UKIP wins first Scottish MEP seat

Some good news for the union?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27575204

scrat wrote:Some good news for the union?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27575204

...yes, I saw this last night on the news Scrat, just goes to show we have idiots up here too, who jump in with both feet regarding immigration, when in fact they probably have bothered to find out some of the austerity policies running deeper than anything the coalition have brought about.   

Clowns.

Joy Division wrote:

scrat wrote:Some good news for the union?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27575204

...yes, I saw this last night on the news Scrat, just goes to show we have idiots up here too, who jump in with both feet regarding immigration, when in fact they probably have bothered to find out some of the austerity policies running deeper than anything the coalition have brought about.   

Clowns.

Hi JD, I think a UKIP seat in Scotland shows us that Scotland is not so different to the rest of the UK, we've got more clowns than you, but at least they're the same clowns.

scrat wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


...yes, I saw this last night on the news Scrat, just goes to show we have idiots up here too, who jump in with both feet regarding immigration, when in fact they probably have bothered to find out some of the austerity policies running deeper than anything the coalition have brought about.   

Clowns.

Hi JD, I think a UKIP seat in Scotland shows us that Scotland is not so different to the rest of the UK, we've got more clowns than you, but at least they're the same clowns.

That sounds right Scrat, given the English population,,,but I've always said it...no country is without this sort of clowns...

Seeing as they all have so many issues with immigrants , then they should all get together and fcuk off to clown land !!  

Aw, I wonder if anyone of those die hard UKIP on here are going to tell us that solitary seat up here is the first of many to come !  

You do realise jd that your posts could be taken as Hate Speech!!! and didge don't like that.

People aren't against immigrants, they are against the amount of immigrants, and the open door to EU.


People also want if right to run their own country, the right to self determination, not be run by The EU dictatorship from Brussels.


We also don't want to be giving £55 million a day to EU.


This money would be better off spent directly here in this country.


We could also do without the enormous costs to businesses here with EU bureaucracy.

nicko wrote:You do realise jd that your posts could be taken as Hate Speech!!! and didge don't like that.

But how can racism be counted as hate speech Nicko?!!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:People aren't against immigrants, they are against the amount of immigrants, and the open door to EU.


People also want  if right to run their own country, the right to self determination, not be run by The EU dictatorship from Brussels.


We also don't want to be giving £55 million a day to EU.


This money would be better off spent directly here in this country.


We could also do without the enormous costs to businesses here with EU bureaucracy.

I'm against an open door policy too Tommy, most people are...


But if we were not in the EU, our government would be free to shaft people again with regards to doing away with the NMW as well as workers rights etc...

The EU gives us protection from exploitation.

Rubbish, workers will not lose any rights and minimum wage would remain.


And we can not stop open door EU immigration while we are in EU.


Free movement is non negotiable.

UKIP came fourth in Scotland and got one seat on the back of a proportional representation of 10% of the votes cast edging out the Greens. The SNP, Labour and the Tory votes all held up well but the LibDems collapsed and lost the seat they had to UKIP.
There is a world of difference in UKIPs performance between Scotland and England.

Irn Bru wrote:UKIP came fourth in Scotland and got one seat on the back of a proportional representation of 10% of the votes cast edging out the Greens. The SNP, Labour and the Tory votes all held up well but the LibDems collapsed and lost the seat they had to UKIP.
There is a world of difference in UKIPs performance between Scotland and England.

I don't think that all of those who voted UKIP in Scotland are English, there are many Scots who identify with being British, so it stands to reason that some Scots share the same views on immigration and Europe as some of the English, Alex Salmond is trying to sell Scotland to the Scottish as a different entity that has out grown it's big brother in the South, what appears to be inescapable is the fact that despite our differences, Britain is one big dysfunctional family.

scrat wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:UKIP came fourth in Scotland and got one seat on the back of a proportional representation of 10% of the votes cast edging out the Greens. The SNP, Labour and the Tory votes all held up well but the LibDems collapsed and lost the seat they had to UKIP.
There is a world of difference in UKIPs performance between Scotland and England.

