Pistorius was not mentally ill when he shot girlfriend, experts conclude

by Guest Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:59 am

Mental health experts conclude that runner capable of understanding wrongfulness of killing Reeva Steenkamp

A panel of mental health experts has concluded that Oscar Pistorius was not suffering from a mental illness when he killed girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in his home last year, the chief prosecutor at the athlete's murder trial said.

Pistorius's trial resumed on Monday after a break of one month during which a psychologist and three psychiatrists also assessed whether the double-amputee runner was capable of understanding the wrongfulness of his act when he shot Steenkamp through a closed toilet door.

The panel's reports were submitted to Judge Thokozile Masipa and prosecutor Gerrie Nel referred to key parts of the conclusions, noting that the experts believed Pistorius was "capable of appreciating the wrongfulness of his act" when he killed Steenkamp.

The evaluation came after a psychiatrist, Dr Merryll Vorster, testified for the defence that Pistorius, who has said he feels vulnerable because of his disability and long-held worry about crime, had an anxiety disorder that could have contributed to the killing in the early hours of 14 February 2013. He testified that he opened fire after mistakenly thinking there was a dangerous intruder in the toilet.

Nel has alleged that Pistorius killed Steenkamp after a Valentine's Day argument, and has portrayed the Olympic athlete as a hothead with a love of guns and an inflated sense of entitlement. But he requested an independent inquiry into Pistorius's state of mind, based on concern the defence would argue Pistorius was not guilty because of mental illness.

Pistorius faces 25 years to life in prison if found guilty of premeditated murder, and could also face years in prison if convicted of murder without premeditation or negligent killing. He is free on bail.

Pistorius was evaluated as an outpatient at Weskoppies psychiatric hospital in Pretoria, the South African capital. He has been staying at his uncle's home.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/30/oscar-pistorius-mental-illness-reeva-steenkamp

Now they will have to reach a verdict.

by eddie Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:14 pm

I'm pretty sure he knew exactly what he was doing, but I think he did it in no moment of madness, angry and possibly drug -fuelled?

by Guest Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:16 pm

Who knows Eddie, but he certainly had a short fuse and used guns in a very unsafe manner, as shown by other instances when he lost his temper and fired at things.

by stardesk Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:16 pm

The thing that puzzles me is, if she wasn't there in the bedroom, or in bed, surely he would have thought 'where is she, it's probably her in the bathroom.' In the time it took to get the gun and load it he could have sussed out where she was.

by Original Quill Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:33 pm

The panel of experts say he was perfectly lucid and knew what he was doing.

What is curious is the way this came up. Neither the prosecution nor the defense claimed insanity. But the defense was constantly raising the fact that Oscar was mentally upset, so the prosecution finally asked for the mental examination in order to settle the question.

Now the prosecution has an actual determination that Oscar was not mentally impaired in any way. This kind of claim usually comes up as a defense, but here it was raised by the prosecution. A kind of put up or shut up tactic.

by Original Quill Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:36 pm

stardesk wrote:The thing that puzzles me is, if she wasn't there in the bedroom, or in bed, surely he would have thought 'where is she, it's probably her in the bathroom.' In the time it took to get the gun and load it he could have sussed out where she was.

Further on that thought, he would have thought to look for her...whether in the bathroom or elsewhere. If indeed there was a burglar Oscar's first instinct would have been to find Re'eva before shooting away.

by stardesk Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:29 pm

Quite right, Quill. Surely that's what any caring person would do. You'd think 'is she alright, or in any danger?' You don't go blasting away without checking first. If it were me, I'd have slung the bathroom door open, did a quick appraisal, then fired if it was a burglar.

by Irn Bru Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:57 pm

Original Quill wrote:The panel of experts say he was perfectly lucid and knew what he was doing.

What is curious is the way this came up. Neither the prosecution nor the defense claimed insanity. But the defense was constantly raising the fact that Oscar was mentally upset, so the prosecution finally asked for the mental examination in order to settle the question.

Now the prosecution has an actual determination that Oscar was not mentally impaired in any way. This kind of claim usually comes up as a defense, but here it was raised by the prosecution. A kind of put up or shut up tactic.

