UN to investigate Israel's Gaza offensive

veya_victaous wrote:I'll just point out the NUMBERS
Hamas has killed 34 people 32 of which were soldiers
94.1% of deaths have been Legitimate LEGAL targets

Israel has killed 693 people of which approximately 150 have been militants (by Israel's own account)
only 21.6% of deaths have been Legitimate LEGAL targets

ALSO
talk about a fucking Joke The Israel minister accusing the UN Human rights watch of Being Anti-Semitic.
To Me that Pretty much sums up HOW much in the wrong and how much Israel is Full of shit about it's justifications
For Israel's claims of doing the right thing to be true
then the UN, Amnesty international and The Humans rights commission have to all be Anti Semites in a conspiracy against the Jews because are telling Israel to stop committing War crimes

Hamas aren't good but they are so weak they are almost inconsequential, plus under 6% collateral damage in terms of civilian deaths if also Massively better than the USA UK and Australia had in recent wars.

victorisnotamused wrote:yeah, maybe.....BUT the law is the law

OTH sides are to various degrees culpable and should therfore face trial....

the sentence may be different, according to the culpability.....
but still


oh and hamas' war crimes are not soley dependant upon their actions against israel....

they ARE using "human sheilds" and placing military hardware in civilian areas deliberately....

so that does need to be addressed.....

Andrew P street wrote:And in hideous atrocity update news, the Palestinian death toll has passed 700 people as Israel continue their missile strikes against the Gaza Strip, with the the UN high commissioner for human rights, Navi Pillay, saying that "There seems to be a strong possibility that international law has been violated in a manner that could amount to war crimes."

Hamas, who govern the region, have reportedly announced that they are open to a "humanitarian truce", which is a couple of steps down from an actual ceasefire - which they is contingent on conditions like opening the borders of Gaza so that civilians can actually escape.

Israel is holding firm on insisting these conditions are unreasonable, because being able to kill people is the entire idea of firing missiles into Gaza. If you can't kill 'em, what's the point of even bombing 'em?

And showing sympathy for one side or the other opens one up to a whole lot of furious invective about the right of Palestine to exist and the right of Israel to protect itself, both of which seem pretty reasonable requests but - crucially - neither of which necessarily involve murdering civilian men, women and children.

veya_victaous wrote:

Andrew P street wrote:And in hideous atrocity update news, the Palestinian death toll has passed 700 people as Israel continue their missile strikes against the Gaza Strip, with the the UN high commissioner for human rights, Navi Pillay, saying that "There seems to be a strong possibility that international law has been violated in a manner that could amount to war crimes."

Hamas, who govern the region, have reportedly announced that they are open to a "humanitarian truce", which is a couple of steps down from an actual ceasefire - which they is contingent on conditions like opening the borders of Gaza so that civilians can actually escape.

Israel is holding firm on insisting these conditions are unreasonable, because being able to kill people is the entire idea of firing missiles into Gaza. If you can't kill 'em, what's the point of even bombing 'em?

And showing sympathy for one side or the other opens one up to a whole lot of furious invective about the right of Palestine to exist and the right of Israel to protect itself, both of which seem pretty reasonable requests but - crucially - neither of which necessarily involve murdering civilian men, women and children.

