Neolithic agricultural revolution may have reached Britain 2,000 years earlier than previously thought

by Irn Bru Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:59 pm

Remarkable new archaeological discoveries are likely to completely rewrite a key part of British prehistory.

Scientific tests suggest that a major aspect of the Neolithic agricultural revolution may have reached Britain 2000 years earlier than previously thought.

The research - carried out by scientists at the universities of Bradford, Birmingham and Warwick - reveal that wheat, probably already ground into flour, was being used at a Mesolithic Stone Age site in around 6000 BC.

The discovery - just published in the academic journal, Science - is likely to be viewed with some degree of consternation by many archaeologists because it completely changes accepted views of what happened in Britain (and indeed most of western Europe) in pre-Neolithic times.

The species of domesticated wheat - an early form, known as einkorn - was identified by scientists from the University of Warwick, using DNA analysis. Although no einkorn seeds as such were found, a small discrete area of intense einkorn DNA was detected when geneticists tested samples of sediment, recovered by archaeologists from an underwater Mesolithic site in the Solent, just off the coast of the Isle of Wight

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/neolithic-agricultural-revolution-may-have-reached-britain-2000-years-earlier-than-previously-thought-10073458.html

Well I never. Bee, you there?

by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:33 am

Remarkable new archaeological discoveries are likely to completely rewrite a key part of British prehistory.

Scientific tests suggest that a major aspect of the Neolithic agricultural revolution may have reached Britain 2000 years earlier than previously thought.
The research - carried out by scientists at the universities of Bradford, Birmingham and Warwick - reveal that wheat, probably already ground into flour, was being used at a Mesolithic Stone Age site in around 6000 BC.
The discovery - just published in the academic journal, Science - is likely to be viewed with some degree of consternation by many archaeologists because it completely changes accepted views of what happened in Britain (and indeed most of western Europe) in pre-Neolithic times.
The species of domesticated wheat - an early form, known as einkorn - was identified by scientists from the University of Warwick, using DNA analysis. Although no einkorn seeds as such were found, a small discrete area of intense einkorn DNA was detected when geneticists tested samples of sediment, recovered by archaeologists from an underwater Mesolithic site in the Solent, just off the coast of the Isle of Wight.
The area was dry land 6000 years ago - but within 30 or 40 years had been permanently inundated by the sea, as a result of melting Arctic and other glaciers following the end of the Ice Age

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/the-remarkable-archaeological-underwater-discovery-that-could-open-up-a-new-chapter-in-the-study-of-european-and-british-prehistory-10073458.html

by Ben Reilly Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:02 am

I've read a compelling theory that folks like these Neolithic people are the origin of a lot of fantasy "races" such as fairies (faeries if you prefer). Pretty interesting stuff and it all goes to my theory that the idea of property rights dies at land ownership, because it's all been stolen from somebody else.

By the way, that's a great quote in your new sig. I totally agree, life has meaning because it ends.

by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:33 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:I've read a compelling theory that folks like these Neolithic people are the origin of a lot of fantasy "races" such as fairies (faeries if you prefer). Pretty interesting stuff and it all goes to my theory that the idea of property rights dies at land ownership, because it's all been stolen from somebody else.

By the way, that's a great quote in your new sig. I totally agree, life has meaning because it ends.

Thanks Ben

I like it too.

Laughing

by Original Quill Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:16 pm

Brasidas wrote:The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more.

Christopher Hitchens

If you fear death, consider all of the years you didn't have life before you were born. Been there, done that.

I like the signature too, didge.

by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:16 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Brasidas wrote:The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more.

Christopher Hitchens

If you fear death, consider all of the years you didn't have life before you were born. Been there, done that.

I like the signature too, didge.

I do not fear death Quill, hence why I embrace life.

by Irn Bru Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:13 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
Brasidas wrote:The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more.

Christopher Hitchens

If you fear death, consider all of the years you didn't have life before you were born. Been there, done that.

I like the signature too, didge.

I do not fear death Quill, hence why I embrace life.

I like that signature as well Didge. Just a pity that you have attributed it to the wrong person. Coming on the back of you 'Maggotgate' effort from a week or so again where you were a laughing stock pulling up that one from some obscure site followed by the last one where it should have been Yoko Ono and not John Lennon, this just shows laziness on your part by jumping on stuff you read on the internet and accepting it.

I really wouldn't have mentioned it but as a few people had commented on it I thought it best to clarify that it wasn't Christopher Hitchens who quoted that.

I'm sure you will take this in the spirit in which it is intended in that I'm only trying to help.

by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:38 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

I do not fear death Quill, hence why I embrace life.