Quill, is this a positive or a negative for Oscar?

by Ben Reilly Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:10 pm

stardesk wrote:Quite right, Quill. Surely that's what any caring person would do. You'd think 'is she alright, or in any danger?' You don't go blasting away without checking first. If it were me, I'd have slung the bathroom door open, did a quick appraisal, then fired if it was a burglar.

Or grabbed the gun, approached the bathroom door and yelled, "Who's in there, I'm armed!"

by Guest Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:18 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
stardesk wrote:Quite right, Quill. Surely that's what any caring person would do. You'd think 'is she alright, or in any danger?' You don't go blasting away without checking first. If it were me, I'd have slung the bathroom door open, did a quick appraisal, then fired if it was a burglar.

Or grabbed the gun, approached the bathroom door and yelled, "Who's in there, I'm armed!"

Exactly, or 'climb back out the window or I'll shoot'!

by Original Quill Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:21 am

Irn Bru wrote:
Original Quill wrote:The panel of experts say he was perfectly lucid and knew what he was doing.

What is curious is the way this came up. Neither the prosecution nor the defense claimed insanity. But the defense was constantly raising the fact that Oscar was mentally upset, so the prosecution finally asked for the mental examination in order to settle the question.

Now the prosecution has an actual determination that Oscar was not mentally impaired in any way. This kind of claim usually comes up as a defense, but here it was raised by the prosecution. A kind of put up or shut up tactic.

Quill, is this a positive or a negative for Oscar?

Well, to the extent that it precludes the suggestion by the defense that Oscar was mentally impaired, this is a negative for him. He (or his team) had been getting away with the suggestion that, while not actually insane, he should receive sympathy because his physical impairments left him feeling 'vulnerable'. This finding returns the judge to the logical point of: no, he's not actually insane--which means he was in his right mind when he attacked and killed her. Law is supposed to assume a rational person...and that doesn't include shades of sympathy and mum's special understanding.

Of course, the actual theory of the prosecution is 'cold-blooded' murder. The prosecution is just returning the judge to the presumption of a rational person. Then, the prosecution argues that judged as a rational person, this was not fear or confusion, but a calculated, angry decision to murder Re'vea.

That poor girl must have been living in hell. I don't have much sympathy for Oscar.

by Guest Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:54 am

oh look

quill the expert on life in SA,cant point to SA on a world atlas but knows exactly what life is like and what he would have done in that situation

so tell me quill when you do house clearance,do you go straight in or close it down??

whats your preferred method of house clearance oh expert on everything??

by Original Quill Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:09 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:oh look

quill the expert on life in SA,cant point to SA on a world atlas but knows exactly what life is like and what he would have done in that situation

so tell me quill when you do house clearance,do you go straight in or close it down??

whats your preferred method of house clearance oh expert on everything??

Ah, you are jealous smels. Why didn't you become an attorney? Was it perhaps you didn't get that far in school?

I don't want to belittle you, but you are obviously drunk. You are just like your brother Phil...in your cups early into the night, and ^^ this is what you get. The one thing we can look forward to is you won't be getting up early.

Cheers, lil man.

by Guest Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:00 pm

Original Quill wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:oh look

quill the expert on life in SA,cant point to SA on a world atlas but knows exactly what life is like and what he would have done in that situation

so tell me quill when you do house clearance,do you go straight in or close it down??

whats your preferred method of house clearance oh expert on everything??

Ah, you are jealous smels. Why didn't you become an attorney? Was it perhaps you didn't get that far in school?

I don't want to belittle you, but you are obviously drunk. You are just like your brother Phil...in your cups early into the night, and ^^ this is what you get. The one thing we can look forward to is you won't be getting up early.

Cheers, lil man.

i decided instead of attorney id rather do something useful and meaningful with my life quill, so i joined the armed forces where i get to kill Muslims and get sucked off when i come back home by fat ugly groupies

by Irn Bru Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:20 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Original Quill wrote:The panel of experts say he was perfectly lucid and knew what he was doing.

What is curious is the way this came up. Neither the prosecution nor the defense claimed insanity. But the defense was constantly raising the fact that Oscar was mentally upset, so the prosecution finally asked for the mental examination in order to settle the question.

