Steven Sotloff beheaded by ISIS

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11071159/Steven-Sotloff-beheaded-by-Islamic-State-live.html

Apprently a British person is next.

His family must be devastated, my thoughts are with them

It's just too awful to think about, but we must. Poor guy, apparently he was so brave.

Such a horrific barbarian act. I am so sad for his family. These IS have no morals.

It seems a British guy is now being threatened but not named? Surely someone knows who he is? His family must be frantic

feelthelove wrote:It seems a British guy is now being threatened but not named?  Surely someone knows who he is?  His family must be frantic

I heard the intelligence services know who is next

David wrote:

feelthelove wrote:It seems a British guy is now being threatened but not named?  Surely someone knows who he is?  His family must be frantic

I heard the intelligence services know who is next

It may already be too late Lovely David, how anyone could do that to another human being. I don't understand it

feelthelove wrote:

David wrote:

I heard the intelligence services know who is next

It may already be too late Lovely David, how anyone could do that to another human being.  I don't understand it

They don't deserve to be called human beings

There was a chap talking about this on Sky News the other day saying that perhaps we shouldn't be too worried about returning 'jihadists' because many of the young men who rushed to join this movement could be horrified and disillusioned because they didn't realise exactly what they had signed up for. They could come back and help to de-radicalise other Muslims by warning them not to get involved. That is an optimistic idea but may have a grain of sense.

David wrote:

feelthelove wrote:

It may already be too late Lovely David, how anyone could do that to another human being.  I don't understand it

They don't deserve to be called human beings

exactly david, and nor do they deserve "human rights"

victorisnotamused wrote:

David wrote:
They don't deserve to be called human beings

exactly david, and nor do they deserve "human rights"

...and yet we will give them human rights and beyond what most would consider "reasonable".  Yes we take the moral high ground, we do the right thing but we don't receive the earned respect in return.

I can understand why people are angry, absolutely

There is little or nothing we can do to control this situation or extremists in general

Frazzled wrote:There was a chap talking about this on Sky News the other day saying that perhaps we shouldn't be too worried about returning 'jihadists' because many of the young men who rushed to join this movement could be horrified and disillusioned because they didn't realise exactly what they had signed up for.  They could come back and help to de-radicalise other Muslims by warning them not to get involved.  That is an optimistic idea but may have a grain of sense.

They should be arrested more like. How could they not know what they signed up for? It's been all over the news for ages.

Not those who went in the early days to fight against the Assad regime. Loads of people had sympathy for the anti Assad rebels and the US and UK even considered sending arms.

Frazzled wrote:Not those who went in the early days to fight against the Assad regime.  Loads of people had sympathy for the anti Assad rebels and the US and UK even considered sending arms.

that's true...

I think they need to be detained and interviewed/debriefed and the decision made on a one by one basis.
If they are quite happy to submit to extra scrutiny of their activities for a period after they return then I think we can limit the risk the pose (to the same level of risk as 'Random Psycho')

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.613921


"Moreover, a solely punitive approach is far from useful. In fact, radicalization experts say it is counterproductive and dangerous. “Treating all foreign fighters as terrorists… risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy,” wrote Shiraz Maher and Peter Neumann of the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation (ICSR) at King’s College London. “It may sound tough, but it isn’t likely to be effective.”
Why? Because “their motivations for travelling to Syria are diverse, and it is wrong to think of them as a homogenous group,” explain Maher and Neumann.
In the fog of war, it is not only unclear just how many foreign fighters there are in Syria but also who they are fighting alongside and to what end. An ICSR report from the end of last year emphasised that the group affiliations for foreign fighters were known in only a fifth of cases. 
Of the remaining four-fifths, it is impossible to know how many are of the headline-grabbing ISIS variety of grizzly mass murderers, and how many are young idealists drawn to fight against a murderous dictator with moderate rebel groups, like generations of Europeans before them.
Even among those who go to wage jihad, many experience a change of heart once their abstract dreams are replaced by the gruesome reality. “We’re forced to stay and fight, what choice do we have? It’s sad,” one disillusioned jihadist who was afraid to return home admitted to ICSR.
This is the situation many disenchanted Arab jihadists found themselves in when their home countries stripped them of their nationality following the war in Afghanistan, forcing them further down the road to extremism and providing the nascent Al Qaeda with a core of fighters of which it would otherwise have been deprived.
Egypt and some other Arab countries have since drawn lessons from this. Rather than banishing jihadists, they have put in place de-radicalization programs. Effective [url=http://books.google.be/books?id=1fWrAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA26 -]de-radicalization initiatives[/url] can reap a threefold benefit in Europe: Regaining productive citizens, mitigating a terrorist threat and providing the best advertisement against the lure of jihad for would-be hotheads."


NB:  How do you use the quote box?

victorisnotamused wrote:

David wrote:
They don't deserve to be called human beings

exactly david, and nor do they deserve "human rights"

"Terrorist Response"...always the second victim.

