Israeli Shell Strikes Gaza School: 15 Dead

The UN-run school was being used as a shelter by hundreds of Palestinians fleeing an Israeli operation in the city of Beit Hanun.

At least 15 people have been killed, including a baby, after an Israeli shell struck a UN-run school in northern Gaza.

A UN official confirmed there were "multiple dead and injured" in the attack on a school in the city of Beit Hanun.

"Precise coordinates of the UNRWA shelter had been formally given to the Israeli army , Chris Gunness, a spokesman for the UN's Palestinian refugee agency said on his Twitter account.

The facility was being used as a shelter by hundreds of Palestinians fleeing a major Israeli operation in the area.

At least 150 people were injured in the blast - the fourth time a UN facility has been hit during the start of the recent conflict.

More follows...

http://news.sky.com/story/1306832/israeli-shell-strikes-gaza-school-15-dead

Damn them to hell!

Yep !

Why on earth the UN is not getting involved and sending in peacekeepers is beyond me.

Christ Gerbs, just seen the report on tv, child after child full of shrapnel, children screaming and traumatised, the reporter said it was a day that will live with him for the rest of his life.

Bastards, total bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BBC report and video:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28468526

'One of the few places they thought they would be safe'

I don't think it's enough to just have a ceasefire, I think that those responsible need to be brought to justice as this is amounting to a war crime. It's no good saying they didn't mean to hit the school, they know the risks of hurting civilians.

Those who are firing rockets from Gaza also need to be taken out or brought to justice as well obviously.

I thought the Israelis had a good intelligence network. There must be a better way for them to take out the terrorists without all this indiscriminate killing.

The UN said Israel had the co-ordinates of the school so they could avoid it.   There is absolutely no excuse.   There were children being treated on the floor, and eight month old baby have schrapnel picked out of he is back, they didn't have time to give him an anaesthetic, the death toll is going to rise and so many wounded.      Vile, absolutely vile.   One man screaming because six of his children had been blown up in front of his eyes.   Man's inhumanity to man couldn't get worse.

Raggamuffin wrote:I thought the Israelis had a good intelligence network. There must be a better way for them to take out the terrorists without all this indiscriminate killing.

The Hamas people frustrate any such intelligence by moving families, women and children in harms way as soon as they anticipate any in-coming artillery.  And of course, they place their own rocket batteries right in the middle of hospitals, schools and places of worship.

This war is not about explosives, but public relations.  The more bloodied victims that Hamas can show off to the press, the better they score.  The fact that they (Hamas) took steps to insure such injuries would occure is lost in all of the shock and suffering.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I thought the Israelis had a good intelligence network. There must be a better way for them to take out the terrorists without all this indiscriminate killing.

The Hamas people frustrate any such intelligence by moving families, women and children in harms way as soon as they anticipate any in-coming artillery.  And of course, they place their own rocket batteries right in the middle of hospitals, schools and places of worship.

This war is not about explosives, but public relations.  The more bloodied victims that Hamas can show off to the press, the better they score.  The fact that they (Hamas) took steps to insure such injuries would occure is lost in all of the shock and suffering.

Surely the school was not a target to start with, so it would make no difference if families were moved there. If the civilians were at military sites, that would make more sense, but why would they go to a military site anyway?

If there is a rocket launcher in the middle of a hospital or school, the Israelis could go in and take it out. Of course that would lead to the death of some soldiers, but isn't what they risk anyway?

Total bollocks, the UN have said that they asked Israel if they could move the people and Israel refused.

Sorry Rags, that was to Quill not to you.


As far as Israel is concerned, everything is a target, including churches, they want Gaza, and they are not going to stop.

I felt the same about the Iraq bombing. The US and UK knew there would be "collateral damage", but they went ahead anyway.

Raggamuffin wrote:I felt the same about the Iraq bombing. The US and UK knew there would be "collateral damage", but they went ahead anyway.

Absolutely destroyed the place, then their companies charged to rebuild things. Oh yes, the armies rebuilt some, but most was by private companies and they made a fortune.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

The Hamas people frustrate any such intelligence by moving families, women and children in harms way as soon as they anticipate any in-coming artillery.  And of course, they place their own rocket batteries right in the middle of hospitals, schools and places of worship.

This war is not about explosives, but public relations.  The more bloodied victims that Hamas can show off to the press, the better they score.  The fact that they (Hamas) took steps to insure such injuries would occure is lost in all of the shock and suffering.

Surely the school was not a target to start with, so it would make no difference if families were moved there. If the civilians were at military sites, that would make more sense, but why would they go to a military site anyway?

If there is a rocket launcher in the middle of a hospital or school, the Israelis could go in and take it out. Of course that would lead to the death of some soldiers, but isn't what they risk anyway?

