Not in our name – Muslims respond in revulsion to Charlie Hebdo massacre

by Irn Bru Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:51 pm

The Muslim Council of France, and of Britain, have denounced today’s attack on the offices of Charlie Hebdo. The imam of the mosque of Paris, Dalil Boubakeur, has said:

“This is a thunderous declaration of war. The times have changed. We’re entering a new phase of this confrontation… we are horrified by the brutality and the savagery”

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/not-in-our-name-Muslims-respond-in-revulsion-to-charlie-hebdo-shooting/

Well done these people.

cheers

by Ben Reilly Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:56 pm

Absolutely. Anyone who ignores this and insists they all stand for violence is a moron.

by Guest Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:58 pm

Irn Bru wrote:The Muslim Council of France, and of Britain, have denounced today’s attack on the offices of Charlie Hebdo. The imam of the mosque of Paris, Dalil Boubakeur, has said:

“This is a thunderous declaration of war. The times have changed. We’re entering a new phase of this confrontation… we are horrified by the brutality and the savagery”

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/not-in-our-name-Muslims-respond-in-revulsion-to-charlie-hebdo-shooting/

Well done these people.

I dont see a queue outside the central police station ...of parents and friends handing in their errant jihadi sons.....
or even a few lamp posts with returned jihadis hanging from them courtesy of their own population who are so outraged.....

sorry...am I being cynical?

we have heard it all before and the result has been...nada...zilch ...nowt...

by Ben Reilly Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:01 pm

darknessss wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:The Muslim Council of France, and of Britain, have denounced today’s attack on the offices of Charlie Hebdo. The imam of the mosque of Paris, Dalil Boubakeur, has said:

“This is a thunderous declaration of war. The times have changed. We’re entering a new phase of this confrontation… we are horrified by the brutality and the savagery”

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/not-in-our-name-Muslims-respond-in-revulsion-to-charlie-hebdo-shooting/

Well done these people.

I dont see a queue outside the central police station ...of parents and friends handing in their errant jihadi sons.....
or even a few lamp posts with returned jihadis hanging from them courtesy of their own population who are so outraged.....

sorry...am I being cynical?

we have heard it all before and the result has been...nada...zilch ...nowt...

I think your attitude stinks!

by veya_victaous Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:12 pm

darknessss wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:The Muslim Council of France, and of Britain, have denounced today’s attack on the offices of Charlie Hebdo. The imam of the mosque of Paris, Dalil Boubakeur, has said:

“This is a thunderous declaration of war. The times have changed. We’re entering a new phase of this confrontation… we are horrified by the brutality and the savagery”

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/not-in-our-name-Muslims-respond-in-revulsion-to-charlie-hebdo-shooting/

Well done these people.

I dont see a queue outside the central police station ...of parents and friends handing in their errant jihadi sons.....
or even a few lamp posts with returned jihadis hanging from them courtesy of their own population who are so outraged.....

sorry...am I being cynical?

we have heard it all before and the result has been...nada...zilch ...nowt...

Be careful what you wish for Rolling Eyes

whites would have to clean up their own community too..... all the racists and homophobs swing from lamp posts Twisted Evil

by Guest Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:39 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
darknessss wrote:

I dont see a queue outside the central police station ...of parents and friends handing in their errant jihadi sons.....
or even a few lamp posts with returned jihadis hanging from them courtesy of their own population who are so outraged.....

sorry...am I being cynical?

we have heard it all before and the result has been...nada...zilch ...nowt...

Be careful what you wish for
whites would have to clean up their own community too..... all the racists and homophobs swing from lamp posts

I have a few you can make a start with

by Guest Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:40 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
darknessss wrote:

I dont see a queue outside the central police station ...of parents and friends handing in their errant jihadi sons.....
or even a few lamp posts with returned jihadis hanging from them courtesy of their own population who are so outraged.....

sorry...am I being cynical?

we have heard it all before and the result has been...nada...zilch ...nowt...

I think your attitude stinks!