I like that signature as well Didge. Just a pity that you have attributed it to the wrong person. Coming on the back of you 'Maggotgate' effort from a week or so again where you were a laughing stock pulling up that one from some obscure site followed by the last one where it should have been Yoko Ono and not John Lennon, this just shows laziness on your part by jumping on stuff you read on the internet and accepting it.

I really wouldn't have mentioned it but as a few people had commented on it I thought it best to clarify that it wasn't Christopher Hitchens who quoted that.

I'm sure you will take this in the spirit in which it is intended in that I'm only trying to help.

Dear me, I really must have you wound up to high heaven you detract off the thread and my signature to try childishly to score points again, because you are getting hammered on others.
That is what you call being a sore loser is Irn.
You tick all the boxes mate.
You goty battered on being educated on the Falklands war, why you weaseled off as per usual
Did Christopher Hitchens say this?
Yes
Then it is irrelevant what you think who said, it because Christopher did say this and it is him who I admire
So he did say this did he not?
It is in honour to him why I post that he did say this.
I never claimed he quoted it, I am putting this as something he said.
That okay with you mate, as I never made any claims on this quote, you poorly did because you clearly are wound up to bring up something nody did.
Ha Ha Ha Ha ha

by Irn Bru Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:42 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

I do not fear death Quill, hence why I embrace life.

I like that signature as well Didge. Just a pity that you have attributed it to the wrong person. Coming on the back of you 'Maggotgate' effort from a week or so again where you were a laughing stock pulling up that one from some obscure site followed by the last one where it should have been Yoko Ono and not John Lennon, this just shows laziness on your part by jumping on stuff you read on the internet and accepting it.

I really wouldn't have mentioned it but as a few people had commented on it I thought it best to clarify that it wasn't Christopher Hitchens who quoted that.

I'm sure you will take this in the spirit in which it is intended in that I'm only trying to help.

Dear me, I really must have you wound up to high heaven you detract off the thread and my signature to try childishly to score points again, because you are getting hammered on others.
That is what you call being a sore loser is Irn.
You tick all the boxes mate.
You goty battered on being educated on the Falklands war, why you weaseled off as per usual
Did Christopher Hitchens say this?
Yes
Then it is irrelevant what you think who said, it because Christopher did say this and it is him who I admire
So he did say this did he not?
It is in honour to him why I post that he did say this.
I never claimed he quoted it, I am putting this as something he said.
That okay with you mate, as I never made any claims on this quote, you poorly did because you clearly are wound up to bring up something nody did.
Ha Ha Ha Ha ha

Afraid not Didge. That quote wasn't from Christopher Hitchens and I'm disappointed that you didn't take what I said in the spirit in which it was intended.

Have you got his book 'The Portable Atheist' handy?

by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:45 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Dear me, I really must have you wound up to high heaven you detract off the thread and my signature to try childishly to score points again, because you are getting hammered on others.
That is what you call being a sore loser is Irn.
You tick all the boxes mate.
You goty battered on being educated on the Falklands war, why you weaseled off as per usual
Did Christopher Hitchens say this?
Yes
Then it is irrelevant what you think who said, it because Christopher did say this and it is him who I admire
So he did say this did he not?
It is in honour to him why I post that he did say this.
I never claimed he quoted it, I am putting this as something he said.
That okay with you mate, as I never made any claims on this quote, you poorly did because you clearly are wound up to bring up something nody did.
Ha Ha Ha Ha ha

Afraid not Didge. That quote wasn't from Christopher Hitchens and I'm disappointed that you didn't take what I said in the spirit in which it was intended.

Have you got his book 'The Portable Atheist' handy?

I never claimed the quote was did I Irn?
He has said these words and hence why I choose to honour him by these words.
So you are just acting like a child Irn.
Seriously mate grow up, I am not concerned what you think to me placing his name to these words.
I suggest you learen to live with that as there is no rules to say I have to quote who originally said this am I?
Your attemots at point scoring are just typical of the left, they get their arse creamed in a debate and cannot accept they were bested in a debate.
I suggest you learen to live with that mate

by Irn Bru Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:49 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Dear me, I really must have you wound up to high heaven you detract off the thread and my signature to try childishly to score points again, because you are getting hammered on others.
That is what you call being a sore loser is Irn.
You tick all the boxes mate.
You goty battered on being educated on the Falklands war, why you weaseled off as per usual
Did Christopher Hitchens say this?
Yes
Then it is irrelevant what you think who said, it because Christopher did say this and it is him who I admire
So he did say this did he not?
It is in honour to him why I post that he did say this.
I never claimed he quoted it, I am putting this as something he said.
That okay with you mate, as I never made any claims on this quote, you poorly did because you clearly are wound up to bring up something nody did.
Ha Ha Ha Ha ha

Afraid not Didge. That quote wasn't from Christopher Hitchens and I'm disappointed that you didn't take what I said in the spirit in which it was intended.