Now the prosecution has an actual determination that Oscar was not mentally impaired in any way. This kind of claim usually comes up as a defense, but here it was raised by the prosecution. A kind of put up or shut up tactic.

Quill, is this a positive or a negative for Oscar?

Well, to the extent that it precludes the suggestion by the defense that Oscar was mentally impaired, this is a negative for him. He (or his team) had been getting away with the suggestion that, while not actually insane, he should receive sympathy because his physical impairments left him feeling 'vulnerable'. This finding returns the judge to the logical point of: no, he's not actually insane--which means he was in his right mind when he attacked and killed her. Law is supposed to assume a rational person...and that doesn't include shades of sympathy and mum's special understanding.

Of course, the actual theory of the prosecution is 'cold-blooded' murder. The prosecution is just returning the judge to the presumption of a rational person. Then, the prosecution argues that judged as a rational person, this was not fear or confusion, but a calculated, angry decision to murder Re'vea.

That poor girl must have been living in hell. I don't have much sympathy for Oscar.

I hadn't been following the trial that closely but I have read and heard enough to believe that he shot her in a fit of temper caused by an argument.

On the subject of the panel of experts that ruled him sane, do the defence have the right to challenge that and look into the background of each and everyone on it for past evidence that they (individually) may have made mistakes in the past and ask them to stand in the witness box for cross examination?

by Irn Bru Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:26 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:oh look

quill the expert on life in SA,cant point to SA on a world atlas but knows exactly what life is like and what he would have done in that situation

so tell me quill when you do house clearance,do you go straight in or close it down??

whats your preferred method of house clearance oh expert on everything??

Well you didn't need an atlas to find your way to the UK when you fled from South Africa.

Maybe you ain't so up to date on what has been happening there either.

by Original Quill Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:55 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Ah, you are jealous smels. Why didn't you become an attorney? Was it perhaps you didn't get that far in school?

I don't want to belittle you, but you are obviously drunk. You are just like your brother Phil...in your cups early into the night, and ^^ this is what you get. The one thing we can look forward to is you won't be getting up early.

Cheers, lil man.

i decided instead of attorney id rather do something useful and meaningful with my life quill, so i joined the armed forces where i get to kill Muslims and get sucked off when i come back home by fat ugly groupies

And now here you are talking about what attorneys do for a living. Well, we all make bad decisions.

How's the "killing" going. Maybe you can get a job with a termite exterminator.

by Original Quill Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:01 pm

Irn Bru wrote:On the subject of the panel of experts that ruled him sane, do the defence have the right to challenge that and look into the background of each and everyone on it for past evidence that they (individually) may have made mistakes in the past and ask them to stand in the witness box for cross examination?

The defense has the right of cross-examination, although perhaps not on credentials if the judge has passed on that issue. I don't know...just makes sense. But they seem to be past that stage as they are back to questioning percipient witnesses.

And of course, the whole thing is going up on appeal after the decision.

by Guest Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:30 pm

Original Quill wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

i decided instead of attorney id rather do something useful and meaningful with my life quill, so i joined the armed forces where i get to kill Muslims and get sucked off when i come back home by fat ugly groupies

And now here you are talking about what attorneys do for a living. Well, we all make bad decisions.

How's the "killing" going. Maybe you can get a job with a termite exterminator.

Killing ain't going so good have to admit,peacetime,budget cuts and a leftwing government has put a leash on us I'm afraid

But who knows?? In cheering for the caliphate, I'm sure I'll be back to killing Muslims soon enough that is of course if they show some fucking consideration and stop killing each other and leave some for the rest of us

As for Attorneys? Well they speculate at best

And the one with the story that fits the evidence the best wins

You see quill that's the problem with attorneys they never know for sure.

how many innocent men have you sent down to stoke your own ego?

If this forum and how obsessed you are with being "right" is any indication of how you do business

id say a lot

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:09 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

i decided instead of attorney id rather do something useful and meaningful with my life quill, so i joined the armed forces where i get to kill Muslims and get sucked off when i come back home by fat ugly groupies

And now here you are talking about what attorneys do for a living. Well, we all make bad decisions.

How's the "killing" going. Maybe you can get a job with a termite exterminator.

