City of Baltimore in flames

The City of Baltimore Police arrested Freddie Gray, a black male, one day.  He was put in the back of a police van to be transported to jail.  Funny thing, he arrived with his back broken in three places.  Undaunted, the police refused medical aid for him.  He died a few days later.

The facts are fairly simple: healthy black male > police custody > black male ends up dead.  The police have no answer.  So they take their time, pleading they are studying the question.  Excuse me?  What are you studying?

Perhaps the City of Baltimore needs more time to make up a story.

CNN News wrote:Charred cars and buildings. Hospitalized police officers. Looted and damaged businesses. No school, because it might not be safe for children to go outside.

That was the stark reality Tuesday after a day and night that saw 202 arrests, 144 vehicle fires and 19 structure fires, according to city spokesman Kevin Harris.

"What happened ... destroyed so much of the progress that the people who actually live here have been working for," said Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, calling Monday "a very dark day for our city."

"What happened last night made sure that more people are struggling and that more people have needs, and those needs are going to go unmet because of what was destroyed."

At least 15 officers were wounded in the unrest, six of them seriously, the city's police commissioner said.

The tumult follows a spate of protests across the country over the deaths of black men after encounters with police: Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri; Eric Garner in New York; and Walter Scott in North Charleston, South Carolina. Underlying all this unrest is what Baltimore City Council Member Brandon Scott called "a long, long, longstanding issue with young African-Americans."

"We're talking about years and decades of mistrust, of misfortune, of despair that it's just coming out in anger," Scott told CNN. "No, it is not right for them to burn down their own city. But that is what's coming out of these young people."

Laquicha Harper, a 30-year-old Baltimore resident, called the violence and destruction embarrassing and "heartbreaking," saying "we owe it to ourselves to do better." She was among locals who responded Tuesday morning with brooms, not rocks, to clean up the mess left behind.

"I understand that everybody is upset, I understand that tension is brewing ... I'm here, I get it," she said. "But there are better ways that we can handle our frustration. And they can't hear us when we're behaving this way."

So the big story the American media is following is that of the riots.  No one is asking why they are rioting?  It's as if a few kids got up one morning and said: "Hey, I know, let's go burn some cars."

The only way that Freddie Gray's death figures into the story is as Freddie Gray caused all of this!  Sure, let's blame the victim.  Why?  Because the police, as a whole, constitute organized crime around the US, indiscriminately killing whomever and wherever they want...and you wouldn't want to antagonize them, would you?

Well, of course they woke up one morning and decided to riot, because that's a normal human-being thing to do -- IF you have a fairly high concentration of melanin in your skin. Melanin is like violence midichlorians, they just can't help it.

SO MANY of these cities bring this kind of trouble down on their own heads...

AND then their local councils, police forces, State and Federal governments act so surprised and flabbergasted at the protests, the rioting and the looting..

AS IF they don't know what to expect ~ what with all of the entrenched poverty, discrimination and disenfranchisement ~ and rogue cops, National Guard dweebs, and armed "neighbourhood watch" vigilantes getting away with murder, bashings, kidnapping and false imprisonment, week after week.

JUST WHAT Do the politicians, city officials, judiciary and Police chiefs expect to happen after their idiotic mistakes ?

Ben_Reilly wrote:Well, of course they woke up one morning and decided to riot, because that's a normal human-being thing to do -- IF you have a fairly high concentration of melanin in your skin. Melanin is like violence midichlorians, they just can't help it.

Some people do wake up one morning and decide to riot though, they just need an excuse to do so. We had riots over here which were in theory to do with a black chap being shot, but it was just an excuse.

this is what happens when a society forgets the "social contract"

society over there has forgatten that it OWES certain of its members security of person and the right to a peaceful life and life safe from state terror......

darknessss wrote:this is what happens when a society forgets the "social contract"

society over there has forgatten that it OWES certain of its members security of person and the right to a peaceful life and life safe from state terror......

+100000

Black and white together.

So what? Why are you so obsessed with race?

