Left-Wing Antisemitism

Information on the role of extreme leftists in promoting hatred of Jews and denial of the Holocaust.

History

Tyler Cowen, The Socialist Roots of Modern Anti-Semitism
Extreme left-wing movements have often vilified Jews as capitalist exploiters.
Max Geltman, On Socialist Anti-Semitism [PDF]
Many of the founders of socialism peddled hatred of Jews.
David Cesarani, The Left and the Jews/The Jews and the Left [PDF]
Detailed study of extreme left-wing antisemitism.

Ideologies

W. H. Chaloner and W. O. Henderson, Marx/Engels and Racism [PDF]
The origins of Marxist antisemitism.
Werner Cohn, From Victim to Shylock and Oppressor: The New Image of the Jew in the Trotskyist Movement
How the Trotskyist movement became antisemitic.
Mark Strauss, Antiglobalism’s Jewish Problem
Dave Rich, The Barriers Come Down: Antisemitism and Coalitions of Extremes
The ideological convergence of far-left anti-capitalists and far-right antisemites.
Ben Cohen, The Ideological Foundations of the Boycott Campaign Against Israel [PDF]
Why extreme left-wing anti-Zionists are in the vanguard of antisemitic boycott campaigns.
Arieh Stav, Notes on the Dialectics of Israeli Antisemitism [PDF]
Paul Bogdanor, Jews Who Hate the Jewish State / Juden, die den jüdischen Staat hassen
Steven Plaut, The Scourge of Jewish Anti-Semites [PDF]
How anti-Zionist Jews promote antisemitism, often quite deliberately.

Countries

- Soviet Union/Russia

A. Mark Clarfield, The Soviet “Doctors’ Plot”: 50 Years On
Moshe Decter, “Judaism Without Embellishment”: Recent Documentation of Russian Anti-Semitism [PDF]
Thomas Land, Moscow and Anti-Semitism [PDF]
Stan Crooke, The Stalinist Roots of Left Anti-Semitism [PDF]
Soviet antisemitic campaigns during the Cold War.
Russian Communist Leader Denounces “Zionist Capital”
Russia’s communists are still fomenting hatred of Jews in the post-Soviet era.

- Britain

Ben Cohen, The Persistence of Anti-Semitism on the British Left
Excellent analysis of extreme left-wing incitement against Jews in Britain.
Alan Elsner, Race, Tolerance and the NUS [PDF]
Jewish Students Charge Left Groups With Anti-Semitism
Jewish Students Gagged at Leeds
Campus far-leftists, who once banned Jewish student groups, now silence protests against their own bigotry.
Leo McKinstry, [url=http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/8463/Leo McKinstryShame-on-the-left-and-its-vicious-hatred-of-Israel]Shame on the Left and its Vicious Hatred of Israel[/url]
Radical leftist intellectuals have played a crucial part in making antisemitism respectable in Britain.
Socialist Worker: Jews Killed Jesus
Michael Ezra, Anyone But Tom Hickey
The Socialist Workers Party defends antisemites and supports the violent destruction of Israel.
Oliver Kamm, Atzmon Watch / Atzmon, Mosley and Respect / Keeping the Faith / Respect and Antisemitism
David Hirsh, Openly Embracing Prejudice
Atzmon Slams “Jewish Tribal Activists”
Yaniv Halily, The Protocols of Gilad Atzmon
The British far left’s scandalous promotion of an ex-Israeli antisemite.
Eran Benedek, Britain’s Respect Party: The Leftist-Islamist Alliance and its Attitude Toward Israel
British far leftists tried and failed to unite with Islamic extremists on the basis of shared hatred for Americans and Jews.
Mark Gardner, Routledge’s Journal of Contemporary Leftist Anti-Semitism
Antisemitic diatribes in a journal issued by a respected academic publisher.

- Other

Jillian Becker, The Red Army Faction: Another Final Battle on the Stage of History [PDF]
Susanne Urban, Being Leftist and Anti-Semitic in Germany
Extreme left-wing activists in Germany demand the destruction of Israel and blame Jews for global capitalism.
Karl Pfeifer, “Israel Shamir” and the Austrian Left
Austrian socialists promote a Nazi fanatic.
In Spain, Anti-Semitism is New Leftist Trend
Radical leftist politicians in Spain vilify Jews.
Chavez: Israel Worse Than Hitler
Anti-Semitism in Venezuela: It is Planned
Venezuelan extreme leftists threaten that Jews “will undergo another Holocaust.”
Philip Mendes, New Manifestations of Anti-Zionist Fundamentalism on the Australian Left [PDF]
An Unholy Alliance
Australian campus ultra-leftists are so blatantly antisemitic that their Muslim allies are embarrassed by them.
IsraCampus / [url=http://www.isracampus.org.il/ALEF Watch.htm]AlefWatch[/url]
Documenting the antisemitism of totalitarian ultra-leftists in Israel.

Publications

Counterpunch
Counterpunch on Israel and 9/11
Jeff Weintraub, Lunacy About Darfur (in Monthly Review)
Robert Goldberg, Do the Right Thing
Documenting antisemitism on American ultra-leftist sites.
Kate Raynes-Goldie, Race Baiting
Antisemitic McCarthyism in a Canadian ultra-leftist magazine.

Non-Jewish Antisemites

Daniel Berrigan’s Speech to Arabs Stirs a Furor Over Award [PDF]
Report on the notorious diatribe by militant priest Daniel Berrigan.
Jason Maoz, Coffin’s Mideast Conformity
The antisemitic rhetoric of radical icon William Sloane Coffin.
Norman Podhoretz, Vidal’s Outburst: An Ominous New Stage in Anti-Semitism [PDF]
Deplores left-wing indifference to Gore Vidal’s infamous essay in The Nation.
William Grim, The Strange Case of Horst Mahler
How a founder of Germany’s Red Army Faction turned into a prominent Nazi.
Mr. Nader’s Baiting
Ralph Nader warns that the Israeli “puppeteer” controls the White House and Congress.
Norway up in Arms After Author Asserts Israel Has Lost Right to Exist
Jostein Gaarder’s vicious outburst against “God’s chosen people.”
David Hirsh, John Wight, Organizer of Edinburgh Stop the War Coalition, Pushes Antisemitism
What is Going on in the Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign?
British ultra-leftists cite neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers, blame “international Jewry” for the “hydra-headed monster” of Zionism, equate Judaism with Nazism and justify the murder of Jewish teenagers.
Geoffrey Alderman, An Old Enmity
Keith Dovkants, Anti-Semitism – and a Timely Question For Ken
Mayor Culpa [PDF]
The shocking record of former London Mayor Ken Livingstone and his antisemitic Trotskyist allies.

Jewish Antisemites

- North America

Rachel Neuwirth, The Chomsky File
The sordid record of the cult leader’s involvement with Jew-hatred.
Norman G. Finkelstein, Interview: A Man Sees Red
Norman G. Finkelstein, Interview: “Jews Are Immune From Any Kind of Criticism”
Deborah Passner, Norman Finkelstein’s Fraudulent Scholarship
Paul Bogdanor, Exchange: The Scholarship of Norman Finkelstein
Noam Chomsky’s disciple Norman G. Finkelstein dismisses the Holocaust as an extortion racket against Germany, says that Jews run America, compares Israelis with Nazis, justifies al-Qaeda, champions Hezbollah, speaks alongside Hamas supporters and gives interviews to Holocaust deniers.
Jonathan Kay, Trent University’s Problem Professor
Philosopher Michael Neumann admits to encouraging vicious antisemitism and the destruction of Israel.
Jeffrey Blankfort’s Hate Message
Sixties veteran Jeffrey Blankfort blames Zionism for the Holocaust and describes the existence of Israel as a “cancer” that threatens the future of the planet.
University of Michigan Distributes Anti-Zionist Book
According to former Green Party Senate candidate Joel Kovel, “the power-Jews have restored nothing so much as Moloch, the child-devouring shadow-form of Yahweh.”
David Hirsh, “I Get Accused of Antisemitism Because I Criticize Israel”
Academic activist Jennifer Loewenstein castigates the “the Neo-Jewish Masters and their allies in the United States” for the ritual sacrifice of human beings as a “burnt offering.”

