Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
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Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Iraqi Christians leave city en masse after Islamist militants threatened to
kill them unless they converted to Islam or paid a 'protection tax'
Christians were fleeing Iraq's jihadist-held city of Mosul en masse on Friday
after mosques relayed an ultimatum giving them a few hours to leave, the
country's Chaldean patriarch and witnesses said.
Iraq is home to one of the world's most ancient Christian communities, but
their numbers have plummeted as attacks against them mounted after the
US-led invasion in 2003, which unleashed a wave of sectarian violence.
"Christian families are on their way to Dohuk and Arbil," in the
neighbouring autonomous region of Kurdistan, Patriarch Louis Sako told AFP. "For
the first time in the history of Iraq, Mosul is now empty of Christians."
Before 2003 the city's Christians numbered some 60,000 people, but that
dropped to some 35,000 by June this year, Sako said.
Another 10,000 fled Mosul after Sunni Islamist militants took control in a
sweeping offensive led by Islamic State (IS) insurgents that began on June
9, and has since spread to other parts of northern and western Iraq.
A statement dated from last week and purportedly issued by IS warned Mosul's
Christians they should convert, pay a special tax, leave or face death.
The deadline to leave the city is noon on Saturday, according to the
statement.
On Monday two nuns and three orphans were released after being held for 17
days in Mosul, Sako said, a development he described as "a glimmer of
hope, and a breakthrough".
However, his optimism was to prove shortlived.
"We were shocked by the distribution of a statement by the Islamic State
calling on Christians to convert to Islam, or to pay unspecified tribute, or
to leave their city and their homes taking only their clothes and no
luggage, and that their homes would then belong to the Islamic State,"
Sako said.
Witnesses said messages telling Christians to leave Mosul on Saturday were
blared through loudspeakers from the city's mosques Friday.
The patriarch, who is one of the most senior Christian clerics in Iraq, and
residents contacted by AFP said Islamic State militants had in recent days
been tagging Christian houses with the letter N for "Nassarah",
the term by which the Koran refers to Christians.
The statement, which was seen by AFP, said "there will be nothing for
them but the sword" if Christians reject those conditions.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10977698/Christians-flee-Iraqs-Mosul-after-Islamists-tell-them-convert-pay-or-die.html
Muslims doing what Muslims do, as instructed by their guide book..... the religion of peace and tolerance....
Title edited by Ben to include the word "militants"
kill them unless they converted to Islam or paid a 'protection tax'
Christians were fleeing Iraq's jihadist-held city of Mosul en masse on Friday
after mosques relayed an ultimatum giving them a few hours to leave, the
country's Chaldean patriarch and witnesses said.
Iraq is home to one of the world's most ancient Christian communities, but
their numbers have plummeted as attacks against them mounted after the
US-led invasion in 2003, which unleashed a wave of sectarian violence.
"Christian families are on their way to Dohuk and Arbil," in the
neighbouring autonomous region of Kurdistan, Patriarch Louis Sako told AFP. "For
the first time in the history of Iraq, Mosul is now empty of Christians."
Before 2003 the city's Christians numbered some 60,000 people, but that
dropped to some 35,000 by June this year, Sako said.
Another 10,000 fled Mosul after Sunni Islamist militants took control in a
sweeping offensive led by Islamic State (IS) insurgents that began on June
9, and has since spread to other parts of northern and western Iraq.
A statement dated from last week and purportedly issued by IS warned Mosul's
Christians they should convert, pay a special tax, leave or face death.
The deadline to leave the city is noon on Saturday, according to the
statement.
On Monday two nuns and three orphans were released after being held for 17
days in Mosul, Sako said, a development he described as "a glimmer of
hope, and a breakthrough".
However, his optimism was to prove shortlived.
"We were shocked by the distribution of a statement by the Islamic State
calling on Christians to convert to Islam, or to pay unspecified tribute, or
to leave their city and their homes taking only their clothes and no
luggage, and that their homes would then belong to the Islamic State,"
Sako said.