Raggamuffin wrote:So what? Why are you so obsessed with race?

Because it is genocide going on right under our noses. Who are you but some blaze, nouveau riche? So many clothes; so little time.

You don't care about murder and crime in your country? I don't believe that. The police in this country are increasingly turning into a modern version of organized crime. Of course, we are all concerned about that. Look at Baltimore, Ferguson, Chicago, Oakland, Los Angeles...the list goes on.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:So what? Why are you so obsessed with race?

Because it is genocide going on right under our noses.  Who are you but some blaze, nouveau riche?  So many clothes; so little time.  

You don't care about murder and crime in your country?  I don't believe that.  The police in this country are increasingly turning into a modern version of organized crime.  Of course, we are all concerned about that.  Look at Baltimore, Ferguson, Chicago, Oakland, Los Angeles...the list goes on.

What genocide? You talk as if white people are never killed - get real.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Because it is genocide going on right under our noses.  Who are you but some blaze, nouveau riche?  So many clothes; so little time.  

You don't care about murder and crime in your country?  I don't believe that.  The police in this country are increasingly turning into a modern version of organized crime.  Of course, we are all concerned about that.  Look at Baltimore, Ferguson, Chicago, Oakland, Los Angeles...the list goes on.

What genocide? You talk as if white people are never killed - get real.

Statistically, blacks suffer in far greater proportion than whites in every every economic, as well as criminal justice category.

You must live an incredibly privileged and protected life. You are clueless about the realities of the world, and you haven't been educated about quantitative analysis.

I know...this is not about you. But I am trying to summarize for you where your arguments typically go awry.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

What genocide? You talk as if white people are never killed - get real.

Statistically, blacks suffer in far greater proportion than whites in every every economic, as well as criminal justice category.

You must live an incredibly privileged and protected life.  You are clueless about the realities of the world, and you haven't been educated about quantitative analysis.

I know...this is not about you.  But I am trying to summarize for you where your arguments typically go awry.

I just think you're too obsessed about race, and that obsession is helping to keep the "victimhood" of black people alive. You want white people to feel guilty about black people, but that won't work IMO - people aren't going to feel guilty about something they haven't done, and it will just make them resent you for trying to blame them.

If you have an issue with the police killing people, that's fine - nothing wrong with that, but you should concentrate on that, and the use of firearms in the US, rather than anything else.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Statistically, blacks suffer in far greater proportion than whites in every every economic, as well as criminal justice category.

You must live an incredibly privileged and protected life.  You are clueless about the realities of the world, and you haven't been educated about quantitative analysis.

I know...this is not about you.  But I am trying to summarize for you where your arguments typically go awry.

I just think you're too obsessed about race, and that obsession is helping to keep the "victimhood" of black people alive. You want white people to feel guilty about black people, but that won't work IMO - people aren't going to feel guilty about something they haven't done, and it will just make them resent you for trying to blame them.

If you have an issue with the police killing people, that's fine - nothing wrong with that, but you should concentrate on that, and the use of firearms in the US, rather than anything else.

Statistics are real. A narrative account can tell a story, but only one at a time. Statistics tell what is happening overall, and everywhere. You can't generalize from specifics.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I just think you're too obsessed about race, and that obsession is helping to keep the "victimhood" of black people alive. You want white people to feel guilty about black people, but that won't work IMO - people aren't going to feel guilty about something they haven't done, and it will just make them resent you for trying to blame them.

If you have an issue with the police killing people, that's fine - nothing wrong with that, but you should concentrate on that, and the use of firearms in the US, rather than anything else.

Statistics are real.  A narrative account can tell a story, but only one at a time.  Statistics tell what is happening overall, and everywhere.  You can't generalize from specifics.

Well perhaps you shouldn't generalise so much. After all, some people say that it's generalising which leads to intolerance, bigotry, and racism in the first place.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Statistics are real.  A narrative account can tell a story, but only one at a time.  Statistics tell what is happening overall, and everywhere.  You can't generalize from specifics.