Have you got his book 'The Portable Atheist' handy?

I never claimed the quote was did I Irn?
He has said these words and hence why I choose to homour him by these words.
So you are just acting like a child Irn.
Seriously mate grow up, I am not concerned what you think to me placing his name to these words.
I suggest you learen to live with that as there is no rules to say I have to quote who originally said this am I?

But you have attributed it to him in your signature. That is saying that the quote came from him.

Have you got his book handy anyway so that I can show you

by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:54 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

I never claimed the quote was did I Irn?
He has said these words and hence why I choose to homour him by these words.
So you are just acting like a child Irn.
Seriously mate grow up, I am not concerned what you think to me placing his name to these words.
I suggest you learen to live with that as there is no rules to say I have to quote who originally said this am I?

But you have attributed it to him in your signature. That is saying that the quote came from him.

Have you got his book handy anyway so that I can show you

Neolithic agricultural revolution may have reached Britain 2,000 years earlier than previously thought 3489511464

Really show me the law which states this is the case?
Seriously, this is now as bad as your view to someone lying or telling the truth is based on my life experinces.
Ha Ha ha
I am loving this

by Irn Bru Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:04 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

I never claimed the quote was did I Irn?
He has said these words and hence why I choose to homour him by these words.
So you are just acting like a child Irn.
Seriously mate grow up, I am not concerned what you think to me placing his name to these words.
I suggest you learen to live with that as there is no rules to say I have to quote who originally said this am I?

But you have attributed it to him in your signature. That is saying that the quote came from him.

Have you got his book handy anyway so that I can show you

Really show me the law which states this is the case?
Seriously, this is now as bad as your view to someone lying or telling the truth is based on my life experinces.
Ha Ha ha
I am loving this

Didge old bean. You are misleading people into believing that the quote came from Christopher Hitchens therefore it is possible that whoever reads it will believe that these words actually came from him. You see, that's what has happened to you and it happened because you read it on the internet from someone who did exactly what you are doing here. You owe it to people to get these things right because these things spread and you are evidence of having fallen into the same trap.

That's three times now as well - it's just laziness really.

by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:09 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Really show me the law which states this is the case?
Seriously, this is now as bad as your view to someone lying or telling the truth is based on my life experinces.
Ha Ha ha
I am loving this

Didge old bean. You are misleading people into believing that the quote came from Christopher Hitchens therefore it is possible that whoever reads it will believe that these words actually came from him. You see, that's what has happened to you and it happened because you read it on the internet from someone who did exactly what you are doing here. You owe it to people to get these things right because these things spread and you are evidence of having fallen into the same trap.

That's three times now as well - it's just laziness really.

PMSL, nopt claiming the quote came from CH, never did, I know though he has used this often in reapect to who did, but to me I place his association to this, because he made this quote famous through his works and saying this.
So now 3 times I have stated I know he did not originally say this or even have I inferred thaty he did.
You are just proven how such childish things like this is all you can attempt to get at me with because you get so badly beaten in debates.
Now the quote is going to stay as it is, I suggest you get used to that buddy and stop stamping your feet

by Irn Bru Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:19 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Really show me the law which states this is the case?
Seriously, this is now as bad as your view to someone lying or telling the truth is based on my life experinces.
Ha Ha ha
I am loving this

Didge old bean. You are misleading people into believing that the quote came from Christopher Hitchens therefore it is possible that whoever reads it will believe that these words actually came from him. You see, that's what has happened to you and it happened because you read it on the internet from someone who did exactly what you are doing here. You owe it to people to get these things right because these things spread and you are evidence of having fallen into the same trap.

That's three times now as well - it's just laziness really.

PMSL, nopt claiming the quote came from CH, never did, I know though he has used this often in reapect to who did, but to me I place his association to this, because he made this quote famous through his works and saying this.
So now 3 times I have stated I know he did not originally say this or even have I inferred thaty he did.
You are just proven how such childish things like this is all you can attempt to get at me with because you get so badly beaten in debates.
Now the quote is going to stay as it is, I suggest you get used to that buddy and stop stamping your feet

If you look in his book you will see that he didn't say these words. He actually attributed a whole section of his book to the book where it actually came from and he attributed it correctly as well. as good academics and historians do. If you have the book handy I can direct you to the correct page.

Leave if you wish - I was only trying to help you.

by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:22 pm

by Irn Bru Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:24 pm

darknessss wrote:

by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:26 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

PMSL, nopt claiming the quote came from CH, never did, I know though he has used this often in reapect to who did, but to me I place his association to this, because he made this quote famous through his works and saying this.
So now 3 times I have stated I know he did not originally say this or even have I inferred thaty he did.
You are just proven how such childish things like this is all you can attempt to get at me with because you get so badly beaten in debates.
Now the quote is going to stay as it is, I suggest you get used to that buddy and stop stamping your feet

If you look in his book you will see that he didn't say these words. He actually attributed a whole section of his book to the book where it actually came from and he attributed it correctly as well. as good academics and historians do. If you have the book handy I can direct you to the correct page.