Witnesses said messages telling Christians to leave Mosul on Saturday were
blared through loudspeakers from the city's mosques Friday.
The patriarch, who is one of the most senior Christian clerics in Iraq, and
residents contacted by AFP said Islamic State militants had in recent days
been tagging Christian houses with the letter N for "Nassarah",
the term by which the Koran refers to Christians.
The statement, which was seen by AFP, said "there will be nothing for
them but the sword" if Christians reject those conditions.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10977698/Christians-flee-Iraqs-Mosul-after-Islamists-tell-them-convert-pay-or-die.html
Muslims doing what Muslims do, as instructed by their guide book..... the religion of peace and tolerance....
Title edited by Ben to include the word "militants"
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Looks like smelly was right all along...!
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Looks like you know nothing about what the Q'ran actually says and why Muslim leaders have come out in opposition to this group.
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Tommy Monk wrote:Looks like smelly was right all along...!
No smelly was not right, there are countless Muslims countries that do not threaten people with death if they do not convert and it is such comments like yours which are as poor as those going on about Israel.
Isis are scum and the many Muslim victims of them are in fear of them, so stop making this an extremism far right load of bull.
Yes people need to stand up and be outraged at this and do far more, but your points on Muslims being Muslims is just daft, when hundreds of Millions of Muslims do not act like this or even support such groups
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Didge wrote:Tommy Monk wrote:Looks like smelly was right all along...!
No smelly was not right, there are countless Muslims countries that do not threaten people with death if they do not convert and it is such comments like yours which are as poor as those going on about Israel.
Isis are scum and the many Muslim victims of them are in fear of them, so stop making this an extremism far right load of bull.
Yes people need to stand up and be outraged at this and do far more, but your points on Muslims being Muslims is just daft, when hundreds of Millions of Muslims do not act like this or even support such groups
Could we have some examples Didge?
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
BigAndy9 wrote:Didge wrote:
No smelly was not right, there are countless Muslims countries that do not threaten people with death if they do not convert and it is such comments like yours which are as poor as those going on about Israel.
Isis are scum and the many Muslim victims of them are in fear of them, so stop making this an extremism far right load of bull.
Yes people need to stand up and be outraged at this and do far more, but your points on Muslims being Muslims is just daft, when hundreds of Millions of Muslims do not act like this or even support such groups
Could we have some examples Didge?
Sure, show me how many out of the 56+ Muslim countries where it is law that people who are not Muslims have to pay the Jiyza or convert or face execution?
I think you will find it is only under Isis
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
But many others do dodge, and are happy with this even though they may say otherwise.....
And where do they get this 'convert, pay or die' idea from...???
Straight out of the Koran!!!
And where do they get this 'convert, pay or die' idea from...???
Straight out of the Koran!!!
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#Countries
Countries[edit]
See also: Use of capital punishment by nation
Countries with death penalty for the crime of apostasy.