- Europe/Australia

Banned Mag Storm [PDF]
The British magazine Return, edited by Uri Davis, Tony Greenstein and Roland Rance, equated Zionism and Judaism with Nazism. Jewish students and national student leaders condemned it as antisemitic.
Paul Bogdanor, The Mark Elf Files
British blogger Mark Elf portrays Zionists as ritual child-murderers and bloodthirsty psychopaths, looks forward to Israel’s destruction and warns that the world’s Jews are “heading for a disaster” thanks to their “grotesque culture of deceit.”
Jewish Pro-Palestinian in Hot Water For “Satanic” Israel Jibe
Boycott campaigner Deborah Fink regards the Jewish state as “Satanic.”
Michael Ezra, From Cranks to Clowns
Britain’s Jewish antisemites are now accusing each other of lying and bigotry.
Collaboration With the PLO: The Case of Abraham Melzer
German Court Rules on “Kosher Anti-Semitism”
Abraham Melzer, a publisher who sought funding from the PLO, and Hajo Meyer, an Auschwitz survivor who belittles the importance of the Holocaust, are Jewish antisemites according to the German courts.
Philip Mendes, Denying the Jewish Experience of Oppression: The Jewish Anti-Zionism of John Docker
Cultural critic John Docker inveighs against “Zionist control of the Australian media.”

- Israel

Steven Plaut, Uri Avnery Finds a “Fascist”
The fascist background of Israel’s most notorious PLO apologist.
Jonathan Rosenblum, An Israel Prize For Wagner?
The murderous rhetoric of Yigal Tumarkin and his comrades.
Paul Bogdanor, The Abominable Dr. Shahak
Paul Bogdanor, [url=http://www.isracampus.org.il/third level pages/Editorial - Paul Bogdanor - Israel Shahak.htm]The Legacy of Israel Shahak[/url]
Werner Cohn, Shahak: The Jews Are Bad!
Jason Maoz, The Wicked Son
The Blood Libels of Israel’s worst antisemite.
Alan Dershowitz, Neve Gordon Can’t Take Criticism
Susan L. Rosenbluth, Accusations of Slander, Plagiarism and Holocaust Revisionism [PDF]
Susan L. Rosenbluth, Prof Steven Plaut’s Appeal Reverses Earlier Ruling [PDF]
Neve Gordon defended the killers of Jewish children and then resorted to a Holocaust-denying judge to silence his critic Steven Plaut.
Steven Plaut, A Second Blood Libel Anti-Semite From Israeli Academia
Yehiam Sorek offers his support to discredited Blood Libel historian Ariel Toaff.

Left-Wing Holocaust Denial

Pierre Vidal-Naquet, The Fantastic Calculations of Paul Rassinier
French socialist Paul Rassinier was one of the first Holocaust deniers.
Pierre Vidal-Naquet, On La Vieille Taupe and Cannibalism
The far-left outfit La Vieille Taupe – led by Pierre Guillaume and Serge Thion – became a major source of Holocaust denial propaganda.
Abraham H. Foxman, Letter to The Nation
The Nation is caught running an ad for Holocaust deniers.
Oliver Kamm, Chomsky’s Outlets
Kamm exposes a Holocaust denier at Z Magazine.
Denying the Denial
CounterPunch has promoted and defended Holocaust deniers.
Professor Disputes Holocaust
Holocaust denial by 9/11 conspiracy theorist Jane Christensen.
Holocaust Denial on University of Haifa Chat List
Anti-Zionist Miriam Reik posts material supporting Holocaust deniers on an extreme leftist Israeli discussion list.
Adam Holland, Oregon “Peace” Group to Mark Kristallnacht With Holocaust Denial Conference
Oregon campus ultra-leftists commemorate an infamous Nazi pogrom by hosting an infamous Nazi apologist.

The “Zionist-Nazi Conspiracy” Myth

- History

US Holocaust Memorial Museum, Jewish Aid and Rescue
How Zionists saved tens of thousands of Jews from the Nazis.
Joint Emergency Committee, Program For the Rescue of Jews From Nazi-Occupied Europe
Zionist rescue demands during the Holocaust.
Zionists Debate Rescue of Hungarian Jews
Jewish Agency Receives Offer to Trade Jews for Trucks
The Brand Mission: Messages From the Jewish Agency [PDF]
Zionist Rescue Efforts: Records From the Eichmann Trial
Zionist attempts to save the Jews of Hungary.

- Origins

Soviet Antisemites on the Holocaust
The communist propaganda campaign blaming Zionists for the Holocaust.
Jacob Gewirtz, The Lie of Zionist-Nazi Collaboration [PDF]
Inevitably, the propaganda campaign inspired antisemites everywhere.
Sever Plocker, Zizek and the Zionist-Nazi Alliance
Former Yugoslav intellectual Slavoj Zizek has attempted to revive the conspiracy myth.
Sean Matgamna, With Hitler on the Road to Samara
A sane Marxist points out that the conspiracy myth is itself reminiscent of Nazi antisemitic propaganda.

- Lenni Brenner

C. C. Aronsfeld, Review of Zionism in the Age of the Dictators [PDF]
Louis Harap, “Zionist-Nazi Collaboration” Refuted: Lenni Brenner’s Trickery Exposed [PDF]
Michael Ezra, A Disputation With a Disputer
American Trotskyist Lenni Brenner echoed the Stalinist propaganda line on the Holocaust.
Brenner’s Complaint [PDF]
Bad Boy Brenner [PDF]
Mrs Brenner’s Boy [PDF]
Diatribe Against America, Jews and Israel
Lenni Brenner’s record of antisemitic activism.

- Jim Allen

A Curtain Call For Courting Perdition [PDF]
David Pryce-Jones, The Perdition Affair [PDF]
John O’Mahoney and Tony Greenstein, Exchange: The Perdition Affair [PDF]
Michael Ezra, Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign Remembers the Holocaust by Blaming the “Zionists”
Stan Crooke, “Anti-Zionist” Play Will Mark Holocaust Memorial Day
British Trotskyist Jim Allen promoted the conspiracy myth in his virulently antisemitic play Perdition.

- Tony Greenstein

Paul Bogdanor, Tony Greenstein and the Nazi Apologists
Michael Ezra, Questions For Tony Greenstein
Michael Ezra, Anti-Racists Against Anti-Zionists
Michael Ezra, Tony Greenstein: More Errors Than Paragraphs
British Trotskyist Tony Greenstein spreads falsehoods about Zionism and the Holocaust while praising antisemites and Nazi apologists.
Nigel Savage, Letter: Tony Greenstein [PDF]
Paul Bogdanor, Atzmon Versus Greenstein
Exchange: Greenstein, Stalin, Hitler
Exchange: Tony Greenstein on Mass Murder and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion
Tony Greenstein’s unique approach to fighting antisemitism includes the accusation that “Zionist groups... are seeking to replicate what the Protocols described.”

Other Holocaust Falsifiers

Jacob Robinson, The Arendt Book: A Report on the Evil of Banality [PDF]
Morris U. Schappes, The Strange World of Hannah Arendt [PDF]
Gertrude Ezorsky, Hannah Arendt Against the Facts
Walter Laqueur, Re-Reading Hannah Arendt
Michael Ezra, The Eichmann Polemics: Hannah Arendt and Her Critics [PDF]
Seth J. Frantzman, Confronting Hannah Arendt
Hannah Arendt – whose mentor was a fascist collaborator – pretended that Adolf Eichmann’s ideology was Zionism rather than Nazism and blamed his Jewish victims for millions of deaths during the Holocaust. Her infamous book was repeatedly exposed as a litany of falsehoods.
Goal Pinto, The Specialist is Almost Entirely a Perverse Fraud
Anti-Zionist filmmaker Eyal Sivan produced a thoroughly misleading documentary on the Eichmann trial.
Alvin H. Rosenfeld, The Assault on Holocaust Memory [PDF]
Dave Rich, The Left and the Holocaust
Dave Rich, Holocaust Denial as an Anti-Zionist and Anti-Imperialist Tool For the European Far Left
Michael Ezra, The Abuse of Holocaust Memory: The Far Right, the Far Left and the Middle East
The extreme left’s Blood Libels about “Zionist-Nazi collaboration,” “the Holocaust industry,” etc.
Allan J. Lichtman, The Terrible Whys of German History
Richard Breitman, A Nazi Crusade?
The ideological fictions of historian Arno Mayer, who pretended that the Holocaust was an unplanned result of the invasion of the Soviet Union and that most of the victims died from “natural” causes.
Shraga Elam and David Irving
Anti-Zionists “Debate” Hitler’s Guilt
Anti-Zionist Shraga Elam sends a friendly message to Holocaust denier David Irving in which he denies Hitler’s responsibility for Auschwitz. Then he debates the subject with his fellow Israel-haters.
Paul Bogdanor, David Stannard, Ward Churchill and the Holocaust
Other far-left pseudo-scholars who publish falsehoods about the Holocaust.