I don't think that all of those who voted UKIP in Scotland are English, there are many Scots who identify with being British, so it stands to reason that some Scots share the same views on immigration and Europe as some of the English, Alex Salmond is trying to sell Scotland to the Scottish as a different entity that has out grown it's big brother in the South, what appears to be inescapable is the fact that despite our differences, Britain is one big dysfunctional family.

No I don't either and I would think that the English here in Scotland just did as most Scots did and voted for who they would normally vote for.

Alex Salmond is trying to sell Scotland to the electorate as a Country that has a completely different political agenda to much of the rest  of the UK and if he can tap in to the Scottish Labour vote and convince them that if they vote 'no' in the referendum that they may well get a Tory government then he may just pull it off.

That's about his only chance of winning this referendum.

Then sell them out straight to The EU without the protection of being part of UK......!!!!




Scotland is just as British as rest of UK.



United we stand, divided we fall.

Tommy Monk wrote:Then sell them out straight to The EU without the protection of being part of UK......!!!!




Scotland is just as British as rest of UK.



United we stand, divided we fall.

     LOLZ          

that is what I have been telling you for Europe       

The EU is not united UK.


European nations are united in their desire for right to self determination through their own individual parliaments and against EU federal dictatorship.

Tommy Monk wrote:The EU is not united UK.


European nations are united in their desire for right to self determination through their own individual parliaments and against EU federal dictatorship.

Yeah but if people had any brains they would concede the only way for Europe to maintain any real international power is to become UNITED.

Insisting on this make believe 'right to self determination through their own individual parliaments' is about as practical as an Aboriginal saying we want to live our traditional lifestyle before the world changed.  the world has changed the only option is to move forward and make the best of what is the here and now. what your asking for is no different than the typewriter sales man complaining about his lack of employment, the times have moved you can either adapt of be an unemployed typewriter salesman   

right to self determination through their own individual parliaments.... lolz you can tell you have lived in a nation that has got to boss other around others for most of the last century       like that is really a thing, a fair portion of our laws are instigated by the USA or China since they are the major powers we are vassal to. Despite all the pretty words only the most powerful nations 'really' have self determination and the UK is NOT one of them any more.

UK's Non-euro options are either go and start courting India and get them to take you as a vassal nation (understanding that they will always be slightly better off out of any deal you do, but they can still be profitable for both parties if you're smart) OR become a 3rd world nonentity with no power what so ever.

Don't be a bell end, it's not the British people who did the bossing around, it's the People who bossed us around now trying to still boss us around as well as trying to get to boss everyone else around too.


You claim to be a leftie, supporter of the workers, freedom, rights etc, but you are endorsing this new system of power and totalitarian control.


Hundreds of Millions of pounds of UK tax payers money still goes to India (and other well off nations) every year in 'international aid', but in reality it is funding business start ups and training for them to do stuff that we do, but cheaper, taking our jobs and making bigger profits for the companies behind it.


Are you seriously suggesting that UK can't have the right to self determination and democracy because we are not powerful enough any more...????



Freedom and democracy are not allowed for all?



Are you a supporter of dictatorship and authoritarian totalitarian fascist regimes?



Looks like we are seeing your true leftie colours showing now.......



Stalin and hitler are obviously heros of yours......

Tommy Monk wrote:Don't be a bell end, it's not the British people who did the bossing around, it's the People who bossed us around now trying to still boss us around as well as trying to get to boss everyone else around too.


You claim to be a leftie, supporter of the workers, freedom, rights etc, but you are endorsing this new system of power and totalitarian control.


Hundreds of Millions of pounds of UK tax payers money still goes to India (and other well off nations) every year in 'international aid', but in reality it is funding business start ups and training for them to do stuff that we do, but cheaper, taking our jobs and making bigger profits for the companies behind it.


Are you seriously suggesting that UK can't have the right to self determination and democracy because we are not powerful enough any more...????



Freedom and democracy are not allowed for all?



Are you a supporter of dictatorship and authoritarian totalitarian fascist regimes?



Looks like we are seeing your true leftie colours showing now.......