In 2011, 20 countries across the globe prohibited its citizens from apostasy; in these countries, it is a criminal offense to abandon one's faith to become atheist, or convert to another religion.[7][8] All 20 of these countries were majority Islamic nations, of which 11 were in the Middle East. No country in the Americas or Europe has any law forbidding apostasy and restricting the freedom to convert to any religion. Furthermore, across the globe, no country with Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, agnostic or atheist majority had any criminal or civil laws forbidding or encouraging apostasy, or had laws restricting an individual's right to convert from one religion to another.[9][10][11][12]
The following 21 nations treat apostasy under their criminal laws:
Afghanistan – illegal (death penalty, although the U.S. and other coalition members have put pressure that has prevented recent executions)[13][14]
Comoros[7]
Egypt – illegal (3 years' imprisonment)[15]
Iran – illegal (death penalty)[15][16][17]
Iraq[7]
Jordan – possibly illegal (fine, jail, child custody loss, marriage annulment) although officials claim otherwise, convictions are recorded for apostasy[18][19][20]
Kuwait[7]
Malaysia – illegal in five of 13 states (fine, imprisonment, and flogging)[21][22]
Maldives[7]
Mauritania – illegal (death penalty if still apostate after 3 days)[23]
Morocco – illegal to proselytise conversion (15 years' imprisonment)[24] Only country not listed by Pew.[7]
Nigeria[7]
Oman – legal in criminal code, but according to the family code, a father can lose custody of his child[citation needed]
Pakistan – illegal (death penalty[15] since 2007)
Qatar – illegal (death penalty)[25]
Saudi Arabia – illegal (death penalty, although there have been no recently reported executions)[15][26]
Somalia – illegal (death penalty)[27]
Sudan – illegal (death penalty)[28]
Syria[7]
United Arab Emirates – illegal (3 years' imprisonment, flogging)[29]
Yemen – illegal (death penalty)[25]
A few Islamic majority nations, not in the above list, prosecute apostasy even though they do not have apostasy laws, and only have blasphemy laws. In these nations, there is no general agreement or legal code to define "blasphemy". The lack of definition and legal vagueness has been used to include apostasy as a form of blasphemy. For example, in Indonesia, the phrase used in the Blasphemy Law is penyalahgunaan dan/atau penodaan agama, meaning "to misuse or disgrace a religion". Persons accused of blasphemy have included murtad (apostate), kafir (non-Muslim/unbeliever), aliran sesat (deviant group), sesat (deviant), or aliran kepercayaan (mystical believers). Indonesia has invoked blasphemy laws to address crimes of riddah (apostasy); zandaqah (heresy); nifaq (hypocrisy); and kufr (unbelief). Islamic activists have demanded, and state prosecutors have proposed, prison sentences to death as punishment for such crimes
Countries[edit]
See also: Use of capital punishment by nation
Countries with death penalty for the crime of apostasy.
In 2011, 20 countries across the globe prohibited its citizens from apostasy; in these countries, it is a criminal offense to abandon one's faith to become atheist, or convert to another religion.[7][8] All 20 of these countries were majority Islamic nations, of which 11 were in the Middle East. No country in the Americas or Europe has any law forbidding apostasy and restricting the freedom to convert to any religion. Furthermore, across the globe, no country with Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, agnostic or atheist majority had any criminal or civil laws forbidding or encouraging apostasy, or had laws restricting an individual's right to convert from one religion to another.[9][10][11][12]
The following 21 nations treat apostasy under their criminal laws:
Afghanistan – illegal (death penalty, although the U.S. and other coalition members have put pressure that has prevented recent executions)[13][14]
Comoros[7]
Egypt – illegal (3 years' imprisonment)[15]
Iran – illegal (death penalty)[15][16][17]
Iraq[7]
Jordan – possibly illegal (fine, jail, child custody loss, marriage annulment) although officials claim otherwise, convictions are recorded for apostasy[18][19][20]
Kuwait[7]
Malaysia – illegal in five of 13 states (fine, imprisonment, and flogging)[21][22]
Maldives[7]
Mauritania – illegal (death penalty if still apostate after 3 days)[23]
Morocco – illegal to proselytise conversion (15 years' imprisonment)[24] Only country not listed by Pew.[7]
Nigeria[7]
Oman – legal in criminal code, but according to the family code, a father can lose custody of his child[citation needed]
Pakistan – illegal (death penalty[15] since 2007)
Qatar – illegal (death penalty)[25]
Saudi Arabia – illegal (death penalty, although there have been no recently reported executions)[15][26]
Somalia – illegal (death penalty)[27]
Sudan – illegal (death penalty)[28]
Syria[7]
United Arab Emirates – illegal (3 years' imprisonment, flogging)[29]
Yemen – illegal (death penalty)[25]
A few Islamic majority nations, not in the above list, prosecute apostasy even though they do not have apostasy laws, and only have blasphemy laws. In these nations, there is no general agreement or legal code to define "blasphemy". The lack of definition and legal vagueness has been used to include apostasy as a form of blasphemy. For example, in Indonesia, the phrase used in the Blasphemy Law is penyalahgunaan dan/atau penodaan agama, meaning "to misuse or disgrace a religion". Persons accused of blasphemy have included murtad (apostate), kafir (non-Muslim/unbeliever), aliran sesat (deviant group), sesat (deviant), or aliran kepercayaan (mystical believers). Indonesia has invoked blasphemy laws to address crimes of riddah (apostasy); zandaqah (heresy); nifaq (hypocrisy); and kufr (unbelief). Islamic activists have demanded, and state prosecutors have proposed, prison sentences to death as punishment for such crimes
Last edited by BigAndy9 on Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
Guest- Guest
Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Tommy Monk wrote:But many others do dodge, and are happy with this even though they may say otherwise.....