Criticism of Israel IS NOT Anti-Semitism... in fact it cannot be
Follow the logic if you can

So Israel is a theocratic nation? Or is it Secular nation?
it cant be both as the are opposites and it doesn't matter which it is.

NOW if is Secular than it is COMPLETELY Separate from any religion so there for saying that criticism of it is prejudice against a specific religion makes no sense.

If it is Theocratic than It is not Anti-Semitism because ALL true secularist denounce all theocratic nations it is not specific to Judaism.


What Does definitely cause warranted hatred of Israel is Hillel, JSA and a bunch of other Anti Secular, anti democracy groups funded by the Israeli gov't and interest groups. Preventing these groups from operating in our secular nations is not different than stopping any religious group preaching anti secular anti democratic rhetoric. Any group that open seeks to further a religion over the law is the enemy of anyone that is secularist.

and if you are not secularist you are just a shitty version of ISIS. And like ISIS, good people will hate you.

There you see a fine example of left wing antisemitism.
Nobody claims all criticism of Israel is antisemitic, but in many cases it crosses over as antisemitism, which the left as seen try to poorly deny.
Israel is a secular nation, which allows religious freedom, all its laws are based on equality, Liberal views within Israel and yet some of the left, the antisemitics would endorse both Hamas and Fatah to form a nation where their laws are based on inequality and discrimination.
At every turn we see the left be the champions of inequality.
Even worse to claim antisemitism is okay if Israel was an Theocratic state has to be the most idiotic claim a left wing extremist can come out with, which proves how antisemitic some people are. They thus invent a reason to allow for antisemitism, and they thus invent an inaccurate claim to Israel being Theocratic which has utterly no evidence. To then make idiotic and unfounded comparisons between Israel and ISIS is poorly and disgustingly trying to dehumanize Israeli Jews, further proof of antisemitism, where people try to dehumanize Jews, they are attempting to make it acceptable for people to hate them.
If anyone wanted more proof and evidence to Jewish hate, Veya just provided the perfect example of this

I have to go but I bet we see a reply trying yet still to make hate acceptable, watch this space.

Laters

IF it is secular than Criticising Israel is criticising a NATION and there for CANNOT be Anti Semitism which is discrimination against Judaism...
Can you see that there is literally no way that it can be Anti Semitism IF they are secular.

You will keep claiming it is anti Semitism, because I believe you are anti Semitic and Want people to hate Jews which is why you make them and their supporters look like idiots with the crazy rhetoric and childish behaviour and hypocrisy.... it is the only explanation as to why you would promote people to hate them so much. why you make them constantly appear to be hypocrites that think their shit don't stink and deny genocide occurs to others even though we have had 3 more since they had one (Bosniak, Rwanda and Darfur).

What makes you hate the Jews so much that you would go to such efforts to make them look like Assholes?

veya_victaous wrote:IF it is secular than Criticising Israel is criticising a NATION and there for CANNOT be Anti Semitism which is discrimination against Judaism...
Can you see that there is literally no way that it can be Anti Semitism IF they are secular.

You will keep claiming it is anti Semitism, because I believe you are anti Semitic and Want people to hate Jews which is why you make them and their supporters look like idiots with the crazy rhetoric and childish behaviour and  hypocrisy.... it is the only explanation as to why you would promote people to hate them so much. why you make them constantly appear to be hypocrites that think their shit don't stink and deny genocide occurs to others even though we have had 3 more since they had one (Bosniak, Rwanda and Darfur).

What makes you hate the Jews so much that you would go to such efforts to make them look like Assholes?

You see further proof that the left try to endorse antisemitism now claiming that Israel being secular means that it is not antisemistic, failing to understand Jews are as well as a religious group an ethnic group also. That is like claiming it is okay to hate blacks through those who commit criminal acts, which is what we actually see by some of the far right and yet we see the same tactic by the far left to endorse hating Jews.
Now it is fine to be critical of Israeli polices like settlements etc that is fine, but when you start to attack the ethnic identity of Jews, their right to a nation and status and make unfounded idiotic comparisons to groups that are hated like ISIS, you are thus attempting to make antisemitism acceptable. We then have the most idiotic claim to date, now claiming I deny 3 genocides have not occurred. This is ho disingenuous the left are, they invent accusations onto me that have no bases to further back their Jewish hate. So defending now against antisemitism is now claiming I hate Jews. You cannot make it up how stupid some of the left really are. Seriously PMSL at that desperation.

See I told you how the extremist left prove how much they are antisemitic.

That was very easy.

Laters

but Jews are not a nation
Is Israel is Only representing Jews and not the native Arabs in the area then It should be Spoken against it is not anti-Semitic to defend Israelis. And Israelis don't have to be Jewish

SO Judaism Gets no special treatment
It is a fairytale that someone can Choose to believe in if they want (however You have said you'd prefer them exterminated and Rape to still exist in previous threads)
they are not an true ethnicity as they do not have common genetic factors and they are NOT from a common geographic area.. to suggest this group is a separate ethnicity is anti-Semitism. Jews are people they are no different than anyone else they definitely are not different enough to get their own ethnicity.


who is defending Anti-Semitism it doesn't seem to exist on this site all I can see is much warranted criticism of a state that is involved in crimes against humanity ... You promote Anti-Semitism by saying anti-Semitism about stuff that clearly isn't by trying to constantly deflect from the crimes of Israel and by promoting stereotypes of Jews as hate filled racists hypocrites that murder Arab children and believe they are entitle by their stupid sky giant to do it and will then claim discrimination when someone speaks out against they way the discriminate. You literally take everything the Neo-Nazi or Fundamentalist Muslim says a Zionist will do and do it. You literally sit there making the exact hypocritical statements as the Stereotype of the Israeli Zionist.


Clearly while I dislike Israel you are promoting hate toward all Jews..... which is in line with you previous stated desire to have all religion destroyed so I guess you are not a hypocrite by trying to get people to hate Jews

Now if ever anyone wanted further proof Veya is antisemitic, there it is written above. He is now denying Jews are an ethnic group which is denying their status. That is as antisemitic as you can get .You see the argument now centers to origins to the area, where Arabs are not native either having conquered the area 1400 years ago. This is an attempt to delegitimize Jewish identity.
That is antisemitism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_identity

Basically Veya is denying them their identity and claiming it is again acceptable to hate them through this claim by saying they deserve no special treatment, you can just imagine how Hitler would have been jumping with glee at such an argument.

He then claims there is no antisemitism and does not take on any of the evidence shown, and why does he do this?
To endorse antisemitism and make antisemitism acceptable. That is the extent we find with left wing extremism, where they deny antisemitism exists. He even admits to disliking Israel, which means he dislikes Israeli Jews, Arabs, Druze etc and thus adding to his racism. The evidence is there for all to see for himself and proves how I do not have to do much for the left to expose themselves to their antisemitism.

The 3D Test of Antisemitism is a set of criteria intended to distinguish legitimate criticism of Israel from antisemitism. The three Ds stand for Delegitimization [of Israel], Demonization [of Israel], and [subjecting Israel to] Double standards; each of which indicates antisemitism.[1] The test was developed by Natan Sharansky,[2] a Jewish leader and current chairman of the Jewish Agency for Israel. It was published in the Jewish Political Studies Review in 2004.[3] The test serves as a conceptual tool that defines the limits of legitimate criticism towards the State of Israel, its actions and policies and a non-legitimate criticism that becomes antisemitic.[4] Professor Irwin Cotler, a leading scholar of human rights, has said that "we’ve got to set up certain boundaries of where it [criticism of Israel] does cross the line, because I’m one of those who believes strongly, not only in free speech, but also in rigorous debate, and discussion, and dialectic, and the like. If you say too easily that everything is anti-Semitic, then nothing is anti-Semitic, and we no longer can make distinctions.”[5] The 3D Test of Antisemitism rebuts arguments which claim that "Any criticism toward the State of Israel considered as antisemitic, and therefore legitimate criticism is silenced and ignored".[6] This test has been adopted by the U.S. Department of State.[1] It has been criticized for lacking "sufficient rigor to be used without modification for scholarly or governmental purposes


Delegitimization
The term Delegitimization refers to the denial of the Jewish people right for self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.[8] This claim discriminates Jews by denying their basic right for self-determination as it was determined by the international law. Since any discrimination against a specific ethnic, religious, racial or national group is considered a type of racism, delegitimization of the Jewish people right for self-determination is labeled as racism against Jews, i.e., antisemitism.

