Switzerland votes on whether to slash immigration

by Guest Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:53 am

The Swiss are voting in a referendum on whether to curb net immigration to no more than 0.2% of the population, in a vote heavily criticised by the main political parties.

If passed, the measure would require the government to reduce immigration from about 80,000 to 16,000 people a year.

Supporters argue that this would reduce pressure on the country's resources.

Opponents say that the measure would be bad for the economy.

The country voted in February to re-introduce immigration quotas, effectively opting out of a EU free movement agreement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30265437

I will be very interested to see if thy vote to restrict immigration what affect that has to their nation over 3-5 years. Though you cannot argue against their direct democracy which allows for people to create referendums.
Anyway I shall watch with interest.

by Lone Wolf Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:35 pm

WHO in their right mind would want to emigrate to Switzerland, of all places, anyway ?!?

clown

Switzerland votes on whether to slash immigration 8

by Ben Reilly Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:41 pm

I don't know, Switzerland seems kinda nice Smile

Beautiful mountains, no wars, real democracy ... sign me up!

Switzerland votes on whether to slash immigration Swiss_girl_fan

by Lone Wolf Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:34 pm

SOME of the most expensive food in the world;
SOME of the most expensive real estate in the world;
SOME of the most expensive energy, petrol and water costs..

RUN for and by the Swiss banking industry, with "rights" for both individuals and other businesses being a distant second to that of big businesses. With special protective laws to defend the Swiss banking sector against any and all international searches and investigations..

WITH the banks, cheese and chocolate companies running the show, they also have that dichotomy of always electing ultra-conservative RW governments, but the country also has a heavily protected and subsidised farming and food sector (even more so than the likes of the USA, Japan or France !).

Democracy ? In the lists of world democracies, Switzerland always misses out on the top 10 (usually headed by the likes of New Zealand, Finland or Sweden, this year's list had Oz at #8 and the UK at #9 (the USA was #15..)).

BUT to their credit they do produce some nice clocks and watches.. AND funny little cars. tongue

by nicko Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:51 pm

Do you know that it is a legal requirement for all Swiss to keep a fire arm in their home?

by Ben Reilly Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:10 pm

nicko wrote:Do you know that it is a legal requirement for all Swiss to keep a fire arm in their home?

Switzerland doesn't have a standing army like the U.S.A - instead, they have a 'people's militia'. The country's culture expects males, upon turning 20 or so, to enlist. Once enlisted, members receive several months of mandatory training and testing regarding WHEN and HOW to use a weapon. Upon successful training and testing, each member is given weapon(s) to store at home, in case the militia is called into action (this is why the per capita gun ownership rate is so high).

Here's an interesting point though: only the highest ranking militia members (just 2,000 people in the entire country) get to have ANY ammo in their homes; everyone else must get it from the nearest military compound in the event that the militia is called into action. This regulation came in 2007, as a response to concerns about potential gun related death (yes, that's correct: the country gun advocates love to hold up as a beacon of gun freedom has passed recent meaningful regulation to further curb gun violence). Prior to 2007, militia members were still only allowed 50 rounds of ammo in their home (the primary reason for the 50 rounds was to provide the militia member with enough ammunition to make their way to their military base in the event of an invasion), and those rounds were checked periodically to ensure that their usage was for authorized purposes only.

Also of note - much like the United States, Switzerland does have a recreational shooting culture. In fact, they host the largest rifle shooting competition in all the world every year (Feldschiessen weekend - generally more than 200,000 participants each year). Switzerland has multiple gun ranges where people can shoot for recreation. But, ammunition must be acquired at the range, and must be used and/or left at the range.

This isn't exactly the kind of gun utopia that gun advocates imply it to be.

http://jumpshotjarrod.newsvine.com/_news/2012/12/19/16026701-gun-advocates-enthusiasts-and-apologists-citing-switzerland-doesnt-help-your-cause

by Ben Reilly Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:12 pm

LW, globaldemocracy ranks Switzerland 4th (behind Sweden, Norway and Finland) for 2013:

http://democracyranking.org/wordpress/?page_id=738

by eddie Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:42 pm

Always wanted to go to Switzerland.

by Irn Bru Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:47 am

Voters say no to Ecopop initiative that would have seen net immigration slashed from 80,000 to 16,000 a year.

Massive vote rejecting the cap.

Final results showed 74.1% of voters said no in a referendum spearheaded by Ecopop, a group describing themselves as leftist ecologists, who claimed the country was being “buried under concrete” owing to the growing influx of foreigners.

The 5 million people eligible to vote also rebuffed two further proposals, one to force the central bank to increase its gold reserves and another to scrap a flat tax for rich expatriates.

“Switzerland screams a straightforward No, No, No!” the business daily Handelszeitung wrote.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/30/switzerland-rejects-immigration-cap

Well there we go then.

by Ben Reilly Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:58 am

Wow! So -- at least on the surface -- the reason to hold this vote wasn't any kind of BNPUKIPEDL hatred of immigrants in the first place ... and the Swiss still rejected it.

