Iran Holocaust cartoon contest receives hundreds of submissions

Over 300 artists from Iran and countries such as France, China sent in entries for controversial competition

Hundreds of people from Iran and around the globe submitted entries for the Islamic Republic's Second International Holocaust Cartoon Contest, a competition official announced Monday. "839 artworks have also been sent to the secretariat, 686 of them have been sent to the cartoon section and 153 more are related to caricature section," Secretary Masud Shojaei-Tabatabaii told the semi-official Fars News Agency, marking the second time since 2006 that the country has held the controversial contest, which makes light of the killing of 6 million Jews in Europe during WWII. Organizers launched the cartoon contest centered on the theme of Holocaust denial in late January in response to French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo's decision to publish caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed.


http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/middle-east/66881-150407-iran-holocaust-cartoon-contest-receives-hundreds-of-submissions

It's disgusting and people that draw up these cartoons only inflame the situation and make things worse. It's time they took some responsibility for what they do instead of shouting it's free speech and we can draw what we like.
Cuts both ways though.

Irn Bru wrote:It's disgusting and people that draw up these cartoons only inflame the situation and make things worse. It's time they took some responsibility for what they do instead of shouting it's free speech and we can draw what we like.
Cuts both ways though.

And there you have the left excusing holocaust denial based off now others being critical of man and places them in comparison.

You do realise that this competition was sparked because of Charlie Hebdo
So there is no excuse for Iran doing this other than pure Holocaust denial and hate towards the Jews and Irn proves why he excuses this. It is free speech and I back free speech to draw hat people like, what I am looking for is condemnation from the left and the UN. Nobody asked for this to be banned and never made any point on bans of free speech

So you are against free speech now Irn

Apologies for posting this, but just to show the poor excuse used falls flat:

What they ignore is the fact that Charlie Hebdo mocked Jews and the Holocaust, too: Below)

A Jew says: “In exchange for the creation of Palestine, I’ll accept a one million discount on the six million”. The six million is a reference to the extermination of six million European Jews.

Well, it is free speech, just like Hebdo. In the case of this contest, it's deplorable -- of course. But I've said it here before, there are vast regions of the world where things like Holocaust denial and the blood libel are accepted without question, really in the same way the roundness of the Earth is accepted.

In other words, it won't stop just because people scream "you're wrong!" It's going to take a lot more than condemnation from a bunch of lefty foreigners ...

Frankly, I don't know why "the left" needs to comment on this. I don't ask anybody on "the right" to condemn anything they weren't involved with, and how exactly is anybody in the Western "left" involved in an Iranian cartoon contest?

meh it is wrong but so is the half the stuff Charlie Hedbo printed,
if we expect Muslims to accept it I don't see why we don't expect Jews to accept it.
we can't condemn someone else for things we would do ourselves. Free speech has to trump the hurt feelings.


"839 artworks have also been sent to the secretariat, 686 of them have been sent to the cartoon section and 153 more are related to caricature section,"
that is really not very many people. i don't think the competition was as big or as successful as the article is making out.


I also don't know why (besides Anti-Semitism) the purposely single out jews which have very little to do with Charlie Hedbo magazine.

veya_victaous wrote:meh it is wrong but so is the half the stuff Charlie Hedbo printed,
if we expect Muslims to accept it I don't see why we don't expect Jews to accept it.
we can't condemn someone else for things we would do ourselves. Free speech has to trump the hurt feelings.


"839 artworks have also been sent to the secretariat, 686 of them have been sent to the cartoon section and 153 more are related to caricature section,"
that is really not very many people. i don't think the competition was as big or as successful as the article is making out.


I also don't know why (besides Anti-Semitism)  the purposely single out jews which have very little to do with Charlie Hedbo magazine.

You miss the point, the piss take of a man is fare removed from taking the piss out of people that died in the holocaust, of which Charlie Hebdo did also and it is using this excuse of the French paper for its reasoning which as seen falls flat and is just an excuse to back their holocaust denial.
They pick out the Jews because they hate the Jews and it shows why Israel is concerned about Iran, which many people forget

I Wonder what the pictures are like?

I think it would be interesting, cant really think how you would except the number of deaths which is not really much of a joke.

and the caricatures? who are they of? just generic jews? in which case this is probably a bunch of hill shepherds.

The problem with Satire is that is Should be funny. too often it is not.

You ant to see them Veya?


My apologies again for posting them

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/04/07/irans-latest-holocaust-denial-cartoon-contest-gets-839-submissions/

Brasidas wrote:You ant to see them Veya?


My apologies again for posting them

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/04/07/irans-latest-holocaust-denial-cartoon-contest-gets-839-submissions/

Somehow I think this one was drawn by someone living a bit closer to me:

Brasidas wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:It's disgusting and people that draw up these cartoons only inflame the situation and make things worse. It's time they took some responsibility for what they do instead of shouting it's free speech and we can draw what we like.
Cuts both ways though.

And there you have the left excusing holocaust denial based off now others being critical of man and places them in comparison.