Former Deputy Prime Minister of Sweden, Per Ahlmark, a leading advocate in the combating of antisemitism, wrote: “compared to most previous anti-Jewish outbreaks, this new anti-Semitism is often less directed against individual Jews. It attacks primarily the collective Jews, the state of Israel and then such attacks start a chain reaction of assaults on individual Jews and Jewish institutions. [...] in the past the most dangerous anti-Semites were those who wanted to make the world judenrein, free of Jews. Today, the most dangerous anti-Semites might be those who want to make the world Judenstaatrein, free of a Jewish state."[9] Prof. Irwin Cotler has define Delegitimization as one of the nine sets of what he calls "new antisemitism". Cotler uses the term "Political anti-Semitism" to describe the denial of the Jewish people's right to self-determination and the de-legitimization of Israel as a state.[10]

Double standards
The second 'D' refers to the application of different sets of principals on similar situations. If a person criticizes Israel and only Israel on certain issues, but chooses to ignore similar situations conducted by other countries he is performing a double standard policy against Israel.[8] The implementation of a different moral standard for Jews and Israel compared to the rest of the world, just like the Delegitimization claim, discriminates against a specific group and is labeled as antisemitism. Similar arguments were made by Thomas Freidman, claiming that Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movements that ignore the situation in Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran are hypocrite and antisemitic.[11] On the same matter, Freidman has also written that the "criticizing Israel is not anti-Semitic, and saying so is vile. But singling out Israel for opprobrium and international sanction - out of all proportion to any other party in the Middle East - is anti-Semitic, and not saying so is dishonest".[10] Prof. Irwin Cotler has also defined Double Standards as one of the nine sets of what he calls "new anti-Semitism". Cotler offers the denial to Israel of equality before the law in the international arena (i.e., "the singling out of Israel for differential and discriminatory treatment in the international arena") as a new antisemitic act.[10]

Demonization
The last 'D' refers to the portrayal of certain groups as evil, demonic, or satanic. The European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights (EUMC) has defined antisemitism as "frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for "why things go wrong". It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and actions, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits".[8] If the criticism uses metaphors, images or rhetoric that implies that the Israelis or Jews are evil, it is once again a projection of antisemitic Blood libels and rhetoric. One example of it might be making mendacious, dehumanization, demonization, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective - such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about the world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_Test_of_Antisemitism

Brasidas wrote:Now if ever anyone wanted further proof Veya is antisemitic, there it is written above. He is now denying Jews are an ethnic group which is denying their status. That is as antisemitic as you can get .You see the argument now centers to origins to the area, where Arabs are not native either having conquered the area 1400 years ago. This is an attempt to delegitimize Jewish identity.
That is antisemitism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_identity

Basically Veya is denying them their identity and claiming it is again acceptable to hate them through this claim by saying they deserve no special treatment, you can just imagine how Hitler would have been jumping with glee at such an argument.

He then claims there is no antisemitism and does not take on any of the evidence shown, and why does he do this?
To endorse antisemitism and make antisemitism acceptable. That is the extent we find with left wing extremism, where they deny antisemitism exists. He even admits to disliking Israel, which means he dislikes Israeli Jews, Arabs, Druze etc and thus adding to his racism. The evidence is there for all to see for himself and proves how I do not have to do much for the left to expose themselves to their antisemitism.

we will all remember that Brasadis believes in giving all religions or ethnic groups special treatment
So you support the establishment of sharia in areas where Muslims live in the UK?

and no one said anti-Semitism doesn't exist but it is the prejudice against Jews, not dislike of Israel. I have no problem with Jews, but the nation of Israel is evil. by equating Israel to Jews all you do is make Jews out to be evil, since Israel is clearly evil that is why some of it's citizens are speaking against it. You therefore do more to cause anti-Semitism by promoting hatred of Jews by saying they are the same as Israel.

If they are an ethnicity what is their genetic features. they are not because you have full blood Middle eastern Jews and almost entirely European Jews, two distinct ethnicities, Judaism is a religion. they would not meet the requirements to claim connection with any land by the standards we impose on the natives displaced by the British empire for legal native title claims. It is a huge double standard, and if we look at the allowing that length of time to make native title claims, England has to be given back to the Welsh as the Saxon took it after the fall of the original Israel.

neither veya or anyone else here is anti-semetic.

Cass wrote:neither veya or anyone else here is anti-semetic.

You are excusing racism Cass.
He just tried to deny Jewish peoplke their identity.
That is racism.
If this had been smelly denying the identity of blacks you would have been the first to cry wolf on racism and yet here when there is a very clear case of racism by some of the left you make the worst excuses.
This is why I am so disgusted by some of the left where here you try to defend racists.
I have shown countless evidence to what antisemitism is and to deny the identity of the Jewish people is racism.
Sassy is the worst antisemitic on here and if you cannot see her cause folr people to hate Israeli Jews, then you are as blind as a bat and you excuse thise racism out of liking them, that is disgusting
Stop defending racism

veya_victaous wrote:

Brasidas wrote:Now if ever anyone wanted further proof Veya is antisemitic, there it is written above. He is now denying Jews are an ethnic group which is denying their status. That is as antisemitic as you can get .You see the argument now centers to origins to the area, where Arabs are not native either having conquered the area 1400 years ago. This is an attempt to delegitimize Jewish identity.
That is antisemitism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_identity

Basically Veya is denying them their identity and claiming it is again acceptable to hate them through this claim by saying they deserve no special treatment, you can just imagine how Hitler would have been jumping with glee at such an argument.

He then claims there is no antisemitism and does not take on any of the evidence shown, and why does he do this?
To endorse antisemitism and make antisemitism acceptable. That is the extent we find with left wing extremism, where they deny antisemitism exists. He even admits to disliking Israel, which means he dislikes Israeli Jews, Arabs, Druze etc and thus adding to his racism. The evidence is there for all to see for himself and proves how I do not have to do much for the left to expose themselves to their antisemitism.

we will all remember that Brasadis believes in giving all religions or ethnic groups special treatment
So you support the establishment of sharia in areas where Muslims live in the UK?

and no one said anti-Semitism doesn't exist but it is the prejudice against Jews, not dislike of Israel. I have no problem with Jews, but the nation of Israel is evil. by equating Israel to Jews all you do is make Jews out to be evil, since Israel is clearly evil that is why some of it's citizens are speaking against it. You therefore do more to cause anti-Semitism by promoting hatred of Jews by saying they are the same as Israel.

If they are an ethnicity what is their genetic features. they are not because you have full blood Middle eastern Jews and almost entirely European Jews, two distinct ethnicities, Judaism is a religion. they would not meet the requirements to claim connection with any land by the standards we impose on the natives displaced by the British empire for legal native title claims. It is a huge double standard, and if we look at the allowing that length of time to make native title claims, England has to be given back to the Welsh as the Saxon took it after the fall of the original Israel.

Eh I do not support sharia courts, now you invent more bollocks, which is typical of racists.
The fact is when you cross over from criticism of Israel which often people do to hate Jews, it is antisemitism.
How do yopu think and why is it Jews are attacked and killed around the world?
because the message of hate is against Jews.
I am sick of the racism going unchallenged on this forum and all because it is left wing people doing this.
That is the reason it is defended. Well not anymore.
You see you are now arguing over where the Jews come from as if that is an argument?
That is antisemitic yet again and is like saying a Black person cannt be English because their parents are African.
You really are a disgusting racist

