Iraq Crisis: 'Demonising The Muslim Community Over Isis Will Only Lead To Further Radicalisation,' Warns Counter-Terrorist Official

[Guest]

A counter-terrorist official has warned against "demonising the Muslim community" as it emerged the Security Service has made tracking British jihadists fighting in Syria its top priority.

Sir Peter Fahy, who leads on the Prevent counter-terrorism strategy for the Association of Chief Police Officers, said around 500 Britons had travelled to Syria and Iraq - a higher estimate than the 400 claimed by Foreign Secretary William Hague.

He said there is a huge amount of effort going on "both abroad and in this country trying to identify people who may have gone out there to track their movements and, particularly, to make sure that we detain them when they try and get back into this country."

Sir Peter acknowledged that "some of the estimates have been higher than that, we have to be honest and say we don't absolutely know" but "it is the top priority for the security services and for counter-terrorism police and police in general".

He said "huge amounts of material" was being taken down from the internet every week as part of the effort to stop people being radicalised.

The Greater Manchester Police Chief Constable warned against "demonising the Muslim community itself" and said: "The vast majority of Muslim people are really worried about this situation and are working with us to try and identify those people that may be at risk."


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/21/isis-sir-peter-fahy-Muslim-uk_n_5517465.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

[Tommy Monk]

Looks like Muslims are being portrayed as the victims again here, and 'at risk' of this mythical 'radicalisation' like it's some sort of contagious disease or infection......




And of course, no matter what the Muslims do, you must not criticise them in any way..... those poor delicate flowers that they are.....

[Guest]

Nobody is stopping you being critical of Muslims who are extremists, it is when you club all the other Muslims altogether with them, as seen as you do now.

The fact that it even states that such demonising of Muslims who are not extremists can lead to further radicalization, shows how clueless you really are.

[Guest]

Not all strangers are gonna drag my kids in to their car and try and bum them.

Maybe the English need to stop warning kids of such things.

No? Well said everybody - best be on the safe side eh!

[Vintage]

I don't see people demonising [u]all[u] Muslims mainly the radical ones, I do see people questioning why some Muslims appear to remain silent on so many issues,
which pertains to their community (which by the way shouldn't that be our community? - why are the various communities if you live in a country shouldn't everyone who lives there belong to your community?) Why should we treat someone with more sensitivity because of their political or religious beliefs, why are we afraid of being labelled rascist, bigots, zenophobes if we don't treat certain groups with sensitivities? If the police raid my house in the night (which by the way they have no reason to do so), as a modest woman I would like time to get dressed before anyone enters my bedroom as well - but this is only granted to certain groups - where's the equality in that. So no one is demonising a whole group but people are questioning the way certain groups are treated. Are we not allowed to question and put forward our doubts or fears?

[Guest]

I don't see people demonising [u]all[u] Muslims mainly the radical ones, I do see people questioning why some Muslims appear to remain silent on so many issues,
which pertains to their community (which by the way shouldn't that be our community? - why are the various communities if you live in a country shouldn't everyone who lives there belong to your community?) Why should we treat someone with more sensitivity because of their political or religious beliefs, why are we afraid of being labelled rascist, bigots, zenophobes if we don't treat certain groups with sensitivities? If the police raid my house in the night (which by the way they have no reason to do so), as a modest woman I would like time to get dressed before anyone enters my bedroom as well - but this is only granted to certain groups - where's the equality in that. So no one is demonising a whole group but people are questioning the way certain groups are treated. Are we not allowed to question and put forward our doubts or fears?

Nobody is demonizing them, sorry that is garbage, because people do constantly, like claiming because of extremist actions as if they are all going to be the same. How we only seem to see the faith of someone who commits a crime if they are a Muslim.
Why would even a Police head state such a thing if not people already do demonise Muslims because of things that happen around the world?
Sorry that shows you are trying to excuse those that poorly do, you have every right to your views and if they are poor ones that are base upon fallacies, then people will question the reasoning behind your views.

Also this absurd view that Muslims remain silent, when many speak openly condemning wrongs, even though why should they in the first place unless you think all Muslims are thus culpable for when other Muslims do wrong? That is like claiming all women should stand up and be vocal if a woman does wrong because of an association that they are female. It is a really absurd view point, what you are saying is you need reassuring off other Muslims, because you do view them all as culpable.

[nicko]

So speaks the Homosexual Moslim

[Guest]

So speaks the Homosexual Moslim

[nicko]

Come on didge ,you can do a lot better than that poor effort.

[Guest]

Come on didge ,you can do a lot better than that poor effort.

No need, you make a monkey out of yourself all the time pops, as seen contradicting yourself and spoiling debates of course, just as you are doing now.