And where do they get this 'convert, pay or die' idea from...???
Straight out of the Koran!!!
No not many others do, there is 1.5 billion Muslims, so why not show me how many do?
Sorry Isis are scum, but do not use them as a political argument to attack many Muslims who are not like them and are suffering under them as well as Christians, at least Christians had a choice, many Muslims within their sphere did not have a choice and were shot out of hand!
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
wow that's a huge list Andy thanks for posting that .
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:wow that's a huge list Andy thanks for posting that .
You're welcome Miss Perfect.
And you too are welcome, Didge.
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
BigAndy9 wrote:LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:wow that's a huge list Andy thanks for posting that .
You're welcome Miss Perfect.
And you too are welcome, Didge.
Well I am still waiting Andy, that is something altogether different, than people being forced to convert or pay the Jiyza, you are using a different argument
try again
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
And of course, now England has been ravaged by a Muslim invasion, we have it here too:
When Sofia Allam left the Muslim faith for Christianity, the response from her family was one of persecution and threats. Alasdair Palmer explores the dangers facing Islam's apostates
Sofia Allam simply could not believe it. Her kind, loving father was sitting in front of her threatening to kill her. He said she had brought shame and humiliation on him, that she was now "worse than the muck on their shoes" and she deserved to die.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1571970/Muslim-apostates-threatened-over-Christianity.html
When Sofia Allam left the Muslim faith for Christianity, the response from her family was one of persecution and threats. Alasdair Palmer explores the dangers facing Islam's apostates
Sofia Allam simply could not believe it. Her kind, loving father was sitting in front of her threatening to kill her. He said she had brought shame and humiliation on him, that she was now "worse than the muck on their shoes" and she deserved to die.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1571970/Muslim-apostates-threatened-over-Christianity.html
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
BigAndy9 wrote:And of course, now England has been ravaged by a Muslim invasion, we have it here too:
When Sofia Allam left the Muslim faith for Christianity, the response from her family was one of persecution and threats. Alasdair Palmer explores the dangers facing Islam's apostates
Sofia Allam simply could not believe it. Her kind, loving father was sitting in front of her threatening to kill her. He said she had brought shame and humiliation on him, that she was now "worse than the muck on their shoes" and she deserved to die.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1571970/Muslim-apostates-threatened-over-Christianity.html
That again is apostasy, I have asked you to show me where in law non-Muslims are forced to either, pay the Jiyza, convert or face execution.
Try again
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Tommy Monk wrote:But many others do dodge, and are happy with this even though they may say otherwise.....
And where do they get this 'convert, pay or die' idea from...???
Straight out of the Koran!!!
Again how many out of the 1.5 billion Muslims?
Guest- Guest
Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
BigAndy9 wrote:And of course, now England has been ravaged by a Muslim invasion, we have it here too:
When Sofia Allam left the Muslim faith for Christianity, the response from her family was one of persecution and threats. Alasdair Palmer explores the dangers facing Islam's apostates
Sofia Allam simply could not believe it. Her kind, loving father was sitting in front of her threatening to kill her. He said she had brought shame and humiliation on him, that she was now "worse than the muck on their shoes" and she deserved to die.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1571970/Muslim-apostates-threatened-over-Christianity.html
such a barbaric cult i hope more brave Christians report their families for their threats against them for leaving islam .