Well perhaps you shouldn't generalise so much. After all, some people say that it's generalising which leads to intolerance, bigotry, and racism in the first place.

So it is.  Generalization is just a fundamental human trait, like language or mathematics.  It's neither good nor bad.  It's like saying we shouldn't speak, because language "leads to intolerance, bigotry, and racism..."

I think this is one of the ways that you lose track of your arguments.  You lose a sense of the level on which you are talking.  We can compare anecdote to quantitative analysis without saying one or the other is good or bad.  They are indifferent techniques that we use, well, or badly. That is to say, we put them to uses that are, or can be either good or bad.

Back to the point: you are mixing narrative (anecdote) forms with quantitative forms, and confusing the two.  While perhaps the narrative form is more colorful, you still can't generalize from specifics.

I feel sorry for the people who had their cars set alight, or their property burnt down, and the police officers who have been severely wounded.

After the UK riots, the courts didn't hold back - they were very tough on those who just destroyed whatever they felt like destroying. Good thing too.

dont feed the

Raggamuffin wrote:I feel sorry for the people who had their cars set alight, or their property burnt down, and the police officers who have been severely wounded.

I feel sorry for the black men those police officers have killed...as well as their families and children that will not be fed, educated and/or supported because of some vaporous belief in racism.


New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man ... - YouTube
Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 9:46
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tULpi9EoI2Y
Jan 23, 2015 - Uploaded by TheAdviseShowTV
The Police Department in Bridgeton, New Jersey, released video this week showing the death of Jerame Reid ...

SC Cop Shoots Unarmed man | Best Footage ... - YouTube
Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 1:50
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Apr 7, 2015 - Uploaded by PureVolumeMedia
White South Carolina North Charleston Cop Police Shoot and Kill kills Unarmed Man eight times in the ...

Pasco Police shoot an unarmed man - YouTube
Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 3:32
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Feb 10, 2015 - Uploaded by Troy Waechter
Pasco, Washington Police shoot a man throwing rocks.

Cops Shoot Unarmed Man In The Chest, Then ... - YouTube
Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 3:31
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZMUnAJTuFA

Cops Shoot Unarmed Man In The Chest, Then Kick Him Multiple Times While Restrained Outside Walmart ...

Cop Shoots Unarmed Man 11 Times RIP Ernesto ... - YouTube
Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 8:30
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ins9VAo-xLY
Dec 14, 2012 - Uploaded by Lrjtv

Ernesto Duenez Jr. was killed on June 8, 2011 by police officer James Moody DA's office: Moody was ...

SC State Trooper Shoots Unarmed Man - Officer ... - YouTube
Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 6:34
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeT_oSLtI-o
Sep 25, 2014 - Uploaded by LiveLeak
The video showing a shooting involving a state trooper and an unarmed man has been released to the public ...

Police shoot unarmed man: Houston cops shoot ... - YouTube
Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 1:40
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1OsSLxaQqU
Dec 16, 2014 - Uploaded by TomoNews US

A Houston man was shot by two officers during what was supposed to be a routine traffic stop after police say ...

Police Shoot Unarmed Man in the Back ... - YouTube
Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 4:17
www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0rf2OIOxLw
Jan 7, 2009 - Uploaded by ttj1776
In a dramatic story that has been stoked by amateur YouTube videos, the aftermath of the fatal New Year's ...

Cop Shoots and Kills Unarmed Man, On Video During a ...
thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-shoots-kills-unarmed-man-video-traffic-s...
Jan 8, 2015 - police killing, police state, police murder, judge jury executioner.

Feb 12, 2015 - An unarmed man in Pasco, Washington was running from police with his back turned when he was shot and killed by officers with his hands up.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I feel sorry for the people who had their cars set alight, or their property burnt down, and the police officers who have been severely wounded.

I feel sorry for the black men those police officers have killed...as well as their families and children that will not be fed, educated and/or supported because of some vaporous belief in racism.


