Why the SNP cannot be trusted

David Cameron started a dramatic battle to save the United Kingdom from break-up on Saturday night as Scottish nationalists prepared the ground for a new referendum on independence. Fresh from a landslide election result, Alex Salmond declared that Scotland was closer than ever to separating from the UK. After winning 56 out of 59 seats north of the border, Mr Salmond, who is now an MP, said the SNP’s near clean sweep was a “staging post” towards full independence. It was the first time that the SNP had suggested it would use its total domination at the polls to press ahead with its plan to split Scotland from the rest of Britain.

Until now, the party leadership has always promised that it would not use the general election results to re-open the debate about independence.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11595243/SNPs-dramatic-new-push-for-independence.html

cool maybe we can stop them voting on matter in england now and make them pay for their own prescriptions...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:cool maybe we can stop them voting on matter in england now and make them pay for their own prescriptions...

Don't the English pay for their own prescriptions?

Original Quill wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:cool maybe we can stop them voting on matter in england now and make them pay for their own prescriptions...

Don't the English pay for their own prescriptions?

yes...

the Scots don`t pay for there water the same way ether

If the Scots really want their independence, then let them have it. I just think the SNP are as seen very distrustful and I think the Scots will sadly suffer under them.
To me that just means Labour will struggle further to get back ever into power.

Nemesis wrote:If the Scots really want their independence, then let them have it. I just think the SNP are as seen very distrustful and I think the Scots will sadly suffer under them.
To me that just means Labour will struggle further to get back ever into power.

distrustful in what way?
its a widely held belief that had alex samond not been the leader at the time the independence vote would have been completely different in Scotland
As he is personally disliked by many (not sure why, i like him )But its analogues to the reasons Edd milliband did so badly(personal dislike ) in the GE, now that Nicola is leader and given the route of labour in Scotland it does open the door again for independence in the near future
but before the vote for independence the scots where BEGGED to vote no but then vilified in the GE
and looking at the results even if every constituency in Scotland voted labour (not likely )it would still not have kept Cameron out of number 10

the "English" can`t have it both ways but seem to want to

it also seems to me looking at the results map all the generally affluent areas in England voted tory and the traditionally working class areas vote labour

korban dallas wrote:

Nemesis wrote:If the Scots really want their independence, then let them have it. I just think the SNP are as seen very distrustful and I think the Scots will sadly suffer under them.
To me that just means Labour will struggle further to get back ever into power.

distrustful in what way?
its a widely held belief that had alex samond not been the leader at the time  the independence vote would have been completely different in Scotland
As he is personally disliked by many (not sure why, i like him )But its analogues to the reasons Edd milliband did so badly(personal dislike ) in the GE, now that Nicola is leader and given the route of labour in Scotland it does open the door again for independence in the near future
but before the vote for independence the scots where BEGGED to vote no but then vilified in the GE
and looking at the results even if every constituency in Scotland  voted labour (not likely )it would still not have kept Cameron out of number 10

the "English" can`t have it both ways but seem to want to

They had a referendum, and now off Victory are going back on their word on this.
They are trying punch above their weight.
You can provide many views in hindsight, but they did get the chance to vote and voted to stay.
As I say let em leave, we can do very well without them, again I feel sorry for the Scots who are pro Union an again I fear they will bring economic disaster to Scotland if Independent

i am sure England would do very well, But I think Scotland would do better much better

korban dallas wrote:i am sure England would do very well, But I think Scotland would do better much better
 

On that I wish you the best if they do gained independence and truly wish that, I have though grave doubts though that the SNP can deliver if independent.

korban dallas wrote:

Nemesis wrote:If the Scots really want their independence, then let them have it. I just think the SNP are as seen very distrustful and I think the Scots will sadly suffer under them.
To me that just means Labour will struggle further to get back ever into power.

distrustful in what way?
its a widely held belief that had alex samond not been the leader at the time  the independence vote would have been completely different in Scotland
As he is personally disliked by many (not sure why, i like him )But its analogues to the reasons Edd milliband did so badly(personal dislike ) in the GE, now that Nicola is leader and given the route of labour in Scotland it does open the door again for independence in the near future
but before the vote for independence the scots where BEGGED to vote no but then vilified in the GE
and looking at the results even if every constituency in Scotland  voted labour (not likely )it would still not have kept Cameron out of number 10

the "English" can`t have it both ways but seem to want to

Do you mean the UK Government? Speaking as an English person, I don't care if the Scots want to leave the UK.

a chance is all the scots want

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
distrustful in what way?
its a widely held belief that had alex samond not been the leader at the time  the independence vote would have been completely different in Scotland
As he is personally disliked by many (not sure why, i like him )But its analogues to the reasons Edd milliband did so badly(personal dislike ) in the GE, now that Nicola is leader and given the route of labour in Scotland it does open the door again for independence in the near future
but before the vote for independence the scots where BEGGED to vote no but then vilified in the GE
and looking at the results even if every constituency in Scotland  voted labour (not likely )it would still not have kept Cameron out of number 10

the "English" can`t have it both ways but seem to want to

Do you mean the UK Government? Speaking as an English person, I don't care if the Scots want to leave the UK.

yes i do Raggs ,but the sentiment "i don`t care about the scots " is a large part of the reasons we want to leave

i was brought up in England and lived there for over half my life the English are not bad people not by any stretch of the imagination, but when a people feel unwanted and castigated by a large majority can you blame them ?