Stalin and hitler are obviously heros of yours......

spot on

Tommy Monk wrote:Don't be a bell end, it's not the British people who did the bossing around, it's the People who bossed us around now trying to still boss us around as well as trying to get to boss everyone else around too.


You claim to be a leftie, supporter of the workers, freedom, rights etc, but you are endorsing this new system of power and totalitarian control.


Hundreds of Millions of pounds of UK tax payers money still goes to India (and other well off nations) every year in 'international aid', but in reality it is funding business start ups and training for them to do stuff that we do, but cheaper, taking our jobs and making bigger profits for the companies behind it.


Are you seriously suggesting that UK can't have the right to self determination and democracy because we are not powerful enough any more...????



Freedom and democracy are not allowed for all?



Are you a supporter of dictatorship and authoritarian totalitarian fascist regimes?



Looks like we are seeing your true leftie colours showing now.......



Stalin and hitler are obviously heros of yours......

I'm weird, I have left wing Ideals but RW rationalism. I want doles and public health and education BUT understand that these things need to be paid for so having a strong economy is Important in order to afford these things.

Freedom and democracy for all         you read too many bumper stickers. I put to you, that has never been the case and will never be the case, there will always be powers, vassals and nonentities. within a nation it is something to strive towards but even then it is almost never actually true    Internationally it is pretty naive, but i guess that why Bush could get away with calling an illegal invasion 'operation freedom'         

and Yes I am Saying that about the UK! AUSTRALIA has never had the right to self determination, Not a TRUE and full unconditional right. We escaped UK rule ONLY because the USA could offer us protection instead allowing Australia to disobey the UK and keep a portion of our army in the pacific to fight the Japanese, in WW1 the UK was still in position to DEMAND troops from Australia and it got them and treated them like rubbish and got them killed at a greater number than any other nationality. YES your nation was bossing other countries around for the first half of the 1900's.

Welcome to the reality of a nation that is NOT listed in the most powerful      

And typical RW mentality from you: it is either black or white, it could not possibly one of the infinite shades of grey that exist in between.

So you are happy for The British people to be denied the freedoms and democracy you yourself would wish to have....???



Ok.

Tommy Monk wrote:So you are happy for The British people to be denied the freedoms and democracy you yourself would wish to have....???



Ok.

No, I'm quite happy with out it    you should be too   

they really are quite over rated, figments really, illusions to convince the masses their opinion actually matters   

I don't know, I don't believe freedom is 'real' but strength definitely is and the UK and the whole of Europe would be stronger United.... just like you pointed out about Scotland   

Tommy Monk wrote:So you are happy for The British people to be denied the freedoms and democracy you yourself would wish to have....???



Ok.

You might want to check the polls before you trumpet about an EU referendum. I looked earlier tonight, and though the Brits seemed to favor leaving up until this month, in May they seem to generally favor staying in the EU. Rather wishy-washy if you ask me, but there it is -- sometimes you have to realize something could actually happen until you come out with how you really feel about it.

Personally I think the right-whingers of every nation should get a little piece of land all to themselves that they can control and run into the ground -- not only will they either doom themselves or wise up, but it will also stop the endless bawling the rest of us have to endure. As we say in the States, it would be a win-win

By the way, I'm sure that if you were to ask nicely, the good people of the U.S. and Australia would be happy to teach the UK how to develop new residential areas, since it seems to be a skill the British have lost  ::D::

Ben_Reilly wrote:By the way, I'm sure that if you were to ask nicely, the good people of the U.S. and Australia would be happy to teach the UK how to develop new residential areas, since it seems to be a skill the British have lost  ::D::

I could not possibly comment on Australians as I've never been there, the ones that travel here and the ones I've met on my travels, seemed fine and decent folk.

America was a massive disappointment for me, I admit I've only travelled the East coast so perhaps soulless fat fucks are only in abundance in these areas, maybe the West coast is where decent, informed and mannered folk live.

The barbed wire security walled, watch towered and armed response residential complexes of America are not as popular on this side of the pond.

I guess it's a cultural thing, Americans cannot grasp the concept of culture so keeping reality out of sight and out of mind appears to be some kind of preoccupation.

So thanks,,,,but no thanks.