Aside from breaking out in an inexplicable rash, there’s nothing quite as worrying to me as agreeing with Melanie Phillips. In a recent Spectator article, the distinguished gobshite argues that, in deeming Israel’s military response to Gazan rockets attacks “disproportionate”, the Left is essentially complaining that not enough Jews have been killed in the conflict. And, almost against my will, I found myself nodding along to her predictably abrasive words.
As I’m sure is clear by now, every time there’s a flare-up of Israeli-Palestinian violence, the term “anti-Semitism” is thrown about with about as much precision as Hamas’s rockets. This is neatly illustrated by another offering from the Spectator, this time by Douglas Murray. With as much restraint as a starved goat in Paperchase, Murray and Phillips both brand the Palestinians, and all who support them, anti-Semites. Every time this argument is wheeled out, I try to dismiss it as the reductive nonsense it is, and, every time, I struggle.
As the latest round of peace talks approach, and John Kerry starts using phrases like “steps forward”, we can only hope that the past few weeks of sickening violence – of Israel succeeding in turning Gaza into a living jigsaw puzzle, and Hamas failing to do the same to Israel - are drawing to a close. And, without wanting to make a tragedy that I merely watched on the news about me, I’m hoping that my own ethics crisis will return to its dormant state, once the rockets stop.
I’s a problem shared by many left-leaning Jews like me. Whenever the western Left side, instinctively, with Palestine my heart says, “Jew-haters” while my mind says, “Shut the fuck up, heart.” But my difficulty, I’ve come to realise, isn’t with legitimate critiques of the Israeli government, it’s with the flippant use of the word “Jews”. This is something of which both Left and Right are guilty. In Melanie Phillips’s article, the use of this word, instead of “Israelis”, paints all Jews as Zionist fundamentalists. Phillips seems to have decided (on behalf of all Jewish people) that we are, at heart, Israelis. Likewise, Hamas and their apologists frequently use the word “Jew” instead of “Israeli”. In the past few weeks, anti-Semitism has escalated throughout Europe. And, as usual, those to blame for all of the problems in the Middle East, if not the entire world, are “The Jews”.
 
 
 
In reality, many Jews, myself included, are highly critical of Benjamin Netanyahu’s contempt for diplomacy. And to be even more accurate, the Left’s gripe shouldn’t be with “The Jews” or “The Israelis”, but with the current Israeli government. Of course, the racism of some Israeli citizens is obvious. And if there were such a thing as a Worst Person Of The Year Award, I’d nominate (collectively) those who are treating the conflict as a spectator sport. But these people are not representative of all Israelis, many of whom deplore their government’s use of violence.
And yet, throughout the most recent bout of violence between Israel and Palestine and all the others before it that I can remember, the problem of anti-Semitism on the Left has been illuminated. While you’d basically have to be a brick wall to fail to sympathise with the Palestinians, the Left (as usual) has gone very quiet when it comes to condemning Hamas. Either that, or they’ve actively condoned their actions. Although Lib Dem MP David Ward has since apologised for tweeting his support for Hamas’s rocket attacks, the fact remains that Hamas are often painted as the good guys. Hamas are not just anti-Israel, they’re anti-Jewish, which, can I just remind everyone, is racist. Their charter, which explicitly calls for the mass killing of Jews, makes this abundantly clear. I hate to break this to you but, if you refuse to condemn Hamas on this point, at least, you’re an anti-Semite. I don’t give a shit how much you love Curb Your Enthusiasm: you’re still an anti-Semite. Or at least an anti-Semite by-proxy.
Last year, Pink Floyd’s Roger Waters used an inflatable pig with a Star of David painted on it as a prop at a gig. As far as thinly veiled anti-Semitism goes, his veil was about as thick as budget toilet paper. In fact, the star was red, instead of the Israeli blue - brazenly representing Jews in general, rather than Israelis.
This notion that Jews should be ashamed of themselves over Israel isn’t exclusive to publicity-hungry, aging rock stars. When I was at uni, the student union implemented a campus-wide boycott of Israeli produce, to wit, one slightly manky orange. During the campaign, I remember arguing with one pro-boycott activist who proudly announced that her grandmother, right after the creation of Israel in 1948, had renounced her Judaism out of disgust. It struck me as sad that someone would abandon their identity because of the actions of a select few that share it. This incident, which lodged itself firmly enough in my mind for me to remember it five years later, is a perfect example of the Left’s insistence on Jews apologising for being Jewish.
And, for the record, I’m about as willing to apologise for being Jewish as I am to renounce my homosexuality. In case you’re reading my column for the first time, that translates as “not especially willing.”

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/07/left-s-insistence-jews-apologising-being-jewish-anti-semitic

If people refuse to combat the racism being promoted on this site, then I am going to continue to expose it and the people defending those promoting racism on this site.
There is a clear difference to being critical of Israel and its government and its policies than directing hate against all Jews through hate at Israel and people need to start waking the fuck up and realising that.

Cass wrote:neither veya or anyone else here is anti-semetic.

Ah well, that's Didge, can't get his head round complicated issues. He keep posting stuff about Muslim fanatics, does that make him islamophobic. Of course it doesn't, because he's pointing out what extremists do.

I'd me quite stupid to be anti semetic, as my great grandfather on my Dad's side was Jewish, and on my mother's side we come from Malta, which is a semetic country, as people are classed as semites if they speak a semetic language, like Malta:

Maltese (Malti) is the national language of Malta and a co-official language of the country alongside English,[3] while also serving as an official language of the European Union, the only Semitic language so distinguished. Maltese is descended from Siculo-Arabic (the Arabic dialect that developed in Sicily and later in Malta, between the end of the ninth century and the end of the twelfth century).[4][5] About half of the vocabulary is derived from standard Italian and Sicilian;[4] English words make up between 6% and 20% of the Maltese vocabulary, according to different estimates (see below).[6] It is the only Semitic language written in the Latin script in its standard form. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltese_language

Anyway Cass, just found this pic of me as a baby with my great grandmother, grandmother and mum, as you can see, shows how much I am an 8th malteser lol

How does that make me Islamophobic?
I am for many Muslims to be free from oppression which they suffer under some regimes, but hey lets deflect away from the very fact you deny Israel and its people self-determination, which is in every aspect antisemitism. It does not matter if you claim to have some Jewish ancestry, your views are antisemitic, when you deny self-determaination of the Jews of Israel and hence why i constantly point out your arguments are antisemitic. You though continue in this vein to incite hate towards Israel and by proxy against Jews. It is also your complete inbalance in regards to how you centre only on Israel these problems. How you ignore at every turn the Palestinians have turned down every peace process and refuse to back the right of Israel to a nation. You refuse to codemn Hamas who by its own charter wish the destruction and extermination of Jews, who commit the worst child abuse by teachings its children the worst form of anitisemitism.
At every turn you form the worst biased views and seek for others to hate israel. Israel in the form of Policies and its present Governement is to without wrongs done and rightly should be condemned, but at every turn you go beyond this. Mother fathers mother is Maltese, so what does that prove? My father was raised there and his Sicillian father fought for the British, where he endured the heaviest prolonged bombing of WW2 basically starving the people into submission of which they never did.. 

The more you continue with your antisemitism, the more I will expose this and if Cass who has no proplem speaking out to me on wrongs or the countless accusations of racism she failed to challenge from Veya continues to excuse your racism here, then she is then completely dishonest on every sense, because she places your friendship over racism itself. That is her choice and will show to me whether she is either an honest or dishonest individual. The evidence is there and exposed by many people of those on the left in regards tot he Rhetoric they use which is very antisemitic and even worse how they always fail to condemn Hamas.

Just claiming as she wrongly did that some on here are not anti-semitic ignoring the evidence and not even challenging the evidence is wrongly defending people who are antisemitic.

This article is written by an honest left wing individual and even he admits at where it is antisemitic in the discourse:

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t8756-the-left-anti-zionism-anti-semitism#171800

Now people can continue to ignore the evidence, but Sassy is 100% antisemtic and we all see where such hate leads to as only last year we had a poster state "Hitler should have finished the job" That is placing all jews responsible for any action by the Israeli Goverment and shows how the hate is firmly directed at all Jews.
Now I am willing to accept that Sassy is that naive and too ignorant to understand when she crosses the line of being antisemitic, but everyday I post the evidence around this, she needs to start taking note when she is and where even her friend came out with just about the most hateful comment as posted during the conflict. It proves beyond doubt how Jews are seen as a group and how they are hated.
This comes from those on the left just as we see with the movements in the US that champion the cause to deny Jewish self-determination.

Brasidas wrote:

Cass wrote:neither veya or anyone else here is anti-semetic.