Didge wrote:These absurd posts on ratios of death failing to understand the whole point, if Hamas had the capabilities, the death toll would far exceed Palestine. Again Veya is wrong on stats being as 3 civilians have died and maybe a picture showing a wounded Bedouin child receiving treatment from a rocket attack will also show people are being utterly ridiculous on the fatality situation.
Israel as stated has committed some war crimes with their shelling as it can be indiscriminate and on every level Israel warns in advance of its attacks, Hamas does not, Israel is going after legit military targets and where they have got this wrong I have condemned, but those who post crap saying most rockets do not get through, when the reality is they do and each and everyone is indiscriminate, thus a war crimes, shows how people poorly do not even condemn them, but poorly down play them. Most are just inaccurate and how long will it be before they are as the dome can only bring a percentage down. Maybe some will not be happy until Hamas can kill as many civilians as possible, because lets face reality, Hamas uses humans as shields and wants their own people dead for PR and if they had the capability as of Israel, then we would be looking at 20,000 dead Israeli's by now, because as seen they do not even warn, which shows how limited those who argue against Israel are in their arguments The reality is Hamas is allowing as many civilians to die as possible, they have built no shelters and place rockets right within civilian areas, there is no excuse and all the arguments on it being too built up is bullshit, as it is a war crime, end of story and there many areas outside of Gaza city where they can install these rockets, but they do not want to as clearly they want to use civilians as shields which is obvious to anyone

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:These absurd posts on ratios of death failing to understand the whole point, if Hamas had the capabilities, the death toll would far exceed Palestine. Again Veya is wrong on stats being as 3 civilians have died and maybe a picture showing a wounded Bedouin child receiving treatment from a rocket attack will also show people are being utterly ridiculous on the fatality situation.
Israel as stated has committed some war crimes with their shelling as it can be indiscriminate and on every level Israel warns in advance of its attacks, Hamas does not, Israel is going after legit military targets and where they have got this wrong I have condemned, but those who post crap saying most rockets do not get through, when the reality is they do and each and everyone is indiscriminate, thus a war crimes, shows how people poorly do not even condemn them, but poorly down play them. Most are just inaccurate and how long will it be before they are as the dome can only bring a percentage down. Maybe some will not be happy until Hamas can kill as many civilians as possible, because lets face reality, Hamas uses humans as shields and wants their own people dead for PR and if they had the capability as of Israel, then we would be looking at 20,000 dead Israeli's by now, because as seen they do not even warn, which shows how limited those who argue against Israel are in their arguments The reality is Hamas is allowing as many civilians to die as possible, they have built no shelters and place rockets right within civilian areas, there is no excuse and all the arguments on it being too built up is bullshit, as it is a war crime, end of story and there many areas outside of Gaza city where they can install these rockets, but they do not want to as clearly they want to use civilians as shields which is obvious to anyone

I was thinking the same thing, Didge.  Israel is the heavy because they are good??

Well, if you ask me, I'd rather be good...  No offense to the war casualties, but really!

Sassy wrote:Oh really good, make sure people can't escape by putting them in a cage, which is what Gaza is, surrounded by barbed wire, and then shoot at them from land sea and air and say how clever you are.  Then when the civilian population which are already the most crowded in the word tries to run, but have nowhere to go, bomb them some more until they have even less space to go to.   That's not clever, any ape in the world could do that when they are supplied with huge amount of armaments.   Hamas has some rockets.   Israel has plane, and drone and ships and are armed to the back teeth, and nearly all the people killed on the Palestine side have been civilians and a good third of them children.   Anyone who can defend that is sick in the head.

veya_victaous wrote:@Didge
So the Humans Rights Commission is Anti-Semitic?
THEY are the one Saying ISRAEL is in the wrong
Hamas has asked for a "humanitarian truce" to allow civilians to leave which Israel has said NO it will not let Civilians leave the war zone.
DIDGE YOU HAVE NO LEG TO STAND ON!!!  ISRAEL IS MASSIVELY IN THE WRONG NOW.


And Numbers are not Biased like ALL your responses are as you have repeat-ably made excuses that imply 100's of Palestinians lives are only worth the same as 1 Israeli.

as the Numbers clearly show for Unguided Rockets Hamas is still hitting legitimate targets 94% of the time !!
Israel With advanced guided missiles is hitting legit targets 22% of the time !!!
so you argument about unguided rockets is BULLSHIT or ISRAEL ARE PURPOSELY KILLING CIVILIANS or the IDF is completely incompetent and even with weapons that are 100's of time more accurate the still cannot manage to hit less civilians than Hamas.