You do realise that this competition was sparked because of Charlie Hebdo
So there is no excuse for Iran doing this other than pure Holocaust denial and hate towards the Jews and Irn proves why he excuses this. It is free speech and I back free speech to draw hat people like, what I am looking for is condemnation from the left and the UN. Nobody asked for this to be banned and never made any point on bans of free speech

So you are against free speech now Irn

Apologies for posting this, but just to show the poor excuse used falls flat:

What they ignore is the fact that Charlie Hebdo mocked Jews and the Holocaust, too: Below)

A Jew says: “In exchange for the creation of Palestine, I’ll accept a one million discount on the six million”. The six million is a reference to the extermination of six million European Jews.

You must have missed the point in that I was condemning this competition not defending it. I described it as disgusting but hey that doesn't stop you making things up just for the sake of argument does it.
Free speech is fine but all I'm suggesting is that some people should take some responsibility for what they do by inflaming situations with stuff like this and I'm sure I have seen you hold similar views on responsibility in that regard.
Well our country certainly see's it that way because we have holocaust deniers of our own in abundance and our courts demonstrated commitment to free speech when they ignored a EAW and sent Frederik Toben on his merry way instead of shipping him to Germany where he is wanted on the charge of holocaust denial.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/3562585/Dr-Fredrick-Tobens-arrest-should-alarm-us-all.html

Try packing in making out people are something they are not and you may get a better discussion going instead of an argument

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:


And there you have the left excusing holocaust denial based off now others being critical of man and places them in comparison.

You do realise that this competition was sparked because of Charlie Hebdo
So there is no excuse for Iran doing this other than pure Holocaust denial and hate towards the Jews and Irn proves why he excuses this. It is free speech and I back free speech to draw hat people like, what I am looking for is condemnation from the left and the UN. Nobody asked for this to be banned and never made any point on bans of free speech

So you are against free speech now Irn

Apologies for posting this, but just to show the poor excuse used falls flat:

What they ignore is the fact that Charlie Hebdo mocked Jews and the Holocaust, too: Below)

A Jew says: “In exchange for the creation of Palestine, I’ll accept a one million discount on the six million”. The six million is a reference to the extermination of six million European Jews.

You must have missed the point in that I was condemning this competition not defending it. I described it as disgusting but hey that doesn't stop you making things up just for the sake of argument does it.
Free speech is fine but all I'm suggesting is that some people should take some responsibility for what they do by inflaming situations with stuff like this and I'm sure I have seen you hold similar views on responsibility in that regard.
Well our country certainly see's it that way because we have holocaust deniers of our own in abundance and our courts demonstrated commitment to free speech when they ignored a EAW and sent Frederik Toben on his merry way instead of shipping him to Germany where he is wanted on the charge of holocaust denial.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/3562585/Dr-Fredrick-Tobens-arrest-should-alarm-us-all.html

Try packing in making out people are something they are not and you may get a better discussion going instead of an argument

Utter babble you whinging lefty.
You were trying to go off something that has no comparrison, mocking a man, which is far removed from millions of victims of the holocaust.
So you think people should take responsibility and bow down to threats from religious nutters?
That is giving into their demands of which clearly you wish to bow down to extremists now. the central message should be for the world to all print these cartoons to show solidarity to such stupidity, because Muhammad was just a man, and yet some Muslims seem to wish to deify him.
So you are the worst kind of appeaser going basically and the reason why this country faces such problems from people like you

Brasidas wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:


And there you have the left excusing holocaust denial based off now others being critical of man and places them in comparison.

You do realise that this competition was sparked because of Charlie Hebdo
So there is no excuse for Iran doing this other than pure Holocaust denial and hate towards the Jews and Irn proves why he excuses this. It is free speech and I back free speech to draw hat people like, what I am looking for is condemnation from the left and the UN. Nobody asked for this to be banned and never made any point on bans of free speech

So you are against free speech now Irn

Apologies for posting this, but just to show the poor excuse used falls flat:

What they ignore is the fact that Charlie Hebdo mocked Jews and the Holocaust, too: Below)

A Jew says: “In exchange for the creation of Palestine, I’ll accept a one million discount on the six million”. The six million is a reference to the extermination of six million European Jews.

You must have missed the point in that I was condemning this competition not defending it. I described it as disgusting but hey that doesn't stop you making things up just for the sake of argument does it.
Free speech is fine but all I'm suggesting is that some people should take some responsibility for what they do by inflaming situations with stuff like this and I'm sure I have seen you hold similar views on responsibility in that regard.
Well our country certainly see's it that way because we have holocaust deniers of our own in abundance and our courts demonstrated commitment to free speech when they ignored a EAW and sent Frederik Toben on his merry way instead of shipping him to Germany where he is wanted on the charge of holocaust denial.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/3562585/Dr-Fredrick-Tobens-arrest-should-alarm-us-all.html

Try packing in making out people are something they are not and you may get a better discussion going instead of an argument

Utter babble you whinging lefty.
You were trying to go off something that has no comparrison, mocking a man, which is far removed from millions of victims of the holocaust.
So you think people should take responsibility and bow down to threats from religious nutters?
That is giving into their demands of which clearly you wish to bow down to extremists now. the central message should be for the world to all print these cartoons to show solidarity to such stupidity, because Muhammad was just a man, and yet some Muslims seem to wish to deify him.
So you are the worst kind of appeaser going basically and the reason why this country faces such problems from people like you

So you are not against the competition just that you think it's disgusting. Same as me then.