New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man ... - YouTube
   Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 9:46
   www.youtube.com/watch?v=tULpi9EoI2Y
   Jan 23, 2015 - Uploaded by TheAdviseShowTV
   The Police Department in Bridgeton, New Jersey, released video this week showing the death of Jerame Reid ...

SC Cop Shoots Unarmed man | Best Footage ... - YouTube
   Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 1:50
   www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LNO_y9Dge4
   Apr 7, 2015 - Uploaded by PureVolumeMedia
   White South Carolina North Charleston Cop Police Shoot and Kill kills Unarmed Man eight times in the ...

Pasco Police shoot an unarmed man - YouTube
   Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 3:32
   www.youtube.com/watch?v=veZTMhI3SDk
   Feb 10, 2015 - Uploaded by Troy Waechter
   Pasco, Washington Police shoot a man throwing rocks.

Cops Shoot Unarmed Man In The Chest, Then ... - YouTube
   Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 3:31
   www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZMUnAJTuFA

Cops Shoot Unarmed Man In The Chest, Then Kick Him Multiple Times While Restrained Outside Walmart ...

Cop Shoots Unarmed Man 11 Times RIP Ernesto ... - YouTube
Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 8:30
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ins9VAo-xLY
Dec 14, 2012 - Uploaded by Lrjtv

Ernesto Duenez Jr. was killed on June 8, 2011 by police officer James Moody DA's office: Moody was ...

SC State Trooper Shoots Unarmed Man - Officer ... - YouTube
Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 6:34
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeT_oSLtI-o
Sep 25, 2014 - Uploaded by LiveLeak
The video showing a shooting involving a state trooper and an unarmed man has been released to the public ...

Police shoot unarmed man: Houston cops shoot ... - YouTube
Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 1:40
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1OsSLxaQqU
Dec 16, 2014 - Uploaded by TomoNews US

A Houston man was shot by two officers during what was supposed to be a routine traffic stop after police say ...

Police Shoot Unarmed Man in the Back ... - YouTube
Video for cop shoots unarmed man youtube▶ 4:17
www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0rf2OIOxLw
Jan 7, 2009 - Uploaded by ttj1776
In a dramatic story that has been stoked by amateur YouTube videos, the aftermath of the fatal New Year's ...

Cop Shoots and Kills Unarmed Man, On Video During a ...
thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-shoots-kills-unarmed-man-video-traffic-s...
Jan 8, 2015 - police killing, police state, police murder, judge jury executioner.

Feb 12, 2015 - An unarmed man in Pasco, Washington was running from police with his back turned when he was shot and killed by officers with his hands up.

Are you claiming that the police officers who were hurt in the riots killed black people? Please provide a link to prove that.

Raggamuffin wrote:Are you claiming that the police officers who were hurt in the riots killed black people? Please provide a link to prove that.

In some cases, yes.  In the instances I have already provided in great detail, you have the visual evidence of those killings.

What contributed to the killings of those black men was the ideology of racism that prevails in the mind of the American cop.  They are like an occupying force, bent on suppression rather than cooperation and understanding.  Their devotion to physical violence is what is paramount.  Those cops shoot first...how did that come to be.  It is because the American cop believes his job is war.  It has reduced to that.

The cops who were injured in Baltimore are of a like mind.  What caused their injuries?  What is still causing it?  Well, truth be told, it began with the cops killing a young black man in the back of a police van.  

The lawlessness of the police breeds a disrespect for law...that is a disrespect that those cops started in motion.  Now, it comes full circle... and surprise, surprise, here it comes round again, and you are playing on our sympathies.  You expect me to share your crocodile tears?

And still it continues...the police now renegue on their promise to provide answers as to what happened in the back of that police van.  They had promised it on Friday, tomorrow. Now, in front of the whole nation, the lie and say then never made that commitment. Imagine if we said such a thing to our mortgage company!

The cops now come up with a lame story that the man was trying to commit suicide.  Jesus...HTF dumb do they think we are?  The reason why they are so stupid in their framing, is that they have been able to get away with it in the past.