Leave if you wish - I was only trying to help you.

I know who originally said it Irn, hence why even more I am going to leave it as it is because it bothers you so much ha ha ha ha

Again never seen someone so desperate to win inane points.

Razz

by Irn Bru Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:30 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

PMSL, nopt claiming the quote came from CH, never did, I know though he has used this often in reapect to who did, but to me I place his association to this, because he made this quote famous through his works and saying this.
So now 3 times I have stated I know he did not originally say this or even have I inferred thaty he did.
You are just proven how such childish things like this is all you can attempt to get at me with because you get so badly beaten in debates.
Now the quote is going to stay as it is, I suggest you get used to that buddy and stop stamping your feet

If you look in his book you will see that he didn't say these words. He actually attributed a whole section of his book to the book where it actually came from and he attributed it correctly as well. as good academics and historians do. If you have the book handy I can direct you to the correct page.

Leave if you wish - I was only trying to help you.

I know who originally said it Irn, hence why even more I am going to leave it as it is because it bothers you so much ha ha ha ha

Again never seen someone so desperate to win inane points.

I was just trying to help you to stop passing on incorrect information circulating on the internet like what happened to you because academics and good historians would never do that.

Talk about being ungrateful Evil or Very Mad

by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:32 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

I know who originally said it Irn, hence why even more I am going to leave it as it is because it bothers you so much ha ha ha ha

Again never seen someone so desperate to win inane points.

I was just trying to help you to stop passing on incorrect information circulating on the internet like what happened to you because academics and good historians would never do that.

Talk about being ungrateful

Its not incorrect though Irn, as it not only in his book but also stated by him also?
Mate grow some backbone.
If you are bored have a wank.

by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:35 pm

Anyway I have things to do, so make sure you answer my questions Irn, they will not ggo away buddy, no matter how badly you attempt to get out of doing so.
The signature will stay as it is, sorry if that bothers you but now you have made ity clear that it does, it will stay for a very long time.

Night Irn

Laughing

by Irn Bru Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:42 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

I know who originally said it Irn, hence why even more I am going to leave it as it is because it bothers you so much ha ha ha ha

Again never seen someone so desperate to win inane points.

I was just trying to help you to stop passing on incorrect information circulating on the internet like what happened to you because academics and good historians would never do that.

Talk about being ungrateful

Its not incorrect though Irn, as it not only in his book but also stated by him also?
Mate grow some backbone.
If you are bored have a wank.

I know it is not only in his book. It's on the internet as well incorrectly attributed to him and that's where you picked up the information that made you think the quote came from him. You're just making the same mistake as all the others before you.

I'm past bothering with you now on this because that's three times now that you've screwed up on your signatures so I'm not going to help you again.

You'll learn I suppose.

by Irn Bru Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:45 pm

Brasidas wrote:Anyway I have things to do, so make sure you answer my questions Irn, they will not ggo away buddy, no matter how badly you attempt to get out of doing so.
The signature will stay as it is, sorry if that bothers you but now you have made ity clear that it does, it will stay for a very long time.

Night Irn

You spreading incorrect information doesn't bother me Didge. I'm used to you doing it Laughing

Night night Didge.

by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:45 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Its not incorrect though Irn, as it not only in his book but also stated by him also?
Mate grow some backbone.
If you are bored have a wank.

I know it is not only in his book. It's on the internet as well incorrectly attributed to him and that's where you picked up the information that made you think the quote came from him. You're just making the same mistake as all the others before you.

I'm past bothering with you now on this because that's three times now that you've screwed up on your signatures so I'm not going to help you again.

You'll learn I suppose.

3 times? Lovce to know the third, even none are screw ups
So you are past throwing out your dummies and I really do not need the help of an insecure child like you Irn who fails so badly at debates, that you are desperate to find anything to best me with.
That really shows up your failings mate

Night Tommy

Laughing

by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:47 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:Anyway I have things to do, so make sure you answer my questions Irn, they will not ggo away buddy, no matter how badly you attempt to get out of doing so.
The signature will stay as it is, sorry if that bothers you but now you have made ity clear that it does, it will stay for a very long time.

Night Irn

You spreading incorrect information doesn't bother me Didge. I'm used to you doing it

Night night Didge.

You see another poster who fails to understand his own brain is lying to him.

Ha ha ha ha

Razz

Night Tommy

by Irn Bru Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:04 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:Anyway I have things to do, so make sure you answer my questions Irn, they will not ggo away buddy, no matter how badly you attempt to get out of doing so.
The signature will stay as it is, sorry if that bothers you but now you have made ity clear that it does, it will stay for a very long time.