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Utter babble you whinging lefty.
You were trying to go off something that has no comparrison, mocking a man, which is far removed from millions of victims of the holocaust.
So you think people should take responsibility and bow down to threats from religious nutters?
That is giving into their demands of which clearly you wish to bow down to extremists now. the central message should be for the world to all print these cartoons to show solidarity to such stupidity, because Muhammad was just a man, and yet some Muslims seem to wish to deify him.
So you are the worst kind of appeaser going basically and the reason why this country faces such problems from people like you

So you are not against the competition just that you think it's disgusting. Same as me then.

No not the same as you that in regards you think people should take responsibility for printing them.
I maybe mistaken but I have not seen on the news countless Jews around the world committing violence over this competition, have you?
I am disgusted at the competition, but I would never deny them the freedom to do this. You seem unable to understand the difference again with mocking a man, who was just a man, where countless Muslims murder because he is mocked.
That is what is wrong, learn to understand the difference

Brasidas wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Utter babble you whinging lefty.
You were trying to go off something that has no comparrison, mocking a man, which is far removed from millions of victims of the holocaust.
So you think people should take responsibility and bow down to threats from religious nutters?
That is giving into their demands of which clearly you wish to bow down to extremists now. the central message should be for the world to all print these cartoons to show solidarity to such stupidity, because Muhammad was just a man, and yet some Muslims seem to wish to deify him.
So you are the worst kind of appeaser going basically and the reason why this country faces such problems from people like you

So you are not against the competition just that you think it's disgusting. Same as me then.

No not the same as you that in regards you think people should take responsibility for printing them.
I maybe mistaken but I have not seen on the news countless Jews around the world committing violence over this competition, have you?
I am disgusted at the competition, but I would never deny them the freedom to do this. You seem unable to understand the difference again with mocking a man, who was just a man, where countless Muslims murder because he is mocked.
That is what is wrong, learn to understand the difference

Have a look at the situation in Gaza and the West Bank for evidence of the Israeli government doing just that.

I think the competition is disgusting and so do you. Same in'it?

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

No not the same as you that in regards you think people should take responsibility for printing them.
I maybe mistaken but I have not seen on the news countless Jews around the world committing violence over this competition, have you?
I am disgusted at the competition, but I would never deny them the freedom to do this. You seem unable to understand the difference again with mocking a man, who was just a man, where countless Muslims murder because he is mocked.
That is what is wrong, learn to understand the difference

Have a look at the situation in Gaza and the West Bank for evidence of the Israeli government doing just that.

I think the competition is disgusting and so do you. Same in'it?

Well lets look at that shall we irn, again Arab nations going to war over the creation of self determination of Jews, where all victims to this date are the consequences of that war. How Arab nations have left palestinian refugees still in camps all of which would not exist again with out the Arab aggression.
So you really wangt to go down this road as I am happy to show where the problem is and this is in living memmory and of countless times where peace has been offered and a state even for the Arabs to reject this by their leadership.
So agin you avoid my points and are the worst kind of appeaser and what makes this country so bad today

Brasidas wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

No not the same as you that in regards you think people should take responsibility for printing them.
I maybe mistaken but I have not seen on the news countless Jews around the world committing violence over this competition, have you?
I am disgusted at the competition, but I would never deny them the freedom to do this. You seem unable to understand the difference again with mocking a man, who was just a man, where countless Muslims murder because he is mocked.
That is what is wrong, learn to understand the difference

Have a look at the situation in Gaza and the West Bank for evidence of the Israeli government doing just that.

I think the competition is disgusting and so do you. Same in'it?

Well lets look at that shall we irn, again Arab nations going to war over the creation of self determination of Jews, where all victims to this date are the consequences of that war. How Arab nations have left palestinian refugees still in camps all of which would not exist again with out the Arab aggression.
So you really wangt to go down this road as I am happy to show where the problem is and this is in living memmory and of countless times where peace has been offered and a state even for the Arabs to reject this by their leadership.
So agin you avoid my points and are the worst kind of appeaser and what makes this country so bad today

So tell me again what were the conditions for peace. Did they include Palestinian statehood? Yes or No?

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Well lets look at that shall we irn, again Arab nations going to war over the creation of self determination of Jews, where all victims to this date are the consequences of that war. How Arab nations have left palestinian refugees still in camps all of which would not exist again with out the Arab aggression.
So you really wangt to go down this road as I am happy to show where the problem is and this is in living memmory and of countless times where peace has been offered and a state even for the Arabs to reject this by their leadership.
So agin you avoid my points and are the worst kind of appeaser and what makes this country so bad today

So tell me again what were the conditions for peace. Did they include Palestinian statehood? Yes or No?

Yes they include statehood, 3 times in fact, where at the beginning they rejected this, then Arafat rejected this and so did Fatah
At every turn it has beent he Palestinian leadership denying their own people a nation.
So I see this is your only desperation now again after I have exposed for the worst kind os appeaser.