Really must have rattled you yesterday, ha ha

[nicko]

Rattled me ,good lord you have a high opinion of your self, and why do keep mentioning my age? for example "pop" I know I am old ,as you will be some day, at least my past life has been exiting, and not your exciting "life" stuck on a computer all day!!!

[Guest]

Rattled me ,good lord you have a high opinion of your self, and why do keep mentioning my age? for example "pop" I know I am old ,as you will be some day, at least my past life has been exiting, and not your exciting "life" stuck on a computer all day!!!

I have had a great life thanks pops, so much so I have fun playing with you when you make a dick of yourself as you are doing now.

You have no idea what I have done with my life, I do not need to brag about it as you do, as if you need recognition with what you have done in life, that sounds like a you are in conflict over what you have done in life.

Hey ho, you should be proud of who you are and what you have done in life, we have to make decisions even faced with the worst possible scenarios, but if you reflect too much on your past, you will never be able to move on.

[nicko]

Didge, I just can't make you out, you would provide a life time study for a psychiatrist.

[Guest]

Didge, I just can't make you out, you would provide a life time study for a psychiatrist.

You are not meant to work me out, but is fun watching you try.

[nicko]

it's fun reading your replies,your in such a hurry to reply you post rubbish! im' having tea now so "laters"

[Guest]

it's fun reading your replies,your in such a hurry to reply you post rubbish!  im' having tea now so "laters"

Laters pops

[Guest]

A counter-terrorist official has warned against "demonising the Muslim community" as it emerged the Security Service has made tracking British jihadists fighting in Syria its top priority.

Sir Peter Fahy, who leads on the Prevent counter-terrorism strategy for the Association of Chief Police Officers, said around 500 Britons had travelled to Syria and Iraq - a higher estimate than the 400 claimed by Foreign Secretary William Hague.

He said there is a huge amount of effort going on "both abroad and in this country trying to identify people who may have gone out there to track their movements and, particularly, to make sure that we detain them when they try and get back into this country."

Sir Peter acknowledged that "some of the estimates have been higher than that, we have to be honest and say we don't absolutely know" but "it is the top priority for the security services and for counter-terrorism police and police in general".

He said "huge amounts of material" was being taken down from the internet every week as part of the effort to stop people being radicalised.

The Greater Manchester Police Chief Constable warned against "demonising the Muslim community itself" and said: "The vast majority of Muslim people are really worried about this situation and are working with us to try and identify those people that may be at risk."




http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/21/isis-sir-peter-fahy-Muslim-uk_n_5517465.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Why does this NOT fill me with that nice warm fluffy feeling of security.........

[Vintage]

So Didge if all the white supremisists all over the world decided to work together and try to establish a white only state would you still give the same answers.
These young men have been brought up in Islam, their home lives are Islamic their neighbour hoods are for the most part Islamic and now it appears the ethos of many of their schools is Islamic because there are 95% Muslim background when it should be a British ethos, they are steeped in Islam how can they for a start intergrate and secondly not be seduced by the fanatics telling them Islam is under threat or they need to come and fight for an Islamic state, the only connection most of them will have is Islam and that is coming before allegiance to their new homes and for the most part always will. Someone on here made a comparison with the International Brigade in the Spanish Civil war but there is no comparison those people were from 53 different countries some were Catholic most were not few had actual ethnic or otherwise connections with Spain, do you think these young jihadis would fight for a cause not connected to Islam if you do think again, many Muslims not all of course think of themselves as entirely seperate from the rest of the population they live with in the west - Islam will always come first, they cannot bring themselves to condem another Muslim except perhaps in extreme circumstances where they think they might be at risk.

[Guest]

So Didge if all the white supremisists all over the world decided to work together and try to establish a white only state would you still give the same answers.
These young men have been brought up in Islam, their home lives are Islamic their neighbour hoods are for the most part Islamic and now it appears the ethos of many of their schools is Islamic because there are 95% Muslim background when it should be a British ethos, they are steeped in Islam how can they for a start intergrate and secondly not be seduced by the fanatics telling them Islam is under threat or they need to come and fight for an Islamic state, the only connection most of them will have is Islam and that is coming before allegiance to their new homes and for the most part always will. Someone on here made a comparison with the International Brigade in the Spanish Civil war but there is no comparison those people were from 53 different countries some were Catholic most were not few had actual ethnic or otherwise connections with Spain, do you think these young jihadis would fight for a cause not connected to Islam if you do think again, many Muslims not all of course think of themselves as entirely seperate from the rest of the population they live with in the west - Islam will always come first, they cannot bring themselves to condem another Muslim except perhaps in extreme circumstances where they think they might be at risk.

Wow so I was 100% right in my views onto how you do view all Muslims then.