I think you have no argument to reply with, and that you are an empty vessel, making a lot of noise Laughing

by Guest Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:42 pm

darknessss wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

Be careful what you wish for
whites would have to clean up their own community too..... all the racists and homophobs swing from lamp posts

I have a few you can make a start with, however it has to be said non, as far as i know have gone to the extreme of murdering anyone for being made the but of a silly joke...well...not yet anyway

by veya_victaous Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:48 pm

darknessss wrote:
darknessss wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

Be careful what you wish for
whites would have to clean up their own community too..... all the racists and homophobs swing from lamp posts

I have a few you can make a start with, however it has to be said non, as far as i know have gone to the extreme of murdering anyone for being made the but of a silly joke...well...not yet anyway

Well it the USA a bunch of them have badges and uniforms Not in our name – Muslims respond in revulsion to Charlie Hebdo massacre 479860004

by Guest Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:56 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
darknessss wrote:

Well it the USA a bunch of them have badges and uniforms

havnt you seen the new USA cops motto. "To subjugate and oppress"

by Ben Reilly Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:05 pm

darknessss wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
darknessss wrote:

I dont see a queue outside the central police station ...of parents and friends handing in their errant jihadi sons.....
or even a few lamp posts with returned jihadis hanging from them courtesy of their own population who are so outraged.....

sorry...am I being cynical?

we have heard it all before and the result has been...nada...zilch ...nowt...

I think your attitude stinks!

I think you have no argument to reply with, and that you are an empty vessel, making a lot of noise

OK, how's this for an argument -- you shouldn't have to apologize for anything you're not responsible for.

by Guest Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:09 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
darknessss wrote:

I think you have no argument to reply with, and that you are an empty vessel, making a lot of noise

OK, how's this for an argument -- you shouldn't have to apologize for anything you're not responsible for.

reasonable

but what of "collective responsibility"

you subscribe to islam you are responsible for its failings
you subscribe to christianity ...likewise
hell you subscribe to central govt...likewise....

by veya_victaous Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:19 pm

darknessss wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
darknessss wrote:

I think you have no argument to reply with, and that you are an empty vessel, making a lot of noise

OK, how's this for an argument -- you shouldn't have to apologize for anything you're not responsible for.

reasonable

but what of "collective responsibility"

you subscribe to islam you are responsible for its failings
you subscribe to christianity ...likewise
hell you subscribe to central govt...likewise....

are you from the UK? Cool

everyone else knows where this is going Wink

by Ben Reilly Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:26 pm

darknessss wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
darknessss wrote:

I think you have no argument to reply with, and that you are an empty vessel, making a lot of noise

OK, how's this for an argument -- you shouldn't have to apologize for anything you're not responsible for.

reasonable

but what of "collective responsibility"

you subscribe to islam you are responsible for its failings
you subscribe to christianity ...likewise
hell you subscribe to central govt...likewise....

Collective responsibility comes with consent. You rooted for the war, you were part of the mob kicking that guy, you voted for the candidate promising to do this or that -- you bear some responsibility for it. Otherwise you're assigning, for example, war protesters responsibility for the war itself.

by Guest Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:32 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
darknessss wrote:

reasonable

but what of "collective responsibility"

you subscribe to islam you are responsible for its failings
you subscribe to christianity ...likewise
hell you subscribe to central govt...likewise....

are you from the UK? everyone else knows where this is going

really...thats news to me since It seems I'm the only one left in the dark as to where its going....
surely the answer to that depends upon the various ideas thrown into the pot??

by Guest Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:38 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
darknessss wrote:

reasonable

but what of "collective responsibility"

you subscribe to islam you are responsible for its failings
you subscribe to christianity ...likewise
hell you subscribe to central govt...likewise....

Collective responsibility comes with consent. You rooted for the war, you were part of the mob kicking that guy, you voted for the candidate promising to do this or that -- you bear some responsibility for it. Otherwise you're assigning, for example, war protesters responsibility for the war itself.

interesting and valid point, so all we are left to decide then is how genuine these protesters are, as i asked elsewhere how many are running with the hounds but howling with the wolves...

I know that immediately is open to accusations of racism (since it implies distrust on the basis of religion/race/whatever) however it is not. like many protestors there is likely to be large numbers of "protest predators) (look at the hypocrites that infest "animal rights" protests)

You may have guessed by now I have a sour opinion of my fellow monkeys!

by veya_victaous Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:56 pm

darknessss wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
darknessss wrote:

reasonable

but what of "collective responsibility"

you subscribe to islam you are responsible for its failings
you subscribe to christianity ...likewise
hell you subscribe to central govt...likewise....

are you from the UK? everyone else knows where this is going

really...thats news to me since It seems I'm the only one left in the dark as to where its going....
surely the answer to that depends upon the various ideas thrown into the pot??