Brasidas wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Well lets look at that shall we irn, again Arab nations going to war over the creation of self determination of Jews, where all victims to this date are the consequences of that war. How Arab nations have left palestinian refugees still in camps all of which would not exist again with out the Arab aggression.
So you really wangt to go down this road as I am happy to show where the problem is and this is in living memmory and of countless times where peace has been offered and a state even for the Arabs to reject this by their leadership.
So agin you avoid my points and are the worst kind of appeaser and what makes this country so bad today

So tell me again what were the conditions for peace. Did they include Palestinian statehood? Yes or No?

Yes they include statehood, 3 times in fact, where at the beginning they rejected this, then Arafat rejected this and so did Fatah
At every turn it has beent he Palestinian leadership denying their own people a nation.
So I see this is your only desperation now again after I have exposed for the worst kind os appeaser.

No it hasn't it never has included statehood.

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Yes they include statehood, 3 times in fact, where at the beginning they rejected this, then Arafat rejected this and so did Fatah
At every turn it has beent he Palestinian leadership denying their own people a nation.
So I see this is your only desperation now again after I have exposed for the worst kind os appeaser.

No it hasn't it never has included statehood.

Yes it has and at present in both the West bank and gaza they have rulling Goverments. How would that even be possible if they were under occupation.
Look best you leave to people that actually understand and have studied this as it is very clear you no bugger all.
So you are saying in 1948 it was not gievn the chance of statehood?
What did they choose instead Irn?

War and they lost

So I guess the Muslims don't get to blow people up or shoot them over cartoons of the prophet anymore?

Nems wrote:So I guess the Muslims don't get to blow people up or shoot them over cartoons of the prophet anymore?

Morning Nems

Which is my point.
Where is all the Jews of the world rioting and killing people over this?

Brasidas wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Yes they include statehood, 3 times in fact, where at the beginning they rejected this, then Arafat rejected this and so did Fatah
At every turn it has beent he Palestinian leadership denying their own people a nation.
So I see this is your only desperation now again after I have exposed for the worst kind os appeaser.

No it hasn't it never has included statehood.

Yes it has and at present in both the West bank and gaza they have rulling Goverments. How would that even be possible if they were under occupation.
Look best you leave to people that actually understand and have studied this as it is very clear you no bugger all.
So you are saying in 1948 it was not gievn the chance of statehood?
What did they choose instead Irn?

War and they lost

Statehood has never been on the table not then not not ever. Run their own affairs under conditions imposed on them but not statehood - the Israeli government says so even now or did you miss that?

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Yes it has and at present in both the West bank and gaza they have rulling Goverments. How would that even be possible if they were under occupation.
Look best you leave to people that actually understand and have studied this as it is very clear you no bugger all.
So you are saying in 1948 it was not gievn the chance of statehood?
What did they choose instead Irn?

War and they lost

Statehood has never been on the table not then not not ever. Run their own affairs under conditions imposed on them but not statehood - the Israeli government says so even now or did you miss that?

Yes it has are you claiming it was not in 1948?
Stop avoiding the questions which you do in every single debate

You are clutching at straws because you would rather have a Theocratic Muslim country in power.
So do you back either Fatah or Hamas to form a nation based on laws that go against the equality and well being of its citizens?
One major thing is needed before they are granted statehood, and that is democracy and equality in their laws.
You surely agree on this?

Brasidas wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Yes it has and at present in both the West bank and gaza they have rulling Goverments. How would that even be possible if they were under occupation.
Look best you leave to people that actually understand and have studied this as it is very clear you no bugger all.
So you are saying in 1948 it was not gievn the chance of statehood?
What did they choose instead Irn?

War and they lost

Statehood has never been on the table not then not not ever. Run their own affairs under conditions imposed on them but not statehood - the Israeli government says so even now or did you miss that?

Yes it has are you claiming it was not in 1948?
Stop avoiding the questions which you do in every single debate

You are clutching at straws because you would rather have a Theocratic Muslim country in power.
So do you back either Fatah or Hamas to form a nation based on laws that go against the equality and well being of its citizens?
One major thing is needed before they are granted statehood, and that is democracy and equality in their laws.
You surely agree on this?

I'm for them being given the chance of statehood and self determination same as Israel. Are you against that?
And who are we to impose conditions on them when we don't impose conditions on many other countries in the world who have a state of their own but have terrible human rights records but we sell them guns, bombs, jet fighters and missiles?
Israel isn't exactly immune from criticism itself in that regard is it as they also sell arms to countries with terrible human rights records.

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Yes it has are you claiming it was not in 1948?
Stop avoiding the questions which you do in every single debate

You are clutching at straws because you would rather have a Theocratic Muslim country in power.
So do you back either Fatah or Hamas to form a nation based on laws that go against the equality and well being of its citizens?
One major thing is needed before they are granted statehood, and that is democracy and equality in their laws.
You surely agree on this?

I'm for them being given the chance of statehood and self determination same as Israel. Are you against that?
And who are we to impose conditions on them when we don't impose conditions on many other countries in the world who have a state of their own but have terrible human rights records but we sell them guns, bombs, jet fighters and missiles?
Israel isn't exactly immune from criticism itself in that regard is it as they also sell arms to countries with terrible human rights records.