Now they can't get away with it.  It's a new world.  A new sense of justice is descending upon them.  A new ideology happens...it's like some primordial flow.  A new sense of justice is descending.  There's no stopping it.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Are you claiming that the police officers who were hurt in the riots killed black people? Please provide a link to prove that.

In some cases, yes.  In the instances I have already provided in great detail, you have the visual evidence of those killings.

What contributed to the killings of those black men was the ideology of racism that prevails in the mind of the American cop.  They are like an occupying force, bent on suppression rather than cooperation and understanding.  Their devotion to physical violence is what is paramount.  Those cops shoot first...how did that come to be.  It is because the American cop believes his job is war.  It has reduced to that.

The cops who were injured in Baltimore are of a like mind.  What caused their injuries?  What is still causing it?  Well, truth be told, it began with the cops killing a young black man in the back of a police van.  

The lawlessness of the police breeds a disrespect for law...that is a disrespect that those cops started in motion.  Now, it comes full circle... and surprise, surprise, here it comes round again, and you are playing on our sympathies.  You expect me to share your crocodile tears?

And still it continues...the police now renegue on their promise to provide answers as to what happened in the back of that police van.  The come up with a lame story that the man was trying to commit suicide.  Jesus...HTF dumb do they think we are?  The reason why they are so stupid in their framing, is that they have been able to get away with it in the past.

Now they can't get away with it.  It's a new world.  A new sense of justice is descending upon them.  A new ideology happens...it's like some primordial flow.  A new sense of justice is descending.  There's no stopping it.

You have the names of the police officers who were injured in the riots then?

I just hope that the law comes down hard on the twats who set fire to cars and buildings, and to anyone who deliberately harmed a police officer who was doing his or her duty.

Raggamuffin wrote:I just hope that the law comes down hard on the twats who set fire to cars and buildings, and to anyone who deliberately harmed a police officer who was doing his or her duty.

And I hope the law comes down hard on the twats who killed Freddie Gray.  

It's a war.  And in a war, nobody wins.  What you are seeing in Baltimore is the inevitable playing out.  The cops start a war, and now they are shocked to see it come full circle.  It was inevitable.  I don't see why they can't see that: it was their doing in the first place.

Nobody thinks about the endgame in conflict situations. WTF did the cops think was going to happen? It's astounding.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I just hope that the law comes down hard on the twats who set fire to cars and buildings, and to anyone who deliberately harmed a police officer who was doing his or her duty.

And I hope the law comes down hard on the twats who killed Freddie Gray.  

It's a war.  And in a war, nobody wins.  What you are seeing in Baltimore is the inevitable playing out.  The cops start a war, and now they are shocked to see it come full circle.  It was inevitable.  I don't see why they can't see that: it was their doing in the first place.

Nobody thinks about the endgame in conflict situations.  WTF did the cops think was going to happen?  It's astounding.

If someone set fire to my car because someone killed someone else, I'd want the person who torched my car to be prosecuted. Stupid twats have no right to hurt others like that - morons.

I see you're condoning criminal damage, arson, assault, and general twattishness. Strange thing to do for a lawyer ...

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

And I hope the law comes down hard on the twats who killed Freddie Gray.  

It's a war.  And in a war, nobody wins.  What you are seeing in Baltimore is the inevitable playing out.  The cops start a war, and now they are shocked to see it come full circle.  It was inevitable.  I don't see why they can't see that: it was their doing in the first place.

Nobody thinks about the endgame in conflict situations.  WTF did the cops think was going to happen?  It's astounding.

If someone set fire to my car because someone killed someone else, I'd want the person who torched my car to be prosecuted. Stupid twats have no right to hurt others like that - morons.

I see you're condoning criminal damage, arson, assault, and general twattishness. Strange thing to do for a lawyer ...

You speak just like a darling, but protected princess...cute, bur very stupid. Are you familiar with the story of the princess who, when told the people have nothing to eat, said Let them eat cake!?

You bring a smile to my lips every time you speak.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

If someone set fire to my car because someone killed someone else, I'd want the person who torched my car to be prosecuted. Stupid twats have no right to hurt others like that - morons.