The truth is that her parents are following their book and now disown her .
She is better off out of that evil religion and will at least find love and compassion in the christian faith .
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:BigAndy9 wrote:And of course, now England has been ravaged by a Muslim invasion, we have it here too:
When Sofia Allam left the Muslim faith for Christianity, the response from her family was one of persecution and threats. Alasdair Palmer explores the dangers facing Islam's apostates
Sofia Allam simply could not believe it. Her kind, loving father was sitting in front of her threatening to kill her. He said she had brought shame and humiliation on him, that she was now "worse than the muck on their shoes" and she deserved to die.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1571970/Muslim-apostates-threatened-over-Christianity.html
such a barbaric cult i hope more brave Christians report their families for their threats against them for leaving islam .
The truth is that her parents are following their book and now disown her .
She is better off out of that evil religion and will at least find love and compassion in the christian faith .
Yes apostasy is very wrong and found in many religions including your own, centuries of history and the bible prove this and shows where there is a literal view of a religious books there is major problems, only because the west is not ruled anymore by religion people are not persecuted anymore for leaving their faith, but they certainly were before.
All religions are cults, written by sexist men
Guest- Guest
Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:BigAndy9 wrote:And of course, now England has been ravaged by a Muslim invasion, we have it here too:
When Sofia Allam left the Muslim faith for Christianity, the response from her family was one of persecution and threats. Alasdair Palmer explores the dangers facing Islam's apostates
Sofia Allam simply could not believe it. Her kind, loving father was sitting in front of her threatening to kill her. He said she had brought shame and humiliation on him, that she was now "worse than the muck on their shoes" and she deserved to die.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1571970/Muslim-apostates-threatened-over-Christianity.html
such a barbaric cult i hope more brave Christians report their families for their threats against them for leaving islam .
The truth is that her parents are following their book and now disown her .
She is better off out of that evil religion and will at least find love and compassion in the christian faith .
I completely agree, Miss Perfect.
Guest- Guest
Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
BigAndy9 wrote:LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:
such a barbaric cult i hope more brave Christians report their families for their threats against them for leaving islam .
The truth is that her parents are following their book and now disown her .
She is better off out of that evil religion and will at least find love and compassion in the christian faith .
I completely agree, Miss Perfect.
Still waiting Andy???
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Well it's happening in Egypt now....
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2013/September/Egypt-Christians-Killed-for-Not-Paying-Jizya-Tax/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/10/egypts-Muslim-brotherhood-convert-islam-or-pay-jiz/
And in Libya, Syria, Iraq.....
http://www.christianpost.com/news/Muslim-brotherhood-imposes-jizya-fine-on-coptic-christians-104276/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10666257/Militant-Islamist-group-in-Syria-orders-Christians-to-pay-protection-tax.html
And in Tunisia....
http://araborthodoxy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/further-vandalism-of-orthodox-church-in.html
And I'll bet in in a few other places too...
So much for your attempt at the old 'it's only a few' bullshit.....
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2013/September/Egypt-Christians-Killed-for-Not-Paying-Jizya-Tax/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/10/egypts-Muslim-brotherhood-convert-islam-or-pay-jiz/
And in Libya, Syria, Iraq.....
http://www.christianpost.com/news/Muslim-brotherhood-imposes-jizya-fine-on-coptic-christians-104276/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10666257/Militant-Islamist-group-in-Syria-orders-Christians-to-pay-protection-tax.html
And in Tunisia....
http://araborthodoxy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/further-vandalism-of-orthodox-church-in.html
And I'll bet in in a few other places too...
So much for your attempt at the old 'it's only a few' bullshit.....
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
EVIL BASTARDS AREN'T THEY
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Tommy Monk wrote:Well it's happening in Egypt now....