REALITY is Numbers and the Numbers are pretty clear. So lets stop using emotions and Bias to try and Justify what Israel is doing. ISRAEL is killing nilly 4 innocent civilians for 1 enemy combatant...  That is unacceptable...  Even before considering the Huge Technological Advantage Israel has. You literally are just making up shit 20,000 in didge's magic world where he would know what would happen if everything was different... why don't we just stick to REALITY where 'EVIL' Hamas have killed less than 40 people and 94% of the time they have been LEGAL LEGIT TARGETS and Poor Defenceless Israel has killed over 600 people only 22% of which where LEGAL LEGIT TARGETS.. this is not some theoretical debate this is REALITY One side has managed to keep civilians deaths at 6% of the other is nearly at 80%.

Hamas IS doing the 'right' thing in trying to negotiate a means for Civilians to Leave...  Regardless of which side you like You cannot Deny that for Humanitarian reasons that SHOULD happen and NOW Israel is preventing it.


AND Human shields is BULLSHIT too Look at the Map there is not ANY SITES left under Palestinian control that are NOT CIVILIAN  WHERE THE FUCK ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO PUT THEM.  Besides the Fact that Palestinian people are NOT making that claim.

The Use of Missiles, Artillery or Air strikes AT ALL against the very limited area Hamas controls is WRONG as there is No way any reasonable person could suggest they is not going to hit some civilians.


LETS face reality SOME PEOPLE feel the Need to Defend WAR CRIMINALS because they have been persecuted in the past Because THERE IS NOT FUCKING WAY anyone could honestly without biased look at what is happen now and Defend their actions.

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:I was thinking the same thing, Didge.  Israel is the heavy because they are good??

Well, if you ask me, I'd rather be good...  No offense to the war casualties, but really!

Which is the point Quill, again if Hamas had the capabilities there would be a hundred more times Israeli's dead, because as seen Israel tries to minimize casualties, they get things wrong, they have made bad mistakes, where as Hamas does not care, every attack is indiscriminate and even worse they can place their rockets away, but if they did they Know Israel would take them easily out, so they commit crimes against Humanity placing them within civilians, knowing full well it will mean the death of Palestinians and Israel has every right to defend herself. What people should be asking is this all boils down to Hamas, they could stop attacking, they do not want to and are making demands for a ceasefire, that shows they care fuck all for the people

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:


Which is the point Quill, again if Hamas had the capabilities there would be a hundred more times Israeli's dead, because as seen Israel tries to minimize casualties, they get things wrong, they have made bad mistakes, where as Hamas does not care, every attack is indiscriminate and even worse they can place their rockets away, but if they did they Know Israel would take them easily out, so they commit crimes against Humanity placing them within civilians, knowing full well it will mean the death of Palestinians and Israel has every right to defend herself. What people should be asking is this all boils down to Hamas, they could stop attacking, they do not want to and are making demands for a ceasefire, that shows they care fuck all for the people

I am convinced that the real game of this war is the PR game being played by Hamas and Iran.  Force Israel to defend themselves, and then toss your women and children in harms way.  Then scream....look, see?  See how horrible?  

We seem to forget that war is hell; and Hamas is causing that kind of hell to occur deliberately.

Didge wrote:Second Hamas is not negotiating anything, it is making demands for a ceasefire, that is showing little concern for the people.

Again if Hamas had the capability, we would be talking about a second Holocaust why you are utterly clueless veya

You down play rockets attacks and also downplay civilians that have died in Israel as if Israel should do nothing, they target military targets, Hamas targets civilians, showing you have no idea on this and as stated you also have claimed to feel sorry for a terrorist group in Hamas, that speaks volumes you back terrorists..