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Do you mean the UK Government? Speaking as an English person, I don't care if the Scots want to leave the UK.

yes i do Raggs ,but the sentiment "i don`t care about the scots " is a large part of the reasons we want to leave

i was brought up in England and lived there for over half my life the English are not bad people not by any stretch of the imagination, but when a people feel unwanted and castigated by a large majority  can you blame them ?

I said I don't care if they want to leave Korban. I don't suppose the Scots care about me or anyone else in England either - well not people they don't know personally. The SNP don't care about people in England, do they?

Personally, I think the way the Scots were spoken about in the election, and the lies told by the media, and the bad feeling against them stirred up, was pure racism. Cameron said he wanted them to stay, then when they did, just because they wanted to vote for the policies they believe in, they were spoken about in the most vile way. Cameron, and the way he and the press spoke about the Scots has guaranteed they know they are not wanted and they will leave. And yes, they do care about the English, but they care about the English that have suffered under austerity, not the ones who have imposed it, made money out of it, and think they are superior to the common horde.

risingsun wrote:Personally, I think the way the Scots were spoken about in the election, and the lies told by the media, and the bad feeling against them stirred up, was pure racism.  Cameron said he wanted them to stay, then when they did, just because they wanted to vote for the policies they believe in, they were spoken about in the most vile way.  Cameron, and the way he and the press spoke about the Scots has guaranteed they know they are not wanted and they will leave.  And yes, they do care about the English, but they care about the English that have suffered under austerity, not the ones who have imposed it, made money out of it, and think they are superior to the common horde.

If they cared, they'd want to stay in the UK and help do something about it.

Having said that, 50% of people in Scotland did not vote for the SNP.

They tried that and look what happened. Yet again they have a government that 99% of Scots despise and don't want.

Raggamuffin wrote:

risingsun wrote:Personally, I think the way the Scots were spoken about in the election, and the lies told by the media, and the bad feeling against them stirred up, was pure racism.  Cameron said he wanted them to stay, then when they did, just because they wanted to vote for the policies they believe in, they were spoken about in the most vile way.  Cameron, and the way he and the press spoke about the Scots has guaranteed they know they are not wanted and they will leave.  And yes, they do care about the English, but they care about the English that have suffered under austerity, not the ones who have imposed it, made money out of it, and think they are superior to the common horde.

If they cared, they'd want to stay in the UK and help do something about it.

Having said that, 50% of people in Scotland did not vote for the SNP.

cant argue with that RS but after a couple of hundred years of trying what`s the point @raggs
definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly expecting different results .....time to move on

risingsun wrote:They tried that and look what happened.  Yet again they have a government that 99% of Scots despise and don't want.

The Tories got 14.9% of the popular vote in Scotland, so it's not actually 99% of Scots who don't want them in Government.

There probably isn't any info about the popular vote in England - which usually gets ignored statistically-speaking. 63% of the people who voted in the UK did not vote for the Tories though.

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

If they cared, they'd want to stay in the UK and help do something about it.

Having said that, 50% of people in Scotland did not vote for the SNP.

cant argue with that RS but after a couple of hundred years of trying what`s the point @raggs
definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly expecting different results .....time to move on

Would you feel differently if Labour had won?

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
yes i do Raggs ,but the sentiment "i don`t care about the scots " is a large part of the reasons we want to leave

i was brought up in England and lived there for over half my life the English are not bad people not by any stretch of the imagination, but when a people feel unwanted and castigated by a large majority  can you blame them ?

I said I don't care if they want to leave Korban. I don't suppose the Scots care about me or anyone else in England either - well not people they don't know personally. The SNP don't care about people in England, do they?

i think that`s what you have been lead to believe i dont think as a whole its true hence the vote No

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I said I don't care if they want to leave Korban. I don't suppose the Scots care about me or anyone else in England either - well not people they don't know personally. The SNP don't care about people in England, do they?

i think that`s what you have been lead to believe i dont think as a whole its true hence the vote No

What have I been led to believe? I daresay it was a no vote because they voted for what they thought was best for themselves.