Killing ain't going so good have to admit,peacetime,budget cuts and a leftwing government has put a leash on us I'm afraid

But who knows?? In cheering for the caliphate, I'm sure I'll be back to killing Muslims soon enough that is of course if they show some fucking consideration and stop killing each other and leave some for the rest of us

As for Attorneys? Well they speculate at best

And the one with the story that fits the evidence the best wins

You see quill that's the problem with attorneys they never know for sure.

how many innocent men have you sent down to stoke your own ego?

If this forum and how obsessed you are with being "right" is any indication of how you do business

id say a lot

I don't think paintballs are that lethal ...

by Guest Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:17 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

Killing ain't going so good have to admit,peacetime,budget cuts and a leftwing government has put a leash on us I'm afraid

But who knows?? In cheering for the caliphate, I'm sure I'll be back to killing Muslims soon enough that is of course if they show some fucking consideration and stop killing each other and leave some for the rest of us

As for Attorneys? Well they speculate at best

And the one with the story that fits the evidence the best wins

You see quill that's the problem with attorneys they never know for sure.

how many innocent men have you sent down to stoke your own ego?

If this forum and how obsessed you are with being "right" is any indication of how you do business

id say a lot

I don't think paintballs are that lethal ...

You beat me to it! And obviously he's not so bit and brave that he would stay in his own country when whites were no longer in control, he had to come running to England to beg for help.

He's an immigrant, same as any other immigrant, just because his skin is white doesn't give him extra points.

by Guest Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:03 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

Killing ain't going so good have to admit,peacetime,budget cuts and a leftwing government has put a leash on us I'm afraid

But who knows?? In cheering for the caliphate, I'm sure I'll be back to killing Muslims soon enough that is of course if they show some fucking consideration and stop killing each other and leave some for the rest of us

As for Attorneys? Well they speculate at best

And the one with the story that fits the evidence the best wins

You see quill that's the problem with attorneys they never know for sure.

how many innocent men have you sent down to stoke your own ego?

If this forum and how obsessed you are with being "right" is any indication of how you do business

id say a lot

I don't think paintballs are that lethal ...

Where did Smelly mention paint balling?

by Guest Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:07 pm

Smelly's 'liked' video's on Youtube, and we know its him. It was also proved on ADO a long time ago and had a picture of him with a paintball gun.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=LLDVGHjypPdVz_ZsIAq6yEXA

http://p8ntballer-forums.com/members/smelly_bandit.20757/recent-content

by Original Quill Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:00 pm

Sassy wrote:Smelly's 'liked' video's on Youtube, and we know its him. It was also proved on ADO a long time ago and had a picture of him with a paintball gun.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=LLDVGHjypPdVz_ZsIAq6yEXA

http://p8ntballer-forums.com/members/smelly_bandit.20757/recent-content

The guy on YouTube, hawking the vest, is talking with an American accent. Doubtful that is smels.

by Guest Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:02 pm

Sassy wrote:Smelly's 'liked' video's on Youtube, and we know its him. It was also proved on ADO a long time ago and had a picture of him with a paintball gun.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=LLDVGHjypPdVz_ZsIAq6yEXA

http://p8ntballer-forums.com/members/smelly_bandit.20757/recent-content

How did you find Smellys you tube account?!

by Guest Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:05 pm

Google Smelly Bandit Paintball, we knew about it on ADO, it seems you have a very short memory.

by Guest Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:08 pm

Sassy wrote:Google Smelly Bandit Paintball, we knew about it on ADO, it seems you have a very short memory.

I remember it from ADO
BUT as Ben wasn't a member there I wondered how he knew!

Now let us see who could possibly have steered Ben in the direction of that....

Rolling Eyes

by Guest Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:11 pm

Nems wrote:
Sassy wrote:Google Smelly Bandit Paintball, we knew about it on ADO, it seems you have a very short memory.

I remember it from ADO
BUT as Ben wasn't a member there I wondered how he knew!

Now let us see who could possibly have steered Ben in the direction of that....

Actually, I was having an argument with Smelly on a thread months ago and put up the links, so nobody steered anyone anywhere, and I don't even know if Ben has read this thread after I put up the link on this thread. Your hatred has become so bad it must be affecting your mental health don't you think, which is rather sad. Do try and get back on an even keel, you'll feel so much better.

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