Night Irn

You spreading incorrect information doesn't bother me Didge. I'm used to you doing it

Night night Didge.

You see another poster who fails to understand his own brain is lying to him.

Ha ha ha ha

Night Tommy

Oh you popped back.

How many night nights will I get tonight

Things to do? Laughing

by Cass Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:15 am

isn't it Ayaan Hirsi Ali from How (and Why) I Became an Infidel?

by stardesk Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:44 am

Er, 'scuse me for butting in on the personal banter but I thought this topic was about ancient Britain.

My DNA shows, through the matriline, that our (my) ancestors, hunter gatherers at the time, reached Britain 12,000 years ago, when England was still joined to Europe, before the melting of the ice-age. We know that farming began in the Middle East about 10,000 yrs ago, so it's quite likely it reached Britain while it was still possible for people (and new ideas) to reach here.

by Guest Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:51 am

stardesk wrote:Er, 'scuse me for butting in on the personal banter but I thought this topic was about ancient Britain.

My DNA shows, through the matriline, that our (my) ancestors, hunter gatherers at the time, reached Britain 12,000 years ago, when England was still joined to Europe, before the melting of the ice-age. We know that farming began about 10,000 yrs ago, so it's quite likely it reached Britain while it was still possible for people (and new ideas) to reach here.

Hi Stardesk

It is about ancient, but for some posters it is about desperately trying to score any point on a debate where for the majority lose they seek to find anything to attack the poster with. It is an excellent example of immaturity by those who do not like to lose a debate. That is the level of desperation some posters go to.

That is fascinating about your ancestry Stardesk
Here is more on the subject

Prehistoric people living on the British Isles were more than hunter-gatherers: they were bakers, too, a discovery suggests. They seem to have been eating wheat for millennia before it was cultivated in the region.
A find of plant DNA challenges the assumption that the grain didn't arrive until agriculture took hold there around 4000 BC. People were in fact enjoying flour imported from mainland Europe some 2000 years before this.
"Rather than being cut off as the commonly held view states, these hunter-gatherers had trade links to distant agricultural communities," says Robin Allaby from the University of Warwick, UK.
Allaby and his team's claim is based on a discovery at an undersea site around 12 kilometres from the Isle of Wight, off the coast of southern England. In the Mesolithic Age – some 10,000 to 5000 years ago, before farming emerged – the area was above the waves and was the site of a shipyard. Using pioneering techniques to analyse the sediment dug from beneath the sea floor, they found plentiful wheat DNA from this era – 2000 years earlier than any other signs of wheat previously found in the UK.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27044-britons-may-have-imported-wheat-long-before-farming-it.html

by stardesk Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:19 pm

Hi Brasidas, I hope you're well. Thanks for the information, I'm sure there would have been contact, ideas and new techniques, reaching our shores many times long before we know about. It certainly is a fascinating subject.

As for the banter, you're right of course, some people like to bring into a topic discussion more personal issues. Let them get on with it if that's all they can talk about.

by Guest Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:35 pm

stardesk wrote:Hi Brasidas, I hope you're well. Thanks for the information, I'm sure there would have been contact, ideas and new techniques, reaching our shores many times long before we know about. It certainly is a fascinating subject.

As for the banter, you're right of course, some people like to bring into a topic discussion more personal issues. Let them get on with it if that's all they can talk about.

I am very well Stardesk and I hope you are too?
To me there is still so much we do not understand about our past or how sophisticated they were. I mean when you look at the timeline of human history humans were making leaps and bounds very quickly.
It is in itself so interesting to understand how humans developed so quickly to the point we are at today. In term of the lifespan of the earth, human history is a mere blink in the eye.

by stardesk Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:57 pm

I'm logging off now but will catch up later. Bye for now.

by stardesk Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:37 pm

Hi Brasidas. The human mind seems to have improved tremendously over the last couple of thousand years.
We are now capable of grasping, understanding, and using just about anything invented. We only have to consider all our gadgets to realise that. Just about everyone has a mobile phone, computers and other interactive means. I wonder, how far can we go before there is a stalemate, just small improvements to what we already have. What then our minds?

by Guest Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:42 pm

stardesk wrote:Hi Brasidas. The human mind seems to have improved tremendously over the last couple of thousand years.
We are now capable of grasping, understanding, and using just about anything invented. We only have to consider all our gadgets to realise that. Just about everyone has a mobile phone, computers and other interactive means. I wonder, how far can we go before there is a stalemate, just small improvements to what we already have. What then our minds?

would disagree with you there Star...
a very few are capable of understanding stuff we have invented

90% of the populace are still merely monkeys pushing buttons

strewth MOST folks can barely get beyond using the TV remote control...they need a "technician" to set up their sky box....