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
cant argue with that RS but after a couple of hundred years of trying what`s the point @raggs
definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly expecting different results .....time to move on

Would you feel differently if Labour had won?

we tried that since 1928(approx) when labour was founded in Scotland yet nothing really changes so time to try another solution for Scotland and it people imo

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
i think that`s what you have been lead to believe i dont think as a whole its true hence the vote No

What have I been led to believe? I daresay it was a no vote because they voted for what they thought was best for themselves.

that the majority of scots hate the English i don`t believe that is true, i certainly don`t

The only way to get a fair representation of what everyone in the UK wants is to have proportional representation. Under such a system, the SNP would not have got 56 seats, they would have got about 30, so those who voted for them are actually over-represented at the moment.

If we had PR, it would be much fairer, but it would be mayhem because it's unlikely that any one party would get an absolute marjority. There would be coalitions all over the place!

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

What have I been led to believe? I daresay it was a no vote because they voted for what they thought was best for themselves.

that the majority of scots hate the English i don`t believe that is true, i certainly don`t

I didn't say they hated the English, I said I didn't think they cared about people in England. That was in response to you accusing people in England not caring about the Scots.

Well I wish em well, BUT......

if it all goes pear shaped I do hope they wont expect us to come along and bail em out....

As the Scots raise more tax revenue per head that England every year, I doubt that will be the case. More likely the other way round.

risingsun wrote:As the Scots raise more tax revenue per head that England every year, I doubt that will be the case.  More likely the other way round.

England or the rest of the UK?

Expenditure per head is also greater in Scotland than in England, yes?

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
that the majority of scots hate the English i don`t believe that is true, i certainly don`t

I didn't say they hated the English, I said I didn't think they cared about people in England. That was in response to you accusing people in England not caring about the Scots.

yet you said you did not care if the Scots left and yes perhaps hated was to strong a term to use

but i an adopted child felt his adopted parents didn`t care if they stayed or left
How do you think he/she would feel ,hated ,rejected, annoying, bothersome,dreaded
they are many adjectives but its the same thing in many ways

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I didn't say they hated the English, I said I didn't think they cared about people in England. That was in response to you accusing people in England not caring about the Scots.

yet you said you did not care if the Scots left and yes perhaps hated was to strong a term to use

but i an adopted child felt his adopted parents didn`t care if they stayed or left
How do you think he/she would feel ,hated ,rejected, annoying, bothersome,dreaded
   they are many adjectives but its the same thing in many ways

That's right - I did say that. I don't suppose the Scottish people who want to leave the UK care about leaving the people in England, do they? If the Scots said they would be devastated to leave the English, perhaps I'd feel differently.

England isn't the parent of Scotland is it? The UK Government happens to be here, but I suppose England could leave the UK too in theory.

darknessss wrote:Well I wish em well, BUT......

if it all goes pear shaped I do hope they wont expect us to come along and bail em out....

As long as if the shoes on the other foot you don`t expect t he scots too bail the English out
i have no problem with that

Raggamuffin wrote:England isn't the parent of Scotland is it? The UK Government happens to be here, but I suppose England could leave the UK too in theory.

in many ways i submit the comparison accurate

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:England isn't the parent of Scotland is it? The UK Government happens to be here, but I suppose England could leave the UK too in theory.

in many ways i submit the  comparison accurate

How would you feel if the English said they wanted to leave the UK to get away from the Scots?

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
yet you said you did not care if the Scots left and yes perhaps hated was to strong a term to use

but i an adopted child felt his adopted parents didn`t care if they stayed or left
How do you think he/she would feel ,hated ,rejected, annoying, bothersome,dreaded
   they are many adjectives but its the same thing in many ways

That's right - I did say that. I don't suppose the Scottish people who want to leave the UK care about leaving the people in England, do they? If the Scots said they would be devastated to leave the English, perhaps I'd feel differently.

we want to shape the country in our image with our values i see nothing wrong with that many country`s have done the same Canada ,Australia,India ,China ect Scotland is a nation not a county of England and so should be given the right to determine its own future

The Scots don't want to leave the UK to get away from the English, they want to leave the UK to stop getting a government they have never, ever voted for, a Tory Government. Frankly, if I didn't have my Dad to worry about, OH and I would be up there like a shot.

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
in many ways i submit the  comparison accurate

How would you feel if the English said they wanted to leave the UK to get away from the Scots?