Frazzled wrote:http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.613921


"Moreover, a solely punitive approach is far from useful. In fact, radicalization experts say it is counterproductive and dangerous. “Treating all foreign fighters as terrorists… risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy,” wrote Shiraz Maher and Peter Neumann of the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation (ICSR) at King’s College London. “It may sound tough, but it isn’t likely to be effective.”
Why? Because “their motivations for travelling to Syria are diverse, and it is wrong to think of them as a homogenous group,” explain Maher and Neumann.
In the fog of war, it is not only unclear just how many foreign fighters there are in Syria but also who they are fighting alongside and to what end. An ICSR report from the end of last year emphasised that the group affiliations for foreign fighters were known in only a fifth of cases. 
Of the remaining four-fifths, it is impossible to know how many are of the headline-grabbing ISIS variety of grizzly mass murderers, and how many are young idealists drawn to fight against a murderous dictator with moderate rebel groups, like generations of Europeans before them.
Even among those who go to wage jihad, many experience a change of heart once their abstract dreams are replaced by the gruesome reality. “We’re forced to stay and fight, what choice do we have? It’s sad,” one disillusioned jihadist who was afraid to return home admitted to ICSR.
This is the situation many disenchanted Arab jihadists found themselves in when their home countries stripped them of their nationality following the war in Afghanistan, forcing them further down the road to extremism and providing the nascent Al Qaeda with a core of fighters of which it would otherwise have been deprived.
Egypt and some other Arab countries have since drawn lessons from this. Rather than banishing jihadists, they have put in place de-radicalization programs. Effective [url=http://books.google.be/books?id=1fWrAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA26 -]de-radicalization initiatives[/url] can reap a threefold benefit in Europe: Regaining productive citizens, mitigating a terrorist threat and providing the best advertisement against the lure of jihad for would-be hotheads."


NB:  How do you use the quote box?

Britain already has radicalizing processes.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/09/terrorism-do-deradicalisation-camps-work

Frazzled wrote:http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.613921

Quote Box wrote:"Moreover, a solely punitive approach is far from useful. In fact, radicalization experts say it is counterproductive and dangerous. “Treating all foreign fighters as terrorists… risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy,” wrote Shiraz Maher and Peter Neumann of the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation (ICSR) at King’s College London. “It may sound tough, but it isn’t likely to be effective.”
Why? Because “their motivations for travelling to Syria are diverse, and it is wrong to think of them as a homogenous group,” explain Maher and Neumann.
In the fog of war, it is not only unclear just how many foreign fighters there are in Syria but also who they are fighting alongside and to what end. An ICSR report from the end of last year emphasised that the group affiliations for foreign fighters were known in only a fifth of cases. 
Of the remaining four-fifths, it is impossible to know how many are of the headline-grabbing ISIS variety of grizzly mass murderers, and how many are young idealists drawn to fight against a murderous dictator with moderate rebel groups, like generations of Europeans before them.
Even among those who go to wage jihad, many experience a change of heart once their abstract dreams are replaced by the gruesome reality. “We’re forced to stay and fight, what choice do we have? It’s sad,” one disillusioned jihadist who was afraid to return home admitted to ICSR.
This is the situation many disenchanted Arab jihadists found themselves in when their home countries stripped them of their nationality following the war in Afghanistan, forcing them further down the road to extremism and providing the nascent Al Qaeda with a core of fighters of which it would otherwise have been deprived.
Egypt and some other Arab countries have since drawn lessons from this. Rather than banishing jihadists, they have put in place de-radicalization programs. Effective [url=http://books.google.be/books?id=1fWrAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA26 -]de-radicalization initiatives[/url] can reap a threefold benefit in Europe: Regaining productive citizens, mitigating a terrorist threat and providing the best advertisement against the lure of jihad for would-be hotheads."

NB:  How do you use the quote box?

You high-lite the passage you want to quote, push the button above that looks like a cartoon balloon, fill in the pop-up that asks who wrote it, and push 'insert' button.

Original Quill wrote:


You high-lite the passage you want to quote, push the button above that looks like a cartoon balloon, fill in the pop-up that asks who wrote it, and push 'insert' button.

 Thanks 

Original Quill wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:

exactly david, and nor do they deserve "human rights"

"Terrorist Response"...always the second victim.

WHAT?????????????

surely at least theoretically, it would not be an unjust law that provided for someone who abrogates the human rights of another without damn good reason to lose their human rights, especially when it comes to the "right to life".

victorisnotamused wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

"Terrorist Response"...always the second victim.

WHAT?????????????

surely at least theoretically, it would not be an unjust law that provided for someone who abrogates  the human rights of another without damn good reason to lose their human rights, especially when it comes to the "right to life".

But like the NRA, you cannot distinguish between the good guys and the bad guys. So you toss all of civil-rights.

Look at all the shit we have to go through just to grab an airplane from NYC to Miami, or LA to SF. The greatest weapon that the "terrorists" have uncovered so far is "terrorist response." They can't do shit on the battlefield, but they can cause massive upheavals in airports over here and in the UK.

To me, that looks pretty effective. Looks like they are winning.