and dont forget the famous "female" default computer action....CTRL-ALT-DEL

by Guest Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:10 pm

darknessss wrote:
stardesk wrote:Hi Brasidas. The human mind seems to have improved tremendously over the last couple of thousand years.
We are now capable of grasping, understanding, and using just about anything invented. We only have to consider all our gadgets to realise that. Just about everyone has a mobile phone, computers and other interactive means. I wonder, how far can we go before there is a stalemate, just small improvements to what we already have. What then our minds?

would disagree with you there Star...
a very few are capable of understanding stuff we have invented

90% of the populace are still merely monkeys pushing buttons

strewth MOST folks can barely get beyond using the TV remote control...they need a "technician" to set up their sky box....

and dont forget the famous "female" default computer action....CTRL-ALT-DEL

I would disagree with that, as that is based on a view they would not understand when the majority of rhem would understand.
Your view of humans is based upon your own view you are superior in knowledge, which is sheer arrogance beyond belief when there are many things you do not understand but have the ability to learn them.

by Guest Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:12 pm

Brasidas wrote:
darknessss wrote:

would disagree with you there Star...
a very few are capable of understanding stuff we have invented

90% of the populace are still merely monkeys pushing buttons

strewth MOST folks can barely get beyond using the TV remote control...they need a "technician" to set up their sky box....

and dont forget the famous "female" default computer action....CTRL-ALT-DEL

I would disagree with that, as that is based on a view they would not understand when the majority of rhem would understand.
Your view of humans is based upon your own view you are superior in knowledge, which is sheer arrogance beyond belief when there are many things you do not understand but have the ability to learn them.

bull shit.....

less than 5% of the population understand the basics of HOW computers work

less still can actually PROGRAM even a simple computer such as an arduino or even a basic using computer...

(and I dont mean using a "package like word or excel" THATS NOT programming")

I bet there are less than 25% who are capable of FULLY servicing their vehicle

i bet there are less than 5% capable of replacing the bearing in their washing machine

see schools no longer teach simple mechanical skills the "drive to do it isnt there...having been beaten out of the populace by the consumer market

god almighty there are few who can even put a new handle on their garden spade...they throw it away and buy a new one Rolling Eyes

even worse....

there are few now, who can take a potential meal (rabbit in skin) and turn it into a rabbit pie.....

(in reality there are probably even fewer that could make the pastry to put on top!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

there are few who can even repair their clothes even a simple button job is beyon the Jerwmy Kyle generation......
let alone actually MAKE their own clothes fron scratch.... and of those fewer still understand HOW that material is made...OR its properties

see thers another problem ...folks USE materials of all kinds....with NO understanding of its properties...merely following a "recipie" or "plan" so if ever they are called on to do some original thought they are buggered....
or worse use an inappropriate material in the wrong manner.....and thus cause problems

which of course idiot govt then uses as an excuse to tie up the market even more to the delight of their money making pals....
they make things "professional use only" or must be done by "qualified persons"
and then folks who DO know...end up having to pay through the nose for some oik to do a job we are "perfectlycapableofthankyou"
general knowledge, when I was growing up, consisted of things like how to do things and use things to get a result

nowadays it consists of how many affairs some tart of an actress has had....or knowing in detail how many kids JS molested...or who is shagging who in parliament...or and this is the saddest...the latest goings on on "the street" Rolling Eyes

nah didge....most are monkeys pushing buttons....
with no curiosity ans ...whats worse...no desire for curiosity either

Agreed didge there are things I dont know....

but in the main these are things that dont intrude upon my day to day life...and if they did you can be assured I would soon master them.....

2 years ago I had no idea about CNC machining or ...at best merely a vague idea....

today I can play tunes on mine....literally (and quite funny it is too.....must make a vid)

I mastered the programming language.

again i wanted a specialised alarm for the land rover...they dont make one that will do EXACTLY what I want...so I went and got an arduino processor and a few other bits...

I ahve never programmed in C++ (never had the need....) I have the prototype working on my desk as I speak.....

I have that "curiosity" I am NOT satisfied with being a monkey button pressing.......

and if you think I have some sort of "superior knowledge" then that makes me a god???

I have NO "superior knowlege...every think I know and every skill I have is out there ...easy to learn and aquire...

OK

i can work wood and fix the machinery
I am a skilled electronics technician
I can carry out almost every function within a farming environment
I am an experienced animal handler and trainer (including exotics)
I am able to cook...from the wild if I have the "prey"
I am a qualified mountain leader (walking)
I am a skilled morse operator ( a skill I learned at age 50)
I can do brick work
concrete work
I can paint and wall paper
I can plaster

I can weld
fix my vehicles

I can sew by hand AND machine
I can machine knit

I can fix the knitting machine and sewing machine

I can use (and i mean really use) computers....even for things they were not designed to do.....