You are excusing racism Cass.
He just tried to deny Jewish peoplke their identity.
That is racism.
If this had been smelly denying the identity of blacks you would have been the first to cry wolf on racism and yet here when there is a very clear case of racism by some of the left you make the worst excuses.
This is why I am so disgusted by some of the left where here you try to defend racists.
I have shown countless evidence to what antisemitism is and to deny the identity of the Jewish people is racism.
Sassy is the worst antisemitic on here and if you cannot see her cause folr people to hate Israeli Jews, then you are as blind as a bat and you excuse thise racism out of liking them, that is disgusting
Stop defending racism

I don't excuse racism. ever.

we have nothing more to discuss. good day

^sassy - I cant see it all on kindle but will look at computer later if not too busy at work. I LOVE old family photos x

Cass wrote:

Brasidas wrote:


You are excusing racism Cass.
He just tried to deny Jewish peoplke their identity.
That is racism.
If this had been smelly denying the identity of blacks you would have been the first to cry wolf on racism and yet here when there is a very clear case of racism by some of the left you make the worst excuses.
This is why I am so disgusted by some of the left where here you try to defend racists.
I have shown countless evidence to what antisemitism is and to deny the identity of the Jewish people is racism.
Sassy is the worst antisemitic on here and if you cannot see her cause folr people to hate Israeli Jews, then you are as blind as a bat and you excuse thise racism out of liking them, that is disgusting
Stop defending racism

I don't excuse racism. ever.

we have nothing more to discuss. good day

As I guessed you would answer and you place your friendship over racism.
That is disgusting.
You jumped in here making a defensive claim saying none were antisemitic.
I made a case that at least two are, where one denies the idenity of the Jews, the other their self-determination, which is based on the evidence of human rights lawyers.
Do not dare ever again judge me again when you have just proved you are the biggest hypocrite going where you cannot condemn antisemitism from two posters and even worse jump in and cannot counter the facts. That makes you culpable to their racism.
You just excused racism, period.

Cass wrote:^sassy - I cant see it all on kindle but will look at computer later if not too busy at work. I LOVE old family photos x

Me too, one of the things that made my Mum's funeral bearable was the fact our huge family all brought old photos with them and we all sat talking over old times and had a good laugh and a cry.   That particular one was taken in Grandad Brown's back garden in the Old Kent Road!

Your mother is lovely. What a bright, beautiful smile.

Thank you Quill, she lit up the room wherever she went. Found one of my Dad taken about the same year, he's still going strong.

@sassy, Your mother does indeed, have a lovely smile :-)

@didge, I'm not about to get into a slanging match with you but I think it's all too easy to stick a label on someone. I don't think sassy or VEYA come across as anti-semantic and I think Cass is more than able tot disagree with "friends" - she's disagreed quite hotly with me on more than one topic and probably will do again in the future.
I understand your points but I never think anything is simply black and White.

eddie wrote:@sassy, Your mother does indeed, have a lovely smile :-)

@didge, I'm not about to get into a slanging match with you but I think it's all too easy to stick a label on someone. I don't think sassy or VEYA come across as anti-semantic and I think Cass is more than able tot disagree with "friends" - she's disagreed quite hotly with me on more than one topic and probably will do again in the future.
I understand your points but I never think anything is simply black and White.

Sorry she is very much dishonest in this view point.
I have nothing against her but I will rightly call her out on what I see as poor analysis of antisemitism itself.
For one, one has blatantly on here tried to deny the Jewish identity of Jews that being Veya, which if someone tried to deny a black person being English all hell would rightly break lose on that being racist. Second Sassy denies the self-determination of the Jews, that again is antisemitic and I can easily prove this with evidence. So I am afraid people here are excusing the worst form of racism. Where on earth did you think that comment last year arose from in regards to a certain poster stating that "Hitler should have finished the job"? It is formed from a Rhetoric all too clear which clubs together all Jews as one behind any policy done by an Israeli government. Where Jews of which some are most definitely racist also claim all Palestinians are one and the same as Hamas or decreed they have no right to self-determination or tried to deny them their identity as a people today, all would be racist. It works the same way. The Palestinians may well be a new identity formed within the last century but they also have a right to an identity and when people argue on both sides around a view over who has right over the other to deny a right to a state each and self determination it is racism. There is no two ways about this. Again I am not going to stand by when there is blatant antisemitism promoted here. I have no issue with genuine and honest criticism of the Israeli Government or groups of Jews who are racist themselves, but much rhetoric is in effect and crosses over to be antisemitism. I more than anyone stand against racism and there is very much movements on the left that are antisemitic, which deny Jews a right to self-determination.

To me she at every turn always excuses sassy and that is her failing in my opinion and I will rightly castigate her for it, but there is no defense for Sassy here in her antisemitism and even worse I left the floor open for Cass to defend against my evidence, which instead she expects people to just and what I find even worse just take her at her word, which is being dishonest. That means I should just respect her view and thus then believe everything I have just debated and provided evidence is wrong based on her just saying I am wrong. It is not only insulting towards me, but is basically Cass calling me a liar. So from my point of view and this is not the first time, Cass is being poorly dishonest in a debate, where I would have had no objection to countering my view points, she never did and basically without saying as such called me a liar. That is the worst form of dishonesty, especially when I defend against so much discrimination.

I don't think Cass was calling you a liar?
I certainly didn't read it that way?

Anyway, my point is, sometimes we can dislike a group of people for doing something but that doesn't mean we dislike them due to their race?
I don't see it that way sorry didge.

eddie wrote:I don't think Cass was calling you a liar?
I certainly didn't read it that way?

Anyway, my point is, sometimes we can dislike a group of people for doing something but that doesn't mean we dislike them due to their race?
I don't see it that way sorry didge.

Well its simple Eddie, I just argued and used evidence to show two people (whether or not they are so naive to not realise they are) make antisemitic views.
Cass stated quite clearly that nobody here was antisemitic.
That is calling me a liar on every level and like I say what is dishonest about her reply she does not challenge my views or evidence and just states quite clearly I am a liar by stating nobody is antisemitic. That is her choice, but as stated I will rightly castigate her when even worse she did not even counter a single view point. That means she is being very dishonest in who she classifies as racist or worse fails to fully understand racism itself

Second if you do not see the connection to race, then you need to understand why Jews are attacked in this country and countless other places born out of hate for Israel.
I am sorry too you fail to see where antisemitism comes from Eddie, because if like any other racism it is allowed to go unchecked of which it certainly does in some Muslim majority countries, you fail to see where it often leads to, violence and death. One of the biggest arguing points of Hitler was to deny Jews their identity as Germans nationals and their national self-determination as citizens in Germans.
I am expert on many areas of history and I bloody well know what I am talking about on antisemitism being as this part in history was a major part of my studies. Hence why I really am disappointed when people fail to see the ugly face of racism itself

Fair enough that's your view. Im not going to try and get into a history debate when my history knowledge is terrible lol

I don't think Cass was calling you a liar though. I feel that Cass is the kinda girl who'd call a spade a spade.

eddie wrote:Fair enough that's your view. Im not going to try and get into a history debate when my history knowledge is terrible lol

I don't think Cass was calling you a liar though. I feel that Cass is the kinda girl who'd call a spade a spade.

I am not trying to sway your opinion of Cass or sassy here but stating how it is on this debate.
This is not personal but I will rightly call out where I see wrong in views Eddie.
By stating there is nobody here antisemitic after I have used evidence of two posters who argue off two antisemitic points is calling me a liar.
Its as simple as that.
Cass is a big girl and if she wants to defend Sassy, then fine, but the way she has done her is very dishonest indeed, when she has shied away from actually debating any of the points.
People can be biased with posters Eddie, it happens all the time, where at least you will know I will speak out even if I like them, of which Cass knows I like her being as we have always been there for each other, As I say though a real friend is not afraid to speak out at a wrong and I will never shy away from that.

Antisemitism: The Israel – Nazi Comparison:


Nazism is the epitome of evil. It’s not suprising that people gravitate to it in hyperbole. Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies, an observation about online discussion, holds that “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1″ (that is to say it will happen in any discussion eventually). Godwin himself has said of the rule that, “Although [it is] deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics, its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust”. This highlights one major problem with the inappropriate use of comparisons to Nazism; they trivialise the reality of the Holocaust.

What the Nazis did was far beyond other genocides (like Darfur). The Palestinian-Israeli conflict, even at its worst, doesn’t come close. The Nazis created an industrialised system to wipe out every last Jew. They moved people across Europe by train just to kill them more efficiently. The horror of the Holocaust goes far deeper than the fact a lot of people died.

Israel Nazis

When used in the context of Jews or Israel, it’s not just a really poor comparison; its use is designed to cause distress to those who survived the Holocaust or who grew up as the children of survivors. It’s like disagreeing with someone eating meat, and knowing they are a rape victim, choosing to make your point by comparing eating meat with rape and saying that someone who had been raped should know better. It’s not just a bad analogy, it’s applying a different standard to someone because they are a victim, making them a victim a second time.