So veya is against freedom and democracy and Ben would like to see the tiny island that is the UK, build all over some of the best and most arable land in the world just so a load of foreigner, can live here on it.....




Also a united Britain is completely different argument to the EU federal dictatorship.


And is more important to be united to stand up together against this EU federal dictatorship that nobody wants, nobody voted for and nobody needs.


We are quite happy with our European neighbours, and quite happy to trade with them, cooperate with them, work together with them on other issues, but don't want to be ruled by them and don't want any of them to be ruled by the EU dictatorship either.

Tommy Monk wrote:So veya is against freedom and democracy and Ben would like to see the tiny island that is the UK, build all over some of the best and most arable land in the world just so a load of foreigner, can live here on it.....




Also a united Britain is completely different argument to the EU federal dictatorship.


And is more important to be united to stand up together against this EU federal dictatorship that nobody wants, nobody voted for and nobody needs.


We are quite happy with our European neighbours, and quite happy to trade with them, cooperate with them, work together with them on other issues, but don't want to be ruled by them and don't want any of them to be ruled by the EU dictatorship either.

that's cool    condemn your descendants to poverty   

AND I'm not against them, I just doubt they truly exist   

With our lib lab con cosy alliance, and all being puppets for the EU dictatorship, you are right that freedom and democracy are an illusion.



That is why people are not happy here with the situation and are demanding change!!!



And if you look at UK results, most people voted for partys who are promising EU referendum.



UKIP + Tory + some others...= well over 50% of vote.


And half of labour and lib dems want referendum too.




So why is this still being denied?????

Tommy Monk wrote:With our lib lab con cosy alliance, and all being puppets for the EU dictatorship, you are right that freedom and democracy are an illusion.



That is why people are not happy here with the situation and are demanding change!!!



And if you look at UK results, most people voted for partys who are promising EU referendum.



UKIP + Tory + some others...= well over 50% of vote.


And half of labour and lib dems want referendum too.




So why is this still being denied?????

Seems so Tommy, the are all against Scottish Independence ! ::troll:: 

Tommy Monk wrote:With our lib lab con cosy alliance, and all being puppets for the EU dictatorship, you are right that freedom and democracy are an illusion.



That is why people are not happy here with the situation and are demanding change!!!



And if you look at UK results, most people voted for partys who are promising EU referendum.



UKIP + Tory + some others...= well over 50% of vote.


And half of labour and lib dems want referendum too.




So why is this still being denied?????

But the like of you, BA, Tess and others always say...the majority should have the say...you say that when it comes to whites and blacks Tommy.

Scottish independence = complete take over by EU dictatorship.



You won't have more of a say over anything, but less.




As you will no longer be a large part of the best and most successful and powerful alliance in the world that we are collectively, being UK and Great Britain.


Together as we are geographically, and looking after our own collective national interests.



Instead you will be chipped away from the hugely strong, safe, secure and undeniably most successful partnership of people that has ever existed in the history of the world, and then instantly become a single tiny voice swallowed up and controlled by the EU federal dictatorship.


You cannot be pro independence and pro EU at the same time, these are complete opposites, just like sanity and insanity.



The SNP are just another pro EU stitch up party.

Tommy Monk wrote:Scottish independence = complete take over by EU dictatorship.



You won't have more of a say over anything, but less.




As you will no longer be a large part of the best and most successful and powerful alliance in the world that we are collectively, being UK and Great Britain.


Together as we are geographically, and looking after our own collective national interests.



Instead you will be chipped away from the hugely strong, safe, secure and undeniably most successful partnership of people that has ever existed in the history of the world, and then instantly become a single tiny voice swallowed up and controlled by the EU federal dictatorship.


You cannot be pro independence and pro EU at the same time, these are complete opposites, just like sanity and insanity.



The SNP are just another pro EU stitch up party.

that is hilarious ...  What Planet do you live on Tommy?

Why shouldn't the Scots disconnect from the English and Join a MUCH BIGGER and MORE POWERFUL Union.

And the United Kingdom is still no match for the UNITED STATES! or the former UNITED SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLIC                   
Funny it is really like you live in redcoat times when the UK mattered.

the EU would actually be more as powerful than the USA, separate your just a bunch on potential vassals and nonentities.