Am not against self determination for the Palestinians, but again it has to be created around the well being and equality of its citizens, as otherwise you forfeit any Liberal standing and views on equality that you have. This should be part of the negotiation for the formation of such a state. Its not about imposing at all, where did I say that? If you allow such a creation you are endorsing discrmination on a national level for a country.So you are happy for a state to be formed which has laws based on mythical religion and goes against the equality and wel being of its citizens then? Moot point on other nations as they are already created, I would have never allowed both Afghanistan or Iraq to create laws which go against the well being and equality of its people. i would have ensured they were based on equality. Otherwise what is the point in standing for equality if you allow nations to form backward laws that discrminate? Never claimed Israel is not without fault, but at least they are democratic and have equality laws. So do you back equality or do you forego this for a nation based on myths with its creation?


I see you keep diverging to new points after new points because you become unstuck at every turn

Brasidas wrote:

Palestinians Rejected Statehood Three Times, Claim Frustration -- with Israel

Palestinian spokesmen from PLO leader Mahmoud Abbas on down have expressed their frustration with the Oslo peace process, charging that it failed and is dead, thanks to alleged Israeli intransigence, and that therefore they have no choice but to go to the United Nations to seek full membership and therefore statehood.   It should be noted at the outset that for the Palestinians to unilaterally declare statehood, or even to take the issue to the United Nations, would be a grave violation of the PLO's signed agreements with Israel, which explicitly barred such unilateral actions and appeals to outside parties. All of these agreements were also witnessed by outside parties including the United States, Russia, Norway, the EU, etc. If any of these countries now go along with material violations of agreements that they witnessed, that would raise serious questions about the worth of such agreements and the worth of such witnessing.   As for Palestinian frustration, they may indeed be frustrated with more than 18 years of on-again, off-again negotiations, but the question is with whom should they be frustrated – Israel, or their own leaders? For the fact is, just as the legendary Israeli diplomat Abba Eban once said about relations between the Arabs and Israel, "The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity," and there have been many statehood opportunities that Palestinian leaders have wilfully missed.   Why do the Palestinians refuse a negotiated peace? Because a negotiated peace means the end of the conflict, or at least promising to end the conflict and accept Israel. But the Palestinian leadership wants a state so that they can continue the conflict from a stronger position. In particular, they want a state and they want to keep pressing in every way for the "right of return" to Israel.   Israel would not agree to that in negotiations, which is why Palestinians want a state without negotiations, and without having to make any compromises. In accord with this, at least three times the Palestinians have refused statehood when it was offered to them, most recently just a few years ago. Here are the details: 1. In 2008, after extensive talks, then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert met with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and presented a comprehensive peace plan. Olmert's plan would have annexed the major Israeli settlements to Israel and in return given equivalent Israeli territory to the Palestinians, and would have divided Jerusalem. Numerous settlements including Ofra, Elon Moreh, Beit El and Kiryat Arba would have been evacuated, and Hebron would have been abandoned. Tens of thousands of settlers would have been uprooted. Olmert even says preliminary agreement had been reached with Abbas on refugees and the Palestinian claim to a "right of return." Olmert recounted much of this in an interview with Greg Sheridan in the Australian newspaper: From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations. On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan. It was based on the following principles. One, there would be a territorial solution to the conflict on the basis of the 1967 borders with minor modifications on both sides. Israel will claim part of the West Bank where there have been demographic changes over the last 40 years... And four, there were security issues. [Olmert says he showed Abbas a map, which embodied all these plans. Abbas wanted to take the map away. Olmert agreed, so long as they both signed the map. It was, from Olmert's point of view, a final offer, not a basis for future negotiation. But Abbas could not commit. Instead, he said he would come with experts the next day.] He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again. (Nov. 28, 2009) And this is not just a self-serving claim by Olmert – Abbas, in an interview with Jackson Diehl of the Washington Post, confirmed the outlines of the Olmert offer and that he turned it down: In our meeting Wednesday, Abbas acknowledged that Olmert had shown him a map proposing a Palestinian state on 97 percent of the West Bank -- though he complained that the Israeli leader refused to give him a copy of the plan. He confirmed that Olmert "accepted the principle" of the "right of return" of Palestinian refugees -- something no previous Israeli prime minister had done -- and offered to resettle thousands in Israel. In all, Olmert's peace offer was more generous to the Palestinians than either that of Bush or Bill Clinton; it's almost impossible to imagine Obama, or any Israeli government, going further. Abbas turned it down. "The gaps were wide," he said. (May 29, 2009) Ha'aretz published Olmert's map, showing a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza with a free passage route to connect them. The map, which also showed the Israeli territory that would have been swapped with the Palestinians in return for annexing some Israeli settlements to Israel, is reproduced below:   2. In the summer of 2000 US President Bill Clinton hosted intense peace talks at Camp David between Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat and Israeli leader Ehud Barak, culminating in a comprehensive peace plan known as the Clinton Parameters, which was similar to the later Olmert Plan, though not quite as extensive. Despite the vast concessions the plan required of Israel, Prime Minister Barak accepted President Clinton's proposal, while Arafat refused, returned home, and launched a new terror campaign against Israeli civilians (the Second Intifada). Despite the violence, Prime Minister Barak continued to negotiate to the end of his term, culminating in an Israeli proposal at Taba which extended the Clinton proposal. Barak offered the Palestinians all of Gaza and most of the West Bank, no Israeli control over the border with Jordan or the adjacent Jordan Valley, a small Israeli annexation around three settlement blocs balanced by an equivalent area of Israeli territory that would have been ceded to the Palestinians. As chief US negotiator Ambassador Dennis Ross put it in a FoxNews interview: ... the Palestinians would have in the West Bank an area that was contiguous. Those who say there were cantons, completely untrue. It was contiguous... And to connect Gaza with the West Bank, there would have been an elevated highway, an elevated railroad, to ensure that there would be not just safe passage for the Palestinians, but free passage. (Fox News, April 21, 2002) According to Ambassador Ross, Palestinian negotiators working for Arafat wanted him to accept the Clinton Parameters, but he refused. In response to Brit Hume’s question as to why Arafat turned these deals down, Ross said: Because fundamentally I do not believe he can end the conflict. We had one critical clause in this agreement, and that clause was, this is the end of the conflict. Arafat's whole life has been governed by struggle and a cause. Everything he has done as leader of the Palestinians is to always leave his options open, never close a door. He was being asked here, you've got to close the door. For him to end the conflict is to end himself. Here's the Taba map proposed by Israel, which was once again turned down by Arafat: 3. UN Resolution 181, the Partition Resolution, passed in November 1947, called for the creation of a Jewish state and an Arab state in the land which at that point was controlled by the British-run Palestine Mandate. All the Arab countries opposed the resolution, voted against it, and promised to go to war to prevent its implementation. Representing the Palestinians, the Arab Higher Committee also opposed the plan and threatened war, while the Jewish Agency, representing the Jewish inhabitants of the Palestine Mandate, supported the plan. The Arabs and the Palestinians were true to their word and did launch a war against the Jews of Palestine, violating both Resolution 181 and the UN Charter. Much to the surprise of the Arab side, the Jews were able to survive the initial onslaughts and eventually win the war. The fundamental fact remains that had the Arabs and the Palestinians accepted the Partition Resolution and not violated the UN Charter by attacking Israel, there would be a 63-year-old Palestinian state today next to Israel, and there would not have been a single Palestinian refugee. Just as today, it seems that even in 1948 the Arab side was more concerned with opposing and attacking the Jewish state than with creating a Palestinian state. Besides the above statehood opportunities, there were other notable opportunities that were missed too, such as the 1978 Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt, which provided for Palestinian autonomy in the territories of the West Bank and Gaza. Egyptian President Anwar Sadat begged the PLO and Yasir Arafat to accept what he had negotiated with Israel, and to engage in talks with Israel. President Carter also called on moderate Palestinians to come forward and join the Cairo conference. Unfortunately Arafat refused and did everything he could to undermine Sadat and the Camp David Accords, with PLO gunmen even murdering West Bank Palestinians who supported Sadat's approach.   While the Palestinian people have much to be frustrated about, the object of their frustration should be not Israel, but their own leaders, who have thrown away opportunity after opportunity to establish the Palestinian state they claim to desire above all else.