Professor Yehuda Bauer is a leading expert on the Holocaust and the person who gave the address at the UN General Assembly’s first International Holocaust Remembrance Day commemoration (in 2006). He has noted the uniqueness of the Holocaust, saying that while it is important to compare the Holocaust to other genocides, in doing so one must mention that the Holocaust involved the creation of an industry to manufacture corpses. This is what makes it unique in human history. He explains that genocide occurs when one party is overwhelmingly powerful, and the targeted victim is nearly or totally powerless. He says “the Palestinians cannot overcome Israel with terrorism or rockets, nor can Israel annihilate the Palestinian population; it remains a bloody and difficult conflict, but not a genocide.” Please do read his paper.

The Working Definition of Antisemitism gives as one example of antisemitism “Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis”. The definition was created in 2004 by the European Union Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC), now known as the Fundamental Rights Agency of the European Union. It has received widespread international use, for example in its adopted by the US Government for the State Department Report on antisemitism, and in its adoption by the British Police as part of their Hate Crimes Operations Guide. The London Declaration of the Inter-Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Antisemitism, signed by members of Parliament from around the world, including Australia, also adopts the Working Definition and encourages its widespread use.

There are plenty of ways describe something as bad. There is no need to make a poor analogy by invoking the Holocaust. To do so specifically because the target is Jewish, or the Jewish state (i.e. Israel), is to use that identity as grounds for attacking. That is almost a definition of racism; using someone’s identity as a basis to attack them. Comparing Israeli policy to that of the Nazis, calling Israel a Nazi state, or saying Jews should know better and not behave like Nazis are all forms of the same racist attack. This needs to be called out.

- See more at: http://ohpi.org.au/antisemitism-israel-nazi/#sthash.9zd6ShJU.dpuf

On November 9, 1938, a massive nation-wide anti-Jewish pogrom took place during peacetime across the entire territory of the Third Reich.

The pretext for this orgy of violence against German Jews was the shooting in Paris two days earlier of German diplomat Ernst vom Rath by Herschel Grynszpan, a 17-year-old Polish-Jewish refugee.

The state-organized pogrom, instigated by Hitler and Joseph Goebbels, resulted in the burning or damaging of more than a thousand synagogues; the ransacking of about 7,500 businesses, the murder of at least 91 Jews, and the deportation of another 30,000 Jewish males to concentration camps in Dachau, Buchenwald, and Sachsenhausen.

This murderous onslaught against German Jewry, cynically described by the Nazis as the "Night of Broken Glass" (Kristallnacht), was a major turning point on the road to the Final Solution of the so-called Jewish Question.

It signified that the Nazi regime had crossed a Rubicon and would no longer be deterred by Western public opinion in its "war against the Jews."

The economic expropriation of German Jewry, its complete social ostracism and public humiliation swiftly followed. Jews were banned from public transport, from frequenting concerts, theaters, cinemas, commercial centers, beaches, or using public benches.

Only a fortnight after "Crystal Night," the SS journal, Das Schwarze Korps, chillingly prophesied the final end of German Jewry through "fire and sword" and its imminent complete annihilation.

Today, shocking to relate, the specter of such apocalyptic anti-Semitism has returned to haunt Europe and other continents, while often assuming radically new forms.

In the Middle East, it has taken on a particularly dangerous, toxic and potentially genocidal aura of hatred, closely linked to the "mission" of holy war or jihad against the West and the Jews.

Islamist anti-Semitism is thoroughly soaked in many of the most inflammatory themes that initially made possible the atrocities of Crystal Night and its horrific aftermath during the Holocaust.

For example, the pervasive use of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion with its perennial theme of the "Jewish conspiracy for world domination;" or the medieval blood-libel imported to the Muslim world from Christian Europe; or the vile stereotypical image of the Jews as a treacherous, rapacious, and bloodthirsty people engaged in a ceaseless plotting to undermine the world of Islam.

To these grotesque inventions one must add such more up-to-date libels like Holocaust denial which has become a state-sponsored project in Ahmadinejad's Iran and is increasingly pervasive in the Arab world.

Equally fashionable (and increasingly popular in Europe) is the slanderous identification of Israel with Nazism or the "ethnic cleansing" of the Palestinians. This modernized version of inverted anti-Semitism which sails under the mask of "anti-Zionism" and anti-Americanism, is today a global phenomenon, but it has special resonance in the Middle East as a result of the unresolved "Palestinian question."

The scale and extremism of the literature and commentary available in Arab or Muslim newspapers, journals, magazines, caricatures, on Islamist websites, on the Middle Eastern radio and TV news, in documentaries, films, and educational materials, is comparable only to that of Nazi Germany at its worst.

Yet the Western world largely turns a blind eye to the likely genocidal consequences of such a culture of hatred, much as it did 70 years ago. My own extensive research into this phenomenon has, unfortunately, convinced me that the Holocaust did not truly succeed in neutralizing the scourge of anti-Semitism.

In a sinister and sometimes devious manner, the widespread defamation and demonization of Israel has in effect revived fantasies of completing the murderous work of the Third Reich. This is especially palpable in the case of Iran. Hence, the anniversary of Crystal Night raises two fundamental moral questions for the future of human civilization. Are we at all capable of learning from history, and will the Jewish people once again have to stand alone in the face of concrete threats to annihilate it? On the answer to these questions much may depend.

Prof. Robert S. Wistrich is the director of The Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Anti-Semitism at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem (http://sicsa.huji.ac.il/) and the author of A Lethal Obsession: Anti-Semitism from Antiquity to the Global Jihad (Random House, January 2010).

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/2.209/comparing-islamic-anti-semitism-to-nazi-germany-at-its-worst-1.4854

Brasidas wrote:

eddie wrote:Fair enough that's your view. Im not going to try and get into a history debate when my history knowledge is terrible lol

I don't think Cass was calling you a liar though. I feel that Cass is the kinda girl who'd call a spade a spade.

I am not trying to sway your opinion of Cass or sassy here but stating how it is on this debate.
This is not personal but I will rightly call out where I see wrong in views Eddie.
By stating there is nobody here antisemitic after I have used evidence of two posters who argue off two antisemitic points is calling me a liar.
Its as simple as that.
Cass is a big girl and if she wants to defend Sassy, then fine, but the way she has done her is very dishonest indeed, when she has shied away from actually debating any of the points.
People can be biased with posters Eddie, it happens all the time, where at least you will know I will speak out even if I like them, of which Cass knows I like her being as we have always been there for each other, As I say though a real friend is not afraid to speak out at a wrong and I will never shy away from that.

Didge, why don't you come out with this irrefutable evidence that you claim to have that some people on here are antisemitic - dealing with each poster separately to avoid confusion. I personally have never seen anyone here deny Israel the right to exist as a state. Do you have that?

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

I am not trying to sway your opinion of Cass or sassy here but stating how it is on this debate.
This is not personal but I will rightly call out where I see wrong in views Eddie.
By stating there is nobody here antisemitic after I have used evidence of two posters who argue off two antisemitic points is calling me a liar.
Its as simple as that.
Cass is a big girl and if she wants to defend Sassy, then fine, but the way she has done her is very dishonest indeed, when she has shied away from actually debating any of the points.
People can be biased with posters Eddie, it happens all the time, where at least you will know I will speak out even if I like them, of which Cass knows I like her being as we have always been there for each other, As I say though a real friend is not afraid to speak out at a wrong and I will never shy away from that.

Didge, why don't you come out with this irrefutable evidence that you claim to have that some people on here are antisemitic - dealing with each poster separately to avoid confusion. I personally have never seen anyone here deny Israel the right to exist as a state. Do you have that?

Really, then why does Sassy argue over the origins of Israels formation of a state as if it had no right?
Yes I have seen Sassy argue that Palestinians should be in control of all the land.
Why does she claim Israel on a par with ISIS or the Nazi's where there is no comparrison?
I could go on the list is endless to her antisemitic views.

Should I bring up the view the other day on persecution to Christians where she tried to make an argument about Israel ignoring the 50 top nations where there is the worst Christian persecution?
This goes back to your question on the other thread.

Brasidas wrote:Should I bring up the view the other day on persecution to Christians where she tried to make an argument about Israel ignoring the  50 top nations where there is the worst Christian persecution?
This goes back to your question on the other thread.

Yes, please bring it up so that this evidence can be looked at in the light that it is antisemitism.

The other question still stands - name another country.

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:Should I bring up the view the other day on persecution to Christians where she tried to make an argument about Israel ignoring the  50 top nations where there is the worst Christian persecution?
This goes back to your question on the other thread.