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2013/September/Egypt-Christians-Killed-for-Not-Paying-Jizya-Tax/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/10/egypts-Muslim-brotherhood-convert-islam-or-pay-jiz/
And in Libya, Syria, Iraq.....
http://www.christianpost.com/news/Muslim-brotherhood-imposes-jizya-fine-on-coptic-christians-104276/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10666257/Militant-Islamist-group-in-Syria-orders-Christians-to-pay-protection-tax.html
And in Tunisia....
http://araborthodoxy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/further-vandalism-of-orthodox-church-in.html
And I'll bet in in a few other places too...
So much for your attempt at the old 'it's only a few' bullshit.....
So again how many is that out of 1.5 billion?
By that count, that must be less than 500 if not even less, where you again used Isis, which we already know about and you used extremists which we know about.
Try again and actually give me some evidence on numbers.
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
That is very much only a few, you have failed to provide one single Muslim Government outside Isis and shows why people like you Matti are obsessed with hating innocent Muslims based off what some extremists do. It shows you are no better than they are in their hate and objective in promoting hate.
I applaud you in condemning those who do and join you in that, but trying to present a lame argument as you are now will be utterly shown to be clueless on your part by me
I applaud you in condemning those who do and join you in that, but trying to present a lame argument as you are now will be utterly shown to be clueless on your part by me
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Still trying the 'it's only a few' I see dodge...!?
Fact is it is happening in multiple Muslim countries against religious minorities, mainly Christians.
And where do these Muslims get their idea from that this is right....???
Straight from their guide book!!!!
Indisputable!!!
Convert, pay or die.
Fact is it is happening in multiple Muslim countries against religious minorities, mainly Christians.
And where do these Muslims get their idea from that this is right....???
Straight from their guide book!!!!
Indisputable!!!
Convert, pay or die.
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Tommy Monk wrote:Still trying the 'it's only a few' I see dodge...!?
Fact is it is happening in multiple Muslim countries against religious minorities, mainly Christians.
And where do these Muslims get their idea from that this is right....???
Straight from their guide book!!!!
Indisputable!!!
Convert, pay or die.
I m not denying it happens and it happens because of extremists, of which it is very wrong but again you are equating this to many which as seen by your evidence has proven the opposite.
So again how many out of 1.5 billion twatti?
You see if you cannot be nice in calling people by their names I shall descend to your hateful language, as it seems this is the only way to communicate with someone of hate
So try again, how many out of 1.5 billion Twatti?
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
And I don't hate innocent anybody dodge.
What we are increasingly seeing is that many Muslims are not that innocent at all And they are acting in a way that is proclaimed in their guide book.
So it must follow that all followers of the same religion and guide book are also capable of acting in the same way As the others.
What we are increasingly seeing is that many Muslims are not that innocent at all And they are acting in a way that is proclaimed in their guide book.
So it must follow that all followers of the same religion and guide book are also capable of acting in the same way As the others.
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Tommy Monk wrote:And I don't hate innocent anybody dodge.
What we are increasingly seeing is that many Muslims are not that innocent at all And they are acting in a way that is proclaimed in their guide book.
So it must follow that all followers of the same religion and guide book are also capable of acting in the same way As the others.
i know that post isn't to me but i totally agree with what you have said Tommy
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Tommy Monk wrote:And I don't hate innocent anybody dodge.
What we are increasingly seeing is that many Muslims are not that innocent at all And they are acting in a way that is proclaimed in their guide book.
So it must follow that all followers of the same religion and guide book are also capable of acting in the same way As the others.
Yes you do Twatti, you look to incite anger and hate against a religious group based off what some do in that religious group, that just sows the seed of more hate between people and fails to deal with the problem, especially when of these extremists that target Christians, many more Muslims are victims of them and their actions. You see you use a daft association fallacy, because if it was down to the book even more so when many Muslims are practicing Muslims, why is it that many Muslims do not try to force conversion based on a view point that if they do not, they must pay the Jiyza, or face execution? You make this approach which does not solve a problem but again sows the seed of yet further hate
Now I have asked you countless times, give me some numbers and examples of Governments endorsing this practice.