Collective Responsibility means all Brit are responsible for the actions of the British aristocracy.
So where are the reparations for all the 'Colonies' the Wealth of the Empire is ill gotten gains stolen form others.
Or is it all of Europe is responsible for Europeans behaviours over the centuries Suspect

either way PAY UP SON.

to say all Islamic follow the same just shows you don't know much about Islam it is even more divided into sects that don't get along than Christianity.

Ultimately an individual can only be held accountable for their own actions.

And besides you know who can 'punish' them best, the Muslims community. like the Sydney Gunman they refused him Muslim burial and delayed his burial for long enough that the Koran says he is ineligible for heaven Twisted Evil

by Guest Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:03 am

veya_victaous wrote:
darknessss wrote:

really...thats news to me since It seems I'm the only one left in the dark as to where its going....
surely the answer to that depends upon the various ideas thrown into the pot??

Collective Responsibility means all Brit are responsible for the actions of the British aristocracy.
So where are the reparations for all the 'Colonies' the Wealth of the Empire is ill gotten gains stolen form others.
Or is it all of Europe is responsible for Europeans behaviours over the centuries either way PAY UP SON.

erm...wrong....(and we are paying anyhows...how many billions in pointless "foreign aid)?
we (collectively and universally) cannot be held reponsible for what happened in the past. since we have no input to the past.....however the present (and just possibly the future) we can influence.

as the book says ...visit not the sins of the father on the sons....however it says nothing about the cousins brothers and other extant relatives...

to say all Islamic follow the same just shows you don't know much about Islam it is even more divided into sects that don't get along than Christianity.

Ultimately an individual can only be held accountable for their own actions.

And besides you know who can 'punish' them best, the Muslims community. like the Sydney Gunman they refused him Muslim burial and delayed his burial for long enough that the Koran says he is ineligible for heaven

by Ben Reilly Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:11 am

darknessss wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
darknessss wrote:

really...thats news to me since It seems I'm the only one left in the dark as to where its going....
surely the answer to that depends upon the various ideas thrown into the pot??

Collective Responsibility means all Brit are responsible for the actions of the British aristocracy.
So where are the reparations for all the 'Colonies' the Wealth of the Empire is ill gotten gains stolen form others.
Or is it all of Europe is responsible for Europeans behaviours over the centuries either way PAY UP SON.

erm...wrong....(and we are paying anyhows...how many billions in pointless "foreign aid)?
we (collectively and universally) cannot be held reponsible for what happened in the past. since we have no input to the past.....however the present (and just possibly the future) we can influence.

as the book says ...visit not the sins of the father on the sons....however it says nothing about the cousins brothers and other extant relatives...

to say all Islamic follow the same just shows you don't know much about Islam it is even more divided into sects that don't get along than Christianity.

Ultimately an individual can only be held accountable for their own actions.

And besides you know who can 'punish' them best, the Muslims community. like the Sydney Gunman they refused him Muslim burial and delayed his burial for long enough that the Koran says he is ineligible for heaven

I seem to remember someone else bringing up the idea of foreign aid as reparations ... but never mind, it's not. Foreign aid is foreign aid, reparations are reparations.

If you want foreign aid to be reparations, it has to be called that -- and come with an apology.

That would be like me trying to call the portion of my tax that goes to help feed needy children "charity."

by Ben Reilly Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:15 am

Oh, and because your statement was wrong about several things, let me address another wrong thing in it -- foreign aid is hardly "pointless." http://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2012/may/30/foreign-aid-works-saves-lives

by Guest Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:17 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
darknessss wrote:

I seem to remember someone else bringing up the idea of foreign aid as reparations ... but never mind, it's not. Foreign aid is foreign aid, reparations are reparations.

If you want foreign aid to be reparations, it has to be called that -- and come with an apology.

That would be like me trying to call the portion of my tax that goes to help feed needy children "charity."

hmmm...a rose by any other name...

by Guest Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:19 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Oh, and because your statement was wrong about several things, let me address another wrong thing in it -- foreign aid is hardly "pointless." http://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2012/may/30/foreign-aid-works-saves-lives

It also arms despots and encourages HR abuses...

then we have the "pull out of (whereever) and leave em to it argument that was proposed by cass....

complex init......

by veya_victaous Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:37 am

darknessss wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
darknessss wrote:

really...thats news to me since It seems I'm the only one left in the dark as to where its going....
surely the answer to that depends upon the various ideas thrown into the pot??