You claim I am biased do not make me laugh you wet leftie, they are factual, and it is people like you that are clueless that makes the matter worse when you down play crimes, I at least condemn crimes, you try to excuse them, which is disgusting

The first target of the renewed policy: the house where Ziyad Awwad and his son, Azzadin Ziad Hassan, lived. The two were indicted for the murder of Baruch Mizrachi and the wounding of the Jewish Israeli’s wife and one of their children on the eve of Passover this year. According to Israeli human rights group B’Tselem, the Awwad house was “currently home to two families: a total of 13 individuals, including eight children.”

Though Awwad petitioned the Israeli High Court of Justice to stop the demolition, Judge Miriam Naor rejected the plea on July 1, determining that the rise in attacks in the West Bank and the discovery of the three teen’s bodies were enough to allow the destruction to resume. Naor also noted that despite the fact that Awwad had not been convicted, Israeli law still allowed the demolitions to occur, it was only the IDF’s policies that had changed.

Since then, the IDF has increased the tempo of its deconstruction projects. The houses of Marwan Qawasmeh and Amer Abu Aysha, two Hamas-linked operatives suspected of killing the three Israeli youth, have also been demolished. Rather than bulldozing the Abu Aysha home, IDF forces blew it up, using explosives to destroy the structure after tossing furniture onto the street and smashing the stairs and sinks with a sledgehammer.

Marwan Qawasmeh’s home was also destroyed at the beginning of the month. Now other members of his family are facing similar fates. Last week, the IDF told Qawasmeh’s father, Said, that he had 48 hours to evacuate his two-story house. “I built this house, and I own it,” the elder Qawasameh lamented to the Washington Post, as his family’s personal effects were strewn in boxes and bags outside the now empty home. “Why do they want to punish me?”

“This is a country that tells the world it wants peace?” Amer’s uncle Mohammed asked Reuters after the destruction of the Abu Aysha house had been completed. “What they’ve done here is absolutely barbaric. Look at the young boys here! Do you think they’ll grow up wanting peace, or full of hate and revenge from what they see?” As many as twenty people had been living in the house before its destruction.

Didge wrote:This is why you are clueless, I already condemn Israel for certain attacks that are war crimes, you then go on about Amnesty international, saying if they are wrong, are you an idiot? As how am I going against them when I agree some of the attacks are war crimes by Israel? This is why you are clueless on this topic because you keep lying, you keep claiming something which is untrue, where I have condemned israel, you though defend Hamas and deny their war crimes 
Not once have I tried to justify the death toll, that is another lie, I have stated Israel goes after military targets where they also get this wrong, that is not justifying people dying, I am explaining how people are dying, of which hamas plays a major part in. You have not once condemned Hamas and make light humour of the death rations, I find that appalling, tell that to the Israeli families who have lost loved ones and tell them, they are not important
   
I have posted facts for you, they place weapons within civilian areas, that is a war crime, I condemn Israel who have committed some war crimes, you down play Hamas with their war crimes and make poor excuses for them. Everything I posted is a fact, the UN has condemned Hamas for indiscriminate attacks, fact, they have condemned hamas for placing rockets within civilian areas, fact, these are war crimes, fact they have condemned Israel for war crimes, fact, I have condemned Israel, fact, you have tried to down play war crimes, fact. You ignore the main point that is they had the capability Hamas would try to kill as many Israeli's as possible, fact. 


So again, is Hamas committing war crimes?

Do you condemn these war crimes?

Night
So again you failed to answer my points and questions

gerber wrote:" "One child has been killed in Gaza every hour for the past two days,"


www.cbsnews.com/.../palestinian-child-killed-every-2-hours-in-gaza-un-.



Why ?


What have the children done to Israel ?

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Sincerely hope Golda Meir is burning in hell.

What a vile bitch she truly was.

gerber wrote:" "One child has been killed in Gaza every hour for the past two days,"


www.cbsnews.com/.../palestinian-child-killed-every-2-hours-in-gaza-un-.

Why ?

What have the children done to Israel ?