I see you're condoning criminal damage, arson, assault, and general twattishness. Strange thing to do for a lawyer ...

You speak just like a darling, but protected princess...cute, bur very stupid.  Are you familiar with the story of the princess who, when told the people have nothing to eat, said Let them eat cake!?

You bring a smile to my lips every time you speak.

Nonsense. I didn't get my car just so some moron could set fire to it. Bang them up!

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

You speak just like a darling, but protected princess...cute, bur very stupid.  Are you familiar with the story of the princess who, when told the people have nothing to eat, said Let them eat cake!?

You bring a smile to my lips every time you speak.

Nonsense. I didn't get my car just so some moron could set fire to it. Bang them up!

Lady, we are dealing with murder here, and you're worried about the tint of your car?

Now put your lipstick on and let's get with it.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nonsense. I didn't get my car just so some moron could set fire to it. Bang them up!

Lady, we are dealing with murder here, and you're worried about the tint of your car?

Now put your lipstick on and let's get with it.

I didn't murder anyone, so those arsonists can get the hell away from my car!

I bet you wouldn't like it if someone spat on your nice suit in the middle of a riot.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Lady, we are dealing with murder here, and you're worried about the tint of your car?

Now put your lipstick on and let's get with it.

I didn't murder anyone, so those arsonists can get the hell away from my car!

I bet you wouldn't like it if someone spat on your nice suit in the middle of a riot.

I didn't burn anyone's car. So by your logic, it's all good, eh?

You ought to get out of the house more.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I didn't murder anyone, so those arsonists can get the hell away from my car!

I bet you wouldn't like it if someone spat on your nice suit in the middle of a riot.

I didn't burn anyone's car.  So by your logic, it's all good, eh?

You ought to get out of the house more.

I do get out of the house. I wouldn't have a car if I didn't, would I? I'm not mad like you ...

I'm afraid if Rags came round a corner and saw one man punching another, it wouldn't occur to her that a few minutes before the man doing the punching had been beaten up himself by the person he was punching. Face value and simplistic, never looking at anything but top surface.

Did someone post? I can't see anything but a huge black box with text in it.

Oh I see it. If Sassy's house is burnt down, I'll sure she'll feel sorry for the person who set fire to it and destroyed it for no apparent reason, not to mention endangering anyone who was in it.

I'd be out with them marching.

Raggamuffin wrote:Oh I see it. If Sassy's house is burnt down, I'll sure she'll feel sorry for the person who set fire to it and destroyed it for no apparent reason, not to mention endangering anyone who was in it.

I think the point is that things have causes, which you, Princess Raggamuffin, wish to ignore.  Raggs, you repeatedly try to find a convenient place, and then stick your head in the ground:

"Never mind the murder of another human being, my car got burned."  For the life of me, it sounds to me like you are saying: Never mind the murder, torture and rape...my hair got wet and my mascara is running!

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Oh I see it. If Sassy's house is burnt down, I'll sure she'll feel sorry for the person who set fire to it and destroyed it for no apparent reason, not to mention endangering anyone who was in it.

I think the point is that things have causes, which you, Princess Raggamuffin, wish to ignore.  Raggs, you repeatedly try to find a convenient place, and then stick your head in the ground:

"Never mind the murder of another human being, my car got burned."  For the life of me, it sounds to me like you are saying: Never mind the murder, torture and rape...my hair got wet and my mascara is running!

The two things are separate. I can disapprove of the murder of a person, and still disapprove of my car being burnt.

One can dry one's hair and clean mascara off, but a burnt car can't really be saved.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Well, of course they woke up one morning and decided to riot, because that's a normal human-being thing to do -- IF you have a fairly high concentration of melanin in your skin. Melanin is like violence midichlorians, they just can't help it.

Some people do wake up one morning and decide to riot though, they just need an excuse to do so. We had riots over here which were in theory to do with a black chap being shot, but it was just an excuse.

No rags. That guy was shot and to my recollection, he had no gun and was unarmed.