Collective Responsibility means all Brit are responsible for the actions of the British aristocracy.
So where are the reparations for all the 'Colonies' the Wealth of the Empire is ill gotten gains stolen form others.
Or is it all of Europe is responsible for Europeans behaviours over the centuries either way PAY UP SON.

erm...wrong....(and we are paying anyhows...how many billions in pointless "foreign aid)?
we (collectively and universally) cannot be held reponsible for what happened in the past. since we have no input to the past.....however the present (and just possibly the future) we can influence.

as the book says ...visit not the sins of the father on the sons....however it says nothing about the cousins brothers and other extant relatives...

you have taken full advantage of the situations of the past, money makes money If you Hadn't stolen their first lots than you wouldn't have what you have now. And you not even repaid a fraction of the value taken

It occurred over generations so it is only fair to repay over generations

You're right it is silly Just like expecting All Muslims to do something about a few terrorists that happen to call themselves Muslims

to say all Islamic follow the same just shows you don't know much about Islam it is even more divided into sects that don't get along than Christianity.

Ultimately an individual can only be held accountable for their own actions.

And besides you know who can 'punish' them best, the Muslims community. like the Sydney Gunman they refused him Muslim burial and delayed his burial for long enough that the Koran says he is ineligible for heaven

by Guest Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:54 am

veya_victaous wrote:
darknessss wrote:

Oh I agree but.......

In notice that no one has any answer except "there there ..it will be alright"

bollocks it anit alright and it aint going to be alright, and the less we do about it the worse it will be....

if you aint got a problem be grateful

we have and patting it on the head dont work

so can someone tell me whats next....

clearly they have murdered satire I dont think it will be long before one or other govt here responds by banning religious satire or more isidiously refuses to guarantee the safety (as it is encumbent upon the govt to do) of cartoonists and so on??
so whats next for the chop...
disagreement
erm
humour
questioning ?

do you REALLY think by "smiling nicely to Mo next door" the problem will go away??

because if you do I think you are plainly nuts....

well....come on all you clever chaps.....

by veya_victaous Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:24 am

darknessss wrote:

Oh I agree but.......

In notice that no one has any answer except "there there ..it will be alright"

bollocks it anit alright and it aint going to be alright, and the less we do about it the worse it will be....

if you aint got a problem be grateful

we have and patting it on the head dont work

so can someone tell me whats next....

clearly they have murdered satire I dont think it will be long before one or other govt here responds by banning religious satire or more isidiously refuses to guarantee the safety (as it is encumbent upon the govt to do) of cartoonists and so on??
so whats next for the chop...
disagreement
erm
humour
questioning ?

do you REALLY think by "smiling nicely to Mo next door" the problem will go away??

because if you do I think you are plainly nuts....

well....come on all you clever chaps.....

yeah but the issue is both the European Attitude and the Muslim attitude
Rolling Eyes

It is like watching kids argue, You're both Jackasses and none of your cultures are that great that they should be forced on anyone.

there there it will be all right, is the right answer
it takes time to convert them to secularism and everyone knows Europe sucks at working together, compromise and accepting others. (see 'history of Europe' and how god damn long it is taking you guys to form the EU already Rolling Eyes

or 'Polish Migrants' Cool

that's basically the same as UK people and still all the whinging, the French and Germans are no better geek

)

by Guest Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:39 am

well now veya...the EU thing is a bit of a pickle innit...

you see the problem is it started as a mere trading agreement...which is fine and dandy, in fact THAT is great

where it falls apart is its present structure, and the penchant of its fat cats of introducing stoopid rules and laws where a) they are NOT needed and b) to the sneaky detriment of one nation of another...

also the so called parliament is too cumbersome and totally unaccountable to the people it presumes to govern...

appaling as it is the american system of govt would be better than what the EU is....

then you have nations like france that propose and get implemented daft and unsustaianable rules ...then is allowed to get away with ignoring them...

an EU as a federal body is neither desirable nor desired.

by veya_victaous Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:14 am

darknessss wrote:well now veya...the EU thing is a bit of a pickle innit...

you see the problem is it started as a mere trading agreement...which is fine and dandy, in fact THAT is great

where it falls apart is its present structure, and the penchant of its fat cats of introducing stoopid rules and laws where a) they are NOT needed and b) to the sneaky detriment of one nation of another...

