some kind of cult, born again is mentioned in the bible...

catholocism brings some perculiarities to the table such as praying to mary, the idea or purgatory, asking a man in a box to forgive your sins, so yes it can cause some problems in believers..

Jesus is part of the triune God, father son and Holy spirit, Jesus cannot be separated from God or his word as the word was with God and the word was God, Jesus, God and the the bible are not separate entities they are all one in the same, thats why in John as I told you he says he does nothing of himself only what the father gives him to do as they are one in purpose, when the bible condemns homosexuality so does Jesus.

See again you prove my point, because my previous Catholicism is at odds with your Christianity, you think that means I have not read the bible. Your words:

tell you what you buy a bible and read it then i'll buy this book...

Now your bet as we might as well call it just asked me to buy and read the bible, where I already own one and have read it many times. The condition was not on whether I understood Christianity to how you view it but only to read, hence why you are coming outwith feeble excuses. Your claim to me not reading this is based on your views of Born again Christianity, which J. Prince is an advocate of which you follow.
So your claim to me not reading the bible is unfounded, as you are now attempting to move the goal posts and claim I have to view the bible is the same capacity that you do and where you even admit to differences in Catholicism, proving you have no leg to stand on. You asked only that I read it, not that I understand it to your interpretation.

Busted ha ha

And Victor is right and I have caught you out also on verses before when you have a memory lapse.

but you don't own a bible and you haven't read one and you do not understand it, that is quite clear...
didge the day you catch me out on the bible I will give up my faith...lol

when you show me you have read the bible i'll buy the book and read it..lol

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


See again you prove my point, because my previous Catholicism is at odds with your Christianity, you think that means I have not read the bible. Your words:

tell you what you buy a bible and read it then i'll buy this book...

Now your bet as we might as well call it just asked me to buy and read the bible, where I already own one and have read it many times. The condition was not on whether I understood Christianity to how you view it but only to read, hence why you are coming outwith feeble excuses. Your claim to me not reading this is based on your views of Born again Christianity, which J. Prince is an advocate of which you follow.
So your claim to me not reading the bible is unfounded, as you are now attempting to move the goal posts and claim I have to view the bible is the same capacity that you do and where you even admit to differences in Catholicism, proving you have no leg to stand on. You asked only that I read it, not that I understand it to your interpretation.

Busted ha ha

And Victor is right and I have caught you out also on verses before when you have a memory lapse.

but you don't own a bible and you haven't read one and you do not understand it, that is quite clear...
didge the day you catch me out on the bible I will give up my faith...lol

when you show me you have read the bible i'll buy the book and read it..lol

Oh but I do own a copy of the bible as well as other religious books to study being as I am into theology.
Well being as I have caught you out many times, you should have done so 1000 times over, but I have no wish that you do renounce your faith, hence where we differ.

You only asked that I read this bible, I already have, many times and now you move the Goal posts again to now I have to show you, which means you will only agree based on your own interpretations.
That was not part of the deal and shows you are running scared and going back on your word.
I can easily prove I understand many different Christian sects, you will though just come out with yet more excuses.
Funny that.

Anyway all can see how you screwed up here and now offer more feeble excuses to why you are too scared to read this book, which leads to only one conclusion:

That you have doubt in your own faith, as nobody with 100% faith would be afraid to read it and come out with as many excuses as you are.

I am happy to leave it at that and smiling at how easy it was for me.


All the best

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

darknessss wrote:the above from a man who claims to have read the bible (HF) and yet avoided every reference i made to it in previous arguments with the claim he couldnt "remember" it all.....



surely

if he is of such faith that that 2000+year old book of myths and nonsense informs his every move and thought then he really ought to know it inside out??

so you think i never answered you comments on what you call a 2000 year old book of myths, would my answers have made any difference..

possibly not, but at least they would have shown that you actually have read the nonsense you spout

why would you want to stop others from believing, I dont...what I want to do is stop bigots like YOU pouring their poison onto the world why are you such a bigot with a closed mind, you are not looking for answers you are just looking to make others accept your choice, you made it if you are so sure you stick with it, let others make their own mind up, there's a good girl...

you can have whatever your tiny mind can cope with HF.......but theres a good little creature of the netherworld......stop pouring your bile on others choices....

see I would NOT stop you beleiving......I would however stop you spoutiong your idiocy when it affects others, who are no business of YOURS..that is to say dont affect you.

and especially I would stop you spreading your lies and misinformation, which has NO basis in fact or experience.....

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
but you don't own a bible and you haven't read one and you do not understand it, that is quite clear...
didge the day you catch me out on the bible I will give up my faith...lol

when you show me you have read the bible i'll buy the book and read it..lol

Oh but I do own a copy of the bible as well as other religious books to study being as I am into theology.
Well being as I have caught you out many times, you should have done so 1000 times over, but I have no wish that you do renounce your faith, hence where we differ.

You only asked that I read this bible, I already have, many times and now you move the Goal posts again to now I have to show you, which means you will only agree based on your own interpretations.
That was not part of the deal and shows you are running scared and going back on your word.
I can easily prove I understand many different Christian sects, you will though just come out with yet more excuses.
Funny that.

Anyway all can see how you screwed up here and now offer more feeble excuses to why you are too scared to read this book, which leads to only one conclusion:

That you have doubt in your own faith, as nobody with 100% faith would be afraid to read it and come out with as many excuses as you are.