Original Quill wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:

WHAT?????????????

surely at least theoretically, it would not be an unjust law that provided for someone who abrogates  the human rights of another without damn good reason to lose their human rights, especially when it comes to the "right to life".

But like the NRA, you cannot distinguish between the good guys and the bad guys.  So you toss all of civil-rights.

Look at all the shit we have to go through just to grab an airplane from NYC to Miami, or LA to SF.  The greatest weapon that the "terrorists" have uncovered so far is "terrorist response."  They can't do shit on the battlefield, but they can cause massive upheavals in airports over here and in the UK.

To me, that looks pretty effective.  Looks like they are winning.

Only because the west approach is hindered by media attention and moral views, which without and we took a harder line as of which used to happen with the hijacking of airlines, they were then made completely ineffective the terrorists. Public opinion sways how a war is conducted and to some extent left wing views hinder how military conflicts are through which we always place the west at a disadvantage when they do.
Also civil rights are denied in countless areas, it does not mean you have to throw them all out of the window, where no soldier is covered by civil rights when engaged in combat, so why should a terrorist be, just because their methods are cowardly?
We deny prisoners civil rights when they commit crimes also, thus civil rights are denied all the time and thus there is then nothing wrong with deeming those who commit terror to lose all civil rights.

Anyway, have to go, so catch you and Victor later

Bye chaps

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

But like the NRA, you cannot distinguish between the good guys and the bad guys.  So you toss all of civil-rights.

Look at all the shit we have to go through just to grab an airplane from NYC to Miami, or LA to SF.  The greatest weapon that the "terrorists" have uncovered so far is "terrorist response."  They can't do shit on the battlefield, but they can cause massive upheavals in airports over here and in the UK.

To me, that looks pretty effective.  Looks like they are winning.

Only because the west approach is hindered by media attention and moral views, which without and we took a harder line as of which used to happen with the hijacking of airlines, they were completely ineffective. Public opinion sways how a war is conducted and to some extent left wing views hinder how military conflicts are though which we always place the west at a disadvantage when they do.
Also civil rights are denied in countless areas, it does not mean you have to throw them all out of the window, where no soldier is covered by civil rights when engaged in combat, so why should a terrorist be, just because their methods are cowardly?
We deny prisoners civil rights when they commit crimes also, thus civil rights are denied all the time and thus there is then nothing wrong with deeming those who commit terror to lose all civil rights.

WTF...you think less truth is the answer? Media my ass.

I think we have gotta stop being pussies about what is going on in Iraq. They're cutting off heads. Fook, the guy's dead...he doesn't care. Why should you?

Western nations...they are playing y'all like a violin. I repeat...it's the only battlefield they have.

Didge wrote:Anyway, have to go, so catch you and Victor later

Bye chaps

Me too. Good chatting with you, Didge.

feelthelove wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:

exactly david, and nor do they deserve "human rights"

...and yet we will give them human rights and beyond what most would consider "reasonable".  Yes we take the moral high ground, we do the right thing but we don't receive the earned respect in return.

I can understand why people are angry, absolutely

There is little or nothing we can do to control this situation or extremists in general

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evening folks. Trouble is some of them who want to come back here will cry human rights, saying they have family connections here. Thus they may be allowed back by the HR act. I was pleased to see on the news Cameron is considering sending in our planes to bomb them. Personally I think all EU nations, plus America, should send in thousands of ground forces, surrounded the evil bastards, (pardon), and kill the lot of them. They do not deserve being treated humanely. They do not understand the word 'compassion.'

stardesk wrote:

feelthelove wrote:

...and yet we will give them human rights and beyond what most would consider "reasonable".  Yes we take the moral high ground, we do the right thing but we don't receive the earned respect in return.

I can understand why people are angry, absolutely

There is little or nothing we can do to control this situation or extremists in general

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evening folks. Trouble is some of them who want to come back here will cry human rights, saying they have family connections here. Thus they may be allowed back by the HR act. I was pleased to see on the news Cameron is considering sending in our planes to bomb them. Personally I think all EU nations, plus America, should send in thousands of ground forces, surrounded the evil bastards, (pardon), and kill the lot of them. They do not deserve being treated humanely. They do not understand the word 'compassion.'

Hello my Gorgeous East Anglian Buddy :astwinsas: xxx

Hope you are well.  For me I guess the issue I have is that we don't have a level playing field. I wouldn't want us to lower our standards but in the same breath I don't want us to be taken advantage of and people put at risk.  How on earth do these people live with themselves, I just don't understand it.

Humanity? Clearly not applicable to all

FTL: Hi my lovely Lady. I hope you and your family are well.

What I find tragic and sad is the number of children who are killed and badly injured in conflicts. The Gaza conflict reminded me of the Vietnam war. I've posted 3 pics in the topic 'Evil Humanity.' Nothing changes does it. The trouble with IS and others like them is they're so entrenched in their religious beliefs and way of life, it is impossible for them to think out of the box. Anyone not behaving and believing as they do, is wrong. Thus we have a primitive outlook on life and the resulting conflicts.