Israel using flechette shells in Gaza

Human rights group accuses Israel military of using shells that spray out thousand of tiny and potentially lethal darts


An image provided by the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights of darts from a flechette shell it says the Israeli military fired in Gaza last week.

The Israeli military is using flechette shells, which spray out thousands of tiny and potentially lethal metal darts, in its military operation in Gaza.

Six flechette shells were fired towards the village of Khuzaa, east of Khan Younis, on 17 July, according to the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights. Nahla Khalil Najjar, 37, suffered injuries to her chest, it said. PCHR provided a picture of flechettes taken by a fieldworker last week.

The Israel Defence Forces (IDF) did not deny using the shells in the conflict. "As a rule, the IDF only employs weapons that have been determined lawful under international law, and in a manner which fully conforms with the laws of armed conflict," a spokesperson said in response to a request for specific comment on the deployment of flechettes.

B'Tselem, an Israeli human rights organisation, describes a flechette shell as "an anti-personnel weapon that is generally fired from a tank. The shell explodes in the air and releases thousands of metal darts 37.5mm in length, which disperse in a conical arch 300 metres long and about 90 metres wide".

The munitions are not prohibited under international humanitarian law, but according to B'Tselem, "other rules of humanitarian law render their use in the Gaza Strip illegal. One of the most fundamental principles is the obligation to distinguish between those who are involved and those who are not involved in the fighting, and to avoid to the extent possible injury to those who are not involved. Deriving from this principle is the prohibition of the use of an imprecise weapon which is likely to result in civilian injuries."


A image taken in 2009 of darts from a flechette shell embedded in a wall in Gaza. Photograph: Ben Curtis/AP

The legality of flechette munitions was upheld by the Israeli supreme court in 2002, and according to an Israeli military source, they are particularly effective against enemy fighters operating in areas covered by vegetation.

The source said a number of armies around the world deploy flechette shells, and that they were intended solely for use against legitimate military targets in accordance with international law.

The IDF has deployed flechette shells in Gaza and Lebanon before. B'Tselem has documented the deaths of nine Palestinians in Gaza from flechettes in 2001 and 2002. Flechettes have also killed and wounded dozens of civilians, including women and children, in conflicts between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon.

The Israeli military deployed artillery shells containing white phosphorous in densely populated areas of Gaza during Operation Cast Lead in 2008 and 2009, causing scores of deaths and extensive burns. It initially issued a categorical denial of reports of the use of white phosphorous, but later admitted it, saying the weapon was only used to create smokescreens.

Human Rights Watch said its use of the munitions in Operation Cast Lead was indiscriminate and evidence of war crimes.

In response to a legal challenge, the IDF said last year it would "avoid the use in built-up areas of artillery shells containing white phosphorus, with two narrow exceptions." The exceptions were not disclosed.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-using-flechette-shells-in-gaza

What have they got to do with taking out rockets. Fucking Animals!

Another day, another war crime.

If that report is accurate then it is absolutely disgusting that they are using these against unarmed civilians.
Firing rockets into Israel at unarmed civilians is disgusting and rightly condemned but this is a lot worse because the Israeli's are absolutely able to direct them accurately at civilians in built up areas.
There is no excuse for this.

There can only be one reason to use them, kill and maim as many civilians as possible.

Perhaps Didge and Quill could condemn the use of these weapons that only inflict civilian casualties

So, any condemnation?

?

Well try this one Rags, this is to be deplored whatever your view.

It is not illegal!


What is or could be construed as illegal is its use, of which it needs to be proven if they only targeted civilians and not militants. We only have Hamas to say who has died, which leaves much open to interpretation. If it has been used against civilians, that is a war crime and very wrong

Sassy wrote:Well try this one Rags, this is to be deplored whatever your view.

I'm trying to keep up with all the latest news and all the different threads, but of course I condemn it. I haven't followed this latest conflict very closely because I have other issues to deal with, but I'm doing my best.

I agree, a lot to keep up with, and all horrific.

Sassy wrote:I agree, a lot to keep up with, and all horrific.

Yes. I don't know which thread to say this on, so I'll say it here.

One can sit on a forum and condemn this or that, and then it becomes an exercise in who has that moral high ground. However, in the real world, what is anyone going to do? I think there is still a lot of collective guilt re the Holocaust and persecution of Jews, so everyone is still reluctant to condemn Israel. The Americans have supported them for so long, so they're unlikely to do anything apart from say that it's not on. Same with the UK.

Short of actually attacking Israel until they stop, there seems to be no way to stop this outrage.

The other issue is that the threat to the UK comes largely from Muslim extremists and terrorists these days, so are people really going to stick their neck out in support of Muslim terrorists in Gaza?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:I agree, a lot to keep up with, and all horrific.