As I said, in the case of schools, hospitals and places of worship the missile launchers are placed there to begin with.  Placing children and families in harms was is simply a part of the same strategy.

The overriding principle here is that this is a PR (public relations) war to begin with.  Hamas is Iran, and it has very little care or concern for Palestinian lives over in Gaza.  It scores a 'hit' when it can place a bloodied body before a news camera.

More bollocks that the Israeli use as an excuse, people on the ground say it doesn't happen. And in this particular case the UN were talking to Israel because bombs were landing round the school, it had been designated a 'safe haven' by the UN and Israel, which is why Israel were given the co-ordinates to avoid it.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Surely the school was not a target to start with, so it would make no difference if families were moved there. If the civilians were at military sites, that would make more sense, but why would they go to a military site anyway?

If there is a rocket launcher in the middle of a hospital or school, the Israelis could go in and take it out. Of course that would lead to the death of some soldiers, but isn't what they risk anyway?

As I said, in the case of schools, hospitals and places of worship the missile launchers are placed there to begin with.  Placing children and families in harms was is simply a part of the same strategy.

The overriding principle here is that this is a PR (public relations) war to begin with.  Hamas is Iran, and it has very little care or concern for Palestinian lives over in Gaza.  It scores a 'hit' when it can place a bloodied body before a news camera.

Well then the Israeli intelligence would pick up that the rocket launcher is placed at a school or hospital. If they know there's a rocket launcher is there, they will know what else is there, and if they don't, they are criminally negligent.

So the Israelis told the people to leave the school via a message from the Red Cross or whatever, but they didn't bother to find out if they did actually leave.

They they blamed Hamas for not allowing the people to leave. Well they should checked before they decided to attack it.

Why are they not getting these Hamas people anyway? They keep targeting the bits where the rockets are coming from, but they don't appear to be successful. So much for the "sophisticated" Israeli forces.

Raggamuffin wrote:So the Israelis told the people to leave the school via a message from the Red Cross or whatever, but they didn't bother to find out if they did actually leave.

They they blamed Hamas for not allowing the people to leave. Well they should checked before they decided to attack it.

Why are they not getting these Hamas people anyway? They keep targeting the bits where the rockets are coming from, but they don't appear to be successful. So much for the "sophisticated" Israeli forces.

Not quite Rags. The UN and the Israeli's agreed that it would be a place of safety and were given the co-ordinates. When there was a supposed humanitarian pause, the UN asked Israeli if they could get the people out because the shells were landing very close. Israel refused and started shelling again before what was supposed to be the end of the humanitarian pause. When rather points to them doing it on purpose.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:So the Israelis told the people to leave the school via a message from the Red Cross or whatever, but they didn't bother to find out if they did actually leave.

They they blamed Hamas for not allowing the people to leave. Well they should checked before they decided to attack it.

Why are they not getting these Hamas people anyway? They keep targeting the bits where the rockets are coming from, but they don't appear to be successful. So much for the "sophisticated" Israeli forces.

Not quite Rags.   The UN and the Israeli's agreed that it would be a place of safety and were given the co-ordinates.   When there was a supposed humanitarian pause, the UN asked Israeli if they could get the people out because the shells were landing very close.   Israel refused and started shelling again before what was supposed to be the end of the humanitarian pause.   When rather points to them doing it on purpose.

I'm going by a report from Sky News. Here's the link.

http://news.sky.com/story/1306832/israeli-tank-shells-gaza-school-15-dead

But the Israel Defence Forces (IDF), posting on its official Twitter feed, said Hamas had prevented people evacuating the area.

It wrote: "Last night, we told Red Cross to evacuate civilians from UNRWA's shelter in Beit Hanoun btw 10am & 2pm. UNRWA & Red Cross got the message.

"Hamas prevented civilians from evacuating the area during the window that we gave them.

Well it's not what the UN are saying.

Just watching BBC news, while they were reporting at the hospital when a shell went off just down the road.

Sassy wrote:Well it's not what the UN are saying.

Just watching BBC news, while they were reporting at the hospital when a shell went off just down the road.

Well either way, it's criminal IMO. Either they did it on purpose, or they didn't bother to check.

It's time someone was held to account for all this. The US will block any attempt to bring them to justice though.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:Well it's not what the UN are saying.

Just watching BBC news, while they were reporting at the hospital when a shell went off just down the road.

Well either way, it's criminal IMO. Either they did it on purpose, or they didn't bother to check.

It's time someone was held to account for all this. The US will block any attempt to bring them to justice though.