As many all ready do Raggs and i strongly suspect if the whole country had a say Scotland would be independent tomorrow and there lies i think the underlying problem

risingsun wrote:The Scots don't want to leave the UK to get away from the English, they want to leave the UK to stop getting a government they have never, ever voted for, a Tory Government.  Frankly, if I didn't have my Dad to worry about, OH and I would be up there like a shot.

pretty much

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

That's right - I did say that. I don't suppose the Scottish people who want to leave the UK care about leaving the people in England, do they? If the Scots said they would be devastated to leave the English, perhaps I'd feel differently.

we want to shape the country in our image with our values i see nothing wrong with that many country`s have done the same Canada ,Australia,India ,China ect Scotland is a nation not a county of England and so should be given the right to determine its own future

Fine, so why do you expect anyone in England to care if they leave then? I can't speak for other English people of course. The SNP got 50% of the votes in Scotland, so 50% of the people are nationalists. It's strange that nationalism in England is considered a bad thing, but a virtuous thing in Scotland.

korban dallas wrote:

risingsun wrote:The Scots don't want to leave the UK to get away from the English, they want to leave the UK to stop getting a government they have never, ever voted for, a Tory Government.  Frankly, if I didn't have my Dad to worry about, OH and I would be up there like a shot.

pretty much

Exactly!

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

How would you feel if the English said they wanted to leave the UK to get away from the Scots?

As many all ready do Raggs and i strongly suspect if the whole country had a say Scotland would be independent tomorrow and there lies i think the underlying problem

You mean a referendum where all UK citizens could vote? You think that most would vote for Scotland to leave?

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
we want to shape the country in our image with our values i see nothing wrong with that many country`s have done the same Canada ,Australia,India ,China ect Scotland is a nation not a county of England and so should be given the right to determine its own future

Fine, so why do you expect anyone in England to care if they leave then? I can't speak for other English people of course. The SNP got 50% of the votes in Scotland, so 50% of the people are nationalists. It's strange that nationalism in England is considered a bad thing, but a virtuous thing in Scotland.

Many people who voted SNP were not voting in that way because they want independece, but because they want the SNP policies. And Scots have never wanted Conservative policies. With the results of the election we have shown them that a) if they want something different to us we will call them dangerous and b) the only way they will get the policies they want is to leave the UK, and we were lying when we said we wanted them to stay. We are forcing them to leave by our attitude to them.

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
we want to shape the country in our image with our values i see nothing wrong with that many country`s have done the same Canada ,Australia,India ,China ect Scotland is a nation not a county of England and so should be given the right to determine its own future

Fine, so why do you expect anyone in England to care if they leave then? I can't speak for other English people of course. The SNP got 50% of the votes in Scotland, so 50% of the people are nationalists. It's strange that nationalism in England is considered a bad thing, but a virtuous thing in Scotland.

i have no problem with nationalism in England that`s what Ukip is they are nationalists it just doesn`t say than in there name, but that`s what they are

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Fine, so why do you expect anyone in England to care if they leave then? I can't speak for other English people of course. The SNP got 50% of the votes in Scotland, so 50% of the people are nationalists. It's strange that nationalism in England is considered a bad thing, but a virtuous thing in Scotland.

i have no problem with nationalism in England that`s what Ukip is they are nationalists it just doesn`t say than in there name, but that`s what they are  

Not exactly because they speak for the whole of the UK, whether the whole of the UK wants them to or not. The SNP speak for Scotland only.

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
As many all ready do Raggs and i strongly suspect if the whole country had a say Scotland would be independent tomorrow and there lies i think the underlying problem

You mean a referendum where all UK citizens could vote? You think that most would vote for Scotland to leave?

yes raggs and i do ,in many ways that would be a sad day but its always a sad day when a "family member "decides to strike out on there own.And in-fact it could bring us closer together

risingsun wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Fine, so why do you expect anyone in England to care if they leave then? I can't speak for other English people of course. The SNP got 50% of the votes in Scotland, so 50% of the people are nationalists. It's strange that nationalism in England is considered a bad thing, but a virtuous thing in Scotland.

Many people who voted SNP were not voting in that way because they want independece, but because they want the SNP policies.   And Scots have never wanted Conservative policies.  With the results of the election we have shown them that a) if they want something different to us we will call them dangerous and b) the only way they will get the policies they want is to leave the UK, and we were lying when we said we wanted them to stay.  We are forcing them to leave by our attitude to them.

The SNP were never going to win the election - not enough candidates for obvious reasons. If they voted for the SNP to get Labour in, why not just vote for the Labour party?

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You mean a referendum where all UK citizens could vote? You think that most would vote for Scotland to leave?

yes raggs and i do ,in many ways that would be a sad day but its always a sad day when a "family member "decides to strike out on there own.And in-fact it could bring us closer together

Oh I don't know. Some might vote that way because a lot of Scots voted to leave.

I'd be interested to know how people would vote if NI wanted to leave.

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
i have no problem with nationalism in England that`s what Ukip is they are nationalists it just doesn`t say than in there name, but that`s what they are  

Not exactly because they speak for the whole of the UK, whether the whole of the UK wants them to or not.  The SNP speak for Scotland only.

Yet Nigel Farage: said the English are biggest victims of racism because of Scots that`s hardly speaking for the whole of the UK
and does`t he want the scots to leave the uk that`s certainly the impression i get