What is a British Ethos? Christianity? Well it cannot be that as the two faiths are very much the same in how people abuse the faiths with violence, centuries of this proves this, so what could you possibly mean by British ethos? Islam is not what is driving them to Syria and Iraq, if it was the vast majority of the 2.9 million Muslims would have left to join such a fight, what it is basically is what you do in forming fear. They are indoctrinated just as you are with views, clouding any rational thought processing. All practicing religions place their faith first, even you think otherwise then you do not understand religious beliefs, what you are thus claiming is because you view all Muslims as of Islam, and extremists are against us., then so must all Muslims be based upon a poor fallacy you believe this is what they are charged to do. The reality is many Muslims have fought for this country and actually given their lives and for causes not of their own or even connected to their religion, so why does any of them do that Flix, or does not not compute with your illogical hypothesis? 

So at least we now know the truth how you look and perceive Muslims, mainly in the main as a threat. Religious people rarely do condemn others who are of the same faith, in fact they generally try to defend them, especially when they have literal belief


You see this is why your view fails, you say to me about"all" white supremacists and if I would give the same answers, yes I would, because the vast majority of white people are not like that. If I took your illogical view point and perceived all whit people including myself must have ideological views of racism, it word be just as absurd as to what you are claiming now

[Guest]

Also I might add one last thing, why are so many Muslims and the Muslim communities helping identify Muslims at risk to the Police if as you claim they put their religion first?
That shows you are poorly misplaced in your beliefs, because how do you think terrorist attempts are foil? It is not just great intelligence work, but help from the Muslims themselves. If as you claim and they put their religion first why would thy even help?
You see because you put a broad view point of Islam itself, you think many Muslims will not be opposed to the extremists based off the fact they follow Islam also. Sorry but the vast majority of victims to Islamic extremism are Muslims themslves

[Ben Reilly]

Not all strangers are gonna drag my kids in to their car and try and bum them.

Maybe the English need to stop warning kids of such things.

No?  Well said everybody - best be on the safe side eh!

But the country doesn't teach your kids to treat everyone they don't know as a threat to national security -- just to be careful, as you should with anyone you don't know ...

[Ben Reilly]

You know, this is a thing that I imagine happens to anyone who has ever participated in anything of a partisan nature. You side with Group A, but you initially think your rival, Group B, has a few good ideas that you could side with.

Then you start hearing people from Group B constantly demonizing your Group, and your response is to react more defensively and to start disagreeing with everyone in Group B just to spite them.

The third section, on mass radicalization, explores mechanisms used to mobilize large groups of people who sympathize with and support a particular cause or grievance. Terrorists rely on this base of support for cover, information, funding, material support, and new recruits. The mechanisms for mass mobilization include:

10. Jujitsu politics, in which terrorists provoke a government into a disproportionate or badly aimed violent response;

11. Hatred, in which the enemy is demonized as less than human and the in-group is elevated, thus rationalizing violence; and

12. Martyrdom, which relies on the perception of selflessness for the cause and uses “sunk-costs” motivation, i.e., the martyr does not die in vain.

The attacks on 9/11 had been designed to provoke the United States into entering conflicts against Muslims, thereby mobilizing Muslims against the U.S. The U.S. in turn engaged in activities that further isolated American Muslims, in the form of profiling, surveillance, and psychological barriers of avoidance and hostility.

http://psychcentral.com/lib/friction-how-radicalization-happens-to-them-and-us/0007436

[Guest]

yup...so we should just ignore them and hope they go away???

or?????

[Ben Reilly]

yup...so we should just ignore them and hope they go away???

or?????

What does that mean; are you saying you don't want any Muslims in your country? Or that distinguishing people who do bad things from people who don't is just too much bother?

[Guest]

Not all strangers are gonna drag my kids in to their car and try and bum them.

Maybe the English need to stop warning kids of such things.

No?  Well said everybody - best be on the safe side eh!

But the country doesn't teach your kids to treat everyone they don't know as a threat to national security -- just to be careful, as you should with anyone you don't know ...

The country does teach our kids to treat every stranger as a threat to their personal security!

That is the only way you can interpret "don't talk to strangers"!

[Ben Reilly]

Not all strangers are gonna drag my kids in to their car and try and bum them.

Maybe the English need to stop warning kids of such things.

No?  Well said everybody - best be on the safe side eh!

But the country doesn't teach your kids to treat everyone they don't know as a threat to national security -- just to be careful, as you should with anyone you don't know ...

The country does teach our kids to treat every stranger as a threat to their personal security!

That is the only way you can interpret "don't talk to strangers"!

No it isn't, the lesson must be followed up with more mature teaching about how to deal with people you don't know when you're NOT a small child.

Honestly, you make your country sound like a ridiculous place populated by morons. I would not like to have you speaking for my country.

[Guest]

A counter-terrorist official has warned against "demonising the Muslim community" as it emerged the Security Service has made tracking British jihadists fighting in Syria its top priority.