Well as they are already connected to us as being The UK, and we collectively have a bigger and stronger more powerful voice in EU. It would be madness for them to think that leaving UK and our collective powerful union, and then immediately joining EU as a single tiny state would somehow give them more power or independence, or more control over anything.......



It's like saying.... me And my good mates are being bullied by some bigger boys..... so what I'm going to do is sneak off from my mates and piss them off, and then try to take on all the bullies all by my self!!!!!

@TM

except that your mates are refusing to let you be Friends with the bullies and If you left your mates that are scared cowards then you find out the bigger 'bullies' are actually nice and more beneficial then your old 'friends'.

and of the Old 'Friends' try and Bully them again, like they have for centuries, they now have New bigger friends. In fact Historically France has been a Better and longer standing Ally to Scotland than England ever has been
http://www.electricscotland.com/france/alliance.htm

Treaty of Alliance between Philip the Fair, King of France, and John Baliol, King of Scotland, concluded at Paris, the 23rd of October 1295.

We have a Tory led coalition in government yet there was only 1 Tory MP elected in Scotland.

As pointed out in the House of Commons by an MP - there are more Panda's in Edinburgh zoo than there are Tory MPs in Scotland

Irn Bru wrote:

scrat wrote:
I don't think that all of those who voted UKIP in Scotland are English, there are many Scots who identify with being British, so it stands to reason that some Scots share the same views on immigration and Europe as some of the English, Alex Salmond is trying to sell Scotland to the Scottish as a different entity that has out grown it's big brother in the South, what appears to be inescapable is the fact that despite our differences, Britain is one big dysfunctional family.

No I don't either and I would think that the English here in Scotland just did as most Scots did and voted for who they would normally vote for.

Alex Salmond is trying to sell Scotland to the electorate as a Country that has a completely different political agenda to much of the rest  of the UK and if he can tap in to the Scottish Labour vote and convince them that if they vote 'no' in the referendum that they may well get a Tory government then he may just pull it off.

That's about his only chance of winning this referendum.

The results of the EU election show that more countries are voting for independence from the superstate; I expect it's the same with a lot of Scots. I really hope they vote for independence from the UK; if I were a Scot I would.

You talk absolute rubbish veya.


We are talking about the EU bully.


They want complete power and control.


Bending over for them just means you get shafted quicker and more often.

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:
Don't be a bell end, it's not the British people who did the bossing around............

You claim to be a leftie, supporter of the workers, freedom, rights etc, but you are endorsing this new system of power and totalitarian control.

Hundreds of Millions of pounds of UK tax payers money still goes to India (and other well off nations) every year in 'international aid'......

Are you seriously suggesting that UK can't have the right to self determination and democracy because we are not powerful enough any more...????

Freedom and democracy are not allowed for all?

Are you a supporter of dictatorship and authoritarian totalitarian fascist regimes?

Looks like we are seeing your true leftie colours showing now.......

Stalin and hitler are obviously heros of yours......

spot on

  

TWO of this forum's biggest loony Righteous Whingeing braindead fascists prove yet again just why they are nothing more than lonely old nutters dribbling out of both sides of their mouths...   

Tommy Monk wrote:You talk absolute rubbish veya.


We are talking about the EU bully.


They want complete power and control.


Bending over for them just means you get shafted quicker and more often.

yeah pretty much the exact way you'd any nation that was under England would describe it   
Scotland will be no worse off  ::D:: ::D:: ::D:: ::D:: 

Everyone is worse off under the fascist dictatorshp that is The EU.


And any politician that appears to promise freedom and independence and democratic self rule while secretly planning to then give all that away by signing straight up to the EU is quite simply a liar and a traitor to their people.


This is The plan of the SNP.

@TM
Even the Romanians?

When was it that our national govt stopped being responsible for our own national interests, and instead started working for the interests of Romania or any other country.....???


And Romania no longer have independence or self rule.



While they think they have something to gain, which they do, they are all in favour of taking it, you can't blame people for wanting to improve their lot.



They might be winners, in the short term, and only happy with the situation while being The winners, while their are many more unhappy losers....