also the so called parliament is too cumbersome and totally unaccountable to the people it presumes to govern...

appaling as it is the american system of govt would be better than what the EU is....

then you have nations like france that propose and get implemented daft and unsustaianable rules ...then is allowed to get away with ignoring them...

an EU as a federal body is neither desirable nor desired.

well of course it is all those things ... it is being ran by Europeans Razz

by Guest Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:53 am

darknessss wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Collective responsibility comes with consent. You rooted for the war, you were part of the mob kicking that guy, you voted for the candidate promising to do this or that -- you bear some responsibility for it. Otherwise you're assigning, for example, war protesters responsibility for the war itself.

interesting and valid point, so all we are left to decide then is how genuine these protesters are, as i asked elsewhere how many are running with the hounds but howling with the wolves...

I know that immediately is open to accusations of racism (since it implies distrust on the basis of religion/race/whatever) however it is not. like many protestors there is likely to be large numbers of "protest predators) (look at the hypocrites that infest "animal rights" protests)

You may have guessed by now I have a sour opinion of my fellow monkeys!

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/evolution/humans-descended-from-apes.htm

Second, what you are doing is using guilt by association, which is a flawed concept as where do we draw the line on such reasoning you make? Thus all males are collectively responsible for an act by a male. Absurd.
If you are going to associate people based on a connection they have to agree it is acceptable to murder for insulting their deity as happened yesterday. So if you have people openly come out here and denounce this, then you have no case to collectively blame with guilt. Even though the fact they have to come out and denounce something as wrong, they should never have to. It is because there are people out there like yourself who does wrongly cast them with guilt by association. So they have to come out each time you and justify they are not the same, because you castigate them as the same. That is wrong on every level. Collective responsibility is where the wrong is collectively agreed, by those who back the the killers to murder.

To say you do not know how genuine these protestors are is an absurd reason, because now you are basing a view of distrust, none of which you have sound reason to but based off a dislike of the religion, thus your reason is biased and not rational.It is also not racist, it would be xenophobic, which you would be anyway because of your dislike of this religion. Racism is believing a race is inferior or superior, yet races are man made conception, being as biologically races do not exist in humans, we are all one race .

by Guest Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:03 am

darknessss wrote:well now veya...the EU thing is a bit of a pickle innit...
you see the problem is it started as a mere trading agreement...which is fine and dandy, in fact THAT is great
where it falls apart is its present structure, and the penchant of its fat cats of introducing stoopid rules and laws where a) they are NOT needed and b) to the sneaky detriment of one nation of another...
also the so called parliament is too cumbersome and totally unaccountable to the people it presumes to govern...
appaling as it is the american system of govt would be better than what the EU is....
then you have nations like france that propose and get implemented daft and unsustaianable rules ...then is allowed to get away with ignoring them...
an EU as a federal body is neither desirable nor desired.

What does it matter who makes the laws, as long as the laws are the right ones that ensure the well being and equality of all people, that where people affect the well being and equality of others, like with crimes, they lose rights to this by punishments like imprisonment.

by Eilzel Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:45 am

darknessss wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:The Muslim Council of France, and of Britain, have denounced today’s attack on the offices of Charlie Hebdo. The imam of the mosque of Paris, Dalil Boubakeur, has said:

“This is a thunderous declaration of war. The times have changed. We’re entering a new phase of this confrontation… we are horrified by the brutality and the savagery”

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/not-in-our-name-Muslims-respond-in-revulsion-to-charlie-hebdo-shooting/

Well done these people.

I dont see a queue outside the central police station ...of parents and friends handing in their errant jihadi sons.....
or even a few lamp posts with returned jihadis hanging from them courtesy of their own population who are so outraged.....

sorry...am I being cynical?

we have heard it all before and the result has been...nada...zilch ...nowt...

So you want the civil Muslim population to respond to brutality and savagery by extremists with, brutality and savagery?

I imagine even the most decent Muslim parents would try to find their own solutions to wayward sons before condemning them to prison, that's just parental instinct.

by Eilzel Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:50 am

veya_victaous wrote:
darknessss wrote:

Oh I agree but.......