I can lay carpets

I can also find anything about absolutely anything else that I dont actually carry the knowlege for, either from t'internet OR from books (in other words I know how to research)

NOW.....

are you telling me that for some reason I am especially gifted...if so thanks...but I will deny it.....

Granted last time i did an IQ test I got 165 (or was it 156) ...something like that

with an "personality description of "insightful linguist" (whatever THAT is)

BUT

I dont see that acquiring a sack load of skills and background knowledge is a function of IQ once you get above the magic 100 (which of course by definition is the "average")

Its the lack of will to learn today thats the biggest problem....(and especially the will to learn anything OUTSIDE of the narrow skill set you follow as a career)

Its too easy...it breaks...chuck it away and buy a new one...
food...oh that comes from either the supermarket or...for the really idle the fast food palace.... Rolling Eyes

by Guest Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:17 pm

What a load of babble
So lets answer the first really idiotic point.
So only 5% understand computers even though there is no need to many of them to know and that you think they cannot be taught to understand them?
Are you claiming it is impossible to teach them this?
What you are claiming is idiotic beyond belief that because a set amount of people do not know or understand something that they are inacapble of doing so.
Sorry Victor that is sheer and utter bullshit.
You yourself had to be taught as everyone else did how to do these things, which means it is not a natural gift but something learnt.
However somethings take skill.

Can you play the Violin beautifully?

Can you write a concerto?

There are many things you cannot do and even if taught you still could not do them

Does that make you as you claim of others?

No

by Guest Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:46 pm

Brasidas wrote:What a load of babble
So lets answer the first really idiotic point.
So only 5% understand computers even though there is no need to many of them to know and that you think they cannot be taught to understand them?
Are you claiming it is impossible to teach them this?
What you are claiming is idiotic beyond belief that because a set amount of people do not know or understand something that they are inacapble of doing so.
Sorry Victor that is sheer and utter bullshit.
You yourself had to be taught as everyone else did how to do these things, which means it is not a natural gift but something learnt.
However somethings take skill.

Can you play the Violin beautifully?

Can you write a concerto?

There are many things you cannot do and even if taught you still could not do them

Does that make you as you claim of others?

no because those things are not the basics of life

computers are (nowadays)

as I said...I doubt the problem is lack of intelligence....

its lack of curiosity and lack of the will to exert themselves to learn

they would...literally rather sit there and watch a bunch of overpaid idiots live out pretend (and severely dysfunctional if the truth be known) lives on the bloody gogglebox
than learn just HOW that all important tool they use works

Hell I may not be able to play the bloody violin...in fact the damn things hate me....BUT I sure as hell know EXACTLY how it works... how every bit of it contributes to the sound
and...if asked...I could tune one to pitch perfect (which actually isnt of necessity what would be desired....but thats another story) strewth...I could...possibly...with the aquisition of yet more tools and a bit of study...MAKE you one (I doubt it would be a STRAD ...but hey NOTHING is like a strad....)

AND i Also know exactly how that sound gets from the studio/concert hall to my earphones for my enjoyment....

as for writing a concherto....well thats true...I havt studied the "programming language" nor is THAT a "mechanical" thing either, in fact I would class it as something OTHER than a mere "skill" or "talent" ..........doing that requires something from the soul...... can you ever "learn" such a thing?? or is it something else
there are , are there not some things that go beyond mere skill or training
the great poets
the master playwrights
great artists....
and sculptors

No

by Guest Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:53 pm

Dear me, so now learning about computer programming is fundemental to life?

I think not, nor is it needed, your view is subjective to say the least and still ignores the fundemental fact many people can be taught this.

Computers are not the basics of life.

Learning to read and write are.

You know how a violin works yet you would not be able to produce a beautiful sound from this showing it takes far more than understanding the workings of an instrument.
This is something that requires a natural gift which still requires teaching to enhance your abilities.

As I say just because you have learnt things and feell that others do is nothing more than subjective Victor, espcially computers, as they are and have made humans lazy. They now do things for us at such speed, we take away further the ability to work things out for ourselves.

by Guest Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:57 pm

Brasidas wrote:Dear me, so now learning about computer programming is fundemental to life|?

I think not, nor is it needed, your view is subjective to say the least and still ignores the fundemental fact many people can be taught this.

Computers are not the basics of life.

Learning to read and write are.

You know how a violin worls yet you would not be able to produce a beautifulo sound from this showing it takes far more tha understanding the workings of an instrument.
This is something that requires a natural gift which still requires teaching to enhance your abilities.