And I'm sure they would be quick to voice their opinion if they were getting shafted.



Which they will realise they are too, as this short term gain equals long term pain when they realise that they sold out their newly found freedoms and democracy for a few quid, and they are ruled by another dictatorship being The EU....




They want in.... fair enough for them to choose..... we want out.... why are we still denied this option.....???



Cos let's remember... we never voted IN in the first place.....!!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:When was it that our national govt stopped being responsible for our own national interests, and instead started working for the interests of Romania or any other country.....???


And Romania no longer have independence or self rule.



While they think they have something to gain, which they do, they are all in favour of taking it, you can't blame people for wanting to improve their lot.



They might be winners, in the short term, and only happy with the situation while being The winners, while their are many more unhappy losers....



And I'm sure they would be quick to voice their opinion if they were getting shafted.



Which they will realise they are too, as this short term gain equals long term pain when they realise that they sold out their newly found freedoms and democracy for a few quid, and they are ruled by another dictatorship being The EU....




They want in.... fair enough for them to choose..... we want out.... why are we still denied this option.....???



Cos let's remember... we never voted IN in the first place.....!!!!

you're sounding awfully Left wing Tommy     surely the profits of big business make it worth it.       


anyway I think you view is short sided, England is going to suffer for a least a decade what ever it does because it has no competitive industries.
And England NOT being a nation and just being a State of the EU would be more powerful and will give you more say long term. because separately you will just become a vassal to one of the stronger emerging nations.

Bullshit, our industry and jobs have been increasingly closed down and shipped abroad to EU and other nations, cadbury to name one, while immigrants have increasingly taken jobs here that would have gone to our own youth who have become increasingly unemployed..... check the figures if you doubt this.....



Poland unemployment halved since 2004 while our youth unemployment has doubled.....



How can you say we are stronger by giving away our rights and powers to the EU dictatorship????



If anything, we have increasingly become a vassal of the EU instead of the strong independent sovereign nation that we easily were.


Increasingly sold out by our treacherous politicians.



The lefties have been destroying our country and our national interests, how am I left wing for standing against this....???




Labour famously said 'British jobs for British workers' while orchestrating the exact opposite.



That is The left wing treachery in full display.

I meant The EU will be stronger, than the UK is now.

and You will have more choice because as part of the EU the UK is still a fair power, leave it 10 years and you might just find China (for example) owns most of your nation and you wont have a choice at all. You can vote for whatever all you like..... but they run the businesses, control the jobs and the money.    Like I said I doubt freedom and democracy are any more than Buzz words which the Powers that be use to control the masses. Money is still King   

Now you are backing another dictatorship..... China....



What have you got against freedom and democracy?



Why is it you lefties back others in their quest for this and The right to self rule, governance etc, but you hate British people so much that we are actively denied this same thing....????

Tommy, do you not see that a major function of the EU is and has always been moving cheap labor to richer countries to make the rich even richer?

We have the same thing in Texas (and all throughout the U.S. Southwest) -- some people piss and moan about the illegal immigrants (y'all went ahead and made them all legal, something not even GWB could manage) but at the same time, if we were to deport all the illegals from Texas, it would plunge the Texas economy into recession -- http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2013/12/report-immigration-helps-boost-the-texas-economy.html

Free migration is good for business owners and bad for workers. That is why you have it.

That is one of the reasons why we don't want it.

Tommy Monk wrote:That is one of the reasons why we don't want it.

It seems, though, that your side puts the blame all on the back of the poor Polish or Romanian person trying to earn a bit more cash, rather than where it belongs. I could never fault a person for trying to get their head above water.

I/we don't blame people for trying to better themselves.


That is human nature.



Fact is, other countries were doing ok anyway by themselves, they already had fairly good standards of living, houses, cars etc.



Their earning a bit more cash means they go back living like kings while our youth are increasingly unemployed and our own wages stagnate, while at the same time our costs of living rises.


Then add on the extra pressure on infrastructure and services, schools, roads, NHS etc.



If you had open door to Mexico, there would be similar flood of cheap labour And your own people would be Fucked just the same.