Yes, please bring it up so that this evidence can be looked at in the light that it is antisemitism.

The other question still stands - name another country.

Every country in North and south America for a start.
I just did bring up the evidence on Christian persecution

Brasidas wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Didge, why don't you come out with this irrefutable evidence that you claim to have that some people on here are antisemitic - dealing with each poster separately to avoid confusion. I personally have never seen anyone here deny Israel the right to exist as a state. Do you have that?

Really, then why does Sassy argue over the origins of Israels formation of a state as if it had no right?
Yes I have seen Sassy argue that Palestinians should be in control of all the land.
Why does she claim Israel on a par with ISIS or the Nazi's where there is no comparrison?
I could go on the list is endless to her antisemitic views.

Bumped because it was missed and do notask me to trawl through threads we both know she has done.

Brasidas wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:Should I bring up the view the other day on persecution to Christians where she tried to make an argument about Israel ignoring the  50 top nations where there is the worst Christian persecution?
This goes back to your question on the other thread.

Yes, please bring it up so that this evidence can be looked at in the light that it is antisemitism.

The other question still stands - name another country.

Every country in North and south America for a start.
I just did bring up the evidence on Christian persecution

Where?

And have you condemned all these countries. If you haven't what does that make you?

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Every country in North and south America for a start.
I just did bring up the evidence on Christian persecution

Where?

And have you condemned all these countries. If you haven't what does that make you?

Oh I have condemned them, though am a realist also that demographics have changed as they have done in the Middle East.
Anything else chap or are you going to avoid the points I made on Sassy because you have no defense for her antisemitism?

Brasidas wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Every country in North and south America for a start.
I just did bring up the evidence on Christian persecution

Where?

And have you condemned all these countries. If you haven't what does that make you?

Oh I have condemned them, though am a realist also that demographics have changed as they have done in the Middle East.
Anything else chap or are you going to avoid the points I made on Sassy because you have no defense for her antisemitism?

I haven't seen this evidence yet where you said earlier that either Veya or Sassy had said that Israel had no right to exist. Did either of them really say anything like that?

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Oh I have condemned them, though am a realist also that demographics have changed as they have done in the Middle East.
Anything else chap or are you going to avoid the points I made on Sassy because you have no defense for her antisemitism?

I haven't seen this evidence yet where you said earlier that either Veya or Sassy had said that Israel had no right to exist. Did either of them really say anything like that?

Never claimed Veya said that.
I suggest you first read through the thread before you continue to engage in this debate which clearly you are showing you have not the first clue what you are talking about.
Sassy has argued that the Palestinians should control all the lands and yes she has argued this many times, let alone the disgusting claims to comparisons to ISIS, the Nazis and SA Apartheid, all of which insults the countless victims of all 3.

Brasidas wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Oh I have condemned them, though am a realist also that demographics have changed as they have done in the Middle East.
Anything else chap or are you going to avoid the points I made on Sassy because you have no defense for her antisemitism?

I haven't seen this evidence yet where you said earlier that either Veya or Sassy had said that Israel had no right to exist. Did either of them really say anything like that?

Never claimed Veya said that.
I suggest you first read through the thread before you continue to engage in this debate which clearly you are showing you have not the first clue what you are talking about.
Sassy has argued that the Palestinians should control all the lands and yes she has argued this many times, let alone the disgusting claims to comparisons to ISIS, the Nazis and SA Apartheid, all of which insults the countless victims of all 3.

I said Veya or Sassy. So Veya is not antisemetic then? Where has Sassy said that Israel should not exist as a state in it's own right and that the Palestinians should control all the land? You said you had it so where is it?

And the Isreali government say they should control all the lands in the west bank.

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:


Never claimed Veya said that.
I suggest you first read through the thread before you continue to engage in this debate which clearly you are showing you have not the first clue what you are talking about.
Sassy has argued that the Palestinians should control all the lands and yes she has argued this many times, let alone the disgusting claims to comparisons to ISIS, the Nazis and SA Apartheid, all of which insults the countless victims of all 3.

I said Veya or Sassy. So Veya is not antisemetic then? Where has Sassy said that Israel should not exist as a state in it's own right and that the Palestinians should control all the land?  You said you had it so where is it?

And the Isreali government say they should control all the lands in the west bank.

Here we go again with Irn's poor tactics to avoid this issues of the debate.
Again I suggest you read what has been stated, instead of wasting my time with your usual poor tactics Irn.
With Eddie its straight forward and to the point and and yet with you its like conversing with a 5 year old.
Never claimed I had to hand Sassy saying this, when I know she has, take that as you will, but I know she has which still does not answer the other points on her poor comparisons which you avoided again.
Veya was denying and arguing against a Jewish identity.
Now if you reply yet again with such an infantile comment then we know you are as usual attempting to spoil the thread as you always do, the poor tactic of the left.
One last chance.

Brasidas wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Brasidas wrote:


Never claimed Veya said that.
I suggest you first read through the thread before you continue to engage in this debate which clearly you are showing you have not the first clue what you are talking about.
Sassy has argued that the Palestinians should control all the lands and yes she has argued this many times, let alone the disgusting claims to comparisons to ISIS, the Nazis and SA Apartheid, all of which insults the countless victims of all 3.

I said Veya or Sassy. So Veya is not antisemetic then? Where has Sassy said that Israel should not exist as a state in it's own right and that the Palestinians should control all the land?  You said you had it so where is it?

And the Isreali government say they should control all the lands in the west bank.

Here we go again with Irn's poor tactics to avoid this issues of the debate.
Again I suggest you read what has been stated, instead of wasting my time with your usual poor tactics Irn.
With Eddie its straight forward and to the point and and yet with you its like conversing with a 5 year old.
Never claimed I had to hand Sassy saying this, when I know she has, take that as you will, but I know she has which still does not answer the other points on her poor comparisons which you avoided again.
Veya was denying and arguing against a Jewish identity.
Now if you reply yet again with such an infantile comment then we know you are as usual attempting to spoil the thread as you always do, the poor tactic of the left.
One last chance.

I'm not attempting to spoil the thread. You said Veya and Sassy were antiSemitic and that you had proved it so it's only fair that you provide the irrefutable proof that you claim to have.

If you don't have it at the moment then fair enough I'll leave it at that until you do.

Brasidas wrote:At every turn we see the left be the champions of inequality.

And yet your defense of practically everything Israel does ultimately seems to rest on how "liberal" it is.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Brasidas wrote:At every turn we see th
e left be the champions of inequality.

And yet your defense of practically everything Israel does ultimately seems to rest on how "liberal" it is.

Which shows how little you actually read any of these threads.
I am against the Israeli settlements within the West Bank for a start and they should all be pulled back.
But hey, do you wish to form a Palestinian nation in the form of the present two ruling parties of Hamas and Fatah who both are at odds with Liberal values and the well being of its citizens?
Again I wish for a Palestinian state, but not one formed and have its laws entrenched in inequality. No true Liberal would.

Brasidas wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Brasidas wrote:At every turn we see th
e left be the champions of inequality.

And yet your defense of practically everything Israel does ultimately seems to rest on how "liberal" it is.

Which shows how little you actually read any of these threads.
I am against the Israeli settlements within the West Bank for a start and they should all be pulled back.
But hey, do you wish to form a Palestinian nation in the form of the present two ruling parties of Hamas and Fatah who both are at odds with Liberal values and the well being of its citizens?
Again I wish for a Palestinian state, but not one formed and have its laws entrenched in inequality. No true Liberal would.

I think self-determination is a fundamental human right, actually.

As far as reading all these threads, they're becoming a little same-y

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Brasidas wrote:


Which shows how little you actually read any of these threads.
I am against the Israeli settlements within the West Bank for a start and they should all be pulled back.
But hey, do you wish to form a Palestinian nation in the form of the present two ruling parties of Hamas and Fatah who both are at odds with Liberal values and the well being of its citizens?
Again I wish for a Palestinian state, but not one formed and have its laws entrenched in inequality. No true Liberal would.

I think self-determination is a fundamental human right, actually.

Best you explain that to some of the lefties on here that then Ben.

Ben_Reilly wrote:As far as reading all these threads, they're becoming a little same-y

Well discrimination and racism may not mean much to you Ben, as for years I have been countering this with huge passion, as to me if you allow such hate to stand it only grows worse. So the threads may be the same to you, but to me it is a daily struggle to combat such hate which everyone should champion.