Try again
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Those Muslims are deemed not Islamic enough.
And it was soon after the govts are overthrown that the islamists start with their religious imposition onto others.
It is only the tough line govts that stop these savages carrying out their religious barbarism.
You still have not denied they are doing as their guide book tells them I see....
Interesting....
And it was soon after the govts are overthrown that the islamists start with their religious imposition onto others.
It is only the tough line govts that stop these savages carrying out their religious barbarism.
You still have not denied they are doing as their guide book tells them I see....
Interesting....
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Tommy Monk wrote:Those Muslims are deemed not Islamic enough.
And it was soon after the govts are overthrown that the islamists start with their religious imposition onto others.
It is only the tough line govts that stop these savages carrying out their religious barbarism.
You still have not denied they are doing as their guide book tells them I see....
Interesting....
No where in the Quran does it say for them to kill people if they are non-Muslims where they do not convert, it says fight people who do not pay their taxes, but nothing on conversions or to flee if they do not, so you may want to read the Quran before you make such poor errors. This is obvious when the Tax is an exemption from military duty and is exempt for women, disabled, old people and children. This ta is less than what Muslims pay themselves and was about in the beginnings about protection in very turbulent times, which had seen conflict between two empires the Byzantine and Sassanian Empire
A clue on this may have been how and why I asked how many when apart from Isis, no Government sanctions any such law
So which brings me back to how many, which you have still failed to answer, so how many out of 1.5 billion?
Any religion is a problem where of those who take the literal view to extreme interpretation.
Right a really late and also bored asking you to answer something you clearly know nothing about.
Nems, thanks, all the best hun.
xx
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
So what is this then dodge.....???
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (Qur’an 9:29).
Muhammad said: “Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them…. If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them. (Sahih Muslim 4294.)
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (Qur’an 9:29).
Muhammad said: “Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them…. If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them. (Sahih Muslim 4294.)
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Tommy Monk wrote:So what is this then dodge.....???
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (Qur’an 9:29).
Muhammad said: “Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them…. If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them. (Sahih Muslim 4294.)
Well done, you just proved my point, no where does it state as Isis do or you claim, it states fight.
It does not state to threaten people with death and execution if they do not pay the Jiyza, showing you are clueless because you have not read the Quran.
Isis demand people either convert of pay the jiyza or face death which as seen is why you know little.
Are you saying fight means execution now?
Or does it mean take action on people who refuse to pay their ta, that being able bodied men? There is words for execution in the Quran and it is not used here on this verse and shows you are have not read the book
So again how many out of the 1.5 billion Muslims?
How many more time will I ask
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Night all, will answer more tomorrow and hope finally Twati has answered my question.
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Well if you read the op you will see that this is what is happening and if you read the other links I provided you will see this is happening in multiple Muslim countries.
It is obvious to everyone that 'fight them' does not mean a couple of rounds of the queensbury rules and a handshake afterwards.......
It is obvious to everyone that 'fight them' does not mean a couple of rounds of the queensbury rules and a handshake afterwards.......
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
There is a Roman Catholic Cathedral in Tunis, I went into it with a Muslim friend. You don't have the first idea.
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Tommy Monk wrote:Well it's happening in Egypt now....
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2013/September/Egypt-Christians-Killed-for-Not-Paying-Jizya-Tax/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/10/egypts-Muslim-brotherhood-convert-islam-or-pay-jiz/
And in Libya, Syria, Iraq.....
http://www.christianpost.com/news/Muslim-brotherhood-imposes-jizya-fine-on-coptic-christians-104276/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10666257/Militant-Islamist-group-in-Syria-orders-Christians-to-pay-protection-tax.html
And in Tunisia....
http://araborthodoxy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/further-vandalism-of-orthodox-church-in.html
And I'll bet in in a few other places too...