As I say just because you have learnt things and feell that others do is nothing more than subjective Victor, espcially computers, as they are and have made humans lazy. They now do things for us at such speed, we take away further the ability to work things out for ourselves.

and there is the crux of the matter....lazy.....to the point of not even being able to carry out simple maths in their tiny minds, so stuffed with " corrie" or, Jeremy Kyle

by Guest Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:04 am

darknessss wrote:
Brasidas wrote:Dear me, so now learning about computer programming is fundemental to life|?

I think not, nor is it needed, your view is subjective to say the least and still ignores the fundemental fact many people can be taught this.

Computers are not the basics of life.

Learning to read and write are.

You know how a violin worls yet you would not be able to produce a beautifulo sound from this showing it takes far more tha understanding the workings of an instrument.
This is something that requires a natural gift which still requires teaching to enhance your abilities.

As I say just because you have learnt things and feell that others do is nothing more than subjective Victor, espcially computers, as they are and have made humans lazy. They now do things for us at such speed, we take away further the ability to work things out for ourselves.

and there is the crux of the matter....lazy.....to the point of not even being able to carry out simple maths in their tiny minds, so stuffed with " corrie" or, Jeremy Kyle

Not going top disagree with that and it boils down to the fact many people love drama in their lives more than they possess the need or want of knowledge. TV, social media, the internet are to blame for that. It is sad that today people in order to function require such drama.

If you would pull off making a Strad, you would be famous, now there is a challenge for you if ever there was one to test your excellent abilities.
You are good with your hands in creating, making designing, so if ever there was the ultimate test for your abilities, this would be one of them Victor and even better I can play this beautifully for you.

You should take up this challenge as it would certainly be one of the greatest tests to your skills and even more so if you could produce a violin that sounded better than a Strad.

Laughing

by Guest Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:13 am

you know I envy you that ability (to play the violin) al I can ever get out of them is either one single tone...for tuning

or something that sounds like a scalded cat..... lol!

by Guest Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:18 am

darknessss wrote:you know I envy you that ability (to play the violin) al I can ever get out of them is either one single tone...for tuning

or something that sounds like a scalded cat.....

That is just your thirst for knowledge Victor, we all have abilities you more so than others because you seek to learn and understand.
I bet I could teach you to play, though I get the feeling I would have to be very patient.

lol!

Anyway you have to build me one first.

Neolithic agricultural revolution may have reached Britain 2,000 years earlier than previously thought 3852033631

Neolithic agricultural revolution may have reached Britain 2,000 years earlier than previously thought 3852033631

by Guest Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:24 am

I was going to say I'll stick with te bathroom baritone for my music making

but baritone isnt quite right....

more bass.....

I can match Paul Robesons register (though not his power) Shocked

by Guest Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:25 am

That is cool Victor

Anyway am off to bed

All the best mate

by Eilzel Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:30 am

You know vic, while I appreciate the loss of many small life 'skills' by my generation, I must defend by saying you know we don't 'need' them. Perhaps its laziness but mostly its casual indifference. As life is we aren't damaged for not knowing how to do some of those things and IF we HAD to then we could quickly learn what was required.

Mainly though I object to the 'JK generation' tag and idea we all just sit and watch trashy soaps and reality TV when not working. Give us some credit, I concede some do for most of us without those skills it just doesn't interest us to learn what we don't feel we need (until we do). Different strokes I guess Smile

by Guest Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:38 am

tell you what Eil...when MY generation passes...you lot will be truely fooked.....

you will learn you say...and where (and whom) from?
and as I say YOU are part of te "consumerism" problem

me washing machine's busted...oh hell...buy another....

you wont even get the repair man out because by the time he's done you are half way to a new machine

me ...i whip the back to and sides of and dive in and change whatevers has "let the smoke out".

your do realise dont you ...its dead easy

everything electrical actually works on smoke....

I can prove this

when the smoke comes out...it stops working....

simples.... Laughing

by Guest Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:39 am

Brasidas wrote:That is cool Victor

Anyway am off to bed

All the best mate

being an insane and irretrievable liberalist....

you might like this...listen to the words ...

by Guest Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:49 am

Eh?
I am centre right liberal Victor
Great singing mind this kid though is just as good.

Night Laughing

by Guest Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:50 am

words to my post above

Praise to Joy, the God-descended
Daughter of Elysium!
Ray of mirth and rapture blended,
Goddess, to thy shrine we come.
By thy magic is united
What stern Custom parted wide,
All mankind are brothers plighted
Where thy gentle wings abide.

Freude, schöner Götterfunken
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische, dein Heiligtum!
Deine Zauber binden wieder
Was die Mode streng geteilt;
Alle Menschen werden Brüder,
Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

Build the road of peace before us
Build it wide and deep and long;
Speed the slow and check the eager
Help the weak and curb the strong.
None shall push aside another
None shall let another fall.
March beside me, Oh my Brothers
All for one and one for all.

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