No statehood - not ever and they are even saying it now. Run their own affairs yes under conditions imposed on them. Confirmed by statements by Israeli leaders time and time again and I'll show you where they have said that but not right now as I have work to be getting on with and I'm sure you must have as well.

Couple of other points you have brought up elsewhere which I would have answered last night as well if I had time but I will later. You really do have to understand that you are a very low priority and that there is life beyond this forum which involves work family, friends etc. However, if you choose to spend most of your waken hours on here including when you are work then that's your choice and I accept that.

Speak later

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

No statehood - not ever and they are even saying it now. Run their own affairs yes under conditions imposed on them. Confirmed by statements by Israeli leaders time and time again and I'll show you where they have said that but not  right now as  I have work to be getting on with and I'm sure you must have as well.

Couple of other points you have brought up elsewhere which I would have answered last night as well if I had time but I will later. You really do have to understand that you are a very low priority and that there is life beyond this forum which involves work family, friends etc. However, if you choose to spend most of your waken hours on here including when you are work then that's your choice and I accept that.

Speak later

Yes no statehood because of the Palestinian leadership and proves how much you are in denial. Imposed, behave, you are talking out of your backside and prove again what an appeaser you are to regimes that wish to destroy Israel. I am not bothered by your pathetic excuses as to why you do not respond either. You use the same onld lame claim to me being on many hours which is odd being as we posted hours apart, funny that, but you still throw in such a childish dig proving how inept your reply is and why yoy are just a complete waste of space.
So please stop wasting my time on things you are clueless on.
Again the Palestinians have been countless chances to form a nation and at every turn they stop this from happenning themselves and at every turn you excuse this.
That is what I find poor and why I have little time for such an appeaser.