So much for your attempt at the old 'it's only a few' bullshit.....
Just for Sassy....
This is happening now.
After the fall of strong govts who protected religious minorities.
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Tommy Monk wrote:Well if you read the op you will see that this is what is happening and if you read the other links I provided you will see this is happening in multiple Muslim countries.
It is obvious to everyone that 'fight them' does not mean a couple of rounds of the queensbury rules and a handshake afterwards.......
Yes I already posted this OP before you did and know we have problems we extremists in the world, which Isis are appalling, though this does not excuse you from answering my question, which you have failed to do consistantly
Fight them is what it means, if it meant execute, it would say so as it does in other passages, sadly you would not know, mainly as you are a fuckwit an clueless having never read it.
So are you telling me fight means execute now>?
So out of 1.5 billion Muslims, how many are we talking about?
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Dodge, the message is clear.
They are doing as they are instructed by their guide book, as written.
They demand that non Muslims either;
a) convert
b) pay protection money (jizya)
Or
c) suffer physical harm through violent attack
When they are happy to kill fellow Muslims for disagreeing and/or not being Islamic enough and inflict other barbaric punishments for other perceived violations of their way of doing things etc, do you really honestly believe for a moment that 'fight them' means anything other than to the death...???
The threat of death is already evident in their demands and people have already been killed for failing/refusing to comply with the demands.
As I said before, nobody in their right mind thinks that 'fight them' means a couple of rounds of queensbury rules and a handshake afterwards.....
It is a threat of extreme violence and ultimately death.
Straight out of their guide book....
They are doing as they are instructed by their guide book, as written.
They demand that non Muslims either;
a) convert
b) pay protection money (jizya)
Or
c) suffer physical harm through violent attack
When they are happy to kill fellow Muslims for disagreeing and/or not being Islamic enough and inflict other barbaric punishments for other perceived violations of their way of doing things etc, do you really honestly believe for a moment that 'fight them' means anything other than to the death...???
The threat of death is already evident in their demands and people have already been killed for failing/refusing to comply with the demands.
As I said before, nobody in their right mind thinks that 'fight them' means a couple of rounds of queensbury rules and a handshake afterwards.....
It is a threat of extreme violence and ultimately death.
Straight out of their guide book....
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Tommy Monk wrote:Dodge, the message is clear.
They are doing as they are instructed by their guide book, as written.
They demand that non Muslims either;
a) convert
b) pay protection money (jizya)
Or
c) suffer physical harm through violent attack
When they are happy to kill fellow Muslims for disagreeing and/or not being Islamic enough and inflict other barbaric punishments for other perceived violations of their way of doing things etc, do you really honestly believe for a moment that 'fight them' means anything other than to the death...???
The threat of death is already evident in their demands and people have already been killed for failing/refusing to comply with the demands.
As I said before, nobody in their right mind thinks that 'fight them' means a couple of rounds of queensbury rules and a handshake afterwards.....
It is a threat of extreme violence and ultimately death.
Straight out of their guide book....
Well as you failed to show me anything out of the Quran that backs your view, thus you are wrong and it shows Isis like you take a poor interpretation, because as seen hardly any Muslims do this, which is why you have failed to answer my question countless times. You know bugger all here and are just avoiding my question Twatti
Sorry as seen you know fuck all about the Quran and not going to go around in circles, as I for that enough with smelly, where at least he knows some things about Islam, where as you know fuck all, now after the 8th time asking, show me how many out of the 1.5 billion Muslims do this, which will help answer your poor claim?
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Re: Christians flee Iraq's Mosul after Islamist militants tell them: convert, pay or die
Already posted the religious texts.Tommy Monk wrote:So what is this then dodge.....???
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (Qur’an 9:29).
Muhammad said: “Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them…. If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them. (Sahih Muslim 4294.)
And evidence that Muslims are enforcing this.
'It's only a few' is a weak cop out.....
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