Look I'm the same as you, I am always suspicious of the racism card but I can tell you, it does and can happen.
As I've said a million times, I dated a lot of black guys and so by proxy, hung out with about with a lot of black people.
I saw people being pulled over for no reason and I've seen one or two being beaten, yes beaten, for no reason!

One guy I used to know, got beaten and arrested a lot. He was a bit of a rebel and went on to shoot an officer dead years later.
I'll,see of I can find the link.

You kick people in the teeth for too long and they kick back, only harder.

http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news/crime-court/memorial_service_for_hackney_policeman_shot_dead_20_years_ago_1_622548

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Some people do wake up one morning and decide to riot though, they just need an excuse to do so. We had riots over here which were in theory to do with a black chap being shot, but it was just an excuse.

No rags. That guy was shot and to my recollection, he had no gun and was unarmed.

Look I'm the same as you, I am always suspicious of the racism card but I can tell you, it does and can happen.
As I've said a million times, I dated a lot of black guys and so by proxy, hung out with about with a lot of black people.
I saw people being pulled over for no reason and I've seen one or two being beaten, yes beaten, for no reason!

One guy I used to know, got beaten and arrested a lot. He was a bit of a rebel and went on to shoot an officer dead years later.
I'll,see of I can find the link.

He did have a gun - he'd collected it from Leyton.

The point is that a lot of the people rioting couldn't care less about that - they just wanted to go out looting mostly.

I am going to have to check now because I thought the gun was either never found or was found somewhere that he couldn't possibly have thrown it?

In any case, I do agree that some rioters just wanted the new trainers lol

eddie wrote:I am going to have to check now because I thought the gun was either never found or was found somewhere that he couldn't possibly have thrown it?

In any case, I do agree that some rioters just wanted the new trainers lol

It was found near the scene, but nobody really knows how it got there. He collected a gun in a box, and the box was found minus the gun after the shooting.

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:I am going to have to check now because I thought the gun was either never found or was found somewhere that he couldn't possibly have thrown it?

In any case, I do agree that some rioters just wanted the new trainers lol

It was found near the scene, but nobody really knows how it got there. He collected a gun in a box, and the box was found minus the gun after the shooting.

Think you will find that a bloke who lived in flats overlooking the scene filmed a police office chucking it into the park.

risingsun wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It was found near the scene, but nobody really knows how it got there. He collected a gun in a box, and the box was found minus the gun after the shooting.

Think you will find that a bloke who lived in flats overlooking the scene filmed a police office chucking it into the park.

You got a link to that video?

So what was in the box which Mark Duggan collected from Leyton? Why would someone give him an empty box?

risingsun wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It was found near the scene, but nobody really knows how it got there. He collected a gun in a box, and the box was found minus the gun after the shooting.

Think you will find that a bloke who lived in flats overlooking the scene filmed a police office chucking it into the park.

I found that video. It doesn't show that, it shows some police officers the other side of the fence where the gun was found. Another witness said that she saw a police officer remove the gun from the taxi. Now why would a police officer remove the gun from the taxi and put it elsewhere?

I think you can answer that yourself.

risingsun wrote:I think you can answer that yourself.  

Yes I can. The only reason a police officer would do that is if he wanted people to think that Mark Duggan did not have a gun on him at the time. The question is why would the police officer want people to think that?

No, he would only do that if he wanted to say Duggan got rid of it after he had pulled it so they shot him. If it was still in the box it would show that he did not have a gun in his hand when they shot him.

risingsun wrote:No, he would only do that if he wanted to say Duggan got rid of it after he had pulled it so they shot him.   If it was still in the box it would show that he did not have a gun in his hand when they shot him.

In that case, he would only have needed to remove it from the box and leave it in the taxi, or put it on the ground near the taxi or near Mark Duggan's body.

Tbh rags, in this case, I think the police made a massive error and shot an unarmed man.
Other resulting riots may have started off rather morally but just became about robbing some trainers from JD Sports and having a laugh