Good on the Swiss.

by Irn Bru Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:30 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Wow! So -- at least on the surface -- the reason to hold this vote wasn't any kind of BNPUKIPEDL hatred of immigrants in the first place ... and the Swiss still rejected it.

Good on the Swiss.

The far right groups in this country were probably hoping that the vote would go decisively the other way so that they could point and say....

Look, look, look at Switzerland. They have got it right, why can't we?

Shame eh?

by Irn Bru Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:07 am

Anyone know what a Sgian-dubh is?

It's a pigeon on holiday in Switzerland Laughing

by Lone Wolf Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:06 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
LW, globaldemocracy ranks Switzerland 4th (behind Sweden, Norway and Finland) for 2013:

http://democracyranking.org/wordpress/?page_id=738

SINCE the last time I looked at that list (whenever that was - more than two years ago, apparently !), NZ, Oz, Canada and Britain have all slipped down the charts (all in line with currently having Tory guvm'nts, you will notice..); while the Belgians, Suisse, and Norway have moved up a few notches...

by Lone Wolf Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:20 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
LW, globaldemocracy ranks Switzerland 4th (behind Sweden, Norway and Finland) for 2013:

http://democracyranking.org/wordpress/?page_id=738

HERE IS an even more depressing comparison for y'all :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Planet_Index

by Ben Reilly Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:34 pm

@Irn -- I'm sure that's right, they do the same thing in the U.S. to the point of flat-out making shit up about other countries:

Switzerland votes on whether to slash immigration Kristenneelstweet729-620x349

Switzerland votes on whether to slash immigration Kristenneelstweet729-620x349

(From when the atheist Gillard was PM)

@LW: Did I read that right, Denmark as the least-happy country? That's kind of odd ...

by veya_victaous Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:06 pm

Yeah there was a Bunch saying about "moving to Australia Because Of Obama care and Gun control" Suspect

we are like Texas in the Big, Hot and Cows departments but the opposite on Religion and Guns

by Irn Bru Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:08 pm

They talk about white flight over here but those talking about never seem to leave.

by Original Quill Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:27 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:LW, globaldemocracy ranks Switzerland 4th (behind Sweden, Norway and Finland) for 2013:

http://democracyranking.org/wordpress/?page_id=738

I am distrustful of rankings like these. Rankings are nothing if not a statement of criteria selected arbitrarily by subjective minds. I mean, it's the exact same thing I always say about the bible...who got to choose what went in and what didn't?

by veya_victaous Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:39 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:LW, globaldemocracy ranks Switzerland 4th (behind Sweden, Norway and Finland) for 2013:

http://democracyranking.org/wordpress/?page_id=738

I am distrustful of rankings like these. Rankings are nothing if not a statement of criteria selected arbitrarily by subjective minds. I mean, it's the exact same thing I always say about the bible...who got to choose what went in and what didn't?

Emperor Constantine Suspect

like literally Suspect

they say he only used about 10% to 20% of Pre-biblical Christian Texts to make the Bible.

by Original Quill Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:52 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I am distrustful of rankings like these. Rankings are nothing if not a statement of criteria selected arbitrarily by subjective minds. I mean, it's the exact same thing I always say about the bible...who got to choose what went in and what didn't?

Emperor Constantine like literally they say he only used about 10% to 20% of Pre-biblical Christian Texts to make the Bible.

I know...that's why I use him as an example. When people put together these rankings they try to make them appear like they are, well, scientific...like polls. But it's all in the coding. Like, who chose what counts? And why?

Same issue as with the Council of Nicaea, only they present it as if it's some magical mathematical computation. Maybe I'm overreacting...does anyone else feel that way? Nobody has the 'real' formula for democracy. Lord knows, Greek democracy bears no resemblance to modern, western democracy. Yet here we are presenting the yardstick of democracy as if it were etched in stone.

Meh...pay me no mind. Just ranting.

by veya_victaous Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:13 am

no you're right there is a lot of room to manipulate the results by simply deciding what factors to measure plus the weighting of issues..

Examples: Pay inequality is not equal to Violent Racism yet Both can score the same. And same with some sexual harassment stats in the west we are talking about catcalls in some places like India they are talking about Physical assaults so the percentages are the same but the are not the 'same' in real terms.

the problem with 'democracy' as a measure is what counts? who has democracy? We don't the USA definitely does not, we have some sort of democratic processes but it is far from Real Democracy at best it is 'representative democracy' which is so ridiculously open to Denial of Democracy it can be equal said it's Just a Fake a Decoy to make people think there is democracy.

Is it democratic to allow rich people to buy votes? (through lobbyists and advertising or directly Like in Ancient Rome) is the freedom to sell you vote more or less democratic? is being forced to vote more or less democratic? Is being given a choice of limited Preselected options Democracy? How is our System(with party nominations) any different than China approving the candidates fro the Hong Kong elections (Umbrella Movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests )

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