In notice that no one has any answer except "there there ..it will be alright"

bollocks it anit alright and it aint going to be alright, and the less we do about it the worse it will be....

if you aint got a problem be grateful

we have and patting it on the head dont work

so can someone tell me whats next....

clearly they have murdered satire I dont think it will be long before one or other govt here responds by banning religious satire or more isidiously refuses to guarantee the safety (as it is encumbent upon the govt to do) of cartoonists and so on??
so whats next for the chop...
disagreement
erm
humour
questioning ?

do you REALLY think by "smiling nicely to Mo next door" the problem will go away??

because if you do I think you are plainly nuts....

well....come on all you clever chaps.....

yeah but the issue is both the European Attitude and the Muslim attitude

It is like watching kids argue, You're both Jackasses and none of your cultures are that great that they should be forced on anyone.

there there it will be all right, is the right answer
it takes time to convert them to secularism and everyone knows Europe sucks at working together, compromise and accepting others. (see 'history of Europe' and how god damn long it is taking you guys to form the EU already or 'Polish Migrants' that's basically the same as UK people and still all the whinging, the French and Germans are no better )

You know, you sometimes come across as a rather dramatic xenophobe veya Wink

Seriously though, you talk about a European attitude as though people have same outlook be they British, German, Romanian or Greek.. you can't really even talk of a 'Muslim attitude'.

As to our cultures being forced on anyone. Well like it or not most Australians have their roots in Europe, not even that long ago, so group yourselves in with those negative attitudes you are talking about Smile

by eddie Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:18 pm

I think there needs to be a massive public announcment on TV and media outlets by the Muslim council and all the top bods within the Muslim community.
Go in TV in a public broadcast and shout the message loudly otherwise it's all a bit of a wet blanket tbh.

by Raggamuffin Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:31 pm

eddie wrote:I think there needs to be a massive public announcment on TV and media outlets by the Muslim council and all the top bods within the Muslim community.
Go in TV in a public broadcast and shout the message loudly otherwise it's all a bit of a wet blanket tbh.

They can't speak for all Muslims in this country though. Our Government has a habit of speaking for all citizens of this country, and it annoys me.

I'm not suggesting that Muslims are in favour of what happened of course. I just think it's difficult for them to say what they think as a group because they're individuals like everyone else.

by Original Quill Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:55 pm

eddie wrote:I think there needs to be a massive public announcment on TV and media outlets by the Muslim council and all the top bods within the Muslim community.
Go in TV in a public broadcast and shout the message loudly otherwise it's all a bit of a wet blanket tbh.

And after that, a worldwide TV broadcast by US Southerners, denouncing the KKK, George Zimmerman, Ofc. Darren Wilson and Ofc. Daniel Pantaleo, and dedicating themselves to racial harmony throughout time. Oh yes, and a check from the Policeman's Benevolent Association to combat smoking and cure cancer. Rolling Eyes

I'll wait over here...

by Ben Reilly Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:49 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:I think there needs to be a massive public announcment on TV and media outlets by the Muslim council and all the top bods within the Muslim community.
Go in TV in a public broadcast and shout the message loudly otherwise it's all a bit of a wet blanket tbh.

They can't speak for all Muslims in this country though. Our Government has a habit of speaking for all citizens of this country, and it annoys me.

I'm not suggesting that Muslims are in favour of what happened of course. I just think it's difficult for them to say what they think as a group because they're individuals like everyone else.

Absolutely, I'm tired of people (mostly white Westerners) who act like minorities or members of different religions are homogeneous; it's just stupid Smile

by Raggamuffin Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:22 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

They can't speak for all Muslims in this country though. Our Government has a habit of speaking for all citizens of this country, and it annoys me.

I'm not suggesting that Muslims are in favour of what happened of course. I just think it's difficult for them to say what they think as a group because they're individuals like everyone else.

Absolutely, I'm tired of people (mostly white Westerners) who act like minorities or members of different religions are homogeneous; it's just stupid

I think it's the use of the word "community" which has caused it - you know, "the Muslim community" thing. It gives the impression that they all live in the same place and all know each other. Laughing

by Guest Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:46 pm

Muslims in Turkey marching in support for Charlie Hebdo

by eddie Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:25 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:I think there needs to be a massive public announcment on TV and media outlets by the Muslim council and all the top bods within the Muslim community.
Go in TV in a public broadcast and shout the message loudly otherwise it's all a bit of a wet blanket tbh.