I was at work so they wouldn't load

they are actually better than i thought
the winner is not half bad from a political artwork perspective


I think it is interesting that they do have some point in that certain Israeli lobby groups Do use the Holocaust as a sympathy card and it was a long time ago now and lots of bad things have happened since then too. The cartoons are better than I thought (although it is only a small selection) in that they aren't as hate filled or as history denying as I expected

I mean I interpret this one as Jewish Lobby groups using the holocaust as a political weapon against the UN Which is true to a certain degree.

you have to admit they are 'better' than half the comments under the article

Point?
Are you having a bubble bath?
There is never a point making a claim on holocaust denial as it seeks to endorse the worst klind of antisemitism. Whether some groups use the Holocaust is not a reason for others to mock all those who suffered in the holocaust, that has to be some of the most daft reasoning and is thus actually trying to justify antisemitsim and holocaust denial. If you want to condemn those Israel lobby groups, then fine, but do not use that as a reason to justify such hate, that is nonsense

Nems wrote:So I guess the Muslims don't get to blow people up or shoot them over cartoons of the prophet anymore?

I'm sorry, was there any time that was deemed acceptable?

veya_victaous wrote:I was at work so they wouldn't load

they are actually better than i thought  
the winner is not half bad from a political artwork perspective


I think it is interesting that they do have some point in that certain Israeli lobby groups Do use the Holocaust as a sympathy card and it was a long time ago now and lots of bad things have happened since then too. The cartoons are better than I thought  (although it is only a small selection)  in that they aren't as hate filled or as history denying as I expected

I mean I interpret this one as Jewish Lobby groups using the holocaust as a political weapon against the UN Which is true to a certain degree.

you have to admit they are 'better' than half the comments under the article

Think the one at the top is spot on, tells the truth without being hateful in any way, which cannot be said for most cartoons about Muslims, which set out to be as hateful as possible.

you sound like a Lobbyist Brasidas

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Nems wrote:So I guess the Muslims don't get to blow people up or shoot them over cartoons of the prophet anymore?

I'm sorry, was there any time that was deemed acceptable?

Yeah Nems WHEN did you think it was OK

veya_victaous wrote:you sound like a Lobbyist Brasidas

Did you need to go to specsavers Veya

I said any Lobbyiest group that plays on this are disgusting to do so also.
That means they are wrong also.
You though are poorly trying to justify antisemitism and holocaust denial off that, which is absurd.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

veya_victaous wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

I'm sorry, was there any time that was deemed acceptable?

Yeah Nems WHEN did you think it was OK  

Again where is the mass rioting and killing by Jews over these cartoons?

@Brasidas
How do the 2 i posted deny the Holocaust?

one has a photo and the other implies using it, both seem to accept that it happened and are more commentary on how Israel today use the holocaust as a Sympathy card.

I cant see how you are interpreting them as saying the holocaust didn't happen?
I'm Sure Some of the 800 odd entries would have been the one Ben posted clearly is but look on the bright side the winner and some of the others seem to accept the holocaust

veya_victaous wrote:@Brasidas
How do the 2 i posted deny the Holocaust?

one has a photo and the other implies using it, both seem to accept that it happened and are more commentary on how Israel today use the holocaust as a Sympathy card.

I cant see how you are interpreting them as saying the holocaust didn't happen?
I'm Sure Some of the 800 odd entries would have been the one Ben posted clearly is but look on the bright side the winner and some of the others seem to accept the holocaust

They are both using the holocaust and cast a styerotype depiction of Jews, how they look, the nose is the point that stands out and as if they are all the same, on one point it is utterly racist and two it is using the holocaust.
Do you understand why that is wrong?

Brasidas wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

I'm sorry, was there any time that was deemed acceptable?

Yeah Nems WHEN did you think it was OK  

Again where is the mass rioting and killing by Jews over these cartoons?

Where was the mass rioting over the Muhammed cartoons?

Go ahead, take your time and find us a good head count of how many people actually rioted. I think you'll be surprised.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Again where is the mass rioting and killing by Jews over these cartoons?

Where was the mass rioting over the Muhammed cartoons?

Go ahead, take your time and find us a good head count of how many people actually rioted. I think you'll be surprised.

Are youi claiming none did?

No detah threats as well all around the world?

take your time Ben

Brasidas wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Again where is the mass rioting and killing by Jews over these cartoons?

Where was the mass rioting over the Muhammed cartoons?

Go ahead, take your time and find us a good head count of how many people actually rioted. I think you'll be surprised.

Are youi claiming none did?

No detah threats as well all around the world?

take your time Ben

If I was claiming none did, I wouldn't be asking for a head count, would I? Of course some did. But if you look it up and compare it to the entire global Muslim population ... I think you know where this is going.

Just one example:

At least 10 people have died in protests and riots around the Islamic world, as demonstrations showed no signs of easing over the “survivor issue” of the French satiric weekly
Read more:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/19/islamic-riots-kill-as-charlie-hebdo-prophet-muhamm/#!#ixzz3XT69mXWI
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/19/islamic-riots-kill-as-charlie-hebdo-prophet-muhamm/#!


Stop talking bollocks Ben, now show many how many Jews?

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Are youi claiming none did?

No detah threats as well all around the world?

take your time Ben

If I was claiming none did, I wouldn't be asking for a head count, would I? Of course some did. But if you look it up and compare it to the entire global Muslim population ... I think you know where this is going.