I am happy to leave it at that and smiling at how easy it was for me.


All the best

in too theology, so yu have no spiritual understanding of the bible, that explains everything, that and the catholocism...

you can take a car too pices and still not know how it actully works, which seems to be you in every way.

every time we have debated the bible you have shown acute lack of understanding, which I can ubderstand as I am pretty sure I could read a hundred books on thermodynamics and never quite grasp what is actually ging on..

smile all yu like but yu still look and sound stupid...

Millions of Christians are living joyous peaceful lives through their belief in Christ , personal experience is more solid than a book written by someone who hates God .

Vicar of Dibley wrote:Millions of Christians are living joyous peaceful lives through their belief in Christ , personal experience is more solid than a book written by someone who hates God .

That is illogical as how can you hate something you do not believe exists Dibs?
I am sure you disagree with his views, but hate has nothing to do with his book, what has is for him seeking the truth.

I could see the point of this thread if Didge had actually written a review himself rather than just copy and paste someone else's review.

I wouldn't bother with it really - it's clearly just a random thread designed to spread more hatred of Christians.

Raggamuffin wrote:I could see the point of this thread if Didge had actually written a review himself rather than just copy and paste someone else's review.

I wouldn't bother with it really - it's clearly just a random thread designed to spread more hatred of Christians.

So now you think you can decide what is relevant?
Sorry you do not, this is a book and review of this book for which others can decide for themselves.
So yet again anything that challenges rightly bad ideas like sexism and other forms of discrimination is now apparently hate filled. That proves some Christians cannot look at problems found within their own faith or even worse back these poor ideas taught in the bible. You do not have to bother with it, others can if they so wish and you are not judge and jury to decide.

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I could see the point of this thread if Didge had actually written a review himself rather than just copy and paste someone else's review.

I wouldn't bother with it really - it's clearly just a random thread designed to spread more hatred of Christians.

So now you think you can decide what is relevant?
Sorry you do not, this is a book and review of this book for which others can decide for themselves.
So yet again anything that challenges rightly bad ideas like sexism and other forms of discrimination is now apparently hate filled. That proves some Christians cannot look at problems found within their own faith or even worse back these poor ideas taught in the bible. You do not have to bother with it, others can if they so wish and you are not judge and jury to decide.

Why haven't you written your own review?

Raggamuffin wrote:I could see the point of this thread if Didge had actually written a review himself rather than just copy and paste someone else's review.

I wouldn't bother with it really - it's clearly just a random thread designed to spread more hatred of Christians.

Yes it is and that is why i am not replying to didge i am going to see my parents soon and bring them back for a barbecue , got our grandson son and daughter in law coming too . So nothing is going to steal my peace .

God bless you Raggs .

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


So now you think you can decide what is relevant?
Sorry you do not, this is a book and review of this book for which others can decide for themselves.
So yet again anything that challenges rightly bad ideas like sexism and other forms of discrimination is now apparently hate filled. That proves some Christians cannot look at problems found within their own faith or even worse back these poor ideas taught in the bible. You do not have to bother with it, others can if they so wish and you are not judge and jury to decide.

Why haven't you written your own review?

When I have read the book I will happy to write you a review.
Have you asked any other posters if they have written the review of a book they have posted on this section to bring such books for others to read if they so wish?

I can bring up plenty of examples, so can you explain why you have asked none of them?

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I could see the point of this thread if Didge had actually written a review himself rather than just copy and paste someone else's review.

I wouldn't bother with it really - it's clearly just a random thread designed to spread more hatred of Christians.

Yes it is and that is why i am not replying to didge i am going to see my parents soon and bring them back for a barbecue , got our grandson son and daughter in law coming too . So nothing is going to steal my peace .

God bless you Raggs .

Good for you VOD. Have a nice time - I'm working so no barbecues for me, and it's quite cold here anyway.

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Why haven't you written your own review?

When I have read the book I will happy to write you a review.
Have you asked any other posters if they have written the review of a book they have posted on this section to bring such books for others to read if they so wish?

I can bring up plenty of examples, so can you explain why you have asked none of them?

Oh, you haven't actually read it then. If you're going to discuss a book, it's usually best if you've actually read it, don't you think?

Case closed.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

Yes it is and that is why i am not replying to didge i am going to see my parents soon and bring them back for a barbecue , got our grandson son and daughter in law coming too . So nothing is going to steal my peace .

God bless you Raggs .

Good for you VOD. Have a nice time - I'm working so no barbecues for me, and it's quite cold here anyway.

Well have a good day even though you're working , it isn't that warm here but we will make the most of it probably all huddle round the barbecue to keep warm

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


When I have read the book I will happy to write you a review.
Have you asked any other posters if they have written the review of a book they have posted on this section to bring such books for others to read if they so wish?

I can bring up plenty of examples, so can you explain why you have asked none of them?

Oh, you haven't actually read it then. If you're going to discuss a book, it's usually best if you've actually read it, don't you think?

Case closed.

Again others have offered up books for people to read.
So I am going to read this and offered this up for others to read.
You are just jumping on here trying to derail the thread.
The usual tactic of over sensitive Christians.
So when others have read this it will be discussed, you again are not judge and jury to decide.

Have you asked any other posters if they have written the review of a book they have posted on this section to bring such books for others to read if they so wish?


Ta