Sir Peter Fahy, who leads on the Prevent counter-terrorism strategy for the Association of Chief Police Officers, said around 500 Britons had travelled to Syria and Iraq - a higher estimate than the 400 claimed by Foreign Secretary William Hague.

He said there is a huge amount of effort going on "both abroad and in this country trying to identify people who may have gone out there to track their movements and, particularly, to make sure that we detain them when they try and get back into this country."

Sir Peter acknowledged that "some of the estimates have been higher than that, we have to be honest and say we don't absolutely know" but "it is the top priority for the security services and for counter-terrorism police and police in general".

He said "huge amounts of material" was being taken down from the internet every week as part of the effort to stop people being radicalised.

The Greater Manchester Police Chief Constable warned against "demonising the Muslim community itself" and said: "The vast majority of Muslim people are really worried about this situation and are working with us to try and identify those people that may be at risk."




http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/21/isis-sir-peter-fahy-Muslim-uk_n_5517465.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Why does this NOT fill me with that nice warm fluffy feeling of security.........

With good reason. It's even worse; evidently police are saying about 200 have returned from Syria, but there's no way we could afford to monitor them all 24/7. Then someone on Sky piped up with "don't forget, it's not just the 'british' jihadists, there are hundreds of European ones and they could all turn up in the UK without any problems." But better not mention it eh, let's just sit back and do nothing, because nothing bad can possibly come from it...

[Guest]

yup...so we should just ignore them and hope they go away???

or?????

What does that mean; are you saying you don't want any Muslims in your country? Or that distinguishing people who do bad things from people who don't is just too much bother?

nope its a question...which I doubt the lefties can answer.....

what do we DO about the threat of radical actions...

IF we impose restrictions/searches/anything at all upon those whos "group" is cause for suspicion then we are wrong...

we are "wacist"

on the other hand the only alternative is to do nothing.....and wait for the big bang.....whereupon are we then supposed to shrug our shoulders and say........ ah well


wet letteuce lefties....

with plenty of "problems" and no idea of answers.....as usual.....

[Guest]

Why does this NOT fill me with that nice warm fluffy feeling of security.........

With good reason.  It's even worse; evidently police are saying about 200 have returned from Syria, but there's no way we could afford to monitor them all 24/7.  Then someone on Sky piped up with "don't forget, it's not just the 'british' jihadists, there are hundreds of European ones and they could all turn up in the UK without any problems." But better not mention it eh, let's just sit back and do nothing, because nothing bad can possibly come from it...

yep thats about it Tess.....wait for the bang....and then shrug your shoulders and be glad it was someone else.....the lefty methodology....

[Tommy Monk]

That's an interesting point victor.....



Will there be people moaning that Muslims are being unfairly profiled and targeted for checks when returning through airports etc?

[Ben Reilly]

My answer is to start training all the firefighters to find terrorists and shut down the fire department. Far more people die in house fires than in terrorist attacks and this will no doubt greatly increase the number of people who die in house fires, but hey -- at least there will be a smaller percentage of terrorist attacks that succeed, and that's obviously far more important ...

[Guest]

My answer is to start training all the firefighters to find terrorists and shut down the fire department. Far more people die in house fires than in terrorist attacks and this will no doubt greatly increase the number of people who die in house fires, but hey -- at least there will be a smaller percentage of terrorist attacks that succeed, and that's obviously far more important ...

True - best ignore them - what's a few dozen innocent women and children blown to bits anyway.... it's only a few after all. That should be the new Leftie National Anthem.

[Ben Reilly]

My answer is to start training all the firefighters to find terrorists and shut down the fire department. Far more people die in house fires than in terrorist attacks and this will no doubt greatly increase the number of people who die in house fires, but hey -- at least there will be a smaller percentage of terrorist attacks that succeed, and that's obviously far more important ...

True - best ignore them - what's a few dozen innocent women and children blown to bits anyway.... it's only a few after all.  That should be the new Leftie National Anthem.

Exactly, just like your nation does nothing currently to prevent terrorist attacks, that should continue.

[Tommy Monk]

Serious plots are foiled at about one a month here.


If It wasn't for our security services there would be a lot more atrocities already happened here.


Here's one of The latest ones that is possibly ready to happen....



And some more interesting reading....

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/terrorism-top-security-uk-prison-terror-3300455

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/Muslim-extremists-targeting-prisoners---3529537

[Ben Reilly]

My point precisely, Tommy, but apparently my Lefty National Anthem is now to include a line about ignoring terrorist threats, because what's a few dozen innocent women and children blown to bits (apparently the deaths of men don't matter ...)

[Guest]

My point precisely, Tommy, but apparently my Lefty National Anthem is now to include a line about ignoring terrorist threats, because what's a few dozen innocent women and children blown to bits (apparently the deaths of men don't matter ...)

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