They can't speak for all Muslims in this country though. Our Government has a habit of speaking for all citizens of this country, and it annoys me.

I'm not suggesting that Muslims are in favour of what happened of course. I just think it's difficult for them to say what they think as a group because they're individuals like everyone else.

Yeah, point taken I guess.
Just feel as though somethjng needs doing that is a marker to show that Muslims aren't about this type of shit?

by veya_victaous Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:45 pm

Eilzel wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
darknessss wrote:

Oh I agree but.......

In notice that no one has any answer except "there there ..it will be alright"

bollocks it anit alright and it aint going to be alright, and the less we do about it the worse it will be....

if you aint got a problem be grateful

we have and patting it on the head dont work

so can someone tell me whats next....

clearly they have murdered satire I dont think it will be long before one or other govt here responds by banning religious satire or more isidiously refuses to guarantee the safety (as it is encumbent upon the govt to do) of cartoonists and so on??
so whats next for the chop...
disagreement
erm
humour
questioning ?

do you REALLY think by "smiling nicely to Mo next door" the problem will go away??

because if you do I think you are plainly nuts....

well....come on all you clever chaps.....

yeah but the issue is both the European Attitude and the Muslim attitude

It is like watching kids argue, You're both Jackasses and none of your cultures are that great that they should be forced on anyone.

there there it will be all right, is the right answer
it takes time to convert them to secularism and everyone knows Europe sucks at working together, compromise and accepting others. (see 'history of Europe' and how god damn long it is taking you guys to form the EU already or 'Polish Migrants' that's basically the same as UK people and still all the whinging, the French and Germans are no better )

You know, you sometimes come across as a rather dramatic xenophobe veya

Seriously though, you talk about a European attitude as though people have same outlook be they British, German, Romanian or Greek.. you can't really even talk of a 'Muslim attitude'.

As to our cultures being forced on anyone. Well like it or not most Australians have their roots in Europe, not even that long ago, so group yourselves in with those negative attitudes you are talking about

I'm being overly dramatic on purpose Wink

I really don't care that much.

As to European attitude well it is true there is a definite race issue in Europe in part caused by Europeans not accepting globalisation. As someone looking from the outside (who also has relatives in France so hears there rubbish too) you pretty much do have the same attitude and what makes it funny is you are all doing the same things and saying the same things about each other. the EU is the perfect example 2 decades of toddlers playing tit-for-tat.

that's not what I meant by forced on people, there are Plenty of Europeans that say 'when they come here they should act like us' and they don't mean just generally follow they laws they mean 'Don't do anything different than we do'. that also harks back to the All of Europe has the same attitude, one of static culture where 'tradition' wins over 'progress'. Almost no nations in Asia, Australia or the USA are like that so it stands out as a stark contrast in the attitudes of the populace.
Maybe it is just too cold up there cause If I am to believe the Europeans I speak to, Muslims are trying to force you all to Wear Burquas and Follow Sharia Law, which is distinctly different than the attitude of Muslims here. Suspect

by veya_victaous Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:07 pm

eddie wrote:I think there needs to be a massive public announcment on TV and media outlets by the Muslim council and all the top bods within the Muslim community.
Go in TV in a public broadcast and shout the message loudly otherwise it's all a bit of a wet blanket tbh.

Paul Salahuddin Armstrong, co-director of the Association of British Muslims (AoBM)

At AoBM, we have maintained our differences with the editorial policies of Charlie Hebdo. We always have had questions about the judgment (but not the right) of publishing images which are predictably deeply offensive to many and have the potential to be inflammatory. However, at the same time we stand in support of freedom of expression and believe that there is no justification whatsoever to take lives of people who we disagree with while exercising this right.

We note that the Qur’an instructs its believers to argue with the challengers in ways that are best and most gracious. The attacks in Paris symbolise nothing close to these Koranic instructions but instead represent a distortion of faith which is forgiving and open to debate.

Dr Shuja Shafi, secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain

Nothing justifies the taking of life. Those who have killed in the name of our religion today claim to be avenging the insults made against Prophet Muhammad, upon whom be peace. But nothing is more immoral, offensive, and insulting against our beloved Prophet than such a callous act of murder. Our thoughts, prayers and solidarity go to the families of the victims and the people of France.

Naturally, and unfortunately, discussion will now fall on the right to intentionally publish hurtful material that denigrates religious figures and traditions. But however offended we may be, the ultimate denigration of our faith comes from these murderers who have unjustifiably taken life.

