Israel Discussion

What I am most passionate about is in regards to being against discrimination.
My pet peeve is when people do not distinguish between groups/Governments and a nation, leading to the damaging effects this can have where it escalates to violence and hate of a people. I have never denied Israel through the actions of Ultra Orthodox/Right wing groups/Governments have done wrong from Israel but the Rhetoric is never distinguished between the people of Israel to the point the hate is always directed at the Jews. This is very dangerous and if you look at much of the Rhetoric it is the same that has been used many times to dehumanize people. You see it all the time for example when Muslims are dehumanized based off the actions of extremists. So when I see many stories, of which many are unsubstantiated, fabricated or blatant lies posted not just on here but around the web and with one intent to hate Israel and by proxy Jews, then it is very much a grave concern and all you end up seeing is a nation like Israel pushed further into a courner that could lead to further escalating damaging problems. To see claims made as if all Israel is racist are poor for example, the Rhetoric being used that the nation is inherently racist, which is so far removed from the truth which does not matter to those who are posting this and the damage is done, as people believe all this propaganda on the web. Do not get me wrong there are those pro-Israeli who do the same and attempt to dehumanize Palestinians, but as you will see I distinguish from the people by attacking groups like Hamas or Fatah, I do not go after the people as a group. It then creates a tit for tat situation and in the end it is the people on the ground and around the world that suffer based on all this propaganda.
I want some honest and genuine debate on the problem on the conflict, but this does not happen . I am not faultless here and would not even attempt to claim otherwise and what I am most passionate about is seeing and end to religious control anywhere, that people's lives are free from religious dogma controlling them. Our very Liberal principles are based on equality, which we should never forget that and we should all never shy away from wanting everyone to have religious freedom, as I have no issue with people having beliefs, as long as it does not effect others. I just cannot abide when you see things being used as a platform for hate and there is no denying when they are. If people want to show anger at Israeli groups and Governments that do wrong, then fine, I have no issue with that, but I will have an issue that seeks to make Israel and its people guilty and hated by such poor Rhetoric which never solves anything but makes the problem a thousand times worse.

For my part I am sorry if I have offended anyone with any abuse, I am again very passionate about what I believe in, but again look at the rhetoric, I have acted the exact same, when people target groups of people wrongly with hate and have acted the exact same each time when it has been Muslims wrongly cast alongside extremists and have defended against this many times. The only difference here is people are more accepting of allowing hate to Israel based off how its Governments behave and that is always wrong to allow also.

I have now said my peace.

Brasidas wrote:I have now said my peace.

Well said, didge.  Honest.  OK, now time out for just one footnote.

I have to comment substantively to one point you make, didge.  Like most Americans, I am going to look out for Israel.  In particular, as a former university professor, I am very close to the New York Jewish intelligentsia, and have many, many friends among them.  They are a very special people and I gravitate toward them.

But sometimes I feel like we Americans are being taken for granted by Israel.  Not that we need parades and such, but when Netanyahu admits he has no intention of seeking a two state solution, he goes too far.  I believe he, and Israel, has lied to us...and on such an important issue, it's unforgivable.

Your rejoinder is that Netanyahu doesn't not represent the whole of Israel.  Yes, but he is the decider, as GWB used to say.  All of those votes distill down to one actor, and he is setting a course that is irretrievable.  Moreover, I'm not so sure that a huge majority of Israel does not applaud the no-two-state betrayal, as I will call it.

Now, before you argue that I often rely on the argument that Republicans do not represent everyone despite controlling Congress, let me point out that the US is much, much bigger than Israel.  We have a certain phenomenon called the off-year election, in which liberal voters typically slack off and don't vote in between presidential (4 year) election years. By contrast, Republicans don't slack off, but because they are the minority they lose in presidential years.  The only time Republicans get any traction in national politics is in the off-year elections, when the vote is watered down to their benefit.  In those off-years, I can genuinely argue that Congress is not representative of a majority.  Smaller nations do not have this phenomenon.

Even if they did, Israel just got off a general election, not some off-year election.  Yet, it elected Mr. NO-TWO-STATE, hands down.  I think Israel is not wanting equality or any kind of fair deal for the Palestinians.  And...I think America has sniffed this out.

We are not going to hang Israel out to dry or anything, but Mr. Netanyahu had better look out in his reckless quest for war with Iran.  He might not get the next shipment of F/A-18s.