So your absurd view is that not all Muslims do?
Never claimed all Muslims do, my view is one a substantial amount of Muslims do.
Seriously is that your counter argument?
Why are any rioting and we are not even talking about one or two but thousands.
That is absurd for people to commit and act violently, not one but countless times over a man.

Brasidas wrote:Just one example:

At least 10 people have died in protests and riots around the Islamic world, as demonstrations showed no signs of easing over the “survivor issue” of the French satiric weekly
Read more:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/19/islamic-riots-kill-as-charlie-hebdo-prophet-muhamm/#!#ixzz3XT69mXWI
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/19/islamic-riots-kill-as-charlie-hebdo-prophet-muhamm/#!


Stop talking bollocks Ben, now show many how many Jews?

Wow, 10?

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Brasidas wrote:Just one example:

At least 10 people have died in protests and riots around the Islamic world, as demonstrations showed no signs of easing over the “survivor issue” of the French satiric weekly
Read more:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/19/islamic-riots-kill-as-charlie-hebdo-prophet-muhamm/#!#ixzz3XT69mXWI
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/19/islamic-riots-kill-as-charlie-hebdo-prophet-muhamm/#!


Stop talking bollocks Ben, now show many how many Jews?

Wow, 10?

How fucking disgusting to say wow, 10 people dead over a cartoon and you say wow.
What a fucking prick.
Tell that to the families that were murdered for no reason other than a cartoon and this is just one example

twat

Brasidas wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Are youi claiming none did?

No detah threats as well all around the world?

take your time Ben

If I was claiming none did, I wouldn't be asking for a head count, would I? Of course some did. But if you look it up and compare it to the entire global Muslim population ... I think you know where this is going.

So your absurd view is that not all Muslims do?
Seriously is that your counter argument?
Why are any rioting and we are not even talking about one or two but thousands.
That is absurd for people to commit and act violently, not one but countless times over a man.

But hey, at least they aren't Jewish, right? Then we'd have to start making excuses for their bad behavior.

Sorry, I'm a bit more worried about the people who have been killed in my own country in the name of right-wing politics lately:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/14/opinion/bergen-sterman-kansas-shooting/

Brasidas wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

I'm sorry, was there any time that was deemed acceptable?

Yeah Nems WHEN did you think it was OK  

Again where is the mass rioting and killing by Jews over these cartoons?

I'm not sure what point you think you're making Do you think that is an acceptable response? Do you Expect Jews to behave so poorly

I'm sure there is some(those silly papers is then other thread probably )
but there is not that many Jews in the world at least comparative to Muslims
a little under 14 million Jews versus about 1.8 billion Muslims
So per capita you have to multiply the amount of Jewish protesters by about 120

You also have to take into account that Jews are on average significantly better educated than the average Muslim Particularly in countries where there major protests.


ON the next post:
It is racist I will give you that.
I don't think Mentioning the holocaust or using it in art is any less valid or wrong than using any other part of history

I mean one of the famous images of the Vietnam war is an image of a young girl running form a napalmed village all her clothes burnt off... she is still alive today an her picture that was taken without her consent is on display in most Vietnam war collections... there are very few holocaust survivors alive and they are not using images of them and it is still decades earlier than Vietnam... why should they get more concern/care than Vietnamese Orphans of war?

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Brasidas wrote:


So your absurd view is that not all Muslims do?
Seriously is that your counter argument?
Why are any rioting and we are not even talking about one or two but thousands.
That is absurd for people to commit and act violently, not one but countless times over a man.

But hey, at least they aren't Jewish, right? Then we'd have to start making excuses for their bad behavior.

Sorry, I'm a bit more worried about the people who have been killed in my own country in the name of right-wing politics lately:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/14/opinion/bergen-sterman-kansas-shooting/

Pathetic counter, great you are concerned about only Americans, how fucking racist can you get.
So now you have proved you are racist and made the worst view possible over innocent people dying all because of religious bollocks.
Seriously, if you put a gun to your head and pulled the trigger you would miss your brains by a mile.

Very quick before i dash off, from the actual site of the competition:

The Second Holocaust International Cartoon Contest-2015

Regulation:
Technique: Free
Maximum Sending Artworks: 5 Artworks
Size: Artworks Must Be By Format (Jpg) Minimum 2000 Pixel By 200 DPI Dimensions
Paticipants Must Send Their (Photo,Full Name, Post Address, Email Address, Phone Number) Via Word File.
All Participants That Their Cartoons Publish In Catalog Will Receive One Catalog.

Theme in Cartoon Section:

We Don't deny Holocaust,We are not Antisemite
But we have 3 important questions about Holocaust:

1-If west doesn't know any limit for freedom of expression, why they don't permit the researchers and historians to consider Holocaust?

2-Why should Palestinian oppressed people compensate Holocaust. The people that didn't have any role in world war II?

3- We are worried about another Holocausts such as Atomic Holocaust( Holocaust in Iraq,Syria and Gaza)

http://www.irancartoon.com/the-second-holocaust-international-cartoon-contest-2015/#

OMG more appeasement and how gullible to believe that load of bollocks.
How anyone can even try to defend it even after seeing the entries proves how muchy Sassy hates Jews.

thanks Sassy