Yes. I don't know which thread to say this on, so I'll say it here.

One can sit on a forum and condemn this or that, and then it becomes an exercise in who has that moral high ground. However, in the real world, what is anyone going to do? I think there is still a lot of collective guilt re the Holocaust and persecution of Jews, so everyone is still reluctant to condemn Israel. The Americans have supported them for so long, so they're unlikely to do anything apart from say that it's not on. Same with the UK.

Short of actually attacking Israel until they stop, there seems to be no way to stop this outrage.

The other issue is that the threat to the UK comes largely from Muslim extremists and terrorists these days, so are people really going to stick their neck out in support of Muslim terrorists in Gaza?

But we can influence it.   Israel gets huge absolutely massive amounts of aid from America.   America could stop that, we could have a trade embargo.   We could stop them building on Palestinian land.   Hamas agreed to a unity government with Fatah and the recognition of Israel.   Israel wouldn't let it go ahead because they want Palestine, so they continued to build.   The life of a Gazan is a life of imprisonment and hell.   All they want is for Israel to stop taking their land, lift the embargo they have round it so they can get equipment of rebuild their sewage system, get supplies to keep their electricity going, at the moment they only have it 4 hours a day, and do something about the water supply so their children don't have to drink contaminated water.   They want to fish in their seas, which is stopped by Israel, and farm their lands, which Israel either confiscates or shoots farmers in their fields, and they want the land back that the UN says Israel has built on illegally.

What have they got to do with taking out rockets. Fucking Animals!

Rockets don't fire themselves, dear!

 

Irn Bru wrote:If that report is accurate then it is absolutely disgusting that they are using these against unarmed civilians.
Firing rockets into Israel at unarmed civilians is disgusting and rightly condemned but this is a lot worse because the Israeli's are absolutely able to direct them accurately at civilians in built up areas.
There is no excuse for this.

And conversely "absolutely able to direct them accurately away from civilians".

Now, get a load of this:

The arabs are a lot worse because they are absolutely not able to direct their sh1t at all!

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes. I don't know which thread to say this on, so I'll say it here.

One can sit on a forum and condemn this or that, and then it becomes an exercise in who has that moral high ground. However, in the real world, what is anyone going to do? I think there is still a lot of collective guilt re the Holocaust and persecution of Jews, so everyone is still reluctant to condemn Israel. The Americans have supported them for so long, so they're unlikely to do anything apart from say that it's not on. Same with the UK.

Short of actually attacking Israel until they stop, there seems to be no way to stop this outrage.

The other issue is that the threat to the UK comes largely from Muslim extremists and terrorists these days, so are people really going to stick their neck out in support of Muslim terrorists in Gaza?

But we can influence it.   Israel gets huge absolutely massive amounts of aid from America.   America could stop that, we could have a trade embargo.   We could stop them building on Palestinian land.   Hamas agreed to a unity government with Fatah and the recognition of Israel.   Israel wouldn't let it go ahead because they want Palestine, so they continued to build.   The life of a Gazan is a life of imprisonment and hell.   All they want is for Israel to stop taking their land, lift the embargo they have round it so they can get equipment of rebuild their sewage system, get supplies to keep their electricity going, at the moment they only have it 4 hours a day, and do something about the water supply so their children don't have to drink contaminated water.   They want to fish in their seas, which is stopped by Israel, and farm their lands, which Israel either confiscates or shoots farmers in their fields, and they want the land back that the UN says Israel has built on illegally.

If the US does that, it will change their relationship with Israel for ever. They need Israel - or they think they do.

True, but at the moment Israel says jump and America says, how high. If it said no, the whole situation would change.

Sassy wrote:There can only be one reason to use them, kill and maim as many civilians as possible.

They have had a good teacher from islam where maim and kill is concerned .

These shells should not be used in civilian populated areas.

Tommy Monk wrote:These shells should not be used in civilian populated areas.

part of the problem is that all that is left of Palestine is civilian populated areas     
Israel has the capacity to use more 'responsible' munitions that woudl limit civilian casualties (if they were interested in doing so)


Interesting on what Andy said that Hamas is worse since they don't even have targeting systems
but the counter point to that is Hamas with out targeting systems has killed 0.2% the number of civilians as the Israelis with their advanced targeting systems.....
Surely Israel with it superior technology should be better at not killing civilians       

the Worst thing here is by combination of Israel not avoiding/minimising civilian deaths, the choice in munitions and the Military strategies it is deploying... It is not waging a war of Occupation, it is waging a war of Annihilation against the Palestinians.... and we call that Genocide