Absolutely agree. Israel have lost because of this. People all over the world are already opposing them and as more and more brutality is shown the backlash against Jewish people abroad is getting worse, which is horrible to. Israel are saying it's like 1939, no it's not, then the Jewish people didn't have a state, and there wasn't an Israel acting like thugs. When Muslims factions do something awful there is a backlash against Muslims who had nothing to do with it. Israel are now causing the same thing to Jewish people in other countries. Perceptions have been changed, they are no longer seen as the victim but the bully.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:Well it's not what the UN are saying.

Just watching BBC news, while they were reporting at the hospital when a shell went off just down the road.

Well either way, it's criminal IMO. Either they did it on purpose, or they didn't bother to check.

It's time someone was held to account for all this. The US will block any attempt to bring them to justice though.

+1 bazillion

Abserbloodylutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It certainly is a mess. What do you suggest, Raggs?

Raggs

I completely agree

And IMO would be in there boots an' all on the ground.  Too many votes would insist.

Original Quill wrote:It certainly is a mess.  What do you suggest, Raggs?

A more subtle approach. The Israelis must know where these rockets are coming from, so they need to get in there and take them out in a subtle manner without killing everyone else around. They should be disguised as ordinary citizens and search the streets all the time, or lurk on roof tops so they can spot what's happening.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:It certainly is a mess.  What do you suggest, Raggs?

A more subtle approach. The Israelis must know where these rockets are coming from, so they need to get in there and take them out in a subtle manner without killing everyone else around. They should be disguised as ordinary citizens and search the streets all the time, or lurk on roof tops so they can spot what's happening.

Risky and expensive. You are suggesting special ops. Surgical strikes. Go in, get out, all in a flash. Only problem is, you get killed.

On the other hand, if you go in with sufficient force to shock and awe, you get the same job done, at less expense, and you get out alive.

It seems to me you are asking too much, all to combat the PR that Hamas has created. Israel should not be asked to give up the strategic high ground, just because it will look better to bystanders. They are shooting back.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

A more subtle approach. The Israelis must know where these rockets are coming from, so they need to get in there and take them out in a subtle manner without killing everyone else around. They should be disguised as ordinary citizens and search the streets all the time, or lurk on roof tops so they can spot what's happening.

Risky and expensive.  You are suggesting special ops.  Surgical strikes.  Go in, get out, all in a flash.  Only problem is, you get killed.

On the other hand, if you go in with sufficient force to shock and awe, you get the same job done, at less expense, and you get out alive.

It seems to me you are asking too much, all to combat the PR that Hamas has created.  Israel should not be asked to give up the strategic high ground, just because it will look better to bystanders.  They are shooting back.

Not as expensive as this war surely. What they need to do is take out the people who are operating the rockets - that shouldn't be too difficult - a sniper or two can do that. Of course they run the risk of being attacked by supporters of Hamas, but ordinary people would surely turn a blind eye because it's safer for them to do so.

Israel are risking being ostracised by the rest of the world, so it wouldn't do their image any harm to stop killing all these innocent bystanders.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Risky and expensive.  You are suggesting special ops.  Surgical strikes.  Go in, get out, all in a flash.  Only problem is, you get killed.

On the other hand, if you go in with sufficient force to shock and awe, you get the same job done, at less expense, and you get out alive.

It seems to me you are asking too much, all to combat the PR that Hamas has created.  Israel should not be asked to give up the strategic high ground, just because it will look better to bystanders.  They are shooting back.

Not as expensive as this war surely. What they need to do is take out the people who are operating the rockets - that shouldn't be too difficult - a sniper or two can do that. Of course they run the risk of being attacked by supporters of Hamas, but ordinary people would surely turn a blind eye because it's safer for them to do so.

In fact, it is war.  A much more expensive way to wage war...both in terms of money, and lives.  We no longer hide behind trees and shoot the redcoats who march all in a row.  Getting a sniper in...and out...is the most expensive, least productive way to remove the problem.  They (Hamas) just replace the button-pushers with another one in the next minute.

You gotta take out the missiles.  That means big explosions.  In turn, that means collateral damage.

Raggamuffin wrote:Israel are risking being ostracised by the rest of the world, so it wouldn't do their image any harm to stop killing all these innocent bystanders.

I don't think they are worried.  At least, not enough to change their ways.  Europe will cluck around the farmyard and do nothing.  Russia will continue to supply arms for the fun of it; but she's no match for the US, as we saw with the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI).  The US, for its part, will continue to support Israel.

Israel's concerns are of the magnitude of shutting down Ben Gurion Airport, because the American FAA makes it a no-fly zone.

You see why Hamas, and behind it Iran, are making this a PR effort?  The only weapon that they have is public opinion.  Only problem is...it's the wrong public.