In the coming weeks Muslims will face the test of having to justify themselves and their place in Western society. As Muslims we are ever mindful of our Lord’s injunction to convey our true faith with wisdom and beautiful words. Indeed in the noble Qur’an we are told: ‘The true servants of the Merciful are those who walk humbly on the earth and when the ignorant address them they say: Peace.’

by Guest Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:29 pm

dont know much about the AoBM it must be said so i cant comment

the only thing you perhaps should be aware of is that the Muslim council of britain, not so long back, was all in favour of "sharia zones"

by eddie Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:04 pm

The statement by the MCoB axtually said something.
The other one was waffle.

by Guest Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:06 pm

eddie wrote:The statement by the MCoB axtually said something.
The other one was waffle.

agreed.

by Eilzel Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:25 am

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

They can't speak for all Muslims in this country though. Our Government has a habit of speaking for all citizens of this country, and it annoys me.

I'm not suggesting that Muslims are in favour of what happened of course. I just think it's difficult for them to say what they think as a group because they're individuals like everyone else.

Yeah, point taken I guess.
Just feel as though somethjng needs doing that is a marker to show that Muslims aren't about this type of shit?

They're (self-appointed) spokespeople are speaking against the attacks and showing support for the victims. As rising sun just said, there have even been marches in support of Hebdo in Turkey, a major Muslim nation.

It really isn't their fault the media prefers not to focus too much attention on this.

by Guest Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:05 am

The important thing must be to establish the rules, so we can all get along. To start with, are you allowed to be critical of Muhammad at all? For example, can you suggest that while he was generally perfect, he could sometimes be quite forgetful, and wander into Mecca saying "what did I come out here for"?

If you say "he was the best prophet going, but I have to be honest and say he was shit at table tennis", does that warrant an execution or just a wallop with some pebbles?

And are all images banned, as there seems to be some confusion over this? Maybe there’s a moderate wing of Islamic State, that says it’s alright as long as he’s drawn from the left as that shows off his best side.

Can you draw him if his face isn’t revealed, like the band Slipknot, or The Stig? There should be an agreed and written code, as the stakes for getting it wrong seem to be fairly high.

I suppose the one comfort we can take from this week’s events, is that some of us are lucky enough to live in a society based on Western values, because in countries like America you can’t imagine a lunatic ever going berserk with a gun in a public place.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/charlie-hebdo-how-exactly-would-we-like-Muslims-to-condemn-these-attacks-9966176.html

by Lone Wolf Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:00 pm

eddie wrote:
The statement by the MCoB axtually said something.
The other one was waffle.

Bullshit...

by Lone Wolf Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:06 pm

Brasidas wrote:
The important thing must be to establish the rules, so we can all get along. To start with, are you allowed to be critical.............

And are all images banned, as there seems to be some confusion over this? ......

I suppose the one comfort we can take from this week’s events, is that some of us are lucky enough to live in a society based on Western values, because in countries like America you can’t imagine a lunatic ever going berserk with a gun in a public place.

..............

by Original Quill Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:10 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:
Brasidas wrote:
The important thing must be to establish the rules, so we can all get along. To start with, are you allowed to be critical.............

And are all images banned, as there seems to be some confusion over this? ......

I suppose the one comfort we can take from this week’s events, is that some of us are lucky enough to live in a society based on Western values, because in countries like America you can’t imagine a lunatic ever going berserk with a gun in a public place.

..............

Haha...yes! Over here, people are scratching their heads scratch

and wondering what all the fuss is about.

by Guest Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:24 pm

Thats probably because there is in point of fact little difference between the 3rd world shithole these types come from and the thirdworld shithole YOU exist in except YOURS is a RICH 3rd world shithole.....

by Original Quill Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:44 am

darknessss wrote:Thats probably because there is in point of fact little difference between the 3rd world shithole these types come from and the thirdworld shithole YOU exist in except YOURS is a RICH 3rd world shithole.....

Yes, RICH is the big difference. Especially since the shithole pronouncement is just an unpleasant wind outta your asshole.

Still, this episode in France has left a lot over here wondering...much ado, and all that. The comparison to 9/11 is inappropriate. Some 2,996 deaths to 19 deaths, hardly comparable. Of course, they are all tragedies, but